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  #1  
Unread 02-27-2007, 07:06 AM
Mikey279x Mikey279x is offline
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Pluto in aspect to Mercury

Whats everyones opinion on Plutos aspect to Mercury? Does it make make one intelligent in differnet ways... prone to disscusing the darker aspects of life etc..

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Unread 02-27-2007, 04:09 PM
Catatonia Catatonia is offline
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

It depends on a lot. First of all, it depends on the sign and house placements of both Mercury and Pluto. Secondly, it depends on the other placements in the chart as well. What does the individual like to learn? Law? Fitness? maybe they like art? In any case, Pluto makes a small thing big and a big thing small. It blows things up and shrinks them down.

A very general view of Mercury/Pluto aspects can be associated with getting to the bottom of things; a very investigative sort of attitude about life. Perhaps they do enjoy reading mystery novels and biographies of serial killers, exploring the gothic scene and other aspects of existance that people wouldn't normally touch.

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Unread 02-27-2007, 11:02 PM
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

Yes favorable aspects between mercury/pluto are defintly good for investigatory and research talents. Pluto is traditioally the ruler of the underworld so naturally gives the native interest in the dark sides of existence, and most likley not afraid of death. As Catatonia said, the house and sign placement are important as well. Pluto is the planet of regeneration and death either good or bad, and not necessarily meaning the flesh body, death of anything. It also means birth so it is really a planet of drastic and lasting change unlike uranus's short and sudden changes so keep this in mind with any pluto aspects. Pluto is also the planet of psychological problems or talents.

I have a strong conj with my sun/mercury in trine to pluto in scorpio (see my chart in sig) in the 1st and 9th houses respectivly and i have found i have a real talent for research. At it's best the aspect can give someone the aliblity to perceive reality as the interplay of energy as i have known for as long as i can remember. After all what are atoms but balls of energy? A great aspect for an atomic physicist, and it also gives an interest in occult and science.

Pluto can be sort of a malific planet, meaning any aspects have some bad qualities. I have a tendincy to always think i am right and defend my ideas with passion and agression that surprises people considering my timid piscean tendincies. This is strange considering the drastic changes my opinions have undergone over the years, so i must learn that they are not always worth defending with such conviction. It also makes it hard to really open up and trust other people. I think Hitler most likely had a strong plutonian influence (uranus was squaring pluto around his birth if i remember right). Pluto and scorpio represent power and passion among other things, the former can cause issues with a strong pluto. I have a tendincy to try and subconciously control and manipulate people, i also feel as if some people deserve death for thier actions. Luckliy i am a strongly piscean individual and the 9th house placement of pluto is good for a less ruthless attitude.

Pluto is a strange planet for good or bad, hope this helps
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Unread 02-27-2007, 11:25 PM
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

My spontanious thoughts about this subject, talking about my own chart:

- Mercury in Aries and Pluto in Virgo, they are in eachothers sign
- Mercury in 6 (cusp Aries) and Pluto in 11 (cusp Virgo), they are in eachother houses as well
- Progressed Mercury square Natal + Progressed Pluto !
- Partner of Mercury, Vulcan, is trine Pluto which connects Pluto 'indirect' to Mercury

Pluto (and Mars) is my strongest planet (result after calculations) and is in Mercury's sign Virgo.

and also: Mercury conjunct Venus (= ruler 8 !!!)

I just wanted to show some more ways of looking at a chart to show you how to find 'confirmations' . Although i dont have a Mercury-Pluto aspect in NATAL chart, I do see how my thinking is influenced by the traits of Pluto.

Perhaps interesting to look closer at charts of authors, who seem to have an investigating mind.

Good luck !:33:
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Unread 03-02-2007, 01:02 AM
Mikey279x Mikey279x is offline
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiequix
I have Mercury and the Sun biquintile to Pluto in my chart. I have read that the Mercury - Pluto influence is what gives me my penchant for sarcasm. I do have a pet peeve about the unwillingness most people show with regards to talking about death, that's definitely a Mercury- Pluto influence! I feel that physical death is inevitable, we all experience it and it can be so painful that the added pressure of social akwardness is adding insult to injury. Also, I'm aware that I have a kind of dark twist to my nature in general.
That totally sounds like me!! I have Pluto square Mercury in the 5th!!

does your mercury make you prone to dark sarcasim in a way that sometimes freak people out? like when they ask a question your subconscious almost makes you say something that seems innapropreiate?
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Unread 03-02-2007, 08:01 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

I have a close applying Mercury-Pluto square, with Mercury separating from the aspect!
I used to listen and be under the influence of people who sort of demanded I acted and did what they said, thought and did. It was as if I had no will of my own to think for myself. This especially applied to the belief systems of 9th house Mercury. What I thought and believed in was of no consequence. Through circumstances I eventually got to the stage when I no longer lived by other people's rules but discovered my own, began to express ideas that, to this day, are experienced by many to be 'out of this world'. As a result, I get labelled with being forceful and obsessional about the bee in my bonnet simply because I experience a different perspective that is just as strong for me as other people's ideas are for them. The fact that Mercury is in an Earth sign, I discriminate the tree and the forest by stating the facts, which aren't always appreciated (e.g. If you put your hand in the fire it's going to get burnt).

Depending upon the appling or separating aspect, Mercury-Pluto can mesmerise with thoughts and words. I have a maxim that has taken form over the years. I plant the idea and then allow it to germinate so that others come to think of it as theirs.

F.
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Unread 03-02-2007, 08:53 AM
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

Interesting you guys talking about sarcasm, i am defintly terribly sarcastic. I am almost always sarcastic in fact... lol people many times get confused. I say "Awesome" when something really stinks then they are all "no not really..." kinda funny most people dont seem to grasp it. I had to explain what sarcasism was to my moon in cap friend.
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Unread 03-18-2007, 06:43 PM
Teddybull Teddybull is offline
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

Something I found with this aspect is that people with the square are such deep thinkers (to the point of probing investigation)...... downside is that they become to focused on one thought that might lead them down the wrong road AND they can't see the wall in front of them.

I know of one for example, with the square from Merc in Scorp and Pluto in Leo..... is tyrannical in thought. I believe the fixed sign square has got to be the hardest one of all, making things more inflexible.

Great depth of character, fascinating insights, no objectivity. Blessings, tb
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Unread 03-18-2007, 11:14 PM
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

Quote:
Whats everyones opinion on Plutos aspect to Mercury? Does it make make one intelligent in differnet ways...
Intelligence is taken from Mercury alone, a good placed, well dignified, well fortified Mercury gives a great intelligence ability (it can indicate genius' as well). An ill dignified Mercury leads to the opposite. Mercury rules over speech, cognitive abilities, and intelligence. The greater dignified it is, the easier these things come.
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Unread 03-19-2007, 02:59 AM
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

HI, I have merc 28 degrees Aqua and Pluto at 24 Leo, Merc trines Neptune and Merc also squares Saturn.
Mystery and research yes and sarcassim, I hate to admit some of the time.

I have a great imagination to go with this and LOL can chase my own tail like a cat at times. However, I dig and dig to get to the bottom of something.

Merc is also quintile to mars. My freaking brain nevers stops. I daydream, I visualize things, I think about anything and wonder why. I have to walk or do something physical like dance or I spin out.

Pluto hooked up with any planet gives some serious zing to it.
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Unread 03-19-2007, 03:30 AM
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

Mercury and Pluto are old pals! In the days of "myth", it was Mercury's earth side, Hermes, who guided souls to the underworld after their time expired on planet Earth. Mercury was the only one both quick enough, brave enough, and detached enough to venture into the underworld and manage to come out unscathed.

Pluto likes Mercury because he's full of information and almost as tricky as 'ole Pluto himself. Pluto can use these mounds of facts to expose any sort of nastiness that needs purification and rebuilding.

Mercury in prominent relation to Pluto, be it by aspect, dispositorship, or midpoint, takes on a sharp, shrewd, tricky, probing, detective-like behavior. Mercury in this configuration has little patience for a bullshitter, hates lies and deception, and has little patience for those of slower mind. Pluto makes Mercury very sharp, in a way reminiscent of the old sprint commercials... He can hear a pin drop, and can pull that pin out of the haystack as well. A wonderful detective.. The worst enemy of those trying to fool this native. Cutting and brutal, he's great at a good debate, or worse (although maybe better in his view!), a heated argument. He can sense where it would hurt, and will hit right on that spot without flinching. Those with strong Pluto influence on Mercury are not the type to pick a verbal or intellectual battle with. They tend to cut you down in the harshest of ways, and enjoy inflicting pain verbally and/or intellectually. They sometimes (ok.. usually!) get a rise out of it. Of course, they won't always do so, but if you curse them or otherwise give them a reason... be ready! They'll say anything, regardless of social or political correctness, and desire complete freedom of verbal and intellectual action. Off limits in the mind? never! Don't be surprised if they whip out overtly sexual references, even at the dinner table. Nothing is off limits with these folks, and they make a strong distinction between thoughts and words versus actions; to them, it's not wrong to talk about or think about some of the most dark and distasteful things, even explore them in gruesome detail mentally... Even though they may consider actually doing such actions to be highly criminal or utterly distasteful, this can prompt them to actually enjoy thinking about these things.. They love to get into the mind of the criminal or otherwise forbidden subjects. The mind is very much unafraid to go where angles fear to tread.

Realize they won't display all of these attributes all the time... Those with Mercury/Pluto linkages generally receive plenty of negative feedback from those around them and learn to keep themselves in check, lest they suffer various repercussions. However, when they are irate or in good and secure company, they'll let Pluto poke through the veil. It can be quite interesting.

I have Mercury retrograde in Scorpio in partile waxing semisextile to Pluto. It is the third most exact aspect in my chart. The fourth is it's quintile to Jupiter Most of what I wrote is from my experiences with this placement, both positive and negative. It has a some significant downsides (mainly in sensitive social or workplace situations) however I wouldn't trade it for anything. To hell with those who can't handle the intensity

edit to add: A few of you mentioned sarcasm as well. This is certainly a Mercury/Pluto thing. We love the dark but truthful and honest side of sarcasm, and wonder why all you other people think it's so bad... To us, it's a wonderful form of eloquence mixed with humor, even if you don't agree :P
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  #12  
Unread 03-19-2007, 05:59 AM
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

You did not have to eloquintly remind pluto merc folks in such precise detail, Mind you

less, there may be more there to probe for.
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Unread 03-19-2007, 06:12 AM
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

I have a dignified Mercury conjunct Pluto, with Mercury as the final dispositor. Sun, Asc, Mercury in Virgo..I'm very mercurial with a Pluto twist.

I can completely relate to what is being described by Unulkhai in the previous post.

Being A virgo it translates like this:

The ability (urge) to psychanalyse everything, get down to the very bottom of things, bring up the dark stuff what most people don't want to touch is like a cleansing process. Since my Virgo convinces me that this is a good process, I instinctly seek and find, analyse, turn over and bring up those sweepings that were meant to stay under the carpet. Just those very bits that people would rather not acknowledge. Or outright deny. That's were the fun bit comes in (I can go over board with it as well). My Mercury forces me to communicate about it, because an unspoken thought, is like a discovery, revelation not shared. Mostly though, this is all done with the idea that the person will be better off for it, even though it can cause short-term pain.
I can't stand liars and warn my nearest never to lie to me because it's the lie, not the action that will get me cross.

My favourite work- I love accounting, as it it's a mental challenge with a bit of problem solving, analysing and sleuthing. The end result is total control (Pluto) when the bank reconciliation works!

Cheers
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Unread 03-20-2007, 02:21 AM
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy
I have a dignified Mercury conjunct Pluto, with Mercury as the final dispositor. Sun, Asc, Mercury in Virgo..I'm very mercurial with a Pluto twist.

I can completely relate to what is being described by Unulkhai in the previous post.

Being A virgo it translates like this:

The ability (urge) to psychanalyse everything, get down to the very bottom of things, bring up the dark stuff what most people don't want to touch is like a cleansing process. Since my Virgo convinces me that this is a good process, I instinctly seek and find, analyse, turn over and bring up those sweepings that were meant to stay under the carpet. Just those very bits that people would rather not acknowledge. Or outright deny. That's were the fun bit comes in (I can go over board with it as well). My Mercury forces me to communicate about it, because an unspoken thought, is like a discovery, revelation not shared. Mostly though, this is all done with the idea that the person will be better off for it, even though it can cause short-term pain.
I can't stand liars and warn my nearest never to lie to me because it's the lie, not the action that will get me cross.

My favourite work- I love accounting, as it it's a mental challenge with a bit of problem solving, analysing and sleuthing. The end result is total control (Pluto) when the bank reconciliation works!

Cheers
I cannot handle liars myself. If you lie about one thing, there is usually more hidden.
Lying distorts the real emotions and it has a dominio effect on not just the person you lie to, but usually innocent people become involved and most of all the person lying is lying to themselves.

What I like most about having pluto oppose mercury is the fact I do not ususally give up when searching for answers. Sleuths of the truth.

Being a aqua mercury has been a subject of question for me. I have read it is exalted in Aqua and dignified in gemini and Virgo. Then I have read something different.

Neptune is questionable as well. some say Leo and others say Cancer in exaltation. Have read both.

All other planets have straight forward exaltations and dignities.

Uranus is the higher octive of mercury. Neptune is of Venus,
Mars is exalted in Cap, Venus in Pisces, Mercury of Aqua
Mars can rule both scorpio and aries. Venus rules both Libra and Taurus.
Mercury rules both Gemini and Virgo.

Pluto by modern is Scorpio and exalted in Leo. So, I guess Cancer gets Neptune in exaltation.
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Unread 03-21-2007, 11:07 AM
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

Simply Red,
I have found merc in aquarius to have many of the traits you described - probing, detest lies, searching for the truth of the matter. I have found people with this placement to be rational (almost to the scientific level), practical, just want to get to the point. Different from merc in Gemini in that aqua is not so tied down and bogged with superficialness. However, gemini can get the point through more convincingly. Merc in aqua gets the point through uniquely. Merc in aqua are usually not good liars. Just a thought, tb
Now, add pluto to the equation....
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Unread 03-23-2007, 01:17 PM
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

My Older brother has Mercury Square Pluto in school the teachers used to call him the quiet man, Mercury is his chart ruler. My brother is very private we hardly see him for months and he never tells any of his business unlike me with my Mercury/Moon in Pisces square Neptune I will tell you all my sorrows without much of a push . My brother has expressed wanting to be a policeman but he has now dropped the idea, he does have an interest in the criminal world. In Sue Tompkins book "Aspects in Astrology" she says one possible scenario for the Mercury/Pluto is that the mother may have experienced a miscarriage before the Mercury/Pluto child was born.

Quote:
Sue Tompkins - I have known several cases where Mercury-Pluto has been a prominent aspect in the charts of siblings who unfortunately died and profoundly affected the childs ability to communicate. It's as if the children believe that their words or thoughts have killed their brothers or sisters. Such tradgedies also kill someone with whom the child would have usually have enjoyed if not easy then spontaneous everyday communication. And I have also known cases involving the 12th house usually where a child had died or a baby had been miscarried prior to the birth of the Mercury-Pluto child. The youngster may not be told of this but vaguely picks up the fact that something awful happened in the past: so awful that no one can talk about it.
This did happen to my mother she was pregnant but hadn't told anyone accept my dad at the time. She got married while she was pregnant. Unfortunately she lost the baby, but nobody else had known about what happened it was kept a secret. Not long after she got pregnant again with my brother. Part of the symbolism of the Mercury/Pluto for my brother is a secret about a sibling who died which nobody knew about. I am not sure if he even knows about it now. My mother may have just told me and my sister about what happened.

My baby son has Mercury conjunct Sun in the 12th square Pluto in the 4th. Personality traits I cannot tell at his age but he is separated from a half sister and there has been conflict with my partners ex wife, and trouble trying to get decent visitation. Sibling problems in the sense of being apart and separated seem to be up to now part of the issues of his Mercury in 12th square Pluto in 4th house.

Last edited by Shining Ray; 03-23-2007 at 03:29 PM.
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Unread 03-24-2007, 05:44 AM
Quite an Aquarius Quite an Aquarius is offline
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

I have Mercury in Aquarius square Pluto in Scorpio. I've always had a penchant for discussing blood, gore, and generally disgusting things, though usually in a humorous way that doesn't greatly offend people (and if it does, I'm so caught up in my own warped thoughts I don't notice.) I'm definately highly intelligent and insightful, but often suspicious of other people, a little paranoid, and not very flexible. I have a sort of knack for predicting future scientific discoveries and political trends. Usually people don't believe me, and then I'm always the one saying "I told you so. . ."
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Unread 03-25-2007, 12:28 AM
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

Very interesting, Shining Ray, even though my aspect is positive my mother did in fact have a miscarrage before she had me. Though my family is very open (my father excluded) and there are few if any secrets that big. Something about mercury/pluto seems to give a distrustful mentality that can result in much investigation into anything the native wants to see as truth. I think trust is a huge issue with mercury/pluto interactions. I also just want to add that ya... don't challenge our percieved "truths" or we will show the Scorpian energy very strongly. I also love to argue and debate with intelligent people, maybe just to prove to myself i am right (which is most often the case!).
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Unread 03-25-2007, 06:17 AM
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisceanfool
trust is a huge issue with mercury/pluto interactions. I also just want to add that ya... don't challenge our percieved "truths" or we will show the Scorpian energy very strongly. I also love to argue and debate with intelligent people, maybe just to prove to myself i am right (which is most often the case!).
So true. We're cynical, and to us, those who think being a cynic is a bad thing are just plain dazed and confused. Why should we believe something without substance to back it up? What good does blindly trusting the motives of others result in?

There is no truth to us until we've investigated and "cleared" something as fact. We're even suspicious of the references we use to investigate! After we've done this, don't even try to challenge; we know we probably investigated 10 times harder than someone else would have... Although sometimes we are wrong and will admit it.. AFTER we take some additional time to see if you are actually right. But we find that we've often correctly gotten to the bottom of something. It those times when something changes on us and we're not aware of it that can catch us off guard!

Our trap is being too prideful in our ability to investigate and being stubborn about what we've researched (fixed sign!) to the point we won't go back and doublecheck, sometimes jumping down someone's throat too soon. I used to be guilty of this often, however I've learned to take a little time to check up on something, collect even more facts, including specific ones to refute the incorrect party's exact misconception.. and then, I have even more to challenge with, and generally end up tearing apart the other's false sense of truth in a methodical manner. Sometimes I'll even just walk away quietly (or change the subject) thinking "what a dumbass!" and then come back with printed, hard to refute data. Those words to the tone of "I guess you were right *sigh*" are always pleasing, and I don't see why argue a trivial point. But if it's worth arguing.. It's ON!
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Unread 03-01-2008, 12:44 PM
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

funny I also have [;uto in scorpio.....in the first house exactly trine mercury........and im a gemini.....some of what people have said about the aspects of pluto and mercury on a lower level(sarcasm though never my problem, underming people.. other such behaviors) is true but pluto can also be the eagle as well..... I am plutonion(and venusian and others but those two fight for power in my chart) my friends describe me as intense but in different way......they say I am a mirror...that I am an open and vulnerable person yet intense(I have no problems being vulnerable) that they feel link someone is putting up a mirror to the things they didn't want to see....

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisceanfool
Yes favorable aspects between mercury/pluto are defintly good for investigatory and research talents. Pluto is traditioally the ruler of the underworld so naturally gives the native interest in the dark sides of existence, and most likley not afraid of death. As Catatonia said, the house and sign placement are important as well. Pluto is the planet of regeneration and death either good or bad, and not necessarily meaning the flesh body, death of anything. It also means birth so it is really a planet of drastic and lasting change unlike uranus's short and sudden changes so keep this in mind with any pluto aspects. Pluto is also the planet of psychological problems or talents.

I have a strong conj with my sun/mercury in trine to pluto in scorpio (see my chart in sig) in the 1st and 9th houses respectivly and i have found i have a real talent for research. At it's best the aspect can give someone the aliblity to perceive reality as the interplay of energy as i have known for as long as i can remember. After all what are atoms but balls of energy? A great aspect for an atomic physicist, and it also gives an interest in occult and science.

Pluto can be sort of a malific planet, meaning any aspects have some bad qualities. I have a tendincy to always think i am right and defend my ideas with passion and agression that surprises people considering my timid piscean tendincies. This is strange considering the drastic changes my opinions have undergone over the years, so i must learn that they are not always worth defending with such conviction. It also makes it hard to really open up and trust other people. I think Hitler most likely had a strong plutonian influence (uranus was squaring pluto around his birth if i remember right). Pluto and scorpio represent power and passion among other things, the former can cause issues with a strong pluto. I have a tendincy to try and subconciously control and manipulate people, i also feel as if some people deserve death for thier actions. Luckliy i am a strongly piscean individual and the 9th house placement of pluto is good for a less ruthless attitude.

Pluto is a strange planet for good or bad, hope this helps
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Unread 03-01-2008, 03:07 PM
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddybull
Something I found with this aspect is that people with the square are such deep thinkers (to the point of probing investigation)...... downside is that they become to focused on one thought that might lead them down the wrong road AND they can't see the wall in front of them.

I know of one for example, with the square from Merc in Scorp and Pluto in Leo..... is tyrannical in thought. I believe the fixed sign square has got to be the hardest one of all, making things more inflexible.

........no objectivity.
I have Scorpio Mercury square Leo Pluto - and TB describes me perfectly here.

EJ
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Unread 03-01-2008, 05:47 PM
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

Hello!

I recently posted on a similar mercury topic but feel I can join in this one too!
I have a heavily aspected mercury involving:

Mercury square Pluto
Mercury square Uranus
Mercury square Mars
Mercury trine ASC
Mercury conjunct south node

5th House mercury Sag/ south node
2nd House mars, uranus, pluto. Virgo

I think, and it has been said before, because mars, uranus & pluto are conjunct the energies of these planets are hard to seperate, and I am eccentric,unusual, obsessive, and firing on full cylinders when it comes to the thinking patterns of my latest 'Interest' (what ever it may be)

I cannot learn things and talk about subjects unless I know as much as I possibly can about them. When Im interested in something I read about every detail (virgo), and end up going down paths of newly discovered things (uranus) that are still in research mode (pluto/merc)
My favourite saying is 'a know it all knows nothing' and im always looking for new knowledge.
Anatomy & Physiology started off as an interest 5 years ago and I now teach it at a high level.
Fitness started off as an interest and Im now qualified in a vast amount of fitness things including aerobics, personal trainer, nutrition & and again recently this has evolved into me now teaching the personal trainer qualification to new would be fitness enthusiasts!

LIES - I am a walking lie detector. I sometimes consider it a curse because I can stand talking to people and KNOW they are lying to me, even white trivial lies, I stand there smiling in the conversation thinking 'why are you lying to me?' it drives me nuts!

SPELLING & GRAMMAR- not sure if this is pluto or not but I cannot read anything without spotting a spelling mistake, books, newspapers everything, I am infuriated by text talk spelling that has become the new thing and feel its the downfall of the english language. Young people can no longer spell ( I know this as I mark 16 - 18 year olds work on a daily basis)

PSYCHOLOGY - I am able to psycho analyse everyone in terms of what makes them tick. I love all the different influences that shape personalities. Im currently trying to find the time to do a degree in Psychology. My favourite minds as you may guess (pluto) are serial killers and anyone criminally insane, the more mad the better!

RESEARCH - I cannot just be told something and believe it without doing some research.
(I have copied and pasted this from my user page)

My Astrological Journey

My mother who I never got on with, and have always viewed as a bit 'weak minded' and pathetic took an interest in astrology when I was 14 ish. She created my chart and would say things to me which I didnt want to hear at 14 such as 'you wont get married until your in your 40's' (which as it turns out is correct!) and other outrageous things. Being a hormonal teenager I would rip up the charts in disgust shouting ' What a load of crud' till in the end I decided to learn a bit about it and complete some research ONLY to PROVE it was a load of rubbish and shut her up. I was the most cynical of all people.

I learnt how to draw up charts in the days when there were no computers, I learnt the basic meanings of the planets/houses and transits then watched and watched the effects on myself and other people. Slowly but surely I had to eat my words after seeing the same results over and over with certain things. I then discovered Robert Hand who opened up the esoterical side to me and changed me completely in personality. I learnt to look within myself and began a path of self improvement from around 30 yrs.

Since then I still do the research and I am currently into the minor asteroids juno, palllas, vertex etc within synastry and composite charts. I can talk for england but find it difficult to put my astrology knowledge into words (lack of air) I find this very frustrating.

I absolutly love watching and reading the posts and analysing the people who post psychologically, your all in my research! So thankyou for being such a varied bunch of interesting characters!

Dawn <---- otherwise known as the 'Thread Killer'
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Last edited by Astrodawn; 03-01-2008 at 05:50 PM.
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  #23  
Unread 03-06-2008, 08:29 PM
undertoad undertoad is offline
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Ray

Quote:
Sue Tompkins - I have known several cases where Mercury-Pluto has been a prominent aspect in the charts of siblings who unfortunately died and profoundly affected the childs ability to communicate. It's as if the children believe that their words or thoughts have killed their brothers or sisters. Such tradgedies also kill someone with whom the child would have usually have enjoyed if not easy then spontaneous everyday communication. And I have also known cases involving the 12th house usually where a child had died or a baby had been miscarried prior to the birth of the Mercury-Pluto child. The youngster may not be told of this but vaguely picks up the fact that something awful happened in the past: so awful that no one can talk about it.
Very interesting post ShiningRay - thanks.

I can confirm that my Mercury (conj Sun, orb 3) in Gemini (both 8th Hs) square Pluto in Virgo/11th Hs (Sun square orb 0, Mercury square orb 4) definitely correlates with what Sue Tompkins describes, in my life. Though in ways I'm not sure I can explain right now, as I'm still trying to figure it out.

I've enjoyed reading the other interesting posts on this thread about sarcasm and the ability to throw "forbidden" topics into conversation. Definitely true of me, though I censor it back, maybe too much.

What you're talking about is a darker side to this. Looking at the symbolism (which is all I can do right now): Pluto is stuck in the Underworld by law, Hermes (Mercury) is beyond any law of restriction; by nature and mission, he can go anywhere. Uncomfortable partners, these two. One has to stay in the Underworld, the other one can escape. You can see where the guilt comes from.

Question: can Hermes talk about the Underworld when he's up here? Or is silence part of the deal that allows him to go there and come back?

Last edited by undertoad; 03-06-2008 at 08:31 PM.
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  #24  
Unread 03-06-2008, 11:34 PM
gaer gaer is offline
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

Astrodawn,

You wrote about so much. Let's consider just one aspect pattern:

Uranus/Pluto square Mercury…

The important thing is that the energy of Uranus and Pluto are fused together. They become a unit. I would keep it simple, for now.

Because the aspect to Mercury is challenging/hard, it would be very hard for you to make a distinction between:

A) the part that is rebellion (not wanting to be boxed in, needing independence, expressing those needs in the way you think and speak, not accepting things without investigating them yourself), and

B) the part that is intensity.

I would think the intensity comes from Pluto. It would be hard for you to control it, and since Pluto itself is strong in your chart, you probably wear out less energetic people.

The need to check everything for yourself and your insistence on being free to make up your mind about everthing would come from Uranus, I think.

But with those to energies fused together in this manner, it's really hard to tell what is coming from where, isn't it?

Gaer
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  #25  
Unread 03-07-2008, 05:39 AM
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blennus blennus is offline
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Re: Pluto in aspect to Mercury

Pluto aspects with mercury certainly add cynicism and sarcasm, though I have found that the Neptune aspect in my Kite softens it quite a bit. I hold back on the sarcasm if I think they can’t handle it and might end up crying. I also tend to be a bit more trusting (IE Gullible) than most with Pluto-Mercury aspects (there’s that darned Neptune acting up again!) though I am just a cynical. A paradox you say? Nope I just believe that they believe what they are saying, but that doesn’t mean that I believe what they say. Ya follow?

In any case cynicism and sarcasm are merely symptoms of a greater malady caused by the Pluto-Mercury aspect, which a severe allergic reaction to any bull. The end result of which is the strong and irresistible desire to scratch that deep itch that lies beyond all of the socially fabricated layers of mental garbage that’s being spouted out these days. How that “itching” manifests depends on the nature of the aspect. Conjunctions will itch without knowing that they are doing so, while hard aspects will itch until it bleeds. Soft aspects itch enough to satisfy the urge without causing any permanent bodily damage. Or at least that is what I have found.
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