Chinese ascendants

Do you take chinese rising signs into consideration?

  • Yes, I know a lot about them and can provide many examples.

    Votes: 1 5.6%

  • Yes, I don't consider them much but this aspect is still quite important to me.

    Votes: 2 11.1%

  • Yes, but I don't make them a priority when analysing people's charts.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I've heard of them but I don't usually take them into account.

    Votes: 2 11.1%

  • No, I've never heard of them at all.

    Votes: 13 72.2%
  • Total voters
    18
V

vox

Well-known member
Chinese ascendants are an important factor when considering celebrities' external appearences, demeanor and comportment...

For example, typical OX facial characteristics would be like the following:

images
images


In fact, they can also be more significant than western ascendants in that
- they aren't influenced or shrouded by the effect of neighboring aspects or planets that would come to influence traditional wester ascendants
- all rising signs are as frequent as each other; this is obviously not the case with western ascendants, as some (namely in Europe) are considerably more frequent than others - Leo to Scorpio.


... Nonetheless, I was wondering how importantly this often neglected important aspect is taken into account by astrologers...
please answer the poll
 
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byjove

byjove

Account Closed
Really? The books that I had on this said use local time irrespective of global location...

Horse ascendent
 
V

vox

Well-known member
Which books?

And what if the time zone is slightly offline with one's birth location?

Write down your birth details and I'll give you your real ascendant.
 
A

Alice McDermott

Well-known member
You need to use true local time or sundial time, not the time zone, which is a derived time for convenience in any location.

For example, my normal time zone is -9.30 but the actual true local time is 9.14.20 - over a quarter of an hour's difference so if a person is born at the change over of the hour pillar this can make a big difference.

Alice

The Imperial Astrologer is a Chinese astrology program made for Western people so is very easy to understand. This easily calculates the Four Pillars using true local time.
 
V

vox

Well-known member
This is an interesting topic,

but, where exactly is it claimed that the rising sign depends on local sundial time as opposed to Universal time?

vox
 
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A

Alice McDermott

Well-known member
When chinese astrology evolved there was no such thing as time zones, all time was taken from the position of the Sun at any given time of day and this was determined by Sundials.

If you calculate the pillars from Universal time you must make sure you are using the actual location time rather than the clock time used in any location.

The true location time is worked out from the longitude for example, my city is at 138E36 so to determine the true longitude time you multiply by 4 and divide by 60 to turn degrees into time. This results in a time of 9 hours 14 minutes 24 seconds ahead of GMT. Sundial time would be the same.

Alice
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
vox said:
This is an interesting topic, but, where exactly is it claimed that the rising sign depends on local sundial time as opposed to Universal time?
vox
Click to expand...
Alice McDermott said:
When chinese astrology evolved there was no such thing as time zones, all time was taken from the position of the Sun at any given time of day and this was determined by Sundials.

If you calculate the pillars from Universal time you must make sure you are using the actual location time rather than the clock time used in any location.

The true location time is worked out from the longitude for example, my city is at 138E36 so to determine the true longitude time you multiply by 4 and divide by 60 to turn degrees into time. This results in a time of 9 hours 14 minutes 24 seconds ahead of GMT. Sundial time would be the same.
Alice
Click to expand...


Useful link to Table of "The Equation of Time" http://www.wsanford.com/~wsanford/exo/sundials/equation_of_time.html
 
T

Tarastar

New member
I realise i had heard of the Asc -the 4 pillars??
mine i guess as a Tiger - Coming down the Mountain is :
{Monkey (Shenshi): 15:00 to 16:59. This is the time when Monkeys are lively.}
AND i took this from Wikipedia.
My local time of birth was 16.25 in Hong Kong, and there was Summer time, so it makes time difference but as said below, it makes sense that it is SUNDIAL time, as that is how the original readings were taken. However my maths is not what it used to be, so i need help if getting more complex :)
 
V

vox

Well-known member
Alice McDermott said:
When chinese astrology evolved there was no such thing as time zones, all time was taken from the position of the Sun at any given time of day and this was determined by Sundials.

If you calculate the pillars from Universal time you must make sure you are using the actual location time rather than the clock time used in any location.

The true location time is worked out from the longitude for example, my city is at 138E36 so to determine the true longitude time you multiply by 4 and divide by 60 to turn degrees into time. This results in a time of 9 hours 14 minutes 24 seconds ahead of GMT. Sundial time would be the same.

Alice
Click to expand...


Sorry, that's not quite what I meant.

To elicit clearer:
The rising hours would be universal, not local, in the sense that they would happen at the same time, anywhere on the planet (although local time would differ), not in the sense that ascendants fall during the same local hours on the planet.

So, if you like, the Rooster ascendant would start and end at the same time anywhere on the planet, be it 10am GMT (DST), 5am Eastern time, 6pm Beijing time... for 2 hours long

I've tested many celebrities from these hours, which seems to give quite convincing results.


I find this approach somewhat more plausible and original than according to local sundial time (which would involve more complicated mechanisms, accounting for the fact that sundial hours vary according to length of day etc) although I'd like to hear your thoughts on this field of concern.

vox
 
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A

Alice McDermott

Well-known member
I'm not sure that I understand what you mean.

for example, in my city it is 10.15 am on Sunday, 13th January but in Los Angeles it is 7.47 pm on Saturday 12th January - are you saying that the same hour pillar is operative for both cities?

Alice
 
V

vox

Well-known member
At this moment, every newborn on the planet is born under the same ascendant: the Monkey hour; which will change at 9am GMT.

vox
 
A

appleberry

Well-known member
Interesting, but confusing. I remember from an astrology interpretation online that I was born during the DOG hours... So I hope that was right.

So, I look like a dog :)
Hmmm....

Are there any descriptions anywhere online so I can judge?
 
A

Alice McDermott

Well-known member
vox said:
At this moment, every newborn on the planet is born under the same ascendant: the Monkey hour; which will change at 9am GMT.

vox
Click to expand...

Why GMT? This is just an convenient time line decided in approximately 1876. Previous to that most countries in the world worked with Sundial time.

The hour pillars are decided by even two hour blocks but aligned to the 24 hour day; i.e. the Monkey hour is always between 3-5 pm wherever in the world the person resides. Why do you think it changes at 9.OO am GMT? 7.00 - 9.00 am is the hour of the Dragon and 9.00 am- 11.00 am is the hour of the Snake.

These two hour blocks are based on the rotation of the Earth and echo the longer cycles of the year, i.e. the hour of the Tiger, between 3-5 am (pre sunrise) echoes the Month of the Tiger in winter in the Northern Hemisphere. The hour of the Rabbit, between 5-7 am (sunrise) echoes the month of the Rabbit which occurs in Spring in the Northern Hemisphere. The hour of the Monkey between 3-5 pm during the bright time of the day echoes the Month of the Monkey in high summer in the Northern hemisphere ... and so on.

Alice
 
Andrea_

Andrea_

Well-known member
Ok, so I'm a Wood Boar, I was born at the Dragon hour without converting the time...

Dragon (Chenshi): 07:00 to 08:59. This is the time when Dragons are hovering in the sky to give rain.


But if I convert it to the Chinese hour... my country is +2 GMT, China is +8, which means I have to add +4.... = 14:45 meaning now:
Goat (Weishi): 13:00 to 14:59. This is the time when Goats eat grass and urinate frequently.

=))

So yeah...I wonder what's better, Pig with Dragon asc or Pig with Goat asc? :d I kind of feel that the Goat thing suits me better...

I found a site that gives a short, but nice personality report with your Chinese Year/Ascendant combined: click
 
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V

vox

Well-known member
I have a question regarding the 4 pillars:

The hours tend to vary according to the longditude which one was born on, but on some, they obviously fall evenly (eg. 14:00 to 16:00 and not 13:54 - 15:54 or 14:02 - 16:02...). This is the case of London.

Is it a coincidence that the only longditudes these hours will fall evenly correspond for example to the exact longditude of the city of London (or the middle point of any other conventional time zone)?

thanks
 
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