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  #1  
Unread 03-02-2020, 05:26 PM
Eric traveller Eric traveller is offline
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Lilith Conjunct Chiron??? how valid are these concepts.

What exactly does Lilith conjunct Chiron manifest? Say, both these points are in Gemini, say in the 10th house ??

*And exactly How valid are these as astrological concepts? both Lilith and Chiron; I believe them, but my friend has repeatedly said they are invalid and he is of the Vedic mind slant, he and I got into a debate about exactly what is Lilith; he kept saying that it's the point of the 'center of gravity' between the Moon and Earth. I kept saying it's the apogee of the moon - which is it??? Are we both correct.


Another question, exactly how difficult and bad is a Mars Square Venus. Woody Allen and Sean Penn both have these aspects and they are both douchebags. Is there any hope for me??? Really though, how difficult is this concept to navigate?


Last edited by Eric traveller; 03-02-2020 at 07:41 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 03-03-2020, 10:13 PM
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Re: Lilith Conjunct Chiron??? how valid are these concepts.

if they're prominent in your chart, it can mean, if someone does something to you that makes you look bad in public, it'll hurt you and you'll want revenge, using words, it can also mean, you want threesome in public and meanwhile thinking about that it might hurt your reputation, it has other meanings of course
anyways, they're small stars, not that important, one shouldn't focus on the small stars, not at beginning of learning anyway
e.g. lilith wants revenge, but if one of the powerful planets (especially the moon) doesn't, then the revenge is not going to happen
mars square venus can mean a lot of things, mars and venus are overrated anyway
if there are solutions, or hope, they're in the chart too, it takes time and effort to figure it out
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  #3  
Unread 03-04-2020, 12:44 AM
Eric traveller Eric traveller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xichuwangwai View Post
if they're prominent in your chart, it can mean, if someone does something to you that makes you look bad in public, it'll hurt you and you'll want revenge, using words, it can also mean, you want threesome in public and meanwhile thinking about that it might hurt your reputation, it has other meanings of course
anyways, they're small stars, not that important, one shouldn't focus on the small stars, not at beginning of learning anyway
e.g. lilith wants revenge, but if one of the powerful planets (especially the moon) doesn't, then the revenge is not going to happen
mars square venus can mean a lot of things, mars and venus are overrated anyway
if there are solutions, or hope, they're in the chart too, it takes time and effort to figure it out
Bad things and humiliation in public have happened to me all of my life. I have that Lilith conjunct Chiron in my 10th house. It's the strongest angular house; are you sure that that's not important? I can tell you right now that Chiron has played a HUGE part in my life. I don't want to get into it. I've recently discovered Lilith and started paying attention to her. I used to ignore it But then I realized I suppressed my Lilith energy. Almost completely these are major gateways into some kind of a deeper initiation. Especially in the 10th angular house. Maybe it's the key to my success and my life. I'm hoping so, I just can't dsmiss these and don't think that these are unimportant. I know people say that but I really don't think so...
Vedic astrology States the Moon is more important than the Sun, Lilith is nothing more than the shadow part of the Moon; and, that has to be powerful.
My Chiron and Llilth are conjunct, in my life these two went together and they were related to my father..
I've recently unlocked Lilith and realize they powerful energy, that I didn't know was there. I'm serious, I have been repressing this all of my life, mostly due to my father. Blocking a part of myself out. No wonder I'm not successful in the public career field. But, I also noticed that I have an infamy in public. Like I don't even do anything, and I have a bad reputation. It just finds me. For example, I posted a chart reading for to have my chart red. I've read about three or four others charts, and still nobody's read mine, even though I gave to others, offered my advice and have been very patient. That's Chiron (wounding) and Lilith (people avoiding and having a bad reputation ) right there. This kind of stuff has happened to me all of my life. And I can't figure out why.
Andfor no reason. It just happens.

And then people will try to tell me, that it's my fault...bla bla. They don't answer me because I "am angry" when I got angry because I was treated this way. Lol. Then, they have it backwards...
But, interestingly enough overseas and in foreign lands it doesn't happen. The opposite is the case. I am treated specially and I'm very well liked by the people. I'm not kidding and not bragging. That is the case. Only, in America has this happened. Hence, why I really dislike and hate my home, and want to get out of here. I've never really liked my home and never felt happy here.
Sorry, I write books...but because I am writer.

I'll try and tone down the length of my writing. I just enjoy writing.

Last edited by Eric traveller; 03-04-2020 at 01:27 AM.
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  #4  
Unread 03-04-2020, 01:09 AM
Eric traveller Eric traveller is offline
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Re: Lilith Conjunct Chiron??? how valid are these concepts.

I guess my question is..how did astrologers discover these.

Did they just find an asteroid and discovered it caused wounding?? That's so weird.

Last edited by Eric traveller; 03-04-2020 at 01:21 AM.
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  #5  
Unread 03-04-2020, 01:47 PM
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Neptunian Rainbow Neptunian Rainbow is offline
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Re: Lilith Conjunct Chiron??? how valid are these concepts.

I personally believe that Lilith and Chiron have a great impact. People who are influenced by them seem to agree. I know someone with Lilith conjunct personal planets in the tenth house. He has issues at the workplace and it makes him very angry.

I have seen many people with a prominent Lilith who tries to help people who are abused/excluded, for example trafficking victims.

Diana Gabaldon who wrote Outlander has Lilith conjunct the Asc and the Moon. The character Claire believes that all people are equally valuable and she wants to help. She states her opinions and uses her knowledge to help, but she is seen as a dangerous witch. There is a strong vibe of Lilith in the story.

I have seen several people with Lilith in harsh aspects to the Sun and the Asc who attacks people with a prominent Lilith. Itīs difficult to understand,
they should just avoid people they donīt like but they behave like the witch hunters in the past. Itīs as if there is a need within them to "hunt" and cause humiliation and suffering in the Lilith person. I believe they get triggered and project their inner issues.

It is possible to improve the situation by doing inner healing. Itīs also important that you surround yourself with people who are right for you. The
"witch hunters" will probably never be you best friends.

Perhaps you should move to another country
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  #6  
Unread 03-04-2020, 02:23 PM
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Opal Opal is offline
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Re: Lilith Conjunct Chiron??? how valid are these concepts.

Chiron and Lilith have a small orb of influence. By that, I mean, how tight is your conjunction? If it is within 1 degree it is valid. If it is within 2 degrees it is weak. Any wider and it is not an aspect. Planets have a wider orb.

I would explain her, Lilith as wanting justice, and equality. She is the first feminist. Misunderstandings and misinterpretations are of her myth. She is admirable. Strength and the ability to stand on her own, against all others.

In the 10th, I would watch pissing off women in the workplace. Especially if she is in tight orb with Chiron, the wounded healer. As for Gemini, you should watch your mouth. Be careful what you say to others in the work place, think carefully, before you speak, rash words, will hurt you.
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  #7  
Unread 03-04-2020, 11:28 PM
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xichuwangwai xichuwangwai is online now
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Re: Lilith Conjunct Chiron??? how valid are these concepts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric traveller View Post
Bad things and humiliation in public have happened to me all of my life. I have that Lilith conjunct Chiron in my 10th house. It's the strongest angular house; are you sure that that's not important? I can tell you right now that Chiron has played a HUGE part in my life. I don't want to get into it. I've recently discovered Lilith and started paying attention to her. I used to ignore it But then I realized I suppressed my Lilith energy. Almost completely these are major gateways into some kind of a deeper initiation. Especially in the 10th angular house. Maybe it's the key to my success and my life. I'm hoping so, I just can't dsmiss these and don't think that these are unimportant. I know people say that but I really don't think so...
Vedic astrology States the Moon is more important than the Sun, Lilith is nothing more than the shadow part of the Moon; and, that has to be powerful.
My Chiron and Llilth are conjunct, in my life these two went together and they were related to my father..
I've recently unlocked Lilith and realize they powerful energy, that I didn't know was there. I'm serious, I have been repressing this all of my life, mostly due to my father. Blocking a part of myself out. No wonder I'm not successful in the public career field. But, I also noticed that I have an infamy in public. Like I don't even do anything, and I have a bad reputation. It just finds me. For example, I posted a chart reading for to have my chart red. I've read about three or four others charts, and still nobody's read mine, even though I gave to others, offered my advice and have been very patient. That's Chiron (wounding) and Lilith (people avoiding and having a bad reputation ) right there. This kind of stuff has happened to me all of my life. And I can't figure out why.
Andfor no reason. It just happens.

And then people will try to tell me, that it's my fault...bla bla. They don't answer me because I "am angry" when I got angry because I was treated this way. Lol. Then, they have it backwards...
But, interestingly enough overseas and in foreign lands it doesn't happen. The opposite is the case. I am treated specially and I'm very well liked by the people. I'm not kidding and not bragging. That is the case. Only, in America has this happened. Hence, why I really dislike and hate my home, and want to get out of here. I've never really liked my home and never felt happy here.
Sorry, I write books...but because I am writer.

I'll try and tone down the length of my writing. I just enjoy writing.
first of all, relax
second of all, when I said "they're not that important", I was talking about lilith (or chiron, or other small stars) alone, small stars alone are not as important as the planets alone. but, if lilith connected to other planets, forming like, a great cross, or at least a t-square, of course it should be taken seriously
third of all, this happens very ofter: one thinks it's star x to blame when it's actually star y
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  #8  
Unread 03-05-2020, 04:35 PM
Eric traveller Eric traveller is offline
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Chill, I was saying it emphatically, not angrily.
relax please...
It's a tight orb within a degree. Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by xichuwangwai View Post
first of all, relax
second of all, when I said "they're not that important", I was talking about lilith (or chiron, or other small stars) alone, small stars alone are not as important as the planets alone. but, if lilith connected to other planets, forming like, a great cross, or at least a t-square, of course it should be taken seriously
third of all, this happens very ofter: one thinks it's star x to blame when it's actually star y
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  #9  
Unread 03-05-2020, 04:42 PM
Eric traveller Eric traveller is offline
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Thank you for this, I agree with you completely, I don't think that these being "small points" at all makes them insignificant, but possibly maybe even more powerful, and potent. Big things come in small packages. Yoda was small and the letter Yod in the Hebrew alphabet is the smallest letter, yet it is the most powerful. Besides, being affiliated with the Moon, the moon may be the most powerful planet in astrology.
I agree with you for the most part,and I agree with this. I was just wondering how did scientists, when they discovered it - sync it with the astrology charts. How did they discover there was wounding in a certain part, and associate it with a specific planetary body or point of space. The process fascinates me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptunian Rainbow View Post
I personally believe that Lilith and Chiron have a great impact. People who are influenced by them seem to agree. I know someone with Lilith conjunct personal planets in the tenth house. He has issues at the workplace and it makes him very angry.

I have seen many people with a prominent Lilith who tries to help people who are abused/excluded, for example trafficking victims.

Diana Gabaldon who wrote Outlander has Lilith conjunct the Asc and the Moon. The character Claire believes that all people are equally valuable and she wants to help. She states her opinions and uses her knowledge to help, but she is seen as a dangerous witch. There is a strong vibe of Lilith in the story.

I have seen several people with Lilith in harsh aspects to the Sun and the Asc who attacks people with a prominent Lilith. Itīs difficult to understand,
they should just avoid people they donīt like but they behave like the witch hunters in the past. Itīs as if there is a need within them to "hunt" and cause humiliation and suffering in the Lilith person. I believe they get triggered and project their inner issues.

It is possible to improve the situation by doing inner healing. Itīs also important that you surround yourself with people who are right for you. The
"witch hunters" will probably never be you best friends.

Perhaps you should move to another country
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  #10  
Unread 03-05-2020, 04:44 PM
Eric traveller Eric traveller is offline
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Re: Lilith Conjunct Chiron??? how valid are these concepts.

Thank you.
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  #11  
Unread 03-06-2020, 10:08 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Lilith Conjunct Chiron??? how valid are these concepts.

Your chart is shown in a previous thread.

I believe a large part of an answer to your question is whether you want to learn astrology as an entire craft form that can be used to guide life, OR just learn about yourself through using astrological symbolism.

Like you I have a Chiron-Lilith conjunction; on the same degree in the 12th house and closely conjunct Virgo Ascendant. With a mutable sign there are proverbially more ways than one to kill a cat, and more than one road that leads to Rome). It's the most heavily aspected position in my chart, including a close square with natal Uranus conjunct M.C.
(Also share a 5th Moon in Capricorn).

I had been studying astrology for almost 8 years, thought to have a grasp on astro. symbolism, EXCEPT for one thing. I could find no answer to 'where does the inner pain come from?' That which isn't physical of nature, yet cuts like a knife within to what could almost be described as the very heart and/or soul of a person. I learnt of Chiron through the med. astro. school I attended and believed to have got my answer. Chiron represetns the pain we create within ourselves and live with, as a result of our attitude towards other people's actions towards/against us.

It took another 10 years before I understood I only had part of the answer and not all of it. It coincided with the year that I learnt of the astrological non-physical point MEAN Black Moon Lilith. One might say it answered the question, 'What is the point of everything?' A light went on (Uranus?) and I came to the realisation that my self image was that which other people had placed upon me. I wasn't what they considered to be normal … read 'socially acceptable to them' ... and that hurt!!! I had to stop blaming myself and admit that my faulty reasoning had allowed it to happen.

In your post, you tend to place blame upon a paternal relationship, yet an astrologer would probably say from chart aspects with Sun (hero) or Saturn (authorative disciplinarian) that the relationship … if it physically existed … wasn't problematic as such. Okay, 'affection and attention seeking' (Sun semi-square Venus) may not have been what a Leo ego influence would desire, and a stress aspect with natal Moon in Cap. may may feel that he was not there for you. Yet with a trine to Uranus in 4th house, the paternal genes are strongly evident. You may be more like your father in more ways than you have ever cared to admit (MEAN BML) to yourself ( = self denial.).
Once BML surfaces from within it desires total honesty about one's self in order to work as it could, would, and should.

I would argue that BML in a chart is not always negative of nature.
Observation has shown it to also represent an inner natural talent waiting to express itself, whether that's an economic wonder, sportsman, or hairdresser. Chiron is strongly associated with shamanism; also with the healing capacity within one's self. The first step is to understand and heal one's self of the pain endured. Only then can one understand the pain of others.

Chiron-MEAN BML in Gemini opp. Uranus can become the voice that can see future situations from alternate perspectives than what may be socially accepted. It is part of a configuration with Jupiter in Pisces comprising of two sesquiquadrates (135*) joined at each end of the natal square. Natal Pluto in its own sign is at the apex of the configuration.
A second similar configuration puts Jupiter in 7th at apex of Mercuru-Pluto square.
That's 2 mighty powerful aspects to have when allowed to work at their most positive.

In my case my Chiron-MEAN BML-Uranus alternate perspective is the holistic approach within astrological symbolism that, unless inherent at birth, physical dis-orders are too often psychsomatic of nature. Deal with the issue and prevent the complaint turning physical. It's still very much 'music of the future', yet who knows what another 30-50 years of thought will see occuring.
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  #12  
Unread 03-07-2020, 05:24 PM
Eric traveller Eric traveller is offline
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Re: Lilith Conjunct Chiron??? how valid are these concepts.

Medical astrology is interesting, I'd heard about that; isn't that what Hippocrates meant when he said "you'd be a fool to practice medicine without an awareness of the heavens?" I'd also heard something about how the cycle of the Moon can dictate when to have surgery. Like you should never have a surgery on a Waxing moon, but a waning one. Something to do with shedding off energy, not building energy. It will take much shorter to heal when the Moon's in a shedding cycle.
Makes sense. I'd want to get into this - I'd always had a fascination with anatomy and briefly wanted to become a doctor for a time. I'd Majored in Science and BIO. Unfortunately, Medical astrology doesn't have a place in our Mainstream "allopathic system," there is no room for anything.

I agree with you, in that it's not my father's fault. I just say that because in a layered context; it is. But it has to do with me. My father was just the instrument of that way. I don't blame him and I realize it goes deeper. But it's hard to take oppression/abuse for so long and not blame somebody that goes completely against you in every way almost all of your life; he was a piece in a chess puzzle sent by the Universe in an integral part of my life and formation. I realize that and I'm trying hard to differentiate the two; he also had Chiron conjunct his ascendant-so he had a lot to deal with, and I feel like that somehow went and transferred into my Midheaven, somehow. Interestingly, my brother has his Chiron in his sixth house of his chores and activities. Dad was always trying to get him to "do stuff" and to stay focused and on target...and he wouldn't or couldn't.

*I am still working on my communication; as, in my chart -communication is probably the most important part of Me. It's how I interact and express myself. Especially with the stifled Cap. Moon and the aspects you've previously mentioned. *(Which are very Interesting.) And, yet I struggle with it so. I am ruled by Mercury and use lots of words and generally get lost in linear logical activity. Words and vocabulary, to sacrificing everything else. The deeper meaning beneath it which I realize I can't reach...and am missing out. This is one reason I like Lilith. I want that. But sometimes my message gets lost in all of these words, the logic is linear and horizontal and with no depth. No 3d. And with Chiron wounding I feel the message comes across garbled. I notice I mostly struggle with this in public contexts when I am trying to talk to somebody on social media or something like a dating website, or on Facebook. It is disastrous. I stumble over my words and myself. And, it never comes out right....I ALWAYS struggle with this, and it never, ever comes out right. lol And my Chiron wounding is in Gemini. Ironic, I'd like to be able to tone it down, and get my message across more clearly, and directly...and still be able to convey the "Meat of the message."
And not sound cold, or too wordy and intellectual.


That is my goal.
Thank you, and I'm still trying to understand all of this beautiful wisdom that you've shared. Thank you so much. I am really trying hard to work hard on myself and trying to understand the Universe, astrology and my Spiritual place in it as hard as I freaking can. I'm going full overdrive. Not really, I've been working diligently and thoroughly at this as hard as I can, almost everyday immersing myself into astrology. Things are starting to become clearer and make more sense. And I sense that doors are starting to 'open'...in a way.
Thank you for all of your extremely helpful and incredible insight. I totally agree that Lilith is repression, and represents a huge part of Chiron repression; that's why it's an integral piece for me, and I couldn't heal my Chiron without it or even gain a deeper understanding of the world, and...my emotions.
I'm starting to begin to see this clearly. It's just so much to keep in my head.

On a side note: I am still trying to get the "QUOTE" function to work on the forum. I had previously "quoted" your texts and responded accordingly in a thoughtful and careful manner but the stupid form wouldn't post it. It said something about: you have to type out more than 10 words. I'm definitely going to read over and contemplate what you've said to me; it is very insightful, thoughtful, deep; and penetratingly concise.
Thank you very much.

Last edited by Eric traveller; 03-07-2020 at 06:04 PM.
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  #13  
Unread 03-08-2020, 05:32 AM
Eric traveller Eric traveller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptunian Rainbow View Post
I personally believe that Lilith and Chiron have a great impact. People who are influenced by them seem to agree. I know someone with Lilith conjunct personal planets in the tenth house. He has issues at the workplace and it makes him very angry.

I have seen many people with a prominent Lilith who tries to help people who are abused/excluded, for example trafficking victims.

Diana Gabaldon who wrote Outlander has Lilith conjunct the Asc and the Moon. The character Claire believes that all people are equally valuable and she wants to help. She states her opinions and uses her knowledge to help, but she is seen as a dangerous witch. There is a strong vibe of Lilith in the story.

I have seen several people with Lilith in harsh aspects to the Sun and the Asc who attacks people with a prominent Lilith. Itīs difficult to understand,
they should just avoid people they donīt like but they behave like the witch hunters in the past. Itīs as if there is a need within them to "hunt" and cause humiliation and suffering in the Lilith person. I believe they get triggered and project their inner issues.

It is possible to improve the situation by doing inner healing. Itīs also important that you surround yourself with people who are right for you. The
"witch hunters" will probably never be you best friends.

Perhaps you should move to another country
This is gold, thank you for posting this.
I am not thinking of a few off the top of my head.
Thank you,the thing is if you have Lilith you're going to be provocative, even if you don't mean it, and if it's reppressed, and you don't feel it, you're still going to be provocative and come across to others that way anyway. It *****. So you might just be yourself.
That's the way I'm seeing it.

Last edited by Eric traveller; 03-10-2020 at 08:21 PM.
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  #14  
Unread 03-11-2020, 10:45 AM
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Neptunian Rainbow Neptunian Rainbow is offline
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Totally agree with you! It’s as if people can sense suppressed energy and in my experience things get worse when I try to suppress myself and be whatever people want me to be.

With Chiron in the tenth one suspects family issues and pressure from the parents to be successful/gain status. A feeling that you will never be good enough.

You need to find out what you truly want. It could for example be something related to healthy leadership, teaching, healing, helping, giving people truths that may be uncomfortable. The connection with Lilith could be related to helping people with their health or helping people who are unfairly treated, trying to create more equality and respect and less abuse between people.

When we are wounded and feel insecure, we need to step by step try to overcome it, gain strength and do something good. Some people just push away the inner insecurity and develop an arrogant and selfish personality. That is not the best path. It’s also important to not provoke just for the sake of provoking due to feeling resentment towards people. All planets/asteroids/aspects can be expressed in good or bad ways.

I imagine that having both Chiron and Lilith makes it very difficult for you to feel rejected/criticized publicly and by workplaces. Unfortunately, these placements will bring challenges from other people even if you are behaving very well. But the situation can gradually improve.

People with Chiron on the MC are usually late bloomers, it takes awhile to find the right job. Chiron and Lilith here does mean that you have a lot of power within you. Your true nature is powerful and you have authority. This is one of the reasons why people react towards you. When people who feel weak and powerless on the inside see someone who has repressed their power, they really enjoy attacking that person.
You need to try to connect to your power and channel it in a good way. Be authentic and have integrity. Have those things as a goal, not status. I believe that if you choose that path, you will be able to connect to people who wants to contribute to the world somehow. I don’t believe that status oriented people will ever be a good match for you. In this world, people who are very weak on the inside and who seeks to take as much as they can and bully others, are the ones who reach the top of the hierarchy. However, times are changing. We need a new system and Chiron has the energy of a new type of leadership that has to do with protecting and healing people and the planet instead of exploiting and bullying. The people I have seen with a prominent Chiron who has turned selfish/arrogant, have ended up miserable. It’s as if life won’t give them the “rewards” that some other people get when they walk that path.

Keep in mind that astrology is merely a hobby of mine and that what I say may be wrong!

I like Barbara Hands perspective on Chiron. I recommend you to read her books.
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