Is it true traditional astrologers exclude modern planets?
- Thread starter Michael
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david starling
Well-known member
Some Trads actually believe they're living in the Past, while some Mods actually believe themselves to be living in the Future. 
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In order to really understand this, it takes some kind of mystical experience. That will put you into this larger context Cap is pointing to. Unfortunately, the intellect can't go there. It has to be left behind.
What this thread is actually about is our core beliefs, how we see the world, our basic ontology. Those beliefs determine how we approach astrology. That's why these discussions get so heated.Oddity,
I have great respect for you and your attitude towards astrology and it's practitioners.
Until very very recently, I have not had any issues with traditional astrologers. I have tried to learn as much as I could because it has fascinated me. Robert Hand was my favorite astrologer back in the day, and I watched him make that transition and it intrigued me.
The only reason I posted that kind of snarky question is that , quite recently, there have been a few members here being very rude and condescending towards modern astro. Calling it improper, unsubstantial, vague, etc etc. I do take it to heart and it bothers me that they think they are so superior when it is not that cut and dry.
I would rather we co-exist amicably, but I don't see how that can happen as long as modern astro is being called out unfairly and criticized so harshly.
I am sorry Oddity, to offend you because it is not what I meant to do. You have always been very respectful and I appreciate that...
david starling
Well-known member
The intellect thinks it's in the lead, directing the whole parade of experience. But, it's really bringing up the rear.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Some Trads actually believe they're living in the Past,
while some Mods actually believe themselves to be living in the Future.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Exactly
clearly participators on this thread
responded to your question reasonably
i.e.
Quite
I refer to you to answers already provided
and remind you
that
Modernist astrologers ignore objects in the Kuiper Belt
that are larger than planetoid pluto
david starling
Well-known member
The small tip of the iceberg, that can be seen, is the signal that the invisible part, which can sink a ship, is looming below. Meaning, the visible is important, but not to the extent of making the invisible, inconsequential.
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Computer technology mimics the nervous system (hardware) and intellect (software).
Sometimes, I do draw them by hand. It makes you understand the chart a lot betterer. I highly recommend it with charts that really matter.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Nevertheless
Modernist astrologers continue to ignore
object in the Kuiper Belt
that is larger than planetoid pluto
I don't think traditional astrology itself is the issue here. It's fine as it is. And it can be as psychological or transpersonal as modern astrology. The issue is more about the mindset with which some neo-trads approach traditional astrology, which doesn't allow for much leg room.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
david starling
Well-known member
The MOVEMENT to RESTORE many of the Traditional techniques and attitudes that are not being used by most Western, present-day Astrologers is relatively new. Much research and translation was necessary in this worthwhile effort. It wasn't "handed down" to the Modern era, because orthodox Tradition was driven into near extinction for nearly 3 hundred years, before a group of Modern Astrologers began restoring it in the late 20th Century. By now, I think enough research has been done to merit the term "Traditionalists" without requiring a prefix to qualify it.
david starling
Well-known member
Cyril Fagan was an earlier "Restorationist" for a Western version of Sidereal Astrology, and was steeped in research into Ancient Babylonian Astrology.
Since Tropicalism, whether Traditional or Modern, has been called into question because of Precession of the Equinox, I'll make two comments about that: First, Siderealism uses A star, not the unequal-length constellations, to locate its equal-length Signs. For example, Fagan used Spica for that purpose. Others use Aldebaran. Now, since our Sun is a star as well, I see nothing amiss with using our close star, the Sun, for that purpose; and, the relationship of Earth's axial tilt relative to the Earth-Sun orbital plane that is the plane of the Zodiac itself, seems like a perfectly acceptable way to set the Sign boundaries. Second, around 2300 B.C.E., when the Babylonian Constellational imagery was first recorded, there was a seasonal correspondence to the imagery, using Heliacal reckoning. Which means, Tropicalism, with Signs corresponding to the Seasons, is entitled to use those as well.
The only question then, is whether Northern hemispheric, seasonally-based imagery, both original-Babylonian and Greco-Roman (with imagery adapted from the Babylonian), is appropriate for use in the Southern Hemisphere, where the Seasons are in reverse order. Dirius seems to think so.
Since Tropicalism, whether Traditional or Modern, has been called into question because of Precession of the Equinox, I'll make two comments about that: First, Siderealism uses A star, not the unequal-length constellations, to locate its equal-length Signs. For example, Fagan used Spica for that purpose. Others use Aldebaran. Now, since our Sun is a star as well, I see nothing amiss with using our close star, the Sun, for that purpose; and, the relationship of Earth's axial tilt relative to the Earth-Sun orbital plane that is the plane of the Zodiac itself, seems like a perfectly acceptable way to set the Sign boundaries. Second, around 2300 B.C.E., when the Babylonian Constellational imagery was first recorded, there was a seasonal correspondence to the imagery, using Heliacal reckoning. Which means, Tropicalism, with Signs corresponding to the Seasons, is entitled to use those as well.
The only question then, is whether Northern hemispheric, seasonally-based imagery, both original-Babylonian and Greco-Roman (with imagery adapted from the Babylonian), is appropriate for use in the Southern Hemisphere, where the Seasons are in reverse order. Dirius seems to think so.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Traditional astrology continues in accordance with tradition
rooted in VISIBLE LIGHT of seven VISIBLE classical planets
as well as eclipses, Fixed Stars
Cyril practiced modern astrology, using techniques such as solar and lunar returns, transits and progresssions. He was a scholar too, so his craft had some traditional underpinnings. It's to be expected, since in the 20th century almost no astrologer did traditional. He was friends with CEO Carter.
His ayanamsha used Spica (29° Virgo) at first, but then with Bradley developed a better version (corrected to 29°06 Virgo) referring to it as the SVP (Synetic Vernal Point), where Aldebaran and Antares are almost at 15° Taurus and Scorpio. This is close to the original Babylonian calculations according to Huber.
I have to clarify he was not a traditional astrologer. There were very few (if any) in his time.
His ayanamsha used Spica (29° Virgo) at first, but then with Bradley developed a better version (corrected to 29°06 Virgo) referring to it as the SVP (Synetic Vernal Point), where Aldebaran and Antares are almost at 15° Taurus and Scorpio. This is close to the original Babylonian calculations according to Huber.
I have to clarify he was not a traditional astrologer. There were very few (if any) in his time.
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
The fact is Traditional astrological principles
are based on LIGHT
and VISIBILITY
david starling
Well-known member
The fact is Traditional astrological principles
are based on LIGHT
and VISIBILITY
Right--first in the Foreground Age of Tropical Sagittarius, and then continuing, during its still-ongoing Background Age.