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  #1  
Unread 12-26-2018, 07:05 PM
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Having faith

What are you thoughts on how to regain faith in life after a lot of bad experience? I don't mean this in a religious sense, although spirituality definitely cannot be ignored with such a question.

I'm stuck in a negative and destructive thought pattern of believing that whatever choice I make will always be wrong, and no matter what I do things will turn out badly. I can use all the reasoning in the world to combat it. I can continue making decisions and doing things as if I didn't believe this was true, but it makes every single movement an exhausting internal struggle.

In the past, there is always a moment when something changes deep inside, and suddenly I'm able to move with confidence. But this time - this time I don't even trust that. All that was riding on my last most important decision set me up for the fall and I didn't realize it until it was too late. I got everything I worked for, and it turned out to be corrupt and backwards - a betrayal of all I thought it would be.

You'd think I could turn it to a carefree attitude, where no decision really matters, so why not go for whatever you think is right without the pressure that it must be right. Yet, that doesn't work either, and that is where I get lost.

I wondered how, for those that have needed it, you have experienced a reawakening of faith in what you are doing on this planet. Do you have a sense of purpose? How are you sure of it, or does that matter to you? What is it? If you care to share, of course.

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  #2  
Unread 12-27-2018, 04:31 AM
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Re: Having faith

Sorry you've been going through a rough patch.

Would you mind posting your chart with transits? It's hard to target an answer to you personally, otherwise. Also, if you have specific spiritual beliefs, it would be helpful if you shared them. I don't wish to assume too much or too little.

But in the "one size fits all" category, what if there were no right or wrong to get to? Sometimes experiences that seem really rotten at the time, seem to turn out for the best from the perspective of a few years later. Sometimes those repeated hard knocks are the way the universe tells us to get on a different track. We wouldn't change tracks if the old one worked out better.

But yeh-- I took an early retirement from my job in a state of burn-out. Now that I read charts for people, some of them thank me for helping them. I'm much happier and more relaxed since I walked away from a demanding career. (Or was it careerism.)
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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  #3  
Unread 12-27-2018, 12:06 PM
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Re: Having faith

Hi waybread! Everyone relates to this kind of problem differently, and it is very thoughtful that you would not want to make assumptions. I am interested in different perspectives even if they don't directly apply to my situation. It was meant to be an open ended question; whatever the question meant to the person answering.

I attached my chart so you can have some context if that is helpful. Admittedly, career issues have triggered disillusionment (careerism, haha). I've given up on a traditional job after the last attempt.
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  #4  
Unread 12-28-2018, 03:50 AM
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Re: Having faith

Flapjacks, I was struck by how Plutonian some of your OP sounded. Much of it seemed Saturnine (making "wrong" decisions) but words like "corrupt," "betrayal," and "destructive" seem very Plutonian. With sun and moon square Pluto, you know all about not trusting the universe to support you. But, at the same time that Pluto wants a piece of our hide, it also wants us to lose our naivete, so that we develop our ability to weather those hard things that life throws at us from a position of experience and maturity.

With Pluto, you probably won't get your old sense of faith back. In exchange, you get a depth of life experience and realism that makes you stronger.

Anyone beyond a certain age has made mistakes-- big ones. There's no shame in it. But with Mars retrograde and Chiron in the first house, you are probably extra hard on yourself.

I had 3 different employers, but basically the same career for over 30 years. Although I enjoyed many parts of it, I often wondered what my "real" vocation might be.

Now I think there is such a thing as the OK life, the good-enough life.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And well change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #5  
Unread 12-29-2018, 03:41 AM
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Re: Having faith

Having lost my family when I was 14 I never had anyone to call on for help. When I met hard times I lived through them the best I could.

The events precipitating your feelings are not known to us but the aspects indicating them are.

They have been the transits of Saturn conjoining your natal and progressed Neptunes, and recently your Mars and Neptune natal and progressed midpoints. Still to come, it's conjunction with progressed, then natal Mars. Your progressed Moon is about to join the mix. Prepare yourself mentally.

I am trying to inform you, not demoralize you, because you will need to be prepared for Saturn's transit of your relocated MC/IC axis which holds your natal Moon and Sun and will be quickly followed by it's opposition to your natal Mercury.

Your partner will be very involved in all that transpires. Your relocated MC is at 29840'. It is square his natal MC at 20845'. Your relocated MC, natal Sun, Moon, and Mercury will be aspected by Saturn at the same time as his natal MC in 2020.

His chart has also been aspected by transit Saturn recently.

His natal Pluto shows at 314' Libra. In space it was at 18950'.

His progressed Pluto shows at 205' Libra. In space it has been at 18846'.

His natal Mars will feel the triumvirate of Sun, Saturn, and Pluto in January of 2020.

You will be going through the patch together.

Best.
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Last edited by unique_astrology; 12-29-2018 at 03:52 AM.
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  #6  
Unread 12-29-2018, 04:18 AM
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Re: Having faith

No matter what aspects occur in your horoscope I hope your natural inclination (without thinking about it) is to be the best person you can be.

RN TOPEKA - Natal Chart Jan 25 1941, 3:35 am, +6:00 TOPEKA KS, 39N02'54'', 095W40'40''.

Leaving out hard aspects from Mars, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune but showing those from Pluto to every planet and horizon connected angle in my natal. Thinking about what number of challenges may have been faced as I lived through them may speak to your thoughts about your life. Sorry this is all I can contribute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NJFiSwkHyc

Just the conjunctions, squares, and oppositions from Pluto to the planets and angles of my chart.

Plu Opp Sun Tr-Na Sep 7 1941 CST 05Le03' 05Aq03'
Plu Opp Sun Tr-Na Jan 6 1942 CST 05Le03' 05Aq03'
Plu Opp Sun Tr-Na Jul 17 1942 CWT 05Le03' 05Aq03'
Plu Opp Sun Tr-Na Mar 25 1943 CWT 05Le03' 05Aq03'
Plu Opp Sun Tr-Na May 11 1943 CWT 05Le03' 05Aq03'
Plu Sqr Sun Tr-Na Nov 5 1985 CST 05Sc03' 05Aq03'
Plu Sqr Sun Tr-Na Jun 1 1986 CDT 05Sc03' 05Aq03'
Plu Sqr Sun Tr-Na Aug 26 1986 CDT 05Sc03' 05Aq03'

Plu Sqr Mon Tr-Na Oct 11 1975 CDT 09Li28' 09Cp28'
Plu Sqr Mon Tr-Na May 3 1976 CDT 09Li28' 09Cp28'
Plu Sqr Mon Tr-Na Aug 2 1976 CDT 09Li28' 09Cp28'
Plu Cnj Mon Tr-Na Mar 22 2012 CDT 09Cp28' 09Cp28'
Plu Cnj Mon Tr-Na Apr 29 2012 CDT 09Cp28' 09Cp28'
Plu Cnj Mon Tr-Na Jan 5 2013 CST 09Cp28' 09Cp28'
Plu Cnj Mon Tr-Na Aug 5 2013 CDT 09Cp28' 09Cp28'
Plu Cnj Mon Tr-Na Nov 3 2013 CST 09Cp28' 09Cp28'

Plu Opp Mer Tr-Na Oct 2 1947 CST 14Le30' 14Aq30'
Plu Opp Mer Tr-Na Jan 1 1948 CST 14Le30' 14Aq30'
Plu Opp Mer Tr-Na Aug 4 1948 CST 14Le30' 14Aq30'
Plu Opp Mer Tr-Na Mar 16 1949 CST 14Le30' 14Aq30'
Plu Opp Mer Tr-Na Jun 5 1949 CST 14Le30' 14Aq30'
Plu Sqr Mer Tr-Na Dec 29 1988 CST 14Sc30' 14Aq30'
Plu Sqr Mer Tr-Na Apr 7 1989 CDT 14Sc30' 14Aq30'
Plu Sqr Mer Tr-Na Oct 23 1989 CDT 14Sc30' 14Aq30'

Plu Sqr Ven Tr-Na Oct 14 1977 CDT 14Li22' 14Cp22'
Plu Sqr Ven Tr-Na May 12 1978 CDT 14Li22' 14Cp22'
Plu Sqr Ven Tr-Na Aug 4 1978 CDT 14Li22' 14Cp22'
Plu Cnj Ven Tr-Na Feb 5 2015 CST 14Cp22' 14Cp22'
Plu Cnj Ven Tr-Na Jul 2 2015 CDT 14Cp22' 14Cp22'
Plu Cnj Ven Tr-Na Dec 11 2015 CST 14Cp22' 14Cp22'

Plu Sqr Mar Tr-Na Nov 12 1963 CST 13Vi55' 13Sg55'
Plu Sqr Mar Tr-Na Jan 21 1964 CST 13Vi55' 13Sg55'
Plu Sqr Mar Tr-Na Sep 4 1964 CST 13Vi55' 13Sg55'
Plu Sqr Mar Tr-Na Apr 24 1965 CST 13Vi55' 13Sg55'
Plu Sqr Mar Tr-Na Jun 23 1965 CST 13Vi55' 13Sg55'
Plu Cnj Mar Tr-Na Jan 4 2001 CST 13Sg55' 13Sg55'
Plu Cnj Mar Tr-Na Jun 4 2001 CDT 13Sg55' 13Sg55'
Plu Cnj Mar Tr-Na Nov 4 2001 CST 13Sg55' 13Sg55'

Plu Sqr Jup Tr-Na Sep 21 1942 CWT 06Le46' 06Ta46'
Plu Sqr Jup Tr-Na Dec 27 1942 CWT 06Le46' 06Ta46'
Plu Sqr Jup Tr-Na Jul 28 1943 CWT 06Le46' 06Ta46'
Plu Sqr Jup Tr-Na Mar 8 1944 CWT 06Le46' 06Ta46'
Plu Sqr Jup Tr-Na May 29 1944 CWT 06Le46' 06Ta46'
Plu Opp Jup Tr-Na Dec 25 1985 CST 06Sc46' 06Ta46'
Plu Opp Jup Tr-Na Mar 27 1986 CST 06Sc46' 06Ta46'
Plu Opp Jup Tr-Na Oct 17 1986 CDT 06Sc46' 06Ta46'

Plu Sqr Sat Tr-Na Sep 17 1943 CWT 08Le08' 08Ta08'
Plu Sqr Sat Tr-Na Jan 4 1944 CWT 08Le08' 08Ta08'
Plu Sqr Sat Tr-Na Jul 24 1944 CWT 08Le08' 08Ta08'
Plu Sqr Sat Tr-Na Mar 19 1945 CWT 08Le08' 08Ta08'
Plu Sqr Sat Tr-Na May 21 1945 CWT 08Le08' 08Ta08'
Plu Opp Sat Tr-Na Nov 20 1986 CST 08Sc08' 08Ta08'
Plu Opp Sat Tr-Na May 15 1987 CDT 08Sc08' 08Ta08'
Plu Opp Sat Tr-Na Sep 15 1987 CDT 08Sc08' 08Ta08'

Plu Sqr Ura Tr-Na Sep 14 1952 CST 22Le10' 22Ta10'
Plu Sqr Ura Tr-Na Feb 6 1953 CST 22Le10' 22Ta10'
Plu Sqr Ura Tr-Na Jul 22 1953 CST 22Le10' 22Ta10'
Plu Opp Ura Tr-Na Jan 3 1992 CST 22Sc10' 22Ta10'
Plu Opp Ura Tr-Na Apr 20 1992 CDT 22Sc10' 22Ta10'
Plu Opp Ura Tr-Na Oct 27 1992 CST 22Sc10' 22Ta10'

Plu Cnj Nep Tr-Na Sep 27 1970 CDT 27Vi30' 27Vi30'
Plu Cnj Nep Tr-Na Apr 22 1971 CST 27Vi30' 27Vi30'
Plu Cnj Nep Tr-Na Jul 22 1971 CDT 27Vi30' 27Vi30'
Plu Sqr Nep Tr-Na Jan 14 2007 CST 27Sg30' 27Vi30'
Plu Sqr Nep Tr-Na Jun 24 2007 CDT 27Sg30' 27Vi30'
Plu Sqr Nep Tr-Na Nov 15 2007 CST 27Sg30' 27Vi30'

Plu Cnj Plu Tr-Na Jun 29 1941 CST 03Le09' 03Le09'
Plu Sqr Plu Tr-Na Nov 21 1984 CST 03Sc09' 03Le09'
Plu Sqr Plu Tr-Na Apr 30 1985 CDT 03Sc09' 03Le09'
Plu Sqr Plu Tr-Na Sep 17 1985 CDT 03Sc09' 03Le09'

Plu Cnj MC Tr-Na Oct 19 1967 CDT 21Vi42' 21Vi42'
Plu Cnj MC Tr-Na Mar 6 1968 CST 21Vi42' 21Vi42'
Plu Cnj MC Tr-Na Aug 18 1968 CDT 21Vi42' 21Vi42'
Plu Sqr MC Tr-Na Feb 8 2004 CST 21Sg42' 21Vi42'
Plu Sqr MC Tr-Na May 10 2004 CDT 21Sg42' 21Vi42'
Plu Sqr MC Tr-Na Dec 4 2004 CST 21Sg42' 21Vi42'

Plu Sqr Asc Tr-Na Nov 3 1959 CST 05Vi51' 05Sg51'
Plu Sqr Asc Tr-Na Jan 13 1960 CST 05Vi51' 05Sg51'
Plu Sqr Asc Tr-Na Aug 27 1960 CST 05Vi51' 05Sg51'
Plu Sqr Asc Tr-Na Apr 11 1961 CST 05Vi51' 05Sg51'
Plu Sqr Asc Tr-Na Jun 21 1961 CST 05Vi51' 05Sg51'
Plu Cnj Asc Tr-Na Dec 6 1997 CST 05Sg51' 05Sg51'
Plu Cnj Asc Tr-Na Jun 30 1998 CDT 05Sg51' 05Sg51'
Plu Cnj Asc Tr-Na Sep 29 1998 CDT 05Sg51' 05Sg51'
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Last edited by unique_astrology; 12-29-2018 at 07:39 AM.
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  #7  
Unread 12-29-2018, 07:31 AM
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Re: Having faith

Flapjacks,


I understand your feelings and this search for a purpose

I recommend a book that helped me, is "Man's Search for Meaning" from Viktor Frank, he was an Austrian psychiatrist who passed through the Auschwitz concentration camp
The book is about his experience, all his anguish, disbelief, sadness, questionings

Analyzes human nature and its various behaviors in times of despair, apathy, discouragement, extreme situations where all limits of pain are put to the test. And the way in which each person faces this, where some go mad, succumbs, others find strength seeking to feel in small things when we do not have anything left to lose

Last edited by boleyn; 12-29-2018 at 07:34 AM.
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  #8  
Unread 12-29-2018, 09:11 PM
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Re: Having faith

I think Unique_Astrology hit it better than I did. Faith and loss of faith seem very Neptunian.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And well change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #9  
Unread 12-31-2018, 07:17 PM
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Re: Having faith

FYI -You will have need to strengthen your beliefs in whatever you depend on by the time 2020 begins. Slow and steady. You have time.

Saturn will aspect the following natal points and midpoints (those not in grey)
in that year.

This is not an answer to your question but having the knowledge of what is coming your way is important for you in view of your post.

You are welcome.
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  #10  
Unread 01-02-2019, 07:23 PM
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Re: Having faith

Perhaps helpful.

Pick Yourself Up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20ViFpURIDk

"I Know Where I'm Going"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toTxKrVlCdM
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  #11  
Unread 01-03-2019, 11:52 PM
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Re: Having faith

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
With Pluto, you probably won't get your old sense of faith back. In exchange, you get a depth of life experience and realism that makes you stronger.

[...]

Now I think there is such a thing as the OK life, the good-enough life.
Renewed faith can't be the same as before - I suppose that would mean one never learned from the past. That is a good point. But is it possible to replace the naivete with something just as meaningful - not so much settling, but still thriving or doing something good with one's life? I think that is what bothers me so much about my own cynicism. It prevents me from acting and moving forward. It's like an idea or impetus emerges, and a hammer comes down immediately to quash it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unique_astrology View Post
Having lost my family when I was 14 I never had anyone to call on for help. When I met hard times I lived through them the best I could.

The events precipitating your feelings are not known to us but the aspects indicating them are.

They have been the transits of Saturn conjoining your natal and progressed Neptunes, and recently your Mars and Neptune natal and progressed midpoints. Still to come, it's conjunction with progressed, then natal Mars. Your progressed Moon is about to join the mix. Prepare yourself mentally.

I am trying to inform you, not demoralize you, because you will need to be prepared for Saturn's transit of your relocated MC/IC axis which holds your natal Moon and Sun and will be quickly followed by it's opposition to your natal Mercury.

Your partner will be very involved in all that transpires. Your relocated MC is at 29840'. It is square his natal MC at 20845'. Your relocated MC, natal Sun, Moon, and Mercury will be aspected by Saturn at the same time as his natal MC in 2020.

His chart has also been aspected by transit Saturn recently.

His natal Pluto shows at 314' Libra. In space it was at 18950'.

His progressed Pluto shows at 205' Libra. In space it has been at 18846'.

His natal Mars will feel the triumvirate of Sun, Saturn, and Pluto in January of 2020.

You will be going through the patch together.

Best.
Thank you for the additional information. My partner has had major transits to his personal planets/points from Saturn, Uranus, and Pluto the last few years - Pluto passed over his AC, now it reaches 1st house Cap Mars in 2020. His Mars is conjunct my Moon (and all aspects involved), so any major transits to that point will affect both of us strongly. My guess is his actions (Mars, which is also square Uranus natally) will cause an upset to my Sun/Moon/Merc condition. He has been prone to sudden decisions that force a change in course for me in the past (such as deciding to sell his house and moving 50 miles away to go to school - we live together, but I only found out about this plan when the buyer arrived at the door and we had to move in three weeks ).

I have no idea what Saturn foretells, but my hope is that it will be constructive instead of destructive - whatever Pluto is going to dish out, Saturn tends to arrive wherever I am able to pick up the pieces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unique_astrology View Post
No matter what aspects occur in your horoscope I hope your natural inclination (without thinking about it) is to be the best person you can be.

RN TOPEKA - Natal Chart Jan 25 1941, 3:35 am, +6:00 TOPEKA KS, 39N02'54'', 095W40'40''.

Leaving out hard aspects from Mars, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune but showing those from Pluto to every planet and horizon connected angle in my natal. Thinking about what number of challenges may have been faced as I lived through them may speak to your thoughts about your life. Sorry this is all I can contribute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NJFiSwkHyc

Just the conjunctions, squares, and oppositions from Pluto to the planets and angles of my chart.
It's really hard to fathom how you could endure that. So many strong Pluto transits shows a demanding focus on survival.

Pluto seems to push people in a direction of self-sufficiency as a raw entity. It's never "I survive because my family needs me," or "I survive because I want to make things better for the future," or whatever someone may imagine is valuable to them - the repeated blows ensure that every reason is stripped away. It simply becomes, "I survive" and the absence of any artifices or dressings allow for an understanding of who or what you really are. It no longer needs to be justified, and so it is free to exist as itself (until the artifices are rebuilt, of course).

I apologize if that is melodramatic - melodrama is best articulated in song. I love that jab against Washingtonians in the Pete Seeger/Arlo Guthrie clip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boleyn View Post
Flapjacks,


I understand your feelings and this search for a purpose

I recommend a book that helped me, is "Man's Search for Meaning" from Viktor Frank, he was an Austrian psychiatrist who passed through the Auschwitz concentration camp
The book is about his experience, all his anguish, disbelief, sadness, questionings

Analyzes human nature and its various behaviors in times of despair, apathy, discouragement, extreme situations where all limits of pain are put to the test. And the way in which each person faces this, where some go mad, succumbs, others find strength seeking to feel in small things when we do not have anything left to lose
Thank you for the recommendation! I will look for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unique_astrology View Post
FYI -You will have need to strengthen your beliefs in whatever you depend on by the time 2020 begins. Slow and steady. You have time.

Saturn will aspect the following natal points and midpoints (those not in grey)
in that year.

This is not an answer to your question but having the knowledge of what is coming your way is important for you in view of your post.

You are welcome.
Those Libra midpoints are a minefield. Thank you, this chart will be very helpful - the one you did for me a few years ago was an excellent reference, as well. I appreciate that you share this more in-depth understanding of what to look for in transits/progressions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unique_astrology View Post
Perhaps helpful.

Pick Yourself Up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20ViFpURIDk

"I Know Where I'm Going"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toTxKrVlCdM
These old tunes almost make me forget that Taylor Swift exists, and that's always helpful.

Swing Time was a good movie. Fred Astaire performances have a way of making me feel like anything is possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGUsRGuZb6k

Last edited by Flapjacks; 01-03-2019 at 11:58 PM.
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  #12  
Unread 01-04-2019, 03:24 AM
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Re: Having faith

Faith might well be Neptunian: illusions and disillusionment.

Pluto can push your back to the wall and strip away everything you thought you were and thought you had. Then the wall collapses. When you have nothing to lose, you get to understand yourself in an existential way. If you like, you get to scream back at the universe.

Maybe faith, like happiness, is something that we choose; even in the face of contradictory evidence.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And well change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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