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  #1  
Unread 10-29-2015, 09:50 PM
deepminde deepminde is offline
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I don't understand ascendant "thing"

Hello,
Why I don't act like sag asc? Why people don't see me as sag?


Last edited by deepminde; 02-14-2016 at 09:32 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 10-29-2015, 10:04 PM
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Re: I don't understand ascendant "thing"

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepminde View Post

Hello,

I'm Scorpio sun, Virgo moon and Sagittarius asc.

I understand that asc. shows how people you don't know see you but I don't get it.
People don't see me as optimistic, adventures person.

I think they see me as Virgo and Scorpio mix, shy, pessimistic, unsatisfied, vulnerable "thing".
And they often ask me, why are you so shy? well they used to...
Why I don't act like sag asc?
Why people don't see me as sag?
That's because the Rising Sign/1st House main rulerships are as follows


Life, vitality and health.
Stature, colour, complexion, form and shape of body.
Older sources note its influence upon the intellect, the way the mind works, and speech.
In general, the first house represents the focal point for the personality and manner of expression.
As well as describing the physical appearance,
the condition of this house and that of its planetary ruler
indicates the level of personal vitality and strength
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h1.html

Although your ascendant ruler is Jupiter
and therefore
the condition of your natal Jupiter
has an important influence
obviously, not all those with Sagittarius ascendant
have an identical persona
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  #3  
Unread 10-29-2015, 10:18 PM
deepminde deepminde is offline
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Re: I don't understand ascendant "thing"

So what do you mean? That I have appearance and mind of Sagittarius? And I do understand that not all Sagittarius ascendant have an identical persona.

Don't be offended but I often read your posts and you are never direct to the point.
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  #4  
Unread 10-29-2015, 11:02 PM
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Re: I don't understand ascendant "thing"

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepminde View Post

So what do you mean?
That I have appearance and mind of Sagittarius?
And I do understand that not all Sagittarius ascendant have an identical persona.

Don't be offended but I often read your posts and you are never direct to the point.
I'm not offended at your opinion on my comments
you are entitled to your opinion


Each Sagittarius ascendant is different
no two are identical
dependent on the conditon of natal Jupiter
that's because Jupiter is ruler of Sagittarius

also with reference to Ascendant
any planets aspecting ascendant inluence ascendant
so generalisation is unreliable

therefore
to assess the condition of natal Jupiter
check a dignities table such as the following


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #5  
Unread 10-30-2015, 01:02 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: I don't understand ascendant "thing"

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepminde View Post
Hello,

I'm Scorpio sun, Virgo moon and Sagittarius asc.

I understand that asc. shows how people you don't know see you but I don't get it. People don't see me as optimistic, adventures, friendly, easy person. I think they see me as Virgo and Scorpio mix, shy, pessimistic, unsatisfied, vulnerable "thing". And they often ask me, why are you so shy? well they used to... Why I don't act like sag asc? Why people don't see me as sag?
The Ascending sign isn't only about how people see you; it's more about the window through which you view the outer world.

It's true that Sagittarius CAN come across as an optimistic and trusting being, yet much depends upon how and where the ruler of the Ascending sign is situated. In your case Jupiter is in Leo (good) where its enthusiastic effervescence and vitality for life can overflow. Yet it is in the 8th house where it may well 'inwardly shine' but doesn't particularly outwardly express itself as it might do in any other (open) house. ( A 12th house Mercury in Sag. can add to this).
Jupiter is also square a natal Sun in Scorpio. The combination could be associated with a lack of trust in other people. Such a person might prefer to keep one's own counsel rather than share how deeply one feels about situations undergone, even if such situations might be exaggerated as Jupiter is inclined to do.

A Moon in Virgo can show an automatic timidity and shyness of nature, and makes only soft aspects. It could well be that a Sag. Ascendant can help such a Moon nature to become more outgoing in expressing its views.
Mercury might feel it doesn't have much to verbally impart, yet it can pick up a lot by listening to others which, in turn, through Jupiter will further develop and expand (Sagittarius) its mind.

Moon is in the 9th house, which has associations with Sagittarius and Jupiter. There can be a link to foreign, cultural, belief patterns. What might be noticed in a Sag. Ascendant is this difference. One might be noticed for their 'exotic', 'cultural', 'foreign' features, or perhaps perceive this difference about themselves in comparison to others. It could well be a feature that others find very attractive and are drawn to.

When you begin to become aware of how your Jupiter works for you, you'll then become more aware of what's behind the window of your Ascending sign.
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  #6  
Unread 10-30-2015, 03:21 AM
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Re: I don't understand ascendant "thing"

I guess JA wants you to figure it out yourself and gives you the resources to do so.

Here is what I'm getting from him:

*Sag ruler, asc, is Jupiter , in 8th and in terms of Saturn and in decanate of Jupiter

*Mercury conjunct the ASC

*Mercury and Asc in Jupiter's terms and his own decanate.

This isnt horary and I don't know any trad techniques using the first house so, JupiterAsc, explain !!
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  #7  
Unread 10-30-2015, 04:42 AM
muchacho muchacho is offline
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Re: I don't understand ascendant "thing"

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepminde View Post
Hello,

I'm Scorpio sun, Virgo moon and Sagittarius asc.

I understand that asc. shows how people you don't know see you but I don't get it. People don't see me as optimistic, adventures, friendly, easy person. I think they see me as Virgo and Scorpio mix, shy, pessimistic, unsatisfied, vulnerable "thing". And they often ask me, why are you so shy? well they used to... Why I don't act like sag asc? Why people don't see me as sag?
It depends on who you are asking and what kind of relationship you have with them. If you are asking people that are really close to you, those who know you in private, they will be more familiar with your Moon sign. People at work or school will probably more familiar with your Sun sign. And random people, those you only know on a superficial level will be more familiar with your rising sign.

So, pay attention to who sees you as a Virgo (Moon) and who sees you as a Scorpio (Sun) and you my see a connection.
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  #8  
Unread 10-30-2015, 04:51 AM
muchacho muchacho is offline
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Re: I don't understand ascendant "thing"

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepminde View Post
So what do you mean? That I have appearance and mind of Sagittarius? And I do understand that not all Sagittarius ascendant have an identical persona.

Don't be offended but I often read your posts and you are never direct to the point.
She is saying that just looking at the rising sign isn't enough, you have to also take the ruler of the rising sign and its placement into account. And the ruler of your rising sign is Jupiter which is located in your 8th House. A Sagittarius rising with its ruler in the 8th will show a different attitude/persona than let's say a Sagittarius rising with its ruler in the 5th. So there are many types of Sagittarius rising people.
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  #9  
Unread 10-30-2015, 01:37 PM
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Re: I don't understand ascendant "thing"

Quote:
Originally Posted by muchacho View Post

She is saying that just looking at the rising sign isn't enough,
you have to also take the ruler of the rising sign and its placement into account.
And the ruler of your rising sign is Jupiter which is located in your 8th House.

A Sagittarius rising with its ruler in the 8th will show a different attitude/persona than
let's say a Sagittarius rising with its ruler in the 5th.

So there are many types of Sagittarius rising people.
Exactly - generalising and expecting "all Sagittarius rising people" to have same attitude/persona
is clearly an unreliable "method"
as evidenced by the fact that the OP is puzzled by "not being seen as adventurous and optimistic"
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #10  
Unread 10-30-2015, 01:45 PM
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Re: I don't understand ascendant "thing"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post

I guess JA wants you to figure it out yourself and gives you the resources to do so.
Well ours IS an astrological learning forum
because members wish to practice skills

and
many of us members have little or no astrological knowledge
so it's the luck of the draw regarding readings
we're all practicing and so offering our readings for free

- no member has time to post complete professional readings
these are costly
because
professional readings take time to assess

unlike "one-size-fits-all-astrology" aka "cookbook" astrology
consisting of computer software generated "readings"

basically
new members gain info on how to practice reading their own charts
and join the merry throng giving free practice readings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
Here is what I'm getting from him:

*Sag ruler, asc, is Jupiter , in 8th and in terms of Saturn and in decanate of Jupiter
Jupiter is also in the SIGN of Leo
disposited by Sun


natal Sun is Scorpio, ruler Mars
and so on and so forth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post

*Mercury conjunct the ASC

*Mercury and Asc in Jupiter's terms and his own decanate.

This isnt horary and I don't know any trad techniques using the first house so, JupiterAsc, explain !!
Mercury conj ascendant oposes 7th house Gemini Mars

clearly there are MULTIPLE influences
that require assessment
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #11  
Unread 10-30-2015, 11:07 PM
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Re: I don't understand ascendant "thing"

So what's the final dispositor in this chart ?
Saturn is in her own house.
It seems to loop from to Mercury and Mars .

Please correct me if I'm wrong lol.
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Unread 10-30-2015, 11:53 PM
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Re: I don't understand ascendant "thing"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post

So what's the final dispositor in this chart ?
Saturn is in her own house.
It seems to loop from to Mercury and Mars .

Please correct me if I'm wrong lol
.
For those interested:
ALMUTEM FIGURIS http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49000

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post

Almutem Figuris is an old doctrine
where one planet
according to certain calculations applied,
receives the honors to be the Ruler
or
Lord of the Chart.


Robert Zoler had applied the therm AlmuteM instead of AlmuteN in order to differentiate the Lord of the Chart from the Lord of certain house or place in the natal chart such as Almuten Domus (Ruler of a House).

The word Almutes is an Arabian word which means 'Winner'.
Because, the planet is the Winner of all the 'life giving' places. Or the places which are most sensible and important in the natal figure.

The method which we'll use here I call Ezra/Zoller method.
Arabian Astrologer Ibn Ezra (1089 — 1164) was the first (as far as we at this moment are aware) to explicitely wrote about calculating the Almutem Figuris.

In his writings Zoller trace the beginnings of this Almutem Figuris and he found it in the writings of Iambichus (c. 245–c. 325) who was Syrian neo-platonic philosopher who wrote also about Astrology in his writings.
Iambicus in his work "Theurgy or on the mysteries of Egypt" speaks about the thing how one can change his fate. He speaks that he can do that through Theurgy and through personal relationship with the Lord of the Geniture of which he (Iambichus) only says that can be known through Astrology, but he didn't explained the method.
Zoller, tracing back the Ibn Ezra's ancestry, through the Sabaeans and his teachers (Mashallah and other) all the way to the first centuries where this doctrine was thought. Because of that line Zoller thinks that the Lord of the Geniture of which Iambichus speaks in his writings is in fact the Almutem Figuris of the Ibn Ezra.

Iambichus speaks (through the name of Porphyry) about the Peculiar Daimon, that is some kind of an Guardian Angel and it is conected to the personal soul but its not the same
Here's what Iambichus says in his Theurgy:
This [daimon] therefore is present as an exemplar before the souls descend into the realm of generated existence. As soon as the soul chooses him for leader the [daimon] immediately comes into charge of completing of its vital endowments and when it descends into the body it unites with the body and becomes the guardian of it common living principle. He likewise directs the the private life of the soul and
whatever the conclusions we may arrive at by inference and reasoning he himself imparts to us the principles."


Zoller about the Almutem Figuris says that it is equally as powerful as all the other planets taken together."

Benjamin Dykes (great student of Zoller) says about Almutem Figuris:
"Almutem Figuris, a powerful planet in the natal figure whose spirit or angel acts as the native's special link to the Divine. The Almutem Figuris is a spiritual astrological delineation, similar to but not the same as Lilly's the "Lord of the Geniture." But like Lilly (and Plato), the Almutem Figuris was taken to affect the native's thoughts, beliefs and character. Spiritual enlightenment can demand that we open our eyes to this particular planet and use it to access the Divine. Significantly, this is a function that many modern astrologers now attribute to the sun sign." (In his article on Happiness).

The method of calculation

1. Find the Essential Dignities (the 5 dignities, apply 3 points to all 3 triplicity rulers), in the Degree of the:
- Sun
- Moon
- Ascendant
- Part of Fortune
- Syzygy (the prenatal lunation, the one that came last, i.e. after which the birth follows - New or Full Moon).

2. Add 7 points for the Day ruler and 6 points to the Hour ruler.

3. Add accidental dignities scores.

For the planet in 1st house you add 12 points.
10th house = 11 points
7th house = 10
4th house = 9
11th = 8
5th = 7
2nd = 6
9th = 5
8th = 4
3rd = 3
12th = 2
6th = 1

The planet which has most points in the aforesaid places is the Almutem Figuris of the chart!

Don't forget to apply the 5 degrees ruler for the planet near the cusp of the houses. For example, if Saturn is at 15 Scorpio in 4th, but the 5th house cusp is at 19 Scorpio, you will calculate that Saturn already in the 5th, and you will give him 7 points instead of 9 as he would took if he was in 4th house. This can make big difference.

The free traditional astrology software - Morinus (google it), calcualte the Almutem Figuris. You can find this option by typing F3. But I should warn you that in that calculation is included some adding of points according to the planets phases. Zoller did not mention any kind of phases calculation so at this moment I'm not aware why the author of the software did included that.

But the best way and more enjoyable is to calculate it with your own hand. You will be familiar with the chart more deeply if you do this calculations with your own hand as the older astrologers did.
And if you must use the Morinus software than subtract the phases scores and you will get the Almutem Figuris right. All else is the same calculation as the Ezra/Zoller method.

Zoller gives short discriptions for every planet being Almutem Figuris:

Sun:
"If the Almuten figuris is the Sun, the native will want to lead, express his creative power and be recognized."

Moon:
"If the Moon, s/he will want to care for, be cared for, eat and make love, dream"

Mercury:
"If it is Mercury, s/he will be diligent in the sciences, business and communications"

Venus:
"Id it is Venus s/he will be a lover of beauty, of music, of men and women etc."

Mars:
"If it is Mars, s/he will fight in order to dominate"

Jupiter:
"If it is Jupiter, s/he will philosophize and teach"

Saturn:
"If it is Saturn he will retire from society, investigate hidden things and suffer adversity.""
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  #13  
Unread 10-31-2015, 12:34 AM
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Bunraku Bunraku is offline
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Re: I don't understand ascendant "thing"

Excelent. Thanks a ton m8
Let me try it on her chart later!
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  #14  
Unread 11-30-2015, 08:43 PM
deepminde deepminde is offline
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Re: I don't understand ascendant "thing"

So, I guess 1st house ruler Sagittarius in 8th house means I look secretive to strangers?

Last edited by deepminde; 12-01-2015 at 07:58 PM.
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