Declination Aspects

How important are they in correctly interpreting a chart? I have a heck of a lot of them... Also, how do I rectify the declination of the ascendant/houses? There is quite a bit of possible variance even within a 3 degree (this is rounded down, right?) Aqu rising...

Planet Longitude house Speed Latitude Declination
A Sun k 1°34'18" 12 1° 1' 2" 0° 0' 1" S 19°48'29" S
B Moon d 8°49'49" 6 12°11'35" 5° 0'50" S 18° 8'23" N
C Mercury j 7°15'38" 11 51'55" 1°37'21" N 21°37' 4" S
D Venus j 14°12'22" 12 1°15' 8" 0° 5'58" S 22°46'43" S
E Mars g 4°32'31" 8 10'16" 3° 5'39" N 1° 2' 8" N
F Jupiter j 29°59' 9" 12 14' 8" 0°21'39" S 20°30'15" S
G Saturn a 2°41'31" 2 4'50" 2°17'16" S 1° 1'45" S
O Uranus k 4°27' 2" 1 3'31" 0°34' 7" S 19°41'55" S
I Neptune j 27°36'11" 12 2'17" 0°25'21" N 20°13'27" S
J Pluto i 4°59'53" 10 1'31" 12°28' 1" N 8°51'11" S
K Mean Node g 1°57'59" 8 - 3'11" 0° 0' 0" N 0°46'55" S
L True Node g 0°36'43" 8 - 11'43" 0° 0' 0" N 0°14'36" S
N Chiron h 1°32'29" 9 2'46" 0°32'21" S 12°30'52" S
M Lilith e 23°42'57" 7 6'41" 3°11'27" S 10°35'59" N
Houses (Plac.) Declination
Asc. k 3°22'58" 19°23'51" S
2 l 16°37'49" 5°16'37" S
3 a 24°16' 9" 9°24'32" N
IC b 22°37' 4" 18°25'26" N
5 c 15°40'20" 22°40' 0" N
6 d 7°40'18" 23°12'53" N
Desc. e 3°22'58" 19°23'51" N
8 f 16°37'49" 5°16'37" N
9 g 24°16' 9" 9°24'32" S
MC h 22°37' 4" 18°25'26" S
11 i 15°40'20" 22°40' 0" S
12 j 7°40'18" 23°12'53" S

I just started learning about parallels last week, on this thread

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40285

dr. farr and JUPITERASC gave some good advice on interpreting parallels.

these links were also a good place to start

http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/declinationsparallels.html

http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/parallels.htm

http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/declination.html

What about contra-parallels? I can't find much about them. I know they work similarly to oppositions, but I'd like more details.

Also, shouldn't astrology just be done in 2 dimensions period to add more accuracy? I think it'd be cool. And we should have new terms to go with the new dimension.

Contra's are regarded as similar to oppositions, however, many who use the parallels and who consider them to be like strong conjunctions in their influece, largely ignore the contra's (some have considered there to be no difference between parallels and contraparallels, counting both as similar to conjunctions, parallels as strong conjunctions and contrparallels as weak conjunction-however, I myself do not share this view)

For me, I am well satisfied in only paying attention to the Parallels (primarily of declination, secondarily of latitude) in delineation...

Rebel, they are Essential for correctly interpreting any birth chart (or transits/progressions charts for that matter).

Parallels and Contra-Parallels are angular aspects, every bit as important as (and similar to) conjunctions and oppositions. Venus Parallel Asc operates the same way as Venus conjunct Asc. Sometimes the two coincide and this doubles the power of Venus upon the Asc.

I'm not sure what you mean by your question of how to rectify the declination of the Asc/houses.

Rebel Uranian said:

What about contra-parallels? I can't find much about them. I know they work similarly to oppositions, but I'd like more details.

Also, shouldn't astrology just be done in 2 dimensions period to add more accuracy? I think it'd be cool. And we should have new terms to go with the new dimension.

Click to expand...

parrallel
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/parallels.htm
http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/contraparallel.html
http://www2.bitstream.net/~bunlion/bpi/Glossary3.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/declinationsparallels.html

Contraparallel :
An aspect formed when two planets are in opposite declination, that is, when they are the same distance from the celestial equator, one north of it and one south. Generally considered to operate like an opposition.
http://www2.bitstream.net/~bunlion/bpi/Glossary.html#C
http://astrology.findyourfate.com/

What would I use for the orb? And what would you say about the Moon/Sun and Moon/Uranus declination aspects? I can't find a whole lot of info...

By finding declination of the ascendant, I mean just look at all those planets similar in declination that could be rising or not by declination and give very different results within the same zodiac degree.

Rebel Uranian said:

What would I use for the orb? And what would you say about the Moon/Sun and Moon/Uranus declination aspects? I can't find a whole lot of info...

By finding declination of the ascendant, I mean just look at all those planets similar in declination that could be rising or not by declination and give very different results within the same zodiac degree.

Click to expand...

Orb should be 1 to 1.5* only. If they are parallel, they will both be either N or S. Those are both as if in conjunction. Contraparallels read like an opposition. I <think> that you only look at planets parallel to major points, like ASC/MC, and not house cusps. The Cafe Astrology link I gave you has interpretations. Otherwise, you'll probably have to find a book, because my understanding is that a lot of "internet" astrologers don't use declinations much.

hth

I'd still like to know the actual interpretations of the aspects I have. Their Moon aspects (the most interesting in this case as I thought it was the only planet on my chart out of the direct, or somewhat indirect in the case of Capricorn ruled by Saturn, influence of my chart ruler) are often dead wrong.

Edit: I looked up Moon opposition Uranus on a thread from the old version of this site because all the random things I found weren't very good descriptions, and from now on I'm going to ask people to post their charts and tables (and always post my chart and tables,) because now absolutely everything makes complete sense. Someone with Moon in Cancer should not be half as detatched as I am, but a Moon opposition Uranus seems to have a heck of a lot of similarities to Moon in Aquarius (which I could relate to when reading about it) except harder to deal with (because it's an opposition obviously. Moon conjunct Uranus is pretty crazy too...)

How come these aspects aren't usually taught alongside the traditional ones? Why is this another area where things have fallen by the wayside, and we talk about it in small groups? I think I read that some ancient astrologers did refer to them. How were they regarded? Is this another area we are 're-discovering'?

These aspects always drove me nuts; reference to them is infrequent in the large highway of astro-communications as my eyes and ears have witnessed, and their interpretations even less frequent. It's a near-grantee of a headache. I don't think there is a missing aspects which suddenly reveals all we didn't know about ourselves either.

For me, this door isn't closed, but I do note some patterns as mentioned above...

These aspects absolutely need to be treated in equal importance to the zodiac aspects. They don't reveal all you didn't know about yourself, but they do suddenly make everything you spent countless hours trying to make sense of on your chart make sense, and they're equal in strength (with a 1/3 declination degree to zodiac degree ratio.) The interpretations of parallel and contra-parallel are the exact same as conjunction and opposition, respectively. I'm go off to spread awareness of them.

Another question: If I have something conjunct and parallel, if I'm tallying points for any of various reasons, should I count the conjunction twice?

byjove said:

How come these aspects aren't usually taught alongside the traditional ones? Why is this another area where things have fallen by the wayside, and we talk about it in small groups? I think I read that some ancient astrologers did refer to them. How were they regarded? Is this another area we are 're-discovering'?

These aspects always drove me nuts; reference to them is infrequent in the large highway of astro-communications as my eyes and ears have witnessed, and their interpretations even less frequent. It's a near-grantee of a headache. I don't think there is a missing aspects which suddenly reveals all we didn't know about ourselves either.

For me, this door isn't closed, but I do note some patterns as mentioned above...

Click to expand...

When I started learning astrology back in 1969 declinations were naturally included as part of the normal astrology classes. Planetary declinations were part of the American Ephemeris and others.

I think people stopped using them when the American Ephemeris stopped including the declination column. I don't know why they did that, but I think the standard of astrology started to fall from then on as well.

Declinations are derived from the latitude of Earth projected into the skies so planets in the same declination are in the same latitude over Earth. E.g. a planet at 2 degrees 30 minutes north declination is literally overhead latitude 2 degrees 30 minutes on Earth.

Therefore I think declinations aspects are excellent indicators of the ability to manifest those planetary energies very practically and in material ways.

If two planets are in exact declination and zodiacal conjunction, then one will occult the other. If you look up in the skies you will see one big 'star' or, if they are slightly out of exact in declination or zodiacal conjunction, two very, very close together. This is a very powerful aspect indeed.

I only use a one degree orb for declination aspects, anything else is too wide.

Alice

B Moon d 8°49'49" 6 12°11'35" 5° 0'50" S 18° 8'23" N

O Uranus k 4°27' 2" 1 3'31" 0°34' 7" S 19°41'55" S

So is that too wide? I don't think so, but would you think it is?

Also, how do I figure out the declination degree of the ascendant? I don't think I have Neptune on it from what I've read. There's nothing wrong with having Neptune there, I just don't think I do from my appearance and actions.

Yes, there seems to be agreement that an aspect by lattitude and longitude is very powerful. Do they have to be the same aspects though? I've Mercury conjunct MC, then contra by declination. Conjunct and contra?

And to find you ASC's declination, one place I know you can find it for free is in the other charts section of www.astro.com it will show you your declinations, including ascendant. I saved it as a .pdf on my computer for easy reference, then drew up a notepad list of parallels and contras.

I thought of that earlier, and that interests me. I have conjunct and parallel and opposition and contra, but not that unfortunately.

I know the table will show its declination, it's just that mine changes significantly relative the number of planets within a 1 degree orb at different declinations within the rectified 3 deg Aqu rising, and if you look, you can see why.

Also, which should actually be looked at as parallels and contras and which shouldn't? I don't want to bother with Mercury-Neptune for the reason everyone doesn't (but if it's there it's there), but Mercury-Venus seems pretty legit to me because they're already conjunct out-of-orb. The Moon opposite Uranus is also legit because the Moon takes wider orbs than other planets. Nothing there is truly within 1 deg orb except Sun-Uranus, Jupiter-Neptune (this sounds both extremely good and bad simultaneously), and Saturn-Mars, so I'm not sure.

As to orbs, my extensive experience using declinations in every natal chart and rectification shows me that outer planets like Neptune are still within orb of a calculated point like the Asc at 1*40'. I have chart cases in which independently offered information from the client plus lack of other aspect explanations confirms this. This means that inner planets are still in effective aspect closer to 2*. Obviously they are stronger when within 1*, just as longitude aspects are stronger when within 3*, but still aspects at the wider orb.

Byjove,
Not sure why the declinations are not taught alongside longitudes. The Magi Society has done considerable work emphasizing declinations as just as equally important. John Willner published similarly. Astrology has still not completely come out of the dark ages and there are some who would seemingly like to take us back there. Our charting systems reflecting a 'flat' universe rather than a 3-dimensional one and there is really no excuse. We know better. Some astrologers simply want to be head-in-sand and be satisfied with the status quo. Our charts should reflect declinations clearly.

As to interpretation of declination aspects, Parallels are conjunctions in declination. Understand that their interpretation is the same fusion of two or more planetary energies, but on a different (N/S) axis than longitudes (E/W). We don't say 'conjunction' of declination because its clumsier and doesn't distinguish it clearly enough. Interpret them as you would conjunctions. Contra-parallels are oppositions in declination, and should be interpreted as oppositions. As Alice mentioned when you have both a Parallel and Conjunction of planets/points it is very powerful. You have what the Magi Society refers to as a planetary eclipse, or as Alice said, an occultation of the more distant planet behind the closer one.

As to declinations in Ephemerides, both that I use (The American Ephemeris and Hieratic Ephemeris) include declinations. Astrodienst pdf data sheets all contain the declinations. ASTROLOG freeware contains the command line function: /sr (in edit menu) that triggers display of declinations of planets only (not calculated points). ZET freeware allows the option to mark Parallels of planets on the flat wheel chart. The real answer to the declination question is myopic vision, even laziness on the part of professional consulting astrologers, authors and teachers who are the ones who lead the way. I've asked other professionals and the standard answer is essentially that it takes too long or that it adds to much information. This answer comes from the one-eyed vision that a planetary position can be interpreted purely on one axis of its position. Lack of vision is what it comes down to, which is lack of understanding. I've done nearly all my study by viewing both the longitude and declination positions and they are two sides of the same coin.

The trend was towards inclusion of more planetoid bodies on the flat wheel chart during the 70s (beginning with Chiron and the work of Zip Dobyns) and attempts to change the rulership scheme using these planetary bodies. The result has been that astrologers and students have become information overloaded with both quantity of planet/oids referred to and to the theories of rulerships and much disagreement. The response to this within the professional and student community has been to return to traditional and/or classical concepts and scholarship, which is fine, but is producing mostly a counter-trend, rather than new substance to flesh out professional astrological practice.

Once we change our standard charting method to display declinations alongside longitudes this all will no longer be an issue. Here is a rough illustration for how we could be charting with declinations.

[/IMG]

So I have Moon conjunct Mercury (longitude, so the normal way) and parallel (latitude). But I also have Saturn trine Mercury and Moon and Saturn parallel. But the fact that Saturn is trine, does that ruin the parallel?? Also, since both Moon and Mercury are parallel does that mean the Moon was in front of Mercury at the time?? If so, what does that do to the aspect?? Does it make it a bad one or what? Does the Moon overpower Mercury and make my mind utterly subjective and emotional based?

I have Sun opposite Neptune (longitude, normally) 2 degree orb. But I also have Sun contra-parallel Neptune. Does that make me seriously delusional?? I think that's so funny XD

What if two planets are parallel, but they aren't even aspecting each other normally (longitude). Does the parallel still hold importance?

I also wonder if the parallel is the same to a conjunction. Would a person with Sun conjunct Venus in their chart have the same affect as Sun parallel Venus?

I don't know why this thread only has like 15 posts on it. Declinations are so interesting!

AppLeo said:

So I have Moon conjunct Mercury (longitude, so the normal way) and parallel (latitude).
But I also have Saturn trine Mercury and Moon and Saturn parallel.
But the fact that Saturn is trine, does that ruin the parallel??
Also, since both Moon and Mercury are parallel does that mean the Moon was in front of Mercury at the time??
If so, what does that do to the aspect??
Does it make it a bad one or what?
Does the Moon overpower Mercury and make my mind utterly subjective and emotional based?
I have Sun opposite Neptune (longitude, normally) 2 degree orb.
But I also have Sun contra-parallel Neptune.
Does that make me seriously delusional?? I think that's so funny XD
What if two planets are parallel, but they aren't even aspecting each other normally (longitude).
Does the parallel still hold importance?
I also wonder if the parallel is the same to a conjunction.
Would a person with Sun conjunct Venus in their chart have the same affect as Sun parallel Venus?
I don't know why this thread only has like 15 posts on it.
Declinations are so interesting!

Click to expand...

Thread discussing parallels and declinations
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40285

tsmall said:

So, wow, that applies, within 1/2* degree, both planets (Sun and Moon) below the horizon.
A look at the tables, and parallel declination also applies, again within 1/2*.
Parallel lattitude, and declination, led me to the OP,
which is..are Libra Sun and Pisces Moon conjunct in this chart?

Click to expand...

to which dr. farr responded as follows

dr. farr said:

For me, the answer is that they are AS IF IN STRONG CONJUNCTION since they are in close Parallel;
that means their influence would be as if Sun and Moon were conjunct,
but WITHOUT the combustion that would otherwise have been involved
IF they had been conjunct in longitude.

Further, I follow the doctrine that a P trumps a conjunction in longitude.

Click to expand...

Parallel and Antisica are two hidden aspects. Parallel and Antisicia stand for conjunct, whereas Contra parallel stands for opposite. As Kwanon told me years ago an orb varies from 1° to 1°50 is used for Sun/Moon and tone down to the planets. The tighter the orb the prominent the aspect would be. Plus the aspect would be much stronger if there is a conjunct or opposition. I use Antiscia and Declination in my interpretation of the chart.

AppLeo said:

So I have Moon conjunct Mercury (longitude, so the normal way) and parallel (latitude). But I also have Saturn trine Mercury and Moon and Saturn parallel. But the fact that Saturn is trine, does that ruin the parallel?? Also, since both Moon and Mercury are parallel does that mean the Moon was in front of Mercury at the time?? If so, what does that do to the aspect?? Does it make it a bad one or what? Does the Moon overpower Mercury and make my mind utterly subjective and emotional based?

I have Sun opposite Neptune (longitude, normally) 2 degree orb. But I also have Sun contra-parallel Neptune. Does that make me seriously delusional?? I think that's so funny XD

What if two planets are parallel, but they aren't even aspecting each other normally (longitude). Does the parallel still hold importance?

I also wonder if the parallel is the same to a conjunction. Would a person with Sun conjunct Venus in their chart have the same affect as Sun parallel Venus?

I don't know why this thread only has like 15 posts on it. Declinations are so interesting!

Click to expand...

Right!

I only have two - Venus parallel Mars and Mars contraparallel Pluto

Still trying to see how it works for me