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  #1  
Unread 10-28-2007, 07:33 PM
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Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

I felt it appropriate to share with users here who are interested in more of a traditional approach to the Head & Tail of the Dragon (also called the Lunar Nodes) a link to a blog article of mine. I typically dont include interpretations in my works but because the Nodes are quite obscure their meanings are sometimes difficult to conclude so I have included them just to give other students an idea of their meaning in certain Houses. I hope some of you find this enlightening.

http://a-astrology.blogspot.com/

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Unread 10-28-2007, 07:45 PM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

Quote:
The Head of the Dragon in the twelfth, imports many enemies unto the Native; subjects him to penury and servitude : it fortunates him in great beasts.

The Dragon’s Tail in the sixth House, shows that the Native shall be afflicted with many mischievous diseases; and crossed, plagued, and perplexed with evil conditioned servants.
Perhaps I shouldn't have read this...

The traditional approach is very interesting, though. Thanks, astro.teacher

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Unread 10-29-2007, 07:07 PM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

Remember that the fortunate state of the Lord of the 12th and Planets in the 12th actually AID secret enemies (and the same with the 7th for public enemies). The North Node being a point of benevolence, actually aids your secret enemies because this is their House. The more that the 12th (or 7th) house is debilitated, the more your enemies are debilitated. The Head acts as Jupiter dignified would and the Tail acts as Saturn debilitated would. Before making a judgment though I would look to see the state of the Lord of the 12th and 6th Houses. If the 12th Lord is weak, you can have all the enemies in the world but they will be weak (especially if the Lord of the Ascendant is more dignified and stronger) and have no power over you. If the 6th Lord is strong, you will be fairly preserved from the influence of the South Node over your body.

This is why I believe a lot of people look down at traditional interpretations; they dont read the entire situation. In Modern Astrology its simple Planet in House means this. In Traditional Astrology its a lot more complex, you need to understand the other influences in the chart as well to get an accurate interpretation (which is why I rarely give interpretations alone).
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Unread 10-29-2007, 10:56 PM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

could you please explain this one to me:

"The Tail of the Dragon in the twelfth of a Nativity, denotes many oppressions unto the Enemies of the Native; yet the Native rarely escapes prejudice thereby : he is prejudiced by dealing in great cattle."

thanks
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Unread 10-29-2007, 11:27 PM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

Certainly,

Quote:
denotes many oppressions unto the Enemies of the Native
This basically says your secret enemies will meet with difficulties and obstructions (especially with matters relating against you). For example if they were to tell a lie about you, it would most likely come back and smack them in the face as well.

Quote:
yet the Native rarely escapes prejudice thereby
In this case (using the example above) it states you will still be hurt by the lies spread about you. Which means if someone were to tell lies about you, not only would it hit the liar in the face but also damage your reputation as well simply because it was said, even if the liar was proved as such. People will judge you on what your secret enemies state rather than the truth.

Does that help?
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Unread 10-30-2007, 12:27 AM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

Quote:
Remember that the fortunate state of the Lord of the 12th and Planets in the 12th actually AID secret enemies (and the same with the 7th for public enemies). The North Node being a point of benevolence, actually aids your secret enemies because this is their House. The more that the 12th (or 7th) house is debilitated, the more your enemies are debilitated. The Head acts as Jupiter dignified would and the Tail acts as Saturn debilitated would. Before making a judgment though I would look to see the state of the Lord of the 12th and 6th Houses. If the 12th Lord is weak, you can have all the enemies in the world but they will be weak (especially if the Lord of the Ascendant is more dignified and stronger) and have no power over you. If the 6th Lord is strong, you will be fairly preserved from the influence of the South Node over your body.
Aquarius is the sign on my twelfth house cusp, which makes tenth house Saturn in Capricorn its traditional ruler or lord. I don't think Saturn gets much more dignified than that--but if I have a Libra Descendant, the lord of my seventh house is debilitated in Aries.

Does this suggest that my hidden enemies are strong and my known enemies are weak?

The lord of my sixth house is the Sun, which is exalted in my first house in Aries. At least I shouldn't have to worry as much about the "mischievous diseases"...

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Unread 10-30-2007, 03:07 AM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

Quote:
Does this suggest that my hidden enemies are strong and my known enemies are weak?
From what you said yes thats what that would interpret as. However dont just go on Essential dignity alone, consider Accidental as well. Also if you want to see who is more powerful you or your enemies you need to look at the Lord of the Ascendant as well. If the Lord of the Ascendant is more dignified than the Lord of the 7th or 12th you will be more powerful than your enemies. Also look at the relationship between both Lords (Asc. & 12th/7th).

Follow this dignity/debilty chart - http://www.antiquus-astrology.com/Chap2-8.html

Quote:
Does this suggest that my hidden enemies are strong and my known enemies are weak?
In comparison to each other yes, in comparison to you that is only determined by the Lord of the Ascendant.

Quote:
The lord of my sixth house is the Sun, which is exalted in my first house in Aries. At least I shouldn't have to worry as much about the "mischievous diseases"...
Yes that does abate much of the maliciousness.
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Unread 10-30-2007, 10:37 AM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

Hello Aaron! Thank you very much for all the links. Nice website!
I have a question regarding the Nodes . When they are positioned very near the next cusp, do you regard them also, like planets, as being in the next house?
Then there is a bit of a contradiction found in the position of the Nodes in 6 and 12. When North Node falls in 6, according to the antique rules, the native will have good and faithful, honest servants and portends health of body and a good constitution or that very few diseases shall assault the Native.
OK, now, when the South Node is very close to the cusp of the 1st house, it says: Always mischief, trouble, perplexity of both body and mind, continual dolor , scandals, loss, sorrow etc.etc.
If close to the Asc. it imports but short life. (what do you/we consider short?)
So in this case the Nodes give good health as well as perplexity of body and mind at the same time? A short life due to bad health? or could it mean through accident?

My NorthNode lies at 2° Gemini in the 7th, SouthNode therefore 2° Saggitarius and probably very close to my Asc. which would be between 28° Scorpio and 2° Saggitarius, probably around 0° something in Sag.(we are working on that one).
So I guess my life will be short (oh oh!).

So, to come back to that South Node in the 1st. I actually have had a great life, up till now had nobody in the family die (and I am not young anymore) and the only sorrow was my divorce. I did not even feel sad when my parents died, I just felt it was a relief for them and was at peace with that. Never any scandals or calumnies. Could this then be because I have my Part of Fortune at 3° and thus in conjunction with the NorthNode? And how would you interprete it if the POF would be conjunct the South Node? Would it diminish the "malicious influence" of the South Node or would the Node take the "Good Luck" away from the POF? It is awful isn't it, I always have questions like that, sorry about that. But I do wonder.....

Curiously, Star.
I find the Moon Nodes still a bit of a mystery to me. But who knows, the short life might be right.
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Unread 10-30-2007, 08:01 PM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

Quote:
When they are positioned very near the next cusp, do you regard them also, like planets, as being in the next house?
Generally no, the Nodes have no rays and therefore no aspect but conjunction. The Ascendant is usually the only exception in this case. However it would be smart to read both Houses and see which is more accurate. This is because your birth time may be off a few minutes and that can shift the Houses into another house and its the best way to find out which House they are truly in.

Quote:
(what do you/we consider short?)
Good question. The Traditional authors had around the same lifespans we do today (their records are full of people who lived up to 120 years old and we see this even in Traditional Astrology books as well). I would be fair to say young would be considered under 30 since 30 was considered "Age" (ie, the peak of life).

Quote:
So in this case the Nodes give good health as well as perplexity of body and mind at the same time? A short life due to bad health? or could it mean through accident?
I think you need to analyze these things seperately. Remember ONE position in Traditional Astrology WONT equal calamity or death (or on the reverse fortune and life). The more indicators you have of a short life, the shorter it will be. If you also had Saturn in the 1st, conjunct the Ascendant, with him being Lord of the 8th and infortunate then I would begin to start worrying but one simple position is just a grain of salt in the salt shaker. Same with the health, if the Lord of the 6th is not dignified, you will have a lot of health problems however because of the placement of the North Node there they will tend to work in your favor. As for the contradiction, that isnt very contradictive because one is saying good health, the other is saying short life. There are many people who have great health but die young. I wouldnt necessarily say accident unless Mars is involved.

Quote:
My NorthNode lies at 2° Gemini in the 7th, SouthNode therefore 2° Saggitarius and probably very close to my Asc.
Very interesting, your Nodes are in their Exaltations which upps their positive influence.

Quote:
So I guess my life will be short (oh oh!).
As I said, depends on multiple factors.

Quote:
Could this then be because I have my Part of Fortune at 3° and thus in conjunction with the NorthNode?
This would influence the North Nodes influence, not the south node.

Quote:
And how would you interprete it if the POF would be conjunct the South Node?
"This imports many backslidings in Estate by clowns, soldiers, fire, and fury of war."

Quote:
Would it diminish the "malicious influence" of the South Node or would the Node take the "Good Luck" away from the POF?
Both. The maliciousness is abated but so is the benevolence.

Quote:
It is awful isn't it, I always have questions like that, sorry about that. But I do wonder....
Questions are always welcome
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Unread 10-30-2007, 08:48 PM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

Hi, I have a few questions somewhat related to your general topic:
What about in synastry? My vertex is exactly conjunct a friend's south node, which is conjunct exactly his Mercury. Any thoughts?

What about the Part of fortune, if it is in the 12th? I've heard it should then be read as the Part of Misfortune. Thanks.
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Unread 10-30-2007, 08:48 PM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

Aaron, you are super! Thanks for going into every nitty gritty question of mine. UFF, I am relieved, 30 years, thank God I passed that long ago. Not so much for myself as I had a good life but more for my children. Believe it or not, they still need me (when does that ever end.??!!).

Quote:
Very interesting, your Nodes are in their Exaltations which upps their positive influence.
Would you believe I never even knew that? Gosh, I am pleasantly surprised.

Once more, many thanks, you have proved yourself (to me anyways) as a good and especially patient teacher!!

Star.
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Unread 10-30-2007, 10:14 PM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

Moondance,

Quote:
What about in synastry? My vertex is exactly conjunct a friend's south node, which is conjunct exactly his Mercury. Any thoughts?
Being a traditional Astrologer I dont follow synastry or vertex's. Although his Mercury conjunct his south node debilitates Mercury the same way Saturn would in this position.

Quote:
What about the Part of fortune, if it is in the 12th? I've heard it should then be read as the Part of Misfortune.
The Part of fortune in the 12th is a give or take placement. Remember positive things in the 12th House aid our secret enemies. So while it may give you fortune in one aspect (lets say imprisonment would be minimal, sorrow abated & etc.) it also brings misfortune by giving your secret enemies this fortune as well. Its very dualistic. This same thing happens in the 7th House as well.

starlink,

Quote:
Thanks for going into every nitty gritty question of mine.
No problem

Quote:
(when does that ever end.??!!)
Ah the joys of children! lol

Quote:
Once more, many thanks, you have proved yourself (to me anyways) as a good and especially patient teacher!!
Astrology has always been my passion so I love to help others with their questions.
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Unread 10-31-2007, 08:16 AM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

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Astrology has always been my passion so I love to help others with their questions.
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I guess we have something in common here!

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Unread 11-28-2007, 05:50 AM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

Astro. Teacher.....

I am quite disturbed by the interpretation of my south node (gem) in the 5th........please can you explain.....I have one child............

LG
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Unread 11-29-2007, 11:08 PM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

LG,
Quote:
I am quite disturbed by the interpretation of my south node (gem) in the 5th........please can you explain.....I have one child............
What exactly would you like explained? It states that the Node will have the greatest effect on your children because of its placement in the 5th. The south node is a point of negativity and destruction (as opposed to the North which is the opposite) and thus your children will be most inflicted with this negativity and destruction, hence the interpretation. However you cannot simply rely on ONE interpretation as the end all of the future of your child. I would heavily suggest expanding your 5th House and interpreting the entire thing (the Lords dignity/debility/placement & etc.) before you make this judgment because a strong lord can very much defeat a minor negative point in a chart. Is there any OTHER indicators of a violent death with regards to the fifth House & etc. If you find the majority (an important word in astrology) indicate a violent death, the node will only reinforce it. If you dont find this, then the node is in the minority and thus so is the probability of that happening in such a way. I hope that helped you understand the context a little more clearly. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

River,

I wouldnt focus too much on Nodes placements over fixed stars since that would give relatively small influence to its behavior. Im sure there are some that believe that non-physical objects can be influenced in a chart but I have yet to see a strong example of the use of this (especially traditionally I dont believe ive read anything that makes a strong case for using these). I cant give you any more opinion than that since I do not use those two points combined. Sorry I cant be more helpful!
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Unread 11-29-2007, 11:11 PM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

Thankyou A.t........i will look into my chart further.
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Unread 11-30-2007, 10:57 AM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

Hello Astroteacher! I was just reading your answer to Liquid Green.(this is for you too!) Could it not also mean that she has to develop certain things regarding the 5th house? Where the North Node is, there we have enough expertise from a former life apparently, where the South Node is, we still have to learn a few things. I personally would interprete the Node as such. Maybe dealing with children, or also her own self-expression, could be difficult and has to be developed in this life. So in Liquid Green's case she has to balance out Personal pleasures (5th house) versus Shared Pleasures (11th), romance (difficult) versus friendship (easy), creative ambitions (difficult) vs. social or humanitarian ambitions. So with this South Node in the 5th she should try to fulfill dreams in a practical way,examine feelings about children, childrearing and procreation. Not using group priorities as an excuse for neglecting her personal goals, developing her own creativity.

In Donna van Toen's book, she states:
A Gemini South Node could say to herself that her day-to-day activities dont leave her any time to dedicate to her hobbies. Usually doing a study is not very liked. Generally, a mental block prevents expansion (Sagitarius North Node). Possible reasons can be environmental restrictions which hindered learning, refusal to take chances, dislike of reading or distrust of any type of indirect communication or an upbringing that encouraged superficiality.
Possible solutions are: take interest in courses, Loosen stifling ties .
Observation: Gemini North Node relies on book learning to replace awareness, with Gemini south Node the tables are turned. Knowledge remains at a very rudimentary level. There can be an "I read it in the Enquirer so it must be true" philosophy. Frequently, Gemini south node relies on rumors, gossip and small talk to form the basis of his or her knowledge College education is looked on with suspicion.

It is only when the Gemini South Node is suddenly thrust into a new environment or routine that he or she becomes aware that something is missing. At that point he or she can tap the -Sagittarius North Node's potential an dexpand his or her knowledge and understanding of the world.

I dont know how the aspects to the South Node are and how the rest of her chart looks, therefore take these explanations not as a definite thing.

Quote:
I wouldnt focus too much on Nodes placements over fixed stars

I am glad you think this also. I dont use stars in natal astrology at all, just a few in horary and the POFortune. It is getting all too much and so irrelevant to the real basics. I have to say this over and over again. The basics are enough to work with and in the case of twins, we can look a bit further at Decanates and Dwads, things like that, but all those stars and points, even Lilith, I just dont look at. Chiron is difficult enough because there is still so little known about. It is all based on curiosity and as we know, that killed the cat!
Cheers, Starlink
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Unread 12-01-2007, 05:27 AM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

Thanks starlink......that is something more i can work with....

I can see in my life where it is a struggle between the head and the tail.......

I feel your comments are more 21st century than the link with the morbid explanation of SN in the 5th, by astro teacher (sorry!)...........to me that sounded like almost a dodgy vedic reading....full of calamity and disaster.......maybe thats what it meant in the past for the neanderthal, but i hope being a somewhat more evolved person than those guys, i can look at the nodes in a more workable way in todays world.....I guess i can only look past those things that give me nothing to work with......and only suggest definite gloom......not all of us with the SN in the 5th , children are going to die violent deaths and have/ cause problems for us....I just dont believe it........

So thanks starlink....sorry astro.teacher, i am sure you have much other wisdom to impart........and i look forward to it!

LG
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Unread 12-01-2007, 05:41 AM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

starlink,

I follow Traditional Astrology and what you are describing is purely a modern interpretation (based on what information or source I do not know) so I cant give anymore opinion on that sorry!
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Unread 12-01-2007, 07:15 PM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

Hello Astro-Teacher,
Just read your notes and this link about the Dragon’s head and tail, which were interesting, thank you.

But I was wondering about Saturn ruling the south node and Jupiter the north, when the north node is in detriment in Sagittarius?

Could you cast any light on this one please?

Thanks,
plan-mo
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Unread 12-01-2007, 08:17 PM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

WOW

I found mine so interesting thank you

The Head of the Dragon in the Ascendant, gives honors, riches, and favors of great and honorable personages, chiefly in church affairs; also a fortunate and powerful life.

amazingly my n node is trine Jupiter and conjunct Saturn, making my south node opposing Saturn (eek!)

The Dragon’s Tail in the seventh, portends many public enemies unto the Native, and many prodigious calumnies, scandals, and disgraces from them; and that constantly : but my author says, it portends (also) their destruction. It declares a cross and unhappy marriage, always brawling and contentions between the Native and his wife; never quiet; continual discontents and murmurings, jealousies, & etc. many times, separations. It denotes also, the death or dissolution of the wife or wives.

Woah... lol
I'm a little apprehensive that my saturn which opposes my south node is also conjunct my moon/venus *gulp*

No wonder my relationships and marriages resemble a war zone
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Unread 12-01-2007, 08:47 PM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

LG,

Quote:
to me that sounded like almost a dodgy vedic reading....full of calamity and disaster.......maybe thats what it meant in the past for the neanderthal, but i hope being a somewhat more evolved person than those guys, i can look at the nodes in a more workable way in todays world
Its unfortunate that some people prefer to ignore the realities of life (which is what Traditional Astroloogy captures) and focus on this fantasy world that everything is good and perfect and there is no death, fighting or anything bad in their life (and then expect Astrology to reinforce this fantasy world for them). I choose to interpret realistically and give people information they can use in their real life rather then give them fluff and ignore the issues they want to know about. Your Nativity tells your life AND death and I see no reason to ignore the latter due to cultural insecurities surrounding the issue of death. You wouldnt call the Weatherman a neanderthal when he predicts a hurricane going over your city (no matter how morbid the results would be) but you can sure use that information to prepare.

Planetmotion
,

Quote:
But I was wondering about Saturn ruling the south node and Jupiter the north, when the north node is in detriment in Sagittarius?
Saturn and Jupiter dont rule the nodes, I was simply saying that their influence is similar to Saturn and Jupiter. Sorry for the confusion.
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Last edited by astro.teacher; 12-01-2007 at 08:52 PM.
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Unread 12-01-2007, 11:07 PM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

astro.teacher......
I think you have me wrong some how....I dont live in a fantasy world at all....i just know that your mind can create things it thinks about....and if i am only thinking about negative things (calamity and disaster) then thats what i know life will bring me.....i mean would you want to spend your time walking aroound wondering if your son (who is the only person in your life that you give a **** about), is going to succumb to a violent death.....what things would he miss out on if i had that in my head all the time......
I am not denying at all what the roots of astrolgoy say....i just have to find a way for that info to be not RULING my life....because for one, my son has his own chart!!!!!!!!!
To begin with, i thought the link was some kind of "mythology" because of the doom and gloom....thats why i asked you to explain in the first place.
But now that your telling me basically that its literal, i want to ask you what good that info does?
Is it a new thing the idea that the stars impel and not compel? because coming across some tradionalist posts i think it seems that the stars energy is set in stone........
perhaps any tradionalists out there would like to give me a reading of my natal.........its actually starting to fascinate me, because i have only been around the PSYCHOLOGICAL bunch really.........My capricornian sun sees the need to study the tradition at its roots, but ya know, my aqua asc, just wants to fine tune it......and no doubt in years to come i will......

Enjoying the debate
LG
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Unread 12-02-2007, 12:49 PM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

Thanks for getting back to me astro-teacher,
Amazing what misreading one word will do, i.e. sent my orbs into a tailspin!
The nodal similarities to Jupiter and Saturn are still very interesting, but where or who does this teaching come from?
Do you know?
Thanks,
plan-mo
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Unread 12-02-2007, 03:21 PM
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Re: Head & Tail of the Dragon (Lunar Nodes)

Hi Astroteacher, You wrote:

Quote:
(based on what information or source I do not know) so I cant give anymore opinion on that sorry!
but I mentioned my source. It is the book of Donna Van Toen, called:"the Astrologers Node Book".. Then, when doing my studies with the Faculty of Astrological studies in London, I had to read about the meaning and interpretation of the Nodes.
The Mean Node is, after long discussions, now used for interpretative purposes. Astrologers Hone and Mayo enlarged on the Hinduistic approach which says that the Head has a Jupiter qualitiy and the Tail a Saturn quality.
Hone and Mayo suggested that the Head indicates the area of life where one could receive benefit without conscious effort and the Tail showed where one needs to give without hope of reward. Zipporah Dobbins considers that they may have to do with talent and with areas of conflict, particularly with emotional problems and that their message often comes via relationships with others. This last theory is supported by Ebertin who sees actually no distinction between the Head and the Tail but sees these points of intersections as stancing for the principle of association. Thus it can be argued that since these points bring together the relationship between Earth-Sun (Ecliptic) and Earth-Moon they represent the intersection and coming together of our Earth-centered relationship to consciousness (Sun) and unconsciousness (Moon). In medical astrology he found that these points seem to relate biologically to hereditary factors, to the autonimic nervous system and to the sub-conscious memory.
In Social and psychological terms Ebertin and his coleagues have observed that the Nodes seem to show contacts with others and how we respond to them. They seem to indicate important family ies, and relationships of all kinds. Ebertin also interprets the Nodes almost exclusively in terms of their aspects (and midpoints).
So basically, the Nodes should not be regarded as separate points; one does not exist without the other. The Nodal Axis is also called by some: "the Path of Destiny" and this is not necessarily a fatalistic point of view, for we make our tomorrows by what we decide today.
The Nodal axis can point to inner conflict about something. The Heas is where spiritual power may be ingested and points to the future, to what we may become, the Tail reflects the past, that which we have already digested. The danger lies therefore in that that the past habits may eventually become our lines of lest resistence, hence the connections with the traditional "Selfundoing", yielding to temptaion or even to evil ways. but the Tail is not evil in itself. through the Head comes all that is a fresh challenge, learn new skills etc. There is a constant pull between the two of them, the stagnation or giving way to our own desires and the struggle to create something that is new or not merely a repetition of the past.
So here with Gemini versus Sagittarius the conflict would involve the mind. Reason and logic versus wisdome, foresight or faith. The signs show the nature of the conflict and the houses show where the gield of battle lies (areas of consciousness). So the 5th -11th shows struggle between both houses. We could have a problem in letting go of our children in order to expand our own creativity. Whatever you create (5th), so also a child, should be given to "the group" (11th). The tail in the 5th could show an unwillingness to part with what has been created.
Cheers, Starlink

Quote:
I believe a lot of people look down at traditional interpretations
I dont look down at all on traditional interpretations and you are right, they do go into far more detail which I find fascinating, but they also reflect the social circumstances from those times which were, face it, far more barbarian and often less psychologically inclined.
Just like astrologers used to say that Saturn was something horrible, we now say that we actually need Saturn in order to learn certain lessons in life. I like that interpretation far better. Learning lessons can also be horrible of course......

I hope this takes some unrealistic fears away from traditional interpretations. Of course we all know that life and death belong together, I really cannot imagine someone not knowing this, but it is also, IMO and with all due respect, unnecessary to just give the realistic side of things without implementing also the psychological one. I am not saying "no" to traditional astrology, but you seem to say "no" to any other form of astrology besides the traditional one. I think we should incorporate both and find a balance between them, old and new.
Cheers, Starlink

Last edited by starlink; 12-02-2007 at 04:10 PM.
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