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  #2351  
Unread 01-03-2018, 05:42 AM
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Re: Chat Thread

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I'm surprised at how anti-charity you seem. I'm just about as fiscally conservative as one can be wothout being on the fringe. One of the tenets of being fiscally conservative is leaving financial benevolence to private parties; not the state with tax dollars going into welfare.
Charity isn’t needed. Only free markets and productive people.

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I don't see the use in being opposed to taxes and to charity. Just asking for the rabble to vote in a socialist.
They vote socialist because they’re immoral and corrupt.

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Charity is necessary in fostering a capable society. Naturally without ot, the dregs of society would surely be legion. Charity gives an organic safety net (or better yet, trampoline) from which one might be able to bounce back.
Charity seems to prolong to the inevitable. It doesn’t make anything better. It doesn’t pull people out of poverty. It rewards them for being useless.

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The upper-classes should feel an innate duty to engage in philanthropy; the rich man's burden, perhaps.
No they shouldn’t. They’ve already done their part. The poor should have an inmate duty to help themselves; not turn to other people for help. We’ve spent so much money to help Africa, yet they are still poor. Charity doesn’t solve the problem, it’s just a shitty band-aid.

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You also agree that poor people need more opportunity to be successful but greed stops that from happening.

Some rich children will not be as talented as some poor children and people are selfish about wanting to stay on top of the triangle so will protect their assets and don't care if poor miss opportunities.

So capitalism is not forced altruism it is just illegal to starve them because there would be a revolution.
It is forced altruism. In order for someone to buy my product, they have to give me money. We both trade value. No one is getting taken advantage of. People who are forced to give money without anything in return is not fair or just.

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  #2352  
Unread 01-03-2018, 05:53 AM
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Re: Chat Thread

Poor people are trapped by Capitalism because Capitalism has the power of what to sell the goods for the poor people need

Why is there gun crime? Because somebody sold lots of guns to make money.

Why is there robbery? Because of unemployment.

Why are people addicted to drugs? Because of the 1% manufacturing it to make profit.

And btw Africa is in debt because of loans the Western world gave it. Africa was not born in debt it was made it by economy.

And what is the economy but a made up word invented by Capitalism?

The world is in debt because only so much money has been printed so more people need it.

Why not just print more money?

Why build chain after chain of supermarkets with fixed high prices the poor cant afford so they settle for cheap food with poison in it because some manufacturing boss wants to make the most profit.

Last edited by Ukpoohbear; 01-03-2018 at 05:56 AM.
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  #2353  
Unread 01-03-2018, 05:56 AM
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Re: Chat Thread

No....

It’s because of markets people actually have something to buy. If there was no capitalism, people would starve or have to make their own food.

The reason why we can go to the store and buy food in abundance is because a businessman worked with other businessmen to grow the food, and put the food in a store, and do it efficiently enough to sell at a lower price.
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  #2354  
Unread 01-03-2018, 05:58 AM
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Re: Chat Thread

There’s gun crime because people use guns irresponsibly. Not because someone sold them a gun.
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  #2355  
Unread 01-03-2018, 05:59 AM
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Re: Chat Thread

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No....

It’s because of markets people actually have something to buy. If there was no capitalism, people would starve or have to make their own food.

The reason why we can go to the store and buy food in abundance is because a businessman worked with other businessmen to grow the food, and put the food in a store, and do it efficiently enough to sell at a lower price.
Markets are a place to buy and sell there is nothing wrong with that idea.

Its greed (Capitalism) that makes it unfair and guess what that breeds (poor people).
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  #2356  
Unread 01-03-2018, 06:03 AM
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Re: Chat Thread

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There’s gun crime because people use guns irresponsibly. Not because someone sold them a gun.
If guns were not manufactured because they made the business owner a profit there would not be so many guns.
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  #2357  
Unread 01-03-2018, 06:06 AM
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Charity isn’t needed. Only free markets and productive people.
Then you clearly know more and better than those like Bill Gates who you have already cited for his success. In truth, charity is necessary for the reasons I have mentioned, but perhaps most importantly, to alleviate the burden on the tax payer. It would be, frankly, ridiculous to assume that one can be a part of a society that lacks both tax-payer funded welfare, as well as private charitable works. It isn't realistic at all. Learn from the Tsar.

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They vote socialist because they’re immoral and corrupt.
Much like children who weren't reared properly, perhaps? So then again you show the need for charity. These wayward children ought to be protected. Wealth has a consequence and expectation of benevolence in this civilized world.

Unless, you mean to say that those in a state of poverty are inherently corrupt and naturally inclined to immorality, in other words: born with those natures? Help me to understand as you do.

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Charity seems to prolong to the inevitable. It doesn’t make anything better. It doesn’t pull people out of poverty. It rewards them for being useless.
It isn't enough of a reward to be considered as such. No, there are plenty of examples, all of which are anecdotal and I prefer arguing in theory. The inevitable, might I add, is death; and that is inevitable for rich and poor.

Furthermore the poor who ardently try to better themselves ought to be fostered. If they aren't fostered, I feel that society would suffer as a result. A child has potential to grow, and a pauper has the potential to expand his affluence if privately (not by the state) subsidized by way of charity.

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No they shouldn’t. They’ve already done their part. The poor should have an inmate duty to help themselves; not turn to other people for help. We’ve spent so much money to help Africa, yet they are still poor. Charity doesn’t solve the problem, it’s just a shitty band-aid.
You are asking for a tremendous burden on the taxpayer. I'm not entirely sure if this is your intention, but that is the true inevitability. For the record, I'm not talking about charity to Africa, or India, or anywhere else beside the United States. Let the rich of those countries do their bit.

If we follow this logic of yours down the proven path, we'll see crime rise and prison rates rise as a result. Crime = prison = taxpayer money. Or, we see an electorate that is so poor that when some socialist comes along, he just stole an election. Poverty, therefore socialism, therefore tax hikes, therefore tax payer burden.

You are speaking in Utopian contexts that aren't at all realistic. Charity is a necessity in any civilized society. We aren't savages. We have a country and community, we aren't our own little islands.

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People who are forced to give money without anything in return is not fair or just.
Like taxes, right? I agree completely. So let's not give people the opportunity to demand higher taxes for welfare and give a little more to the relief fund, eh? Well, I will anyway. I'll enjoy my tax deduction. Cheers!
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  #2358  
Unread 01-03-2018, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Markets are a place to buy and sell there is nothing wrong with that idea.

Its greed (Capitalism) that makes it unfair and guess what that breeds (poor people).
Capitalism is the best this Tropical Age of Capricorn can do, and like the Sign itself, it has its plusses and minuses. Capritalism! Can't live with it, can't live without it!
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  #2359  
Unread 01-03-2018, 06:18 AM
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Re: Chat Thread

The "help" the US and various other countries (utlizing IMF etc) provide to Africa and other places isn't genuinely altruistic or really designed to enrich them (maybe publicly that is "the idea").

It creates massive debt and the money is put into infrastructure which allows ready access for various corporations to access resources and a requirement for the countries to allow it as they have debts to pay. Most of it is not "charity" but loan. It's akin to the English plundering large amounts of wealth out of India etc earlier.

So it's not really a good example of charity not helping...since it does what it is meant to do which is expansion of the US empire (not just US, mind you) through economic "hitmanship" and warfare. That kind of warfare became necessary by the time of the cold war...

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  #2360  
Unread 01-03-2018, 06:26 AM
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Poor people are trapped by Capitalism because Capitalism has the power of what to sell the goods for the poor people need
I'd like to ask what kind of system you find to be most agreeable to all people?

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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Why is there gun crime? Because somebody sold lots of guns to make money.
Gun crime is not always (or even usually) committed by a legal firearm. These tools are procured through black markets or the gun was procured by other criminal means. I'm a gun owner and I like to think of myself as law-abiding.

We need to remember that when legal gun ownership is fostered, crime should not react with inclination, but disinclination. The reason that black markets exist is because of licensing, taxes, and other non-capitalistic means.

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Why is there robbery? Because of unemployment.
That is, and I hope you'll excuse me, childish of you to say and dismissive. To tab all robbery to being unemployed? That is too absurd. I'd like you to tell that to the looters during these riots and natural disasters. Are they really doing that because they are unemployed? Really? If they were employed, they wouldn't do that?

The next question is, why is there unemployment? Could it be because capitalism isn't allowed to work and the minimum wages are too high so smaller businesses can't higher more people and expand? Really fires up the neurons.

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Why are people addicted to drugs? Because of the 1% manufacturing it to make profit.
Right, cause heroin is definitely made by JP Morgan and Microsoft. Those Financial advisers and their pill-pushing! No, lol. I'm stretching that to the absurd but I'd really like a citation as to why that, of all reasons, is why drug addiction exists; especially when the epidemic seems to be focused on opiates and other illegal substances.

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And btw Africa is in debt because of loans the Western world gave it. Africa was not born in debt it was made it by economy.
More often than not, it was not the Western world, but China and the former Soviet Union; especially the Southern parts of Africa. Remember Angola and Mozambique has only been under African rule since the 1970's. Even later for Zimbabwe, and still later for South Africa. The new governments in these countries inherited Western technologies and economies, but because these new governments were not even remotely capitalistic but socialist, they floundered. Don't blame capitalism.

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And what is the economy but a made up word invented by Capitalism?
I don't even know what this means. Help me to understand.

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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Why not just print more money?
Ja! Wilkommen zu Weimar! It hasn't worked out well before, but let's try it again. Back to Africa for a sec, you should research inflation in Zimbabwe, it was really fascinating. They had starving Trillionaires for a time because their dollar wasn't worth anything so everyone had a lot of worthless money. They ended up abolishing their currency like fools and accepting international currencies.

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Why build chain after chain of supermarkets with fixed high prices the poor cant afford so they settle for cheap food with poison in it because some manufacturing boss wants to make the most profit.
If corporate taxes, sales taxes, and other state deployed schemes weren't in play, this wouldn't be an issue. You are arguing against capitalism when you ought to argue against the state for being interlopers in peoples wallets.

Cheers!
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  #2361  
Unread 01-03-2018, 06:30 AM
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The "help" the US and various other countries (utlizing IMF etc) provide to Africa and other places isn't genuinely altruistic or really designed to enrich them (maybe publicly that is "the idea").

It creates massive debt and the money is put into infrastructure which allows ready access for various corporations to access resources and a requirement for the countries to allow it as they have debts to pay. Most of it is not "charity" but loan. It's akin to the English plundering large amounts of wealth out of India etc earlier.

So it's not really a good example of charity not helping...since it does what it is meant to do which is expansion of the US empire (not just US, mind you) through economic "hitmanship" and warfare. That kind of warfare became necessary by the time of the cold war...

[/random woowoo]

Carry on.
With night Saturn as Age Lord, things are going about as well as one might expect. The Age of Capritalism is coming to a bad ending. Saturn is now Conjunct the Tropical Age tuning fork, and is directly affecting the Earth's Astrological resonance frequency. Third World's in real trouble, and it's getting worse. Won't hit the First World until Saturn's at about 15 degrees Capricorn.
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  #2362  
Unread 01-03-2018, 06:30 AM
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Re: Chat Thread

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Capitalism is the best this Tropical Age of Capricorn can do, and like the Sign itself, it has its plusses and minuses. Capritalism! Can't live with it, can't live without it!
Yes I was agreeing with Appleo on some points but we are both taking black and white views so we were always going to disagree.

Capitalism has it good points yes lol I thought this when I just had cinnamon porridge and with greek yogurt with it that I am thankful for Capitalism
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  #2363  
Unread 01-03-2018, 06:38 AM
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Re: Chat Thread

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With night Saturn as Age Lord, things are going about as well as one might expect. The Age of Capritalism is coming to a bad ending. Saturn is now Conjunct the Tropical Age tuning fork, and is directly affecting the Earth's Astrological resonance frequency. Third World's in real trouble, and it's getting worse. Won't hit the First World until Saturn's at about 15 degrees Capricorn.
I didn't realize you utilized transits with your tuning fork - I always thought it was a more generalized age indicator similar to precession of the equinox! Interesting.
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  #2364  
Unread 01-03-2018, 06:44 AM
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Re: Chat Thread

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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Markets are a place to buy and sell there is nothing wrong with that idea.

Its greed (Capitalism) that makes it unfair and guess what that breeds (poor people).
No.

Capitalism cures poverty. How many times do I have to say it. How hard is that to understand???

If you don't want people to be poor, poor people have to be greedy themselves, and work for money so that they won't be poor.

It doesn't matter if people are greedy.

It doesn't matter if a you're a homeless person and a billionaire walks past you. You're not his problem. You're your problem. If you don't want to be poor then you fix it. The 1% didn't get wealthy by taking money from people, the 1% got wealthy because they created wealth. They make everyone else's lives easier.

The founder of Amazon is a billionaire. He didn't take money from people. His business allowed people to buy cheap products easily off the internet and delivered the products right to their doorstep. Everyone won. Capitalism. Win-win. The poor didn't suffer because of him; the poor only got better.

Business helps poor people. Not charity.

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If guns were not manufactured because they made the business owner a profit there would not be so many guns.
If food wasn't manufactured people would starve. So that's great.

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Originally Posted by Boston Guy View Post
Then you clearly know more and better than those like Bill Gates who you have already cited for his success. In truth, charity is necessary for the reasons I have mentioned, but perhaps most importantly, to alleviate the burden on the tax payer. It would be, frankly, ridiculous to assume that one can be a part of a society that lacks both tax-payer funded welfare, as well as private charitable works. It isn't realistic at all. Learn from the Tsar.
There would be no burden on the taxpayer is we jsut abolished or cut government spending by like 90%.

How is it not realistic??? What's not realistic is how much the government spends by borrowing money, that we don't have to pay back, to fund stupid ********. I'm more down-to-earth than 99% of people.

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Much like children who weren't reared properly, perhaps? So then again you show the need for charity. These wayward children ought to be protected. Wealth has a consequence and expectation of benevolence in this civilized world.
Yeah I guess... or could just let them go. The children that weren't raised properly will raise their children improperly, so why not just cut to the chase and end it there. There would be less tragedy and pain in the long-run. Besides, giving those people charity rewards them for being messed up.

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Unless, you mean to say that those in a state of poverty are inherently corrupt and naturally inclined to immorality, in other words: born with those natures? Help me to understand as you do.
They vote socialism because they're idiots. They've been brainwashed.

There the people that are moved by this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwUGSYDKUxU

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It isn't enough of a reward to be considered as such. No, there are plenty of examples, all of which are anecdotal and I prefer arguing in theory. The inevitable, might I add, is death; and that is inevitable for rich and poor.
You're giving people free stuff for doing nothing. That's not going to help anyone.

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Furthermore the poor who ardently try to better themselves ought to be fostered.
Nope. If you're gonna use violence to make me help a poor person then that's unjust.

Poor people should convince better-off people that they deserve the money and that it's obvious they'll better themselves with that money.


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If they aren't fostered, I feel that society would suffer as a result.
You feel lol.... Society would be better off. Society suffers when it has to take care of people that provide nothing in return.

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A child has potential to grow, and a pauper has the potential to expand his affluence if privately (not by the state) subsidized by way of charity.
Yeah...

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You are asking for a tremendous burden on the taxpayer. I'm not entirely sure if this is your intention, but that is the true inevitability. For the record, I'm not talking about charity to Africa, or India, or anywhere else beside the United States. Let the rich of those countries do their bit.
They've already done their bit. GOD, how many timess.... Bill Gates made Microsoft. He's done. He's done his part. He can spend his money however he wants legally.

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If we follow this logic of yours down the proven path, we'll see crime rise and prison rates rise as a result. Crime = prison = taxpayer money. Or, we see an electorate that is so poor that when some socialist comes along, he just stole an election. Poverty, therefore socialism, therefore tax hikes, therefore tax payer burden.
When taxes go up crime and all that bad stuff goes up. Because there's a lack of responsibility and individuality. Take the city of Detroit. IT was a great city and then completely screwwed by the democrats.

Poor people who people who are just totally suffering wouldn't exist in a free market. That just doesn't happen. Everyone would have jobs. The government and people's altruism get in the freaking way.

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You are speaking in Utopian contexts that aren't at all realistic. Charity is a necessity in any civilized society. We aren't savages. We have a country and community, we aren't our own little islands.
I'm a savage.

You know, if I wanted to help poor people, I would build a business and put them to work. That's what I would do. I wouldn't just give them free money. That's so stupid and wastes wealth.


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Like taxes, right? I agree completely. So let's not give people the opportunity to demand higher taxes for welfare and give a little more to the relief fund, eh? Well, I will anyway. I'll enjoy my tax deduction. Cheers!
You can give to charity. I'm not going to waste my time and money.
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  #2365  
Unread 01-03-2018, 06:46 AM
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Re: Chat Thread

Honestly, I don't care. Give to charity... As long as it's your free-will to give to charity.

I think football is stupid and should be abolished, but if people's free-will want football then fine... whatever.

People can do whatever they want. Give all your money away to poor people. Idgaf.

Just don't tell me to give my money away.. because its MINE. Because I earned it. So I should choose what I want to do with it.

If I didn't exist... or to be more intensive... If rich people didn't exist, poor people would starve to death and die. Why should the dependence on rich people determine whether or not another group of people can be successful and live well???? If you want poor people to be successful, you have to pretend like rich people don't exist.
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  #2366  
Unread 01-03-2018, 06:48 AM
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Re: Chat Thread

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Originally Posted by Rawiri View Post
The "help" the US and various other countries (utlizing IMF etc) provide to Africa and other places isn't genuinely altruistic or really designed to enrich them (maybe publicly that is "the idea").

It creates massive debt and the money is put into infrastructure which allows ready access for various corporations to access resources and a requirement for the countries to allow it as they have debts to pay. Most of it is not "charity" but loan. It's akin to the English plundering large amounts of wealth out of India etc earlier.

So it's not really a good example of charity not helping...since it does what it is meant to do which is expansion of the US empire (not just US, mind you) through economic "hitmanship" and warfare. That kind of warfare became necessary by the time of the cold war...

[/random woowoo]

Carry on.
Thank you for that Rawiri.
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  #2367  
Unread 01-03-2018, 07:05 AM
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Re: Chat Thread

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I'd like to ask what kind of system you find to be most agreeable to all people?
Good question, do you know B?

There needs to be a central place of power to control people with fear and prison because Anarchy would be dangerous and horrible.

Anarchy would also not last and would end up with a leader.

Leaders are good to make people feel safe.

Democracy is good but power and money has corrupted it.

The two party system in America and the UK is one thing and I am also aware a lot of Wallstreet people are part of Congress, you hear similar stuff in the UK.

How do you fix that? Maybe a cycle of revolution and wait for the peak and the drop and that's all you can do.

Apart from having a central government we also need autonomy so I would say we need to balance those two needs. Democracy does that in theory but that is all.

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Gun crime is not always (or even usually) committed by a legal firearm. These tools are procured through black markets or the gun was procured by other criminal means. I'm a gun owner and I like to think of myself as law-abiding.

We need to remember that when legal gun ownership is fostered, crime should not react with inclination, but disinclination. The reason that black markets exist is because of licensing, taxes, and other non-capitalistic means.
Why are guns available in the first place? lets not go back to Western times or right back to the basics that it is a tool for survival but lets just ask why there are so many guns available either legally or on the black market....money.

Whether it is legal or not is just business but whoever made them made it for a profit.

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That is, and I hope you'll excuse me, childish of you to say and dismissive. To tab all robbery to being unemployed? That is too absurd. I'd like you to tell that to the looters during these riots and natural disasters. Are they really doing that because they are unemployed? Really? If they were employed, they wouldn't do that?

The next question is, why is there unemployment? Could it be because capitalism isn't allowed to work and the minimum wages are too high so smaller businesses can't higher more people and expand? Really fires up the neurons.
Crime happens because of a lack of resources in the poor and the want to have monopoly of those resources in the rich.

What I said sounded childish because it was dismissive yes.

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Right, cause heroin is definitely made by JP Morgan and Microsoft. Those Financial advisers and their pill-pushing! No, lol. I'm stretching that to the absurd but I'd really like a citation as to why that, of all reasons, is why drug addiction exists; especially when the epidemic seems to be focused on opiates and other illegal substances.
Drugs are available cheap because of people manufacturing it. Do you think the 1% aren't behind something that makes a large amount of profit?

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More often than not, it was not the Western world, but China and the former Soviet Union; especially the Southern parts of Africa. Remember Angola and Mozambique has only been under African rule since the 1970's. Even later for Zimbabwe, and still later for South Africa. The new governments in these countries inherited Western technologies and economies, but because these new governments were not even remotely capitalistic but socialist, they floundered. Don't blame capitalism.
So I said the Western World when really I should have mentioned other Civilisations.

Obvious point to make B.


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I don't even know what this means. Help me to understand.
I said 'what is the economy except a made up word'

I was asking 'what is the economy?'

Does anyone actually know?

Politicians keep going on about it and we have to work and buy in order to keep the economy going.

What is it?


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Originally Posted by Boston Guy View Post
Ja! Wilkommen zu Weimar! It hasn't worked out well before, but let's try it again. Back to Africa for a sec, you should research inflation in Zimbabwe, it was really fascinating. They had starving Trillionaires for a time because their dollar wasn't worth anything so everyone had a lot of worthless money. They ended up abolishing their currency like fools and accepting international currencies.
Does what you say not support the idea that poor people need to exist for some people to be rich?



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If corporate taxes, sales taxes, and other state deployed schemes weren't in play, this wouldn't be an issue. You are arguing against capitalism when you ought to argue against the state for being interlopers in peoples wallets.

Cheers!
That is Capitalism, the US government is run by interlopers in people's wallets.
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  #2368  
Unread 01-03-2018, 07:10 AM
Boston Guy Boston Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
There would be no burden on the taxpayer is we jsut abolished or cut government spending by like 90%.

How is it not realistic??? What's not realistic is how much the government spends by borrowing money, that we don't have to pay back, to fund stupid ********. I'm more down-to-earth than 99% of people.
One who is down-to-Earth doesn't strike me as someone who would make a claim to be "more down-to-Earth" to that extant. Regardless.

In cutting government spending (which I am completely agree with), a vacuum would be opened up. The lower classes (I wrongly called them rabble earlier, mea culpa) would fill this vacuum with a variety of impropriety and the immorality you used to think they were capable of will seem saintly. Charity fills that void; consider it a necessary evil, though again I don't regard it as an evil, but rather a duty of mine.

Further it isn't realistic given the extent of how left the old Overton Window has gone and how society has already sold out to fiscal irresponsibility.

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Yeah I guess... or could just let them go. The children that weren't raised properly will raise their children improperly, so why not just cut to the chase and end it there. There would be less tragedy and pain in the long-run. Besides, giving those people charity rewards them for being messed up.
End it how? Charity acts as an incentive. For instance, one of my charities is St. Joseph's Indian School out west. I give them money and I get updates on what the school and the kids are up to. If they sent me an update saying they were endorsing an idea or person I found to be distasteful, I'd cancel my donations. It is the same with the individual poor. They ought to be rewarded so long as they show signs of potential, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
They vote socialism because they're idiots. They've been brainwashed.

There the people that are moved by this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwUGSYDKUxU
I knew it was going to be that song. I hate that song, and that man, and that bag-of-hammers looking chick he started running with. What was her name? Oh yeah, Yoko Oh-fugg-no.

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
You're giving people free stuff for doing nothing. That's not going to help anyone.
Sometimes that's the best. Consider it protection money. "Here take this $20 bill and beat it, stop loitering in front of my store and don't loot me when the storm comes, got it?"


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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
You feel lol.... Society would be better off. Society suffers when it has to take care of people that provide nothing in return.
Unfortunately, if you expect a society of billionaires and only the upper-class, you're out of luck. The dregs of society, the poor, will always be there. Always. But this doesn't mean that we cannot universally raise the standard of living in our country.


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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
They've already done their bit. GOD, how many timess.... Bill Gates made Microsoft. He's done. He's done his part. He can spend his money however he wants legally.
Good, I'm pleased we agree.

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
When taxes go up crime and all that bad stuff goes up. Because there's a lack of responsibility and individuality. Take the city of Detroit. IT was a great city and then completely screwwed by the democrats.
It was a great city because of industry, and yes, ******* by democrats which caused unemployment which caused welfare which caused more democrat voters. Democrats love poverty; they listed it all out in the Cloward-Piven Plan.

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Poor people who people who are just totally suffering wouldn't exist in a free market. That just doesn't happen. Everyone would have jobs. The government and people's altruism get in the freaking way.
No. In a free market society there would still be poor people, though yes they would (or ought) to be employed as there would be the means for employment. Not everyone is naturally inclined to take up the mantle of fortune, mind you.

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
You know, if I wanted to help poor people, I would build a business and put them to work. That's what I would do. I wouldn't just give them free money. That's so stupid and wastes wealth.
Exactly right, and that would help more, but it isn't either/or. One can do both.

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You can give to charity. I'm not going to waste my time and money.
That is certainly your prerogative.

Cheers! We have reached a level of satisfactory agreement!
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Unread 01-03-2018, 07:17 AM
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Ukpoohbear Ukpoohbear is online now
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Re: Chat Thread

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
No.

Capitalism cures poverty. How many times do I have to say it. How hard is that to understand???

If you don't want people to be poor, poor people have to be greedy themselves, and work for money so that they won't be poor.

It doesn't matter if people are greedy.

It doesn't matter if a you're a homeless person and a billionaire walks past you. You're not his problem. You're your problem. If you don't want to be poor then you fix it. The 1% didn't get wealthy by taking money from people, the 1% got wealthy because they created wealth. They make everyone else's lives easier.

The founder of Amazon is a billionaire. He didn't take money from people. His business allowed people to buy cheap products easily off the internet and delivered the products right to their doorstep. Everyone won. Capitalism. Win-win. The poor didn't suffer because of him; the poor only got better.

Business helps poor people. Not charity.

Amazon is a great example because in order for Amazon to be successful they had to deliver the goods on time and that means quickly and cheaply. Enter cheap labour.

Being greedy means someone has to lose.

I do agree each person has an individual responsibility and it is about turning the wheel of fortune for yourself yes.

There are not enough jobs though and if you are lucky to get a job when you have not been fed, educated or nurtured properly then you might be able to get a job in Amazon for less than minimum wage and long hours.

You only have enough to pay rent and no more. You cant afford to educate yourself, you cant afford to eat as well so your life span shortens.

That's why Capitalism doesn't work the same for everybody.

Somebody has to suffer in order for Capitalism to work.

Plus, apart from the 1% we are all in the same boat. We are told to make money and die ands that's the only thing we really do.
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  #2370  
Unread 01-03-2018, 07:22 AM
Boston Guy Boston Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
How do you fix that? Maybe a cycle of revolution and wait for the peak and the drop and that's all you can do.
And seize the means of production, Karl?


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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Why are guns available in the first place? lets not go back to Western times or right back to the basics that it is a tool for survival but lets just ask why there are so many guns available either legally or on the black market....money.
And how do you intend to take away legal and illegal guns, exactly? Furthermore, why should my firearms be taken away? What do you say to me about my property?

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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Whether it is legal or not is just business but whoever made them made it for a profit.
They certainly didn't do it out of the kindness of their hearts; they are businessmen who have obligations to shareholders. There is nothing wrong with any of it.

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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Crime happens because of a lack of resources in the poor and the want to have monopoly of those resources in the rich.
But again: why are there a lack of resources? Because the state regulates uncontrollably; and you want them regulating more? Come on. Naivety is only appreciated in children, not in economic policy.


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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Drugs are available cheap because of people manufacturing it. Do you think the 1% aren't behind something that makes a large amount of profit?
You made the claim so the burden is yours to prove it. How are the 1% behind the drug epidemic?


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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
I said 'what is the economy except a made up word'

I was asking 'what is the economy?'

Does anyone actually know?

Politicians keep going on about it and we have to work and buy in order to keep the economy going.

What is it?
The economy is simple really. It is an all-encompassing word that can be used to describe various markets, sectors, wealth, and policies of countries and groups. No conspiracy there.


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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Does what you say not support the idea that poor people need to exist for some people to be rich?
Of course they need to exist and I'm glad they do; I don't want to kill them, obviously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
That is Capitalism, the US government is run by interlopers in people's wallets.
No, that is wrong. That is socialism-lite. Free-Market Capitalism is the opposite of that. Deregulation and subsidiarity.

Cheers!
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  #2371  
Unread 01-03-2018, 07:33 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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I didn't realize you utilized transits with your tuning fork - I always thought it was a more generalized age indicator similar to precession of the equinox! Interesting.
I have it in the Tropical-chart. It's based on a 30 degree Age Interval, which is the part representing the circle of the Ecliptic. The Earth's Astrological influence is projected into the Ecliptic, and the tuning fork can tell us what Signs and rulers have the Earth's support. It moves so slowly, due to the Progression of the Earth's Perihelion on which it's centered, that it takes 1743 years for the Mean Perihelion to move it from convergence with one Sign, to convergence with the next, in Direct-motion. So, the last convergence was with Sagittarius in 406 A.D. Sagittarius continues as Background Age-sign, and Capricorn is Foreground. In 2149, Aquarius becomes the new Foreground Age-sign, and Capricorn becomes Background to that.
I'm watching the effects of the Transit-Aspects TO the Fork. Saturn is currently empowered by the Earth as Foreground-ruler, with the leading tine in Capricorn, and Jupiter is empowered as Background-ruler, with the trailing tine in Sagittarius. The First World is Saturnian, and is bent on the destruction of the Jupiterean Third World, as the Foreground Age of Capricorn comes to a close.
When it comes to actual Mundane events, too much attention is paid to the upcoming Aquarian Age, which isn't yet ready to rumble.
The cause of Progression of the Perihelion Tropically, is the same reason for Precession of the Equinoxes through the Sidereal Zodiac. Sidereally, the Age Fork has its 1st tine fixed on the Vernal Equinoctial Point which takes 2148 years to move the Fork from convergence with one Sign, to convergence with the next, in Retrograde-movement. The chosen Ayanamsa determines when that happens.

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  #2372  
Unread 01-03-2018, 07:56 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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I should mention, that although the shock of the beginning of the Saturn-ruled Age of Tropical Capricorn caused the Dark Ages and the personification of Saturn as "Satan, Prince of this World", the Tropical Ages aren't uniform in when they exert their full influence. The Cardinal-sign Ages are innovative, and face strong opposition from the momentum of the entire, previous Season of Ages, represented by what's transmitted through the Mutable-sign, Background Age. So, the Age of Capricorn didn't really get rolling until about the 1700s, and it's accelerating towards the end. The Fixed-sign Ages take over quickly, at the very start, because the innovations are already in place. Interesting that the transition out of the Kali Yuga is in the same timeframe as the effective beginning of the Aquarian Age.
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  #2373  
Unread 01-03-2018, 07:59 AM
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Re: Chat Thread

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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post

Somebody has to suffer in order for Capitalism to work.
Give me an example... because that's simply not true.
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  #2374  
Unread 01-03-2018, 08:48 AM
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Re: Chat Thread

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And seize the means of production, Karl?
I don't think I am Karl Marc if that is what you meant. My idea of revolution and peak and lows actually came from what I have learnt in astrology because it shows that everything peaks and then changes.


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Originally Posted by Boston Guy View Post
And how do you intend to take away legal and illegal guns, exactly? Furthermore, why should my firearms be taken away? What do you say to me about my property?
Why are you asking me for specific answers like I am a politician?

Could you be any more passive aggressive (Chandler's voice)

I actually think cold turkey is the best and all guns should be banned just like that. In order to stop revolution from happening I would make a plan so people gave me their guns willingly.

For example the police state and facebook. We gave away our location and privacy because it was cool.

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Originally Posted by Boston Guy View Post
They certainly didn't do it out of the kindness of their hearts; they are businessmen who have obligations to shareholders. There is nothing wrong with any of it.
There is nothing wrong when the poor have a lack of opportunity and instead guns are available cheap? Pleeeeease

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Originally Posted by Boston Guy View Post
But again: why are there a lack of resources? Because the state regulates uncontrollably; and you want them regulating more? Come on. Naivety is only appreciated in children, not in economic policy.
So you are saying there are a lack of resources because the state regulates them? I haven't heard that idea before, why would the state do that?

There is a lack of resources because society is corrupt and looks after the rich because the rich have the power.

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Originally Posted by Boston Guy View Post
You made the claim so the burden is yours to prove it. How are the 1% behind the drug epidemic?
Why is it a burden to answer something I have said? All I have to do is explain why I said it.

I watched a Theroux documentary about the heroin epidemic in in a USA state (I cant remember which state). EVERYONE they interviewed said they were addicted to heroin because they became addicted to painkillers until they were no longer available.

Some stole the painkillers from theirs Dad's drawer, some by being given the prescription themselves. When the prescriptions stopped, some bought painkillers but all eventually started to take heroin as a substitute for that addiction.

Theroux became frustrated at one point because they were being given the same answers and so the answer was clear early on - everyone they interviewed was addicted to heroin because they were given painkillers.


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Originally Posted by Boston Guy View Post
The economy is simple really. It is an all-encompassing word that can be used to describe various markets, sectors, wealth, and policies of countries and groups. No conspiracy there.
I still don't know what the economy is and I don't think you do either.


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Originally Posted by Boston Guy View Post
course they need to exist and I'm glad they do; I don't want to kill them, obviously.
I don't want to kill rich people I just disagreed with Appleo but I also agree with a lot of what he is saying that the poor should be responsible for themselves. All I'm saying is there are things in place that stop it from happening that is more than having bad parents but opportunity and circumstance. Bad parenting can mess up a rich child too and the cycle of being a dick continues until somebody stops it.

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Originally Posted by Boston Guy View Post
No, that is wrong. That is socialism-lite. Free-Market Capitalism is the opposite of that. Deregulation and subsidiarity.

Cheers!
Wth is Socialism-lite? I don't know these words but I know common sense lol
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  #2375  
Unread 01-03-2018, 09:02 AM
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Re: Chat Thread

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Give me an example... because that's simply not true.
Amazon would be nothing without its delivery service, the promise of next day delivery or Prime delivery is what makes it so useful. You need lots of people with lots of low wages to make that happen. You need people of low skill.

Apple has a history of bad working conditions in the overseas factories. They went there because its cheap so there will be more capital for their business.

The Grenfell tower block fire. The community had been there for generations but the last few years there had been construction of cheap housing into £million properties in order for the most profit. What was left of the cheap housing were now right next to these new properties. The Grenfell tower block was thought to be an eye sore because it was this big tall brown building. It didn't look right for the millionaires so they covered it up. Grenfell had been promised a regeneration worth millions but instead all that ever came of it was silver cladding put around the building to cover up the brown. Non flammable material would have cost a little more than the flammable material they chose. I think it was £3000 they paid for flammable cladding instead of the more expensive stuff.

(I just googled and the flammable material was £2 cheaper a square metre)

Last edited by Ukpoohbear; 01-03-2018 at 01:24 PM.
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