Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > Anything Else... > Chat

Chat For posts that don't have to do with astrological chart interpretation, but they're still important to you. Gossip, show off, hot topic, spiritual thoughts, Sun sign astrological discussions, chit chat: come in and share!


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 03-15-2016, 04:20 PM
noraleader noraleader is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 449
perspective

i had one topic for a chat thread, then found another, and decided to put them both in one thread, with the generalised topic, *perspective*


PERSPECTIVE, or lack of it perhaps, is a predominant theme in my vital experience. i am an *aquarius* with *virgo ascendant* - both signs are "reinforced" in my chart (have more than one planet).

my erudition in life is *multinational* - i travelled around the world twice before i was two, and have lived in the united states since i was ten.

as a *virgo ascendant aquarius* one may anticipate that not only do i wish strongly to share my erudition with others, but i think it's a "pretty good one!" and would jolly well be of some benefit *should society, at any point, wish to validate anything, anything ever i offer*

yes, most of my vital energy goes towards reconciling intercultural discrepancies, such as "america number one" with the rest of the world, which isn't so bad tbh. trying to manufacture receptive appreciation in any way i can, to reduce stereotypes, preconception, and the ravages that usually result from them. i think, it's a pretty great thing, to go about in the world, hoping that you can get people to appreciate other cultures and stop seeing them as idiots or animals. this is of course, "work in progress..." "ymmv".



the first topic i thought chattable:

my, my. i've been on this forum less than a week, and only intensified my erudition of astrology for a few months now. i did recently think to myself, what a lot in life these astrologers must have, constantly being contacted by sick, desperate people, looking for solutions to often hopeless situations.

you know, you think, aah, astrology, insight into life, how cool, without considering the hordes of needful people seeking you out.

but, since i have been here, on this forum, it's been thread after thread of "when will i marry?" and "am i going to get a date?"

weeeellll... my first reaction is, i am so glad that so many people are living comfortably enough that this is the foremost issue in their lives!

i'm not saying this to complain about you, but hoping to impart some sense of *PERSPECTIVE*

which may help you rightly consider the scope of these issues and find more fitting solutions for addressing them in your lives

do you know, in west papua, they are getting their limbs hacked off, so western mining corps can rape their landmass, for a mere $3 mil in support payoffs to the indonesian military? most people seem never to have even heard of west papua, or the grasberg mine. they are, if anything, proud and happy that freeport mcmoran is "providing technological education to indigenous people". overjoyed to see the people of nepal finally get the cable television and barrage of coca cola advertisements they deserve, so they can live free, like us.

there are *so many* desparate situations in the world, yet people are worried about the next chance they can snuggle, fornicate and reproduce. maybe the wording is a bit too stark but consider, instead of worrying about whether life is going to magically become awesome for you, perhaps going out into the world and attempting to assist others will increase your involvement and venues for meeting a significant other!

i think "social venues" suck.. bars, coffeeshops, places where the primary function is "meeting other people" as a great mass of persons are looking for someone else to create meaning in their lives, and as such, are functionally dead weight. so, by intending to be of assistance, one can actually do something useful while meeting people who are focused on real concerns instead of flighty fantasies of perfect hedonism. by pursuing solutions to social problems, you may meet a kind, intelligent person who will benefit from your free time and energy, instead of someone who only intends to feed off it unsatisfyingly, who has no deeper sense of meaning in life than expectantly waiting the next release of some video game franchise.

and there are many such venues available.. wilderness and wildlife restoration projects abound, providing opportunities to interact with healthy minded people. it just seems so much more like a method that will actually have a beneficial result than sitting at your computer asking people on an astrology forum if you will magically have a marriage soon!!!!?!?!?



perspective number two... and this is for the astrologers, not for the astrologees...

Quote:
Please stick to astrological reading of the chart attached. If you have an astrological opinion, back it up with astrology. If you want to simply give an opinion without astrology, go to the Chat Forum.
this seems rather myopic to me. "hope you spot another thread to dramatically create diaspora for your issue". forbidding any expression unless it's in astrological terms seems about as effective for problem solving as insisting that members of parliament mime their positions on important issues. sometimes, something may be glaringly obvious, but if i'm not allowed to say it unless i'm breakdancing, then what value is my erudition?! to excise all other considerations rather defeats the entire value of being alive and having them.

don't you think problems are significant enough that they may be actually worth addressing rather than treating all as technical exercises?! these are people's lives!

certainly, the value here is to reduce the amount of non-astrological input in the appropriate forums, but i think this level of policing is unnecessary. if you need to implement this kind of nanny control, it is unlikely posters will develop the discretion to apply themselves appropriately without being nannied.

and.. having spent most of my childhood in a very civil, socialist nation, i do have an appreciation of reserved, considerate expression, even though life has transported me to venues where such things are swiftly foregone. but perhaps you can also loosen up on your censorship algorithm some.

when you blank out words that aren't utilised in a disparaging sense, you make the writer appear to have a different character than the one they wish to convey.

i recently typed that "i appeared to be an a-s-s" but the word was censored as if i were a gangsta rapper. i believe the first use is entirely civil, at least in the minds of decent people.

i also recently typed the phrase "fear p-o-r-n" and had that word blanked out, obfuscating the meaning of what i had written. the word is not the thing... and modern culture uses that term in a variety of similar applications "nowadays".

another censored word, "c-r-a-p" - seriously... this is an unseeable term???! who is offended by this word?! i am reduced to saying "i felt like doodoo" - how old are we?!!!!!!

breathe. live a little. at least, recheck your word list so i don't have to edit all my polite messages.


i'm sure someone will say, this belongs in the other forum!

Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to noraleader For This Useful Post:
unique_astrology (03-26-2016)
  #2  
Unread 03-15-2016, 09:17 PM
conspiracy theorist's Avatar
conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: clearing
Posts: 15,328
Re: perspective

Hey dude

I've been reading your posts and you seem to have a pretty unique style to your expression.

I'm going to play double's advocate here

The thought that people are frivolous for wanting cuddle time when there are other pressing matters in the world has crossed my mind many times but I've recently began using that "perspective" that you refer to. My view is that this can go both ways.

Meaning -- Humans are said to have a capacity to really know and care for approximately 250 people, a standard village size. After a certain threshold you start to fall into the amorphous background character box. It may be the ideal to have the whole world in one big embrace where true love can be poured out among 6 billion people but we know that that is far from the reality.

For many people, West Papua might as well be in the Andromeda -- there is no conscious recognition that this place exists. And while you have brought attention to this situation, the reality of your words are unlikely to cut deep because this place is still only an abstraction in the mind.

However, what is definitely not an abstraction to some folks is that loneliness or that burning desire to merge with another. That is something a person would be more likely to respond to.Because let's face it, at base humans are more likely to act if it is in their self- interest to do so and in the majority of humans the instinct for self preservation and intimacy are much stronger than any altruistic feelings they may have. No going into the crosshairs to find the one when they can stroll to the coffee shop and chat up that cute brunette whose making eyes at them.

So to those people, marriage might be on the same scale as a massacre to them. Taking an impartial view, this is obviously bullshite but it still doesn't stop some from getting deeply depressed and destructive over lack of love. Elliot Roger is a tragic example.

Very few can forego their basic instincts to travel a more noble path. But the ones who take up the gauntlet become the saints whose names are etched in history for taking an interest in humanity will make humanity remember your name.

As to the rules, this place is pretty laid back when it comes to moderation in my view. That paragraph you quoted isn't enforced 100% as most here seems to have a good sense of discretion when it comes to discussing topics, which includes the moderators. So you are unlikely to see any tyrannical or biased censoring taking place. I'd be out the door if that were the case. Word bans are annoying but they are a minor nuisance imo
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 03-15-2016, 10:01 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 62,877
Re: perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post

It may be the ideal to have the whole world in one big embrace
where true love can be poured out among 6 billion people
but we know that that is far from the reality.

au contraire mon ami
HH XIV Dalai Lama lives that reality




__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 03-15-2016, 10:07 PM
conspiracy theorist's Avatar
conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: clearing
Posts: 15,328
Re: perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
It may be the ideal to have the whole world in one big embrace where true love can be poured out among 6 billion people but we know that that is far from the reality.
That's the key part.

Quote:
Very few can forego their basic instincts to travel a more noble path
And the Dalai Lama is one of them
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 03-15-2016, 10:13 PM
Kitchy Kitchy is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Wild Wild West
Posts: 2,097
Re: perspective

We all see our world based on what we need to see, not what others see.
Maslow's hierarchy of needs has different manifestations in different societies and cultures - amid and among the worst situations of poverty and despair to the most opulent or thriving situations. By perspective.

Does the rich daughter of a Hindu yearn for love the same way a poor lower caste person yearns? The need for love & affection trumps most all else in our life - look at Romanian orphans under Ceaucescu.

The only commonality is what we believe we need for our own survival. Everything is relative therafter.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg perspective.jpg (22.0 KB, 1 views)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 03-15-2016, 10:25 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 62,877
Re: perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitchy View Post

We all see our world based on what we need to see, not what others see.
Maslow's hierarchy of needs has different manifestations in different societies and cultures
- amid and among the worst situations of poverty and despair to the most opulent or thriving situations.
By perspective.

Maslow's perspective


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitchy View Post

Does the rich daughter of a Hindu yearn for love the same way a poor lower caste person yearns?

Depends what is meant by "the same way"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitchy View Post

The need for love & affection trumps most all else in our life
- look at Romanian orphans under Ceaucescu.

The only commonality is what we believe we need for our own survival.
Everything is relative therafter.

Not everyone is motivated by a need for their own survival




__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 03-15-2016, 10:32 PM
deepminde deepminde is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 225
Re: perspective

Noraleader, you write like a naive person with a sense of entitlement. Your point of view is not better than others and read some psychology books about human needs.

And where is your chart?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to deepminde For This Useful Post:
Dubyadude1986 (04-07-2016)
  #8  
Unread 03-15-2016, 11:17 PM
graay ghost's Avatar
graay ghost graay ghost is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,480
Re: perspective

Aquarius? You sound like you're falling into the classical Aquarian trap: desperately wanting to help *people* but at the same time despising *people*, often the very same people we're trying to help, for being small-minded.

Like, I'm just a simple-minded Taurus asc/Cancer sun, but I mean, what do you think activism is for? I mean, we fight so hard so that people can live peaceful, happy lives... and what do people do with their peaceful, happy lives if not snuggle? "When will I find love?" is a question that has been asked for a very long time by a lot of people, an relatively few of them have been computer-using, comfortable individuals with enough free time on their hands to study astrology. To struggle so much and yet lose sight of the very reason we're struggling is kind of... well it's not good, I don't think.

And anyway not everyone is going to disclose every part of their life here. We have no idea how much activism any individual posting on this forum is engaging in. Complaining about people not doing activism is going to **** off both people who aren't currently engaged in activism (because you're telling them what to do) and people who are currently engaged in activism (because you're telling them to do something they're already doing). Shaming people isn't really a great motivator.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 03-16-2016, 12:05 AM
Kitchy Kitchy is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Wild Wild West
Posts: 2,097
Re: perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Maslow's perspective



Depends what is meant by "the same way"


Not everyone is motivated by a need for their own survival




Jupiter - your boner for Kitchy has no place here - this thread is about Nora Leader's original post and the perspectives one wants to share with her, not to distract from her thoughts without direct address to her. Learn your manners and while you're at, put an apron on your hard on and google some mother theresa and dali lama astrology. People want love, not haymaking hoodwinking that comes at distraction of those who have never known it or refuse to believe it exists. Go away now -
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 03-16-2016, 12:07 AM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 62,877
Re: perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitchy View Post
Jupiter - your boner for Kitchy has no place here - this thread is about Nora Leader's original post and the perspectives one wants to share with her,
not to distract from her thoughts without direct address to her.
Learn your manners and while you're at,
put an apron on your hard on and google some mother theresa and dali lama astrology.
People want love, not haymaking hoodwinking
that comes at distraction of those who have never known it or refuse to believe it exists. Go away now -

Well you are entitled to your opinion
with which many could disagree
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread 03-16-2016, 12:08 AM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 62,877
Re: perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by graay ghost View Post

Aquarius? You sound like you're falling into the classical Aquarian trap:
desperately wanting to help *people*
but at the same time despising *people*, often the very same people we're trying to help, for being small-minded.
there is no "classical Aquarian type"
unless one is practicing the fun but unreliable "cookbook recipe one-size-fits-all School of Astrological Generalisation "

Quote:
Originally Posted by graay ghost View Post
Like, I'm just a simple-minded Taurus asc/Cancer sun,
to self-describe as being "simple-minded" is personal choice
but to infer that all Taurus asc/Cancer sun are "simple-minded"
is unrealistic

Quote:
Originally Posted by graay ghost View Post

but I mean, what do you think activism is for?
I mean, we fight so hard so that people can live peaceful, happy lives...
and what do people do with their peaceful, happy lives if not snuggle? "When will I find love?" is a question that has been asked for a very long time by a lot of people,
an relatively few of them have been computer-using, comfortable individuals with enough free time on their hands to study astrology.
All questions are important to each particular individual
even if they appear trivial
with reference to horary
it is ironic that many are unaware that answers to many questions
may be found using horary
depending on level of skill reading horary charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by graay ghost View Post

To struggle so much and yet lose sight of the very reason we're struggling is kind of...
well it's not good, I don't think.

And anyway not everyone is going to disclose every part of their life here.
We have no idea how much activism any individual posting on this forum is engaging in.
Complaining about people not doing activism is going to **** off both people who aren't currently engaged in activism
(because you're telling them what to do) and people who are currently engaged in activism
(because you're telling them to do something they're already doing).
Shaming people isn't really a great motivator.

good point well made
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 03-16-2016, 03:31 AM
noraleader noraleader is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 449
Re: perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
Meaning -- Humans are said to have a capacity to really know and care for approximately 250 people, a standard village size.
and you believed it???!!!!

a few years ago i was staying in a small village in NSW, hunter valley, world heritage ecology, and rich coal/gas seam.

initialise conflict of interest when chinese mining co. buys the land.

the polite, civic residents are stricken. village meeting, tears were shed. intimidation tactics were used, thugs were hired, "we pay you $20 so we can sink a gas tap on your property".

someone said to me, "gas is big, you are small."

and to this day, i feel so sad that someone would believe that

anyway.. it took five years, but they "locked the gate" and shut them down.




there are many mechanisms for helping people to feel comfortable with being inadequate, with accepting a small scope of interests.

why can't there be, roughly, an equal number of mechanisms for helping people to feel comfortable with a greater scope of consideration? if you're going to prosletyse, it certainly seems the more beneficial sort of thing to vet for. embiggen the fellaheen.


back to NSW... lovely thing to share.. the tassies..

people said tassies are two categories.. loggers and tree huggers (i forget the word they used for this group, same thought). i have some experience with the underworld (tucson, bordertown in a number of senses) and noticed a pair of young tassie "operatives" move into the village campground.

they stayed for a week, took note of me straight away, cased out the entire town and worked it like ninja. before they left, these enterprising young people had met with several influential members of the community and deposited thousands of flyers in mailboxes warning people of the consequences of tolerating fracking in their lovely, tourism enriched community.

i suppose they were working on an entirely voluntary basis, unless there's some kind of secret "eco defender central" clan down there. total cost.. a week's vacation and the price of some flyers. total benefit.. unquantifiable.. still kind of makes my throat all funny to think about them.

but no, that's why i like to talk about memetics so much.. because i don't believe there is a standard human vantage/outlook. i've lived enough places to appreciate that. it's in the "media enriched" nations that people have a false sense of certainty because they've "seen and heard it all" making them "experts" about all kinds of things they have zero immersion in, such as being from a culture where you actually have to think about things instead of lollygagging on an endless supply of media.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 03-16-2016, 05:32 AM
conspiracy theorist's Avatar
conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: clearing
Posts: 15,328
Re: perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by noraleader View Post
and you believed it???!!!!
Out of the myriads of people I pass by/ interact with in a day, I'd say I only truly care and know about 20 of them, if that many. Know in the sense of, "Hey, Jim you know I've always wanted to travel to the amazon and go on an Ayahuasca retreat." -- The in-depth nitty gritty that the general public would never guess by just staring at my blank expression. It makes sense to me because we just don't have the equipment to store the immense load of information that intimately knowing more than 300 humans would require.

It's a workable theory until further experience proves the contrary.


Quote:
Originally Posted by noraleader View Post
a few years ago i was staying in a small village in NSW, hunter valley, world heritage ecology, and rich coal/gas seam.

initialise conflict of interest when chinese mining co. buys the land.

the polite, civic residents are stricken. village meeting, tears were shed. intimidation tactics were used, thugs were hired, "we pay you $20 so we can sink a gas tap on your property".

someone said to me, "gas is big, you are small."

and to this day, i feel so sad that someone would believe that
I have no reason to doubt that you had a genuine and very real care for those villagers,but could you deny that living amongst them had no part to play in your feelings? This is what I was getting at. Your cosmopolitan lifestyle has made it possible for you to experience firsthand what many people will only have a vague idea of. Seeing the strife that those citizens went through has made such a situation very "real" to you while I'm so far removed from the situation that imagining the crying and shaking leave me unmoved. (Although I may just have a general deficiency there).

Quote:
Originally Posted by noraleader View Post
there are many mechanisms for helping people to feel comfortable with being inadequate, with accepting a small scope of interests.

why can't there be, roughly, an equal number of mechanisms for helping people to feel comfortable with a greater scope of consideration?
Imo, that might take some time for "general humanity's" innate capacities to expand to a level where the depth of feeling is just as powerful for someone half way across the globe than for one who you know from your neighbourhood. The world is moving towards mass connectivity and perhaps this may pave the way for people to get more comfy with a "greater scope of consideration" as they get aware of the movements that occur in various in the various global societies.

A consideration for you (are you an Aussie?) -- Don't you think that your preference for a more global view developed as a result of your travelling lifestyle. One who spends there life (from the age of 2) travelling to different places might not appreciate someone with a more localized perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noraleader View Post
but no, that's why i like to talk about memetics so much.. because i don't believe there is a standard human vantage/outlook. i've lived enough places to appreciate that. it's in the "media enriched" nations that people have a false sense of certainty because they've "seen and heard it all" making them "experts" about all kinds of things they have zero immersion in, such as being from a culture where you actually have to think about things instead of lollygagging on an endless supply of media.
Maybe you could have a thread that's focused on memetics as its an area that I would like to get into.

I agree with this for the most part but perhaps your painting these "media enriched nations" with too broad a brush. The constant inundation by the media forces with their agenda pushing and bias has bred a general distrust among elements of the population towards anything in the mainstream media. This can further develop into a general skepticism about any topic one comes across, making one into a person who "actually thinks about things" instead of being fed by groups whose sole purpose is to keep you locked into a false reality where they have all the power.

An example of this rebellion is the whole Trump movement going on in America right now. Memetics, imo, has been a major boon for Trump's campaign as all of creative and potent "propoganda" has developed around his persona and success. Phrases like "Can't stump the Trump" or "God Emperor Trump"plants into people's minds Trump's seeming invincibility and prowess which many people are attracted because many seem to be of the mindset that America is in need of a saviour.

I definitely agree with what you say about wasting time on empty media.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 03-16-2016, 05:20 PM
noraleader noraleader is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 449
Re: perspective

Quote:
It's a workable theory until further experience proves the contrary.
iirc yoda said something along the lines of "so certain are you.." ... i don't generally talk too much about my own particularities as certain rhetorical styles prefer to dissuade consideration via ad hominems, but i think a bit of elicitation is appropriate here -

a portion of my youth was spent in socialist britain (similar in many ways to oz), where i received the uber socialist brainwash associated with eg. "bagpuss" - consideration for others *in a busy civic environment* is an intrinsic valuation for the citizen in this mileu, much diluted now by eg. "american media". to contrast with the "out for our own" style of competitive united states, one of the things that irked me was that people who meet in avenues of traffic do not extricate themselves from same.. when americans encounter a friend in a busy doorway, they stop right there and chat like a hollywood vignette while suckers have to squeeze under their armpits.

to you it may be inconceivable to cultivate a state of mind where the interests of others are maintained at all times, trying to suggest otherwise to myself, or perhaps someone from china, is ludicrous.

even moreso, a farsi, or a jain! gandhi quipped (gandhi...!!!!) "farsi, thy name is generosity.." and jains (the world's oldest recorded belief system, and still in the top ten most populous, but utterly alien to capitalist thought..) practice ahimsa, which is absolute nonviolence...

the jain empires... ***empires*** recorded their tenets on stone monoliths. can you imagine a culture with such implicit consideration that foremost among their written laws would be the principle,

do not walk foolishly on the grass. you might put your foot down next to a tiny creature and give it quite a fright

jains do not prosletyse, and capitalism does not care to relate this level of consideration. there is a famous picture (from the 80s i think) of an airliner taking off, the runway covered with thousands of bent over people (i suppose they would appear to be muslims to americans). the particularities of this event - a jain monastic wished to travel to the u.s. to prosletyse, the faithful threw their bodies on the runway because for jains, intercedence is violence, because for jain monastics, travel is a form of violence! travel also leads to experience, which is violence in the mind, and coes not cultivate transcendence from this life.

there are two primary sects of jainism, the monastics of one (svetambara) are recognised by their white face masks. these are worn to protect their souls from accidentally inhaling and causing harm to flying creatures.

can you, who claim to barely care for twenty people, begin to accede that you have no conception whatsoever of the level of care these people carry, as a persisting world heritage culture!

as i understand it, in india, india! the jains are renowned for their sharpness of intellect

an american who is encouraged to purchase raw materials in bulk from home depot or costco without a second thought for where those materials were derived and where they will go to, has no idea of the violence of their day to day lives, from the perspective of these "gentler cultures".

i remember seeing an african man in one such warehouse store, who was practically paralysed, staring over a sea of rotund consumers puching flatbed carts stacked with commodities.. pyramids of toilet paper..

paper (for example) is a precious, rare commodity to some, that takes labour to grow, refine, produce, and preserve.

trying to suggest that a human being can have a finite concern for others, well.. i am sure you are confident that what you know is real! (this is tongue in cheek, you may have seen my post on the nature of knowledge in another thread )

people in authoritarian cultures are certain that they know many things. because they "need to function within their societies," it would be almost impossible to convince them otherwise, or to cultivate a state of uncertainty, genuine uncertainty. it is not strange to me. if you are raised in an unadulterated buddhist culture, where each expression is to remind you that the world doesn't exist, what will you be certain of then? certainly not, that you can only care for 25, or 250 people or even 2.5

i've been certain of things, and perhaps i am at this time (it doesn't overly concern me because i'd rather not be certain about it..) so i am certainly not attempting to suggest your reasoning is inferior. you are where you are, having experiences and vantages that are associated with this state. if either of our considerations alter as a result of exchange on a forum, this is a potentiated becoming that we may associate with being in this world. there is no need to have an opinion of it's worth, or rank, or compete. we impart here, perhaps we receive and consider also


i think i can articulate that in previous times, especially during schooling, i was often more certain of things than i am now (perhaps!) and lest i be considered an insensate, i shall "defensively" assert that my intellect still seems to function well enough to generate software solutions that appear to describe integrated functioning, so perhaps i am not totally dysfunctional? - now, i will say that as i became less certain, and more considerate, and my sense of attention developed away from certainties and more toward the present, that i secured "aptitudes" or "abilities" i did not experience often in my younger days.

i often put forth,

attention is the most valuable commodity in existence.

and where do we place it? media, flickering LCD screens, electronic signals confined to a bandwidth, so that whatever may lie outside that bandwidth does not concern our perception or expression. and certainly, science tells us what we are capable of seeing and hearing. (i understand that one of the precepts of hinduism is increasing the range of perception). these same scientific authorities are also willing to purport the nature of our psychological function, so that we only need to read a book (!) to be aware of, whatever society concedes to be the limits and nature of our behaviour and capabilities.

have you ever heard anythnig so ludicrous in your life this is intelligence by consensus, and consensus is something that can be upheaved by corruption, as if such things were unseen (...) in the world today.

it is not as if the destructive materialists are simply a sorry lot, for the depth of semantic articulation is a form of marvel.

for memetics, i don't think that there is really much to it, apart from gravitating towards the observance of transference of notion. a meme is perhaps more diverse than some may believe - the way someone twists their elbow when performing a common movement may have a function of ideological transference between beings. it is hard to say, what cannot be a meme. we are simply cultivating an attention for how we receive and form the things we think.

so, perhaps to one person, the idea of "maverick" individualist autonomy is idiotic, to the other, the idea of perception by herding is ..imprudent.. ...but i can assure you... both of these acclimatisations are present in global populations numbering in the billions... it is not so hard and fast that rationale by empiric evidence is predominant or the only sensible deduction.

Last edited by noraleader; 03-16-2016 at 05:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 03-16-2016, 05:59 PM
thelonelyguest thelonelyguest is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 3
Chica nora, better write a book, why waste time here, u so radical chica oy vei
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to thelonelyguest For This Useful Post:
deepminde (03-18-2016)
  #16  
Unread 03-16-2016, 09:51 PM
conspiracy theorist's Avatar
conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: clearing
Posts: 15,328
Re: perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelonelyguest View Post
Chica nora, better write a book, why waste time here, u so radical chica oy vei
His unorthodox monologues have been thought-provoking. I don't see how he is "wasting time" by putting his ideas out there for people to judge and consider.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 03-16-2016, 10:04 PM
duenderoja's Avatar
duenderoja duenderoja is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1,138
Re: perspective

But you have to admit, conspiracy theorist, the posts are very long.

I cannot see this individual lasting very long here, because they will become disillusioned even further. Also, someone like myself will complain that their tirades have absolutely no astrology in them.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 03-16-2016, 10:31 PM
Kitchy Kitchy is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Wild Wild West
Posts: 2,097
Re: perspective

Maybe NL is experiencing the Cap stellium of 89'is - Saturn Uranus Neptune and maybe it's in 9th house or 3rd and maybe it's got something with Moon and Uranus or 11th house.

Hopefully nothing more sinister than that.

Perspective is funny weird funny. The very notion that we can all be of one mind and body for the universe that will take care of us all forever if we let it.

When has that ever worked?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 03-16-2016, 10:50 PM
conspiracy theorist's Avatar
conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: clearing
Posts: 15,328
Re: perspective

Quote:
iirc yoda said something along the lines of "so certain are you.." ... i don't generally talk too much about my own particularities as certain rhetorical styles prefer to dissuade consideration via ad hominems
It would be unfortunate if any perceived "rhetorical style" would stop you from expressing yourself. And another misfortune seems to be that you have pegged me for the "know-it-all" type. I assure you, if I wasn't considering your viewpoint, I would've ignored your posts -- they are a bunch of mini novels

Quote:
a portion of my youth was spent in socialist britain (similar in many ways to oz), where i received the uber socialist brainwash associated with eg. "bagpuss" - consideration for others *in a busy civic environment* is an intrinsic valuation for the citizen in this mileu, much diluted now by eg. "american media". to contrast with the "out for our own" style of competitive united states, one of the things that irked me was that people who meet in avenues of traffic do not extricate themselves from same.. when americans encounter a friend in a busy doorway, they stop right there and chat like a hollywood vignette while suckers have to squeeze under their armpits.
Have you considered that I'm not an American? Where I come from people have the presence of mind to remove themselves from avenues of traffic. It's a place that once was under the influence of the British.

Quote:
to you it may be inconceivable to cultivate a state of mind where the interests of others are maintained at all times, trying to suggest otherwise to myself, or perhaps someone from china, is ludicrous.
To me this is not the case. What I'm trying to convey is that there is nuance between the care and consideration that one gives to there closest and dearest and the care and consideration that one gives to the wider world around them. Many people flee from China to make a life for themselves, hardly the compassionate state of mind that one assumes a person from China would possess. My great great grandfather was one of them.

Quote:
the jain empires... ***empires*** recorded their tenets on stone monoliths. can you imagine a culture with such implicit consideration that foremost among their written laws would be the principle,

do not walk foolishly on the grass. you might put your foot down next to a tiny creature and give it quite a fright
Thanks for the lesson on Jainism, and I'm not being sarcastic.

There consideration for the value of human life may be more developed and evolved than most others, but is the path of peace the only way to go through the world and be satisfied?

Quote:
as i understand it, in india, india! the jains are renowned for their sharpness of intellect
Kudos to them for being so smart

Quote:
can you, who claim to barely care for twenty people, begin to accede that you have no conception whatsoever of the level of care these people carry, as a persisting world heritage culture!
Did I ever make such a declaration?

Quote:
trying to suggest that a human being can have a finite concern for others, well.. i am sure you are confident that what you know is real! (this is tongue in cheek, you may have seen my post on the nature of knowledge in another thread )
You have a bad habit of assuming.
Quote:
i've been certain of things, and perhaps i am at this time (it doesn't overly concern me because i'd rather not be certain about it..) so i am certainly not attempting to suggest your reasoning is inferior. you are where you are, having experiences and vantages that are associated with this state. if either of our considerations alter as a result of exchange on a forum, this is a potentiated becoming that we may associate with being in this world. there is no need to have an opinion of it's worth, or rank, or compete. we impart here, perhaps we receive and consider also
I had a similar picture of this being more of a conversation than an outright debate. But you don't seem like the type to be satisfied by unanimous agreement, so why not contest some points whilst we dialogue?

Quote:
i think i can articulate that in previous times, especially during schooling, i was often more certain of things than i am now (perhaps!)
Hmm, I am in my "schooling" period and my dad used to tell me as a teenager, "You may think you know it all, but when you get older you'll realise that you don't know shite". Seems you're telling me the same thing only more eloquently.

Quote:
and lest i be considered an insensate, i shall "defensively" assert that my intellect still seems to function well enough to generate software solutions that appear to describe integrated functioning, so perhaps i am not totally dysfunctional?
How about hooking up your friends at AW when you're done with your astro software project?

Quote:
now, i will say that as i became less certain, and more considerate, and my sense of attention developed away from certainties and more toward the present, that i secured "aptitudes" or "abilities" i did not experience often in my younger days.
Sounds like "mindfulness" to me. But certainly this is not the only reason for the change of perspective. Perhaps age has to do with it as well?

Quote:
attention is the most valuable commodity in existence.
Interesting. Has this view developed from the cultures that you hold in high regard? This sounds linked to your previous statement about being more considerate.

Quote:
so, perhaps to one person, the idea of "maverick" individualist autonomy is idiotic, to the other, the idea of perception by herding is ..imprudent.. ...but i can assure you... both of these acclimatisations are present in global populations numbering in the billions... it is not so hard and fast that rationale by empiric evidence is predominant or the only sensible deduction.
Agreed here
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Unread 03-16-2016, 10:55 PM
conspiracy theorist's Avatar
conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: clearing
Posts: 15,328
Re: perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by duenderoja View Post
But you have to admit, conspiracy theorist, the posts are very long.

I cannot see this individual lasting very long here, because they will become disillusioned even further. Also, someone like myself will complain that their tirades have absolutely no astrology in them.
Yeah, they're pretty long alright and they tend to ramble.

But no reason why they can't stay in chat where whoever is interested can read and respond -- or not.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Unread 03-16-2016, 10:57 PM
graay ghost's Avatar
graay ghost graay ghost is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,480
Re: perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
His unorthodox monologues have been thought-provoking. I don't see how he is "wasting time" by putting his ideas out there for people to judge and consider.
I think they were more talking about Nora wasting her own time... Why yammer away on an obscure forum on the internet when you could be out in the real world doing good?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Unread 03-16-2016, 10:59 PM
conspiracy theorist's Avatar
conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: clearing
Posts: 15,328
Re: perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by graay ghost View Post
I think they were more talking about Nora wasting her own time... Why yammer away on an obscure forum on the internet when you could be out in the real world doing good?
If they're stories are to be believed, they've done the trekking already and are now in the wise old man phase imparting their experiences to the younger generation.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Unread 03-16-2016, 11:04 PM
graay ghost's Avatar
graay ghost graay ghost is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,480
Re: perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
If they're stories are to be believed, they've done the trekking already and are now in the wise old man phase imparting their experiences to the younger generation.
Is that it? Maybe it's just me but this person sounds quite young.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Unread 03-16-2016, 11:07 PM
conspiracy theorist's Avatar
conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: clearing
Posts: 15,328
Re: perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by graay ghost View Post
Is that it? Maybe it's just me but this person sounds quite young.
In his intro post he claims to have moved to US in the 70s so this person (or persona) is at least 40. I guess they're young at heart
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Unread 03-17-2016, 03:50 AM
noraleader noraleader is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 449
Re: perspective

having watched the sun go down and being dissatisfied with what i had written, i think it is a greater service if i am emphatic. the above topics are all relatively complete.

it is my nature to prosletyse, i don't really enjoy when i become the topic. answer: i am a victim. plain and simple. poor me huh. thread/account crashes and burns.

my erudition and education encouraged me to concern myself with cultural ideas early in life. i am an arcologist, which means life experience with an intentional cultural solution. my "achievement" in life was to "encourage" (along with a team of persistent allies) the developing music software market to produce free resources, so that people who aren't millionaires can "have valid ideas" as well >>> dambusting the headwaters of memetic distribution. power to the fellaheen.

and somewhere in there, or somewhere else, i really pissed someone off (or, was it something else...), and have been subjected to well, ..blackballing, let's call it.. since then. james walbert.. wired magazine.. friend of mine. read it, let your eyes fall out and roll around on the floor some.

so eg. i had said.. "hmm hah 9/11.. there are some complexities, involvement to expressing my perspective here..." indeed. i don't get much sleep. i also don't get to write much that people are going to read. in fact, i don't know what i'm going to get from day to day, and that's how it has been.

mechanistic, institutional cultural "bullying". you won't see it unless you see it. closing in on 11 years. i could pull unbelievable experiences out of my butt all day, i forget a lot of them, because one tries to remember the good things. but they are "unbelievable" like you wouldn't believe, and i wouldn't blame you.


i do have a genuine interest in learning more about astrology, but the convoluted form of day to day existence lends me towards more casual absorbtion, eg. picking up that solar conjuncts are "combust" in a recent post. my interest is of course motivated by duress. who seeks answers when they have the ability to pursue objectives?

to make posts like this one..
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...650#post664650

about epistemology, the nature of knowledge, and what we consider to be fact, are really the greatest manifestation of my function i am permitted nowadays. ask me about terms like "false advocacy," "perception management".

i don't really want to "give myself away," because i have no interest in allowing others to "tell me about myself". i get this all day, all night. so no amusing answers. i'll say.. venus combust in aquarius. this squares jupiter and saturn, which are opposed. virgo ascendant conjunct with moon. tight configurations. it's an incomplete picture, so forget about it for the time being. i have insights beyond astrology.

to me, cultural discourse is "a fine thing in the world," and i do like to read, though mostly, new ideas don't do me much good, as each day i must live like i am about to die. (ask me about suffering! lou hong meng. shaolin temple is no big deal.)

one of the things i wanted to post about eventually, and it's a shame to do it here and be so dramatic, but i think it's good to be *convincing*.. i don't want to get into identity. Targeted Individual is already "famous". i enjoyed "just discussing ideas".

but -

as a dsp author level audio synthesist, i'm "rather skilled." over the last ~decade, as my life falls amazingly apart, it's amazing what is next, and even "after this and this and this" this kind of takes the cake.

because, i can prove it, and, because no one cares even slightly.

check it out -

https://xoxos.bandcamp.com/track/bla...-ultraviolence
"just enjoy this" because i am far beyond the slightest concern for any unappreciative reaction.

six seconds (bandcamp, relatively safe prospect). what you are hearing is a "randomised" process.. stochastic/aleatoric/algorithmic/procedural audio. it is the audio equivalent to throwing a bucket of paint onto a canvas.

those six seconds, right there, are, in my opinion, rather clear and overt, and require very little application to discern what is beign heard.

wouldn't you agree? try it and see. at least, if you are going to gift me with any opinion on the matter, please do so first..

if you find the matter interesting, let's make another thread for discussion in the appropriate forum i have discussed, at length, the method in several places, which can easily be reproduced, and demonstrate that this is indeed absolutely paranormal.

of course, not only do we speak regularly throughout the day, but, i recorded *two entire albums* (it's difficult.. i'm a synthesist, i do anything.. but these recordings.. happen to be "hardcore rap" which a lot of people don't care for.

so, as far as who is a derisible poser "not only am i a victim of organised stalking", i also made two "hardcore rap" albums with higher beings eg. demons, angels, djinn and such (one of them quite famous!)

ask yourself, how you would face the world each day, if you had accomplished such a thing, unexpectedly, and it was a minor concern, because of the nature of other things you deal with, and everyone around you thought it was no big deal, because they have to buy some candy at the store. or something. it's just time for me to stop writing this post.

here's my original closer,
nowadays we are all americans to some extent

*edit* ..reading.. no, tight angles = not combust, my venus is cazimi.

Last edited by noraleader; 03-17-2016 at 04:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 08:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.