Age of tropical Capricorn?

If you think about it, are there any reasons that Western culture since 400 A.D. does or doesn't look like the result of an Age of Capricorn?

The basic idea is that it didn't really overcome resistance from the combined momentum of the 3 previous tropical Ages--Libra (ancient Tigris-Euphrates), Scorpio (ancient Egypt), and Sagittarius (Hellenistic era)--until the middle period (circa 1300) and then began the gradual transformation into a mechanized, industrial culture.

It's the beginning of the Winter quadrant of Ages tropically: Cardinal (innovative) and of the Earth Element (materialistic)--a clear break with past cultures, beginning around 400 A.C.E.

This tropical Capricornian Age doesn't cancel out, the concurrent sidereal Age of Pisces, but it is dominate in the Western world.

Your thoughts?

No memes please.

david starling said:

If you think about it, are there any reasons that Western culture since 400 A.D. does or doesn't look like the result of an Age of Capricorn?

The basic idea is that it didn't really overcome resistance from the combined momentum of the 3 previous tropical Ages--Libra (ancient Tigris-Euphrates), Scorpio (ancient Egypt), and Sagittarius (Hellenistic era)--until the middle period (circa 1300) and then began the gradual transformation into a mechanized, industrial culture.

It's the beginning of the Winter quadrant of Ages tropically: Cardinal (innovative) and of the Earth Element (materialistic)--a clear break with past cultures, beginning around 400 A.C.E.

This tropical Capricornian Age doesn't cancel out, the concurrent sidereal Age of Pisces, but it is dominate in the Western world.

Your thoughts?

No memes please.

Click to expand...

It may not cancel the current sidereal age of Aquarius. 🙂

Approximately what degree do you think we are in tropically? How many years approximately is one age tropically?

Capricorn, my biggest thought for that is lists. My Mother made lists for everything. Lists of lists.

I seem to have noticed that many of them are school teachers. They like to have things strictly organized. They anger when you don’t do what they say. They prefer dominating, controlling, and prefer appearances to be akin to rose coloured glasses. Strictly.

Opal said:

It may not cancel the current sidereal age of Aquarius. ��

Approximately what degree do you think we are in tropically? How many years approximately is one age tropically?

Capricorn, my biggest thought for that is lists. My Mother made lists for everything. Lists of lists.

I seem to have noticed that many of them are school teachers. They like to have things strictly organized. They anger when you don’t do what they say. They prefer dominating, controlling, and prefer appearances to be akin to rose coloured glasses. Strictly.

Click to expand...

Extremely accurate time-keeping, everything dated and timed, business suits, corporations and capitalism, and the world banking system (which has it origins in the Renaissance period, halfway through this Age)--these are neither Piscean nor Aquarian.

The average length of a tropical Age is 1800 years, direct transit through our tropical charts, one minute of arc per year. The tropical Age of Sagittarius was exactly coincidental with the Hellenistic era, 1400 B.C.E. to 400 A.C.E., ruled by Zeus/Jupiter. That was followed by this current tropical Age of Capricorn, ruled by adversarial Saturn. It will soon reach the 28th degree of tropical Capricorn (2033).

By pattern, the Cardinal tropical-Sign Ages, which have to overcome resistance from the entire past quadrant of Ages, don't begin to manifest their full results until the end portion. It started with the 3rd decant (16th Century, of the new dating system for this new quadrant), and the formation of materialistic modern science for the culminating tropical Age of Capricorn.

In contrast, by pattern, the intense Fixed-sign Ages become effective immediately, building on and firmly establishing each new quadrant initiated by the preceding Cardinal-Sign Age.
Full effect for the Uranian ruled Aquarian Age, @ 0 degrees Aquarius, kicks off in 2149.

Btw, if tropical astrologers insist that the sidereal Aquarian Age has already begun, that cancels out both Vedic and Western sidereal astrology, which have their Aquarian Age beginning around 2400 A.C.E. following their Age of Pisces.

Each style has their own purpose.

Because I use Tropical for natal, should not mean that for everything, I have to use it.

For mundane, or horary, differing styles are adhered.

With the ages, the history of sidereal is longer even with the differences in start dates from many different professionals.

Tropically ages are relatively new, no? The book is being written.

Talk to you later, off to work!

Even the sidereal Ages are a new concept, beginning around 1900 A.C.E., including the publishing of the "Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ" by Levi H. Dowling in 1908.

The sidereal Ages weren't widely accepted by astrologers until Jung published his book about them in the 1930s, less than 100 years ago.

https://jessicadavidson.co.uk/2021/02/01/the-age-of-aquarius-and-precession-of-the-equinoxes/amp/

This article uses a different date. There are many theories. Even Praveen Mohan’s research, is looking further and further and further back, recognizing that the precession is not new, just being learned, again, and seeing how far back, the theories have existed, and recognizing that we are so small, and short sighted, burdened with an inability to track the truth, as far back as would be necessary to prove precession has been known, forever.

Opal said:

https://jessicadavidson.co.uk/2021/02/01/the-age-of-aquarius-and-precession-of-the-equinoxes/amp/

This article uses a different date. There are many theories. Even Praveen Mohan’s research, is looking further and further and further back, recognizing that the precession is not new, just being learned, again, and seeing how far back, the theories have existed, and recognizing that we are so small, and short sighted, burdened with an inability to track the truth, as far back as would be necessary to prove precession has been known, forever.

Click to expand...

As I see it, now that the sidereal Ages are known in modern times, the tendency is to project them as a concept back in time, attempting to say that previous civilizations also thought in terms of sidereal Ages.

Precession of the Equinoxes was surely known to the ancients. What they did with that knowledge is pure speculation.

However, these TROPICAL Ages are due to Precession of the Earth's PERIHELION, which is in a different ballpark.

The question I'm really asking is, can you put the sidereal Ages aside temporarily, and look at our Western history and culture as it gradually developed since around 400 A.C.E. as Capricornian, rather than Piscean?

I can easily see the influence of BOTH types of precessional Ages, the retrograde sidereal AND the direct tropical, acting together.

In Western culture, it's the tropical Age of Capricorn that's dominant.

In India, the sidereal Age of Pisces is dominant.

And, accordingly, tropical astrology is dominant in the West, and sidereal is dominant in India.

Tropical astrologers have dominated the sidereal Zodiac in the West, and used it as an "Ages-only" coordinate system, to do with as they please. They have CANCELLED siderealism itself for everything except the Ages, and are twisting it to suit themselves.

They are also misrepresenting both Pisces and Aquarius in a grotesque way, in order to make them fit their misguided version of why things are the way they are now, and the way they have been since 400 A.C.E. in Western civilization, due to their own settings of the sidereal Signs.

Well, I guess it's hopeless. The Modernistic, tropical "New Age Movement" is an orthodox religion, immune to logic and truth-seeking. A tropical Age of Capricorn is beyond its reasoning ability.

I blame it on the Saturnian rulership of the still-current, tropical Age of Capricorn.

I'll have better luck presenting this information once Pluto is out of Capricorn and in Aquarius.

Here's a fact, not an opinion: The sidereal Aquarian Age will begin when the Vernal Equinoctial Point (VP) ingresses the sidereal Sign of Aquarius, as located by the sidereal astrologers themselves. NOT as located by tropical astrologers who aren't using it to draw charts.
Another fact: The VP CAN'T tell us ANYTHING about the Ages in the tropical Zodiac, because it's already being used there to locate 0 degrees of tropical Aries, for now, and for evermore.

Sorry Opal. The Moon/Pluto conjunction in Cap got me!

We can just agree to disagree. It's the Piscean way.

david starling said:

Sorry Opal. The Moon/Pluto conjunction in Cap got me!

We can just agree to disagree. It's the Piscean way.

Click to expand...

No problem David! That is our motto! We both have a passion, that we partially share! All is good! 🙂

David, my obsession with the sidereal precession, is because of the mystery shrouding it. The stories, myths are pointing us to something. While I recognize the tropical precession, it is not what I am looking for. The purpose for, and the accuracy of the sidereal is what draws me. I guess, what started me, was “why does no one know with absolute accuracy when the ages start?”

The riddle. I am following, searching for is a sidereal riddle.

We each, all of us, have our obsessions!

Opal said:

David, my obsession with the sidereal precession, is because of the mystery shrouding it. The stories, myths are pointing us to something. While I recognize the tropical precession, it is not what I am looking for. The purpose for, and the accuracy of the sidereal is what draws me. I guess, what started me, was “why does no one know with absolute accuracy when the ages start?”

The riddle. I am following, searching for is a sidereal riddle.

We each, all of us, have our obsessions!

Click to expand...

I started studying the Ages as "Sidereal-only", with several start dates.

I was disappointed with the results, especially characterizing this as the Age of Pisces, but the uncertainty in general.

Then, I thought about the way Neptune was discovered, using aberrations in the Uranian orbital calculations. I also wanted to see if tropical astrology might have its own, exactly calculated Ages, to go along with the sidereal.

Finally, I remembered from taking Astronomy 1A in college that there are 2 types of Precession, the equinoxes and the Earth's perihelion.

The combination of effects from both types of Precessional-ages worked so well, I no longer needed to rely entirely on the sidereal. Plus, tropical doesn't have umpteen ways to locate its Signs, and the Earth's Perihelion can be tracked through the tropical Zodiac, whereas precession of the Equinoxes and Solstices can only be located relative to the sidereal Signs.

I like the way they unfold in opposite directions, both retrograde and direct, and still end up in an Age of Aquarius, which is what started all the interest in Precessional Ages to begin with.

The overlapping of tropical and sidereal is perfect. The 1800 year tropical Ages of Libra and Scorpio both are combined with the 2160 year Age of Taurus, the tropical Age of Fire-sign Sagittarius is combined with the sidereal Fire-sign Age of Aries, and the tropical Age of Capricorn is included within nearly all of the opinions about when the sidereal Age of Pisces began.

The tropical Age of Capricorn is harshing the mellow of the sidereal Age of Pisces! Bigtime!

I'm also very p!eased not to have to cancel Western sidereal and Vedic astrology in order to explain just why the Aquarian Age is much closer than their Sign-placements would allow.

I've been reviewing the myriad opinions concerning the Ages, and it's quite a quagmire!

I think my best option to be simply explaining this alternative view, from a tropical, rather than a sidereal vantage point, and then juxtaposing it with the sidereal view as also correct as determined by the Western siderealists and Vedic astrologers.

It relies entirely on the almost unanimous opinion that there should be 12 EQUAL Sign divisions, rather than unequal divisions based on the varying extent of the Zodiacal constellations for sidereal as well as tropical.

So, anyone preferring the unequal-length constellations to determine the Ages, won't be able to use it.