Do I have a mutable grand cross?

clip11

Well-known member
astro_w2gw_frank.65425.110088 (1).png

And if so, can someone tell me more about it?
 

waybread

Well-known member
Some people would probably count chart angles or other sensitive points. I think the danger is that you can start making a chart mean anything you want. Of course, Saturn square ascendant has meaning, but I just wouldn't count it as part of a grand cross.

To me the most striking feature of your chart is all of those planets in your fourth house, and then the squares from Mars-Jupiter.
 

Frisiangal

Well-known member
It's said that the sign on the Ascendant is the window (the manner) through which planets in aspect to it personally look and can express themselves through the personality.
Similarly, the sign on M.C can do the same regarding one's public life.
E.g. Planets in aspect to my my Virgo Asc. express themselves through a discriminative, nitty-gritty, scrutinisingly analytic dot the i's and cross the t's nature.:smile:

From the perspective I take that includes Chiron as a valid object in astro. interpretation, it makes up 3 separate T-squares that are all aspected to Gemini M.C., as well as forming what could be considered as a mutable cross to Virgo Ascendant.

You can think of a grand cross as the sails of the windmill. It sets things such as action (Fire), deeds (Earth), thought (Air), and feelings (Water) in motion to get their energy moving. Virgo Asc. would show the temperamental view one takes when observing what's going on around it. The T-squares can cause friction with each other because of the differentiating temperaments, whereas their working together would be more advantageous.
Virgo Asc. works through the realism of physical evidence; the material proof found that can stir action, deed, thought and feeling.

What makes the T-squares to the angles interesting is that, in the chart provided, ruler of Asc. and M.C. is Mercury; how an individual thinks according to the sign it is in. Yet it isn't in a mutable sign; it's set in stone in the hardest of Earth signs. So seeing things through an alternative eye can be difficult to achieve. With the conjunction to Neptune and Sun, the physical boundaries an individual sets itself can lose their defining quality (no aspects to Ascendant)
Add that it is Chiron that 'joins' all 3 T-squares, and is the only object in an intangibly mental communciation sign, and it could be this that causes any issues the individual faces. Does it refer to a flexibility or an inflexibility of movement in its observational tendencies, that can interfere in how it inter-relates with others?
 

wan

Well-known member
What waybread said. Also, Chiron is not a real planet, some people do not count it when trying to determine things like grand-crosses, grand trines etc.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Also some people (like Clip11 and me) have chart angles that are basically square to one another, so that sort of stacks the deck if we're looking for a grand cross.
 
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