Questions about the natal moon and mercury

YonyGursho

Well-known member
This is fascinating. My moon opposes my Mercury. That Ph. D. I got in 1977 must have been a fluke. What "mental disease" would you think I have?

Not necessarily, you can still earn a PH. D. if you have a mental disease, it just can't be one of the most severe ones, those just make it impossible to think rationally and logically, so much so that speech is almost impossible for those who have it, a less severe mental disease is what you must have had if you even had a mental disease when you got the PH. D.

Still, you don't necessarily have to have a mental disease if your moon is opposite your mercury, it can just be that certain outside factors cause your emotions to be at odds with your mind/thinking. So you may not have even had a mental disease when you earned your PH. D.

Remember, every natal configuration a chart holder has always stands true to themselves, no matter how their life changes.
 

YonyGursho

Well-known member
Given Yony's response to my posts, I'm inclined to agree with you!

In modern natal astrology combustion is not such an issue, the way it is in traditional western and in horary astrology. Rather, because the sun gives one's identity or sense of self, I would say that the Mercury conjunct sun person identifies (sun) with his intelligence (Mercury.)

Of course, this can be for better or worse.

Yony, I understood perfectly what you said. It was pretty simple. I just truly disagree with it. I think you're badly mistaken, both about astrology and human nature.

You seem to be very uncomfortable with the realm of human emotions. I read what you wrote but still wonder why. Is your moon afflicted? My daughter has a Pisces moon and she is extremely creative and perceptive.

My son's moon is in Scorpio. He played football and rugby in highschool and A-level rugby at his university; when he also worked as a night club bouncer. This is Mars-Pluto for you, not some kind of watery crybaby.

Your disowning your moon will affect your ability to read "watery" charts for people who don't happen to share your horror of our feeling natures.

The threat of being called a "crybaby" really offends you in some profound way. You've mentioned it a lot. The idea of the Mother as a wise and caring authority figure doesn't sit well with you. The idea of Cancer as a nurturing presence doesn't appeal to you. I wonder why.

Did you grow up in a highly patriarchal society or family? It sure looks like it. No need to perpetrate this type of gender-bias in your astrological awareness, however.

You don't mention that water also is the element of spirituality. (Possibly in relation to Jupiter's traditional rulership of Pisces.)

The moon traditionally rules liquids but your "energy drink" analogy has nothing to do with the essential meaning of water in the horoscope.

You might think about ways to productively express your feeling nature-- such as through the arts. People with the moon in Pisces are often good dancers, even with no formal lessons. Pisces rules the feet, and they can just feel the music.

I'd be curious to learn what you think about Stephen Arroyo's book on Astrology, Psychology, and the Four elements. He basically brought the ancient Aristotelian elements to modern psychological astrology in the 1970s. Or what about Dorian Greenbaum's book, Temperament: Astrology's Forgotten Key, which is a traditional astrologers' look at the 4 elements?

Being belligerent doesn't substantiate your points.

My moon is indeed afflicted. It squares my midheaven, conjuncts my ASC, is opposite my ceres, semi-square my uranus, sesqui-quadrate my Pallas, there is only one other aspect it has and its a good one, sextile my neptune.

Your daughter must have a mostly unnafflicted moon, or a completely unafflicted moon then. Same thing with your son.

I grew up in a normal family. I simply have always been very sensitive naturally, and wasn't able to toughen up my emotional strength until my late teen years.

I would argue that water isn't the element of spirituality but fire is, seeing as spritiuality = religion, and religion is formed by freedom of thought, thats what fire is. Air is order of thought (logic). Earth is structure and practicality, water is imagination and impracticality. Earth is organization and tideyness, Water is messiness and abstractness.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Yony, is your objective to make up astrology as you go along, or are you interested in learning what has been written about it by practicing astrologers with far more experience than you have? (Like for the last 2000 years, or at least, for the past 60.) Your own lens and life experience have merit, but you cannot substitute them for the established body of knowledge out there.

You cannot just make up the meaning of the elements as you go along, unless you plan to practice some kind of astrology that is so idiosyncratic that you have a "school" of one.

You might read Stephen Arroyo's book on the 4 elements. I think it's still in print. Basically he talks about what seems very real to people with an emphasis on each of the elements.

Air: ideas are very real
Water: feelings are very real
Fire: Action, enthusiasm
Earth: material things

Traditional astrology identified 4 personality types: sanguine (air,) choleric (fire,) melancholic (earth,) and phlegmatic (water.)

When you combine the elements in this way with the signs' modalities (cardinal, fixed, mutable) then the signs begin to make a lot more sense. For example, Pisces is the mutable water sign, meaning that it operates primarily through feelings and is very adaptable or flexible. Taurus is the fixed earth sign, hence its reputation for being stubborn (fixed) and oriented towards material things.

You wrote:

I have a pisces moon, and the neptunian energy of it has always made me so incredibly sensitive to the point where it's not even funny, I have always struggled in conversations and almost my entire life haven't had the ability to control my emotions well enough to hold a decent conversation with anyone other than my closest acquaintances. Only after years of having it am I now able to control it well enough to talk to strangers.

....

To make matters worse, I'm a BOY, AND I am and always have been straight, so being so naturally emotionally weak growing up was, as you can imagine, hell.

If your early life experience consisted of being so sensitive that you feared meeting strangers, and got viciously taunted for being a "crybaby," you have my sympathy. At the same time, these are not typical experiences of watery moons, so you cannot generalize from your personal experience to roughly 1/4 of the world's population with water moon signs.

Do you want to post your chart?

What astrology books or sites are you reading?

I do use asteroids-- judiciously. There are thousands of them out there, and by the time you're using them with minor aspects they tend to turn into so much space junk. Normally I stick with the conjunction to an actual planet. (There are some exceptions like namesake asteroids in synastry.)

What do you mean by "mental disease"? You seem to have some archaic ideas about mental health.

My daughter's Pisces moon opposes her Virgo sun and Mercury. So technically it's afflicted. She's 34. I think it's fair to call her sensitive, but she doesn't have a "mental disease."
 

YonyGursho

Well-known member
Yony, is your objective to make up astrology as you go along, or are you interested in learning what has been written about it by practicing astrologers with far more experience than you have? (Like for the last 2000 years, or at least, for the past 60.) Your own lens and life experience have merit, but you cannot substitute them for the established body of knowledge out there.

You cannot just make up the meaning of the elements as you go along, unless you plan to practice some kind of astrology that is so idiosyncratic that you have a "school" of one.

You might read Stephen Arroyo's book on the 4 elements. I think it's still in print. Basically he talks about what seems very real to people with an emphasis on each of the elements.

Air: ideas are very real
Water: feelings are very real
Fire: Action, enthusiasm
Earth: material things

Traditional astrology identified 4 personality types: sanguine (air,) choleric (fire,) melancholic (earth,) and phlegmatic (water.)

When you combine the elements in this way with the signs' modalities (cardinal, fixed, mutable) then the signs begin to make a lot more sense. For example, Pisces is the mutable water sign, meaning that it operates primarily through feelings and is very adaptable or flexible. Taurus is the fixed earth sign, hence its reputation for being stubborn (fixed) and oriented towards material things.

You wrote:



If your early life experience consisted of being so sensitive that you feared meeting strangers, and got viciously taunted for being a "crybaby," you have my sympathy. At the same time, these are not typical experiences of watery moons, so you cannot generalize from your personal experience to roughly 1/4 of the world's population with water moon signs.

Do you want to post your chart?

What astrology books or sites are you reading?

I do use asteroids-- judiciously. There are thousands of them out there, and by the time you're using them with minor aspects they tend to turn into so much space junk. Normally I stick with the conjunction to an actual planet. (There are some exceptions like namesake asteroids in synastry.)

What do you mean by "mental disease"? You seem to have some archaic ideas about mental health.

My daughter's Pisces moon opposes her Virgo sun and Mercury. So technically it's afflicted. She's 34. I think it's fair to call her sensitive, but she doesn't have a "mental disease."

- "Air: ideas are very real
Water: feelings are very real
Fire: Action, enthusiasm
Earth: material things"

I agree, but how does this prove that fire isn't religion? Jupiter is the planet of religion after all, and jupiter is a fire planet.

Again, for the second time I'll say it: these are not typical experiences of water moons because they have mostly positive aspected moons or completely positive aspected moons. I have a very rare water moon, one with only one positive aspect, the rest are negative aspects. So I have no idea what you're talking about or why it's so hard to understand what I'm saying, when it's actually very simple.

I'll post my chart in my next comment.

I've already explained what I meant about mental diseases very simply, not sure what it is that's confusing.
 
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YonyGursho

Well-known member
Here you go
 

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Flapjacks

Well-known member
I think you could pick up a child's head injury by looking at transits and progressions for a young child. This process would turn a simple natal chart reading into a far more involved process, however, if you looked at transits and progressions over a lifetime, even for a young person.

Also, while you might pick up a "blow to the head" for someone at, say, age 3; in a blind chart reading (vs. a post-hoc reading for a known person) you might have difficulty in saying how it affected the person.

Sometimes the difficulties in a chart reading are not in tracking planetary movements, but are in correctly intuiting how they affected the individual.

Medical astrology is not an exact science. I was just looking at a medical horary on another forum, and the querent indicated a lifetime of trouble with her current condition. Yet the indicators seemed to suggest that it was temporary. Possibly the chart timing was off, which is something else to consider in making highly fatalistic readings of what might be erroneous data.

The configuration of the natal chart demonstrates the effects of the transits/progressions, and in that way, the natal would still also describe the types of events that might be experienced, however they manifest.

Perhaps a conflict between Moon and Mercury shows up as a childhood head injury that results in a dissociative illness, only later to be successfully treated, where the conflict will show up again as a estrangement between parents/children, etc. Like you said, there lies the real difficulty of interpretation.

In terms of potential, being a creative genius or what have you could be just as likely as the head injury according to the natal. :unsure:
 
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