Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Natal Astrology > Aspects & configurations

Aspects & configurations Discuss here about natal chart aspects and configurations.


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 03-18-2007, 07:47 AM
StarNur's Avatar
StarNur StarNur is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 209
Mercury Rx in the 12th House

Hi,

I am talking to someone who has an interesting configuration that I'm curious about:

He has Mercury Retrograde at 0 deg Libra in the 12th house.

His Mercury is also square Neptune (Sag 26 deg), sextile Jupiter (Sag 3 deg)/Uranus (Sag 5 deg).

Can anyone tell me what this type of Mercury configuration possibly represents? Could it mean he's dishonest, confused, highly spiritual, or...?

Thank You

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 03-18-2007, 09:09 AM
astro.teacher astro.teacher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 648
Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

Mercury is not only Retrograde but Peregrine in that position and in the 12th House doesnt help. Mercury rules over speech when its debilitated you can expect some major speaking and communication issues and delays. Mercury also has rulership over the mind, and the 12th House rules over fears and sorrows. If Libra is the sign on the Cusp of the 12th House, look to the placement of Venus for more significations. Once you get that, and its placement, you can determine where the fears/sorrows and speaking debilities come from, especially if its in a Square or Opposition to Mercury.

Debilitated Mercurys tend to lead to liars, cheats, petty criminals (the 12th House also rules prisons as well), deceivers and thieves.

Edit: It occured to me that unless the cusp is right conjunct with Mercury it is likely that the 12th House is ruled by Virgo. If this is the case then Mercury is also the Ruler of that House making the significations, fears and sorrows come from places of enclosure (especially prisons), of large animals (horses, cattle) & etc. all other significations of the 12th House.

Edit 2: It has also occured to me that the 12th House also rules over "secret enemies" the characteristics described above can also be applied to the secret enemies of the person in question. Meaning that this person will be plagued with liars, cheats and thieves his life.
__________________
Aaron Brody
www.antiquus-astrology.com
Antiquus Astrology
Astrology Books, Treatise, Readings & more!

Last edited by astro.teacher; 03-18-2007 at 09:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to astro.teacher For This Useful Post:
or1000 (06-10-2018)
  #3  
Unread 03-18-2007, 05:19 PM
starlink's Avatar
starlink starlink is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: I live in peace
Posts: 6,350
Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

Often with a retrograde Mercury, but also with a direct Mercury in the 12th, you find a speech impediment like stuttering. It is known that people with Mercury in 12 often feel that others dont understand them or misinterprete what the person has told them. Often, as a very small child, the parents did not take the time to talk to, mentally engage with the child, the communicative qualities of the child were possibly not stimulated by the environment (children in orphanages or children that had to spend long periods in hospital for some reason or other). When square Neptune, it can mean that the child chooses to live in a selfcreated dreamworld as a means of protecting itself. What the child then tells you could be interpreted as lies but it depends very much on other aspects in the chart if lying persists during the life. Very often people with Mercury-Neptune squares can tell fantastic tales and almost believe it themselves. Good storytellers!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to starlink For This Useful Post:
or1000 (06-10-2018)
  #4  
Unread 03-18-2007, 09:47 PM
StarNur's Avatar
StarNur StarNur is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 209
Smile Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

Thank You for your replies. This is all news to me!! I haven't really noticed the communication problems. He doesn't have a speech impediment and he seems to speak fine to me. The only issue I have is that his first language is not English, but I still understand him...I think.

His mother is a teacher and his mother dedicated alot of her time making sure he was well educated. He graduated with a degree in computer science and now works in his field.

He soaks in and remembers everything I tell him.

He's also a virgo sun in the 11th house, but his sun does not aspect his mercury.


Astro.Teacher,

I wasn't sure what Peregrine meant, so I had to look it up. I came across a few different interpretations of what this means. Noel Tyl seemed to write favourable things about it..but he also says it signifies an unaspected planet (http://www.noeltyl.com/techniques/991130t.html ). A number of other interpretations say peregrine is unfavourable..but why? It's better than being in fall, isn't it?

You're correct, his 12th house cusp is Virgo and thus Mercury rules his 12th house. He also happens to be a Virgo sun but in the 11th house.

I can't imagine him being a cheater, liar or thief. I do feel however that I can be gullible with respect to relationships (I have Venus conj Neptune in the 7th, Neptune square Pisces Moon/11th hs, and Virgo Saturn/5th hs). I'm not sure if he's been plagued by such characters in his life either.


Starlink,

Sometimes I do sense a bit of frustration on his part trying to get his thoughts and feelings across (he also has Venus Rx). I can tell he holds back alot! When he does this for too long he says things that shock me (in a good way). Later on I think he regrets saying such things. I'm not sure if he regrets it because they're his true feelings and he doesn't want to be so open, or he says such things because he's insecure, wants someone and has fear of losing me, or if he was being dishonest for some ulterior motives. With his Mercury in Libra square Neptune he definitely does have a talent for whipping up romantic ideas and stories.

Last edited by StarNur; 03-18-2007 at 09:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 03-18-2007, 11:10 PM
astro.teacher astro.teacher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 648
Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

Peregrine is a debility, just like Retrograde, Detriment, Fall & etc. The Peregrination of a Planet is considered a "5" on the scale of malevolence. 5 is the highest number and therefore the most. Fall is only a 4 therefore its not as bad (Detriment also being a 5 to give you an idea). Peregrination is when the Planet has no dignities in the location he is. No applying Aspects is considered "Void of Course".
__________________
Aaron Brody
www.antiquus-astrology.com
Antiquus Astrology
Astrology Books, Treatise, Readings & more!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 03-19-2007, 01:18 AM
StarNur's Avatar
StarNur StarNur is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 209
Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

Thanks for clearing that up.

So his peregrine Mercury ranks highest on the malevolence scale, and it's retrograde, in the 12th house, and square Neptune.

Best not to trust his word then?

The sextile aspect his mercury makes to Jupiter/Uranus in Sag, 2nd house give me a bit of hope in what he says.

I'm looking forward to see what unfolds as I continue talking to him.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 03-19-2007, 02:03 AM
astro.teacher astro.teacher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 648
Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

The sextile is of a 3 degree orb therefore its not extremely powerful (sextile is the weaker of the benevolent aspects). Its the debilitated Mercury that creates dishonesty & etc. However its placement in the 12th indicates that he will get a lot of this from his secret enemies as well, people who are close to him talking lies about him, & etc.
__________________
Aaron Brody
www.antiquus-astrology.com
Antiquus Astrology
Astrology Books, Treatise, Readings & more!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 03-19-2007, 12:43 PM
starlink's Avatar
starlink starlink is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: I live in peace
Posts: 6,350
Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

Yes, Astro Teacher is right about that (he can be taken for a ride by his secret enemies). Glad to hear that he does not have a speech impediment! I have once seen it though, but I think Ernest Hemmingway also had a Merc. in 12 (and the rest!!) and he certainly spoke well. Indeed it also depends very much on the ruler of the 12th and the aspects that planet makes.
Retrograde can make the thinking process going deeper and often these people express themselves better in writing than verbally. I would not take anything too seriously if I were you, starting to think that he will lie to you I mean. Fantasizing is maybe better! (white lies?? maybe).
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 03-20-2007, 04:51 AM
StarNur's Avatar
StarNur StarNur is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 209
Smile Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

I think it's more plausible that he may have secret enemies/people behind the scenes cheating or lying to him. In that case I should warn him of this aspect.

It's so accurate that he communicates better (i.e. in the mercurial sense) through writing out his thoughts/feelings, than by saying them.

BTW, I read Anthony Hopkins also has Mercury Rx and in the 12th house.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 03-23-2007, 08:15 PM
StarNur's Avatar
StarNur StarNur is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 209
Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

Re: My own quote:

Quote:
BTW, I read Anthony Hopkins also has Mercury Rx and in the 12th house.
I checked out his bio on wikipedia (I'm assuming this part is accurate) and found something interesting:


Quote:
His schooldays were unproductive. A loner with dyslexia, he found that he would rather immerse himself in art, such as painting and drawing or playing the piano, than attend to his studies. In 1949, to instill some discipline, his parents insisted that he attend Jones' West Monmouth Boys' School in Pontypool. He remained there for five terms, of which Hopkins does not have fond memories. He was then educated at Cowbridge Grammar School.
Hopkins was influenced and encouraged to become an actor by compatriot Richard Burton, whom he met briefly at the age of 15. To that end, he enrolled at the College of Music and Drama in Cardiff, from which he graduated in 1957. After a two-year spell in the Army, he moved to London where he trained at RADA, at the suggestion of Roy Marsden.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Hopkins


He was a loner, had dyslexia, and artistic talents. Classic Mercury Rx in the 12th house interpretation, no?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread 03-23-2007, 08:24 PM
Sweet Stars Sweet Stars is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 159
Send a message via AIM to Sweet Stars
Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

I have Mercury Direct in the 12th house, with My Sun, and North Node.

All in Gemini

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 03-23-2007, 10:21 PM
astro.teacher astro.teacher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 648
Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

Quote:
He was a loner, had dyslexia, and artistic talents. Classic Mercury Rx in the 12th house interpretation, no?
I think classic Mercury retrograde characteristics yes. Difficulties with speech, reading, understanding & etc. are all classical symptoms (its a shame that Mercury goes Retrograde 3 times a year for 3 weeks, that means a lot of people have these issues).
__________________
Aaron Brody
www.antiquus-astrology.com
Antiquus Astrology
Astrology Books, Treatise, Readings & more!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 03-25-2007, 06:07 PM
StarNur's Avatar
StarNur StarNur is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 209
Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

Hi Sweet Stars,

do you ever feel you are misunderstood, or a have a difficult time communicating what you want, with Mercury in the 12th house, even though it's in Gemini?


Astro.teacher,

wow, so many people with retrograde. There's got to be some use/purpose, or benefit to the retrograde. It must be a challenge at the start, but overtime with so much inward focus dedicated to that planet in that particular house, they have to be specialists in how to use and work with Mercury at the end.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 03-25-2007, 10:47 PM
astro.teacher astro.teacher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 648
Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

Quote:
wow, so many people with retrograde. There's got to be some use/purpose, or benefit to the retrograde. It must be a challenge at the start, but overtime with so much inward focus dedicated to that planet in that particular house, they have to be specialists in how to use and work with Mercury at the end.
Retrograde, is just as any other debility. There are no benefits to debilities. Some people may be born disabled and use that as a reason to push themselves but that doesnt mean every disabled person is Rick Hansen (disabled athelete). Same goes for retrogrades, some crumble too it, some use it to get strong, depends on the person (and the other aspects in their chart). Also a retrograde is only ONE debility, there are MANY other Dignities and Fortitudes which can completely nullify the Retrograde. For instance if Mercury is in Virgo, he is in his House and that will nullify the retrograde (and the power of the House) because they are of equal power. The problem with Mercury is the fact that not only is he commonly Retrograde but hes also commonly burnt under the rays of the sun (Combust) which is another debility.
__________________
Aaron Brody
www.antiquus-astrology.com
Antiquus Astrology
Astrology Books, Treatise, Readings & more!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 04-05-2007, 07:17 PM
Sweet Stars Sweet Stars is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 159
Send a message via AIM to Sweet Stars
Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

Hi Sweet Stars,

do you ever feel you are misunderstood, or a have a difficult time communicating what you want, with Mercury in the 12th house, even though it's in Gemini?


I am very direct when I speak. Sometimes my words get all messed up but that's only becaue I talk fast at 600 miles a minute like a typical Gemini. I am very outspoken and very romantic and don't have problems showing my emotions. I am an intense person. Some people tell me I should be a lawyer LOL. There are times when I can be quiet and even stay quiet when someone says something to make me angry. Depends on whether it's the time of the month and I'm lashing out at everyone. The majority of the time I am outspoken though. I bought myself a shirt the other day that says Little Miss Chatterbox.


I do feel as if I don't belong on this planet but I don't think it's the Mercury.

I also think alot and talk to myself alot.

Last edited by Sweet Stars; 04-05-2007 at 07:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 04-06-2007, 11:20 AM
tsquare's Avatar
tsquare tsquare is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: In your mind.
Posts: 1,263
Send a message via MSN to tsquare
Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

I have mercury direct also but in the twelvth house also conjunt my sun 3 deg. apart in the 12th, in cancer. I have noticed that for one I tend to get way to far ahead of myself and am useually planning my next move instead of just stayung in the present and acting on the present it something Ive had to work on. I can make up my mind way to fast on stuff and have a hard time just waiting on the next moment to make a move when its apropriate or right also have a problem with patience and my speach and action can get a little jumbled with all the options that seem to come to mind so fast and I know that things I say to people often come accross as odd. I think the reason Im a bit of a loner is that I feel ahead of the moment where other poeple are beter at savoring the moment and letting the future sort of happen. mercury seems to push me from where I often want to be so I have had to pay alot of extera atention to just staying in the moment and savoring the easy things of life I can tend to take alot for granted. Here today gone tomarrow type of stuff hapens frequenlly to me and Im like ..."What no way!" With all that stuff in the 12th house. I can see how that would turn to "lonerism"
Im into art music and finding other ways to express myself and the "overall Picture" I tend to see. But i have a ton of other aspects to those planets and the 12th so I dont know how much this all helps anyone. But I can say that I have problems with comunication and am a little intense as well Ive had to work real hard to lighten up and not let stuff get to me that doesnt affect me directly. I can be a little to empathetic and selfless and can burnout easy if I dont pay some extra attention to myself balencing those two have been a challenge, Self and others, others in the past has won over before to the extreme and Ive had to get over my compulsion to "help" others. True Help for others and self and forging myself an identity "becoming an individual" have been very important Ive really had to learn to be "selfish". and "look out for number 1" and not Identify myself with others so greatly .
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 04-23-2007, 06:05 PM
The_Sundance_Kid's Avatar
The_Sundance_Kid The_Sundance_Kid is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Singapore
Posts: 545
Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

Hey everyone,

I have a Mercury RX in the 12th in Scorpio, but its 3 degrees from my Scorpio Asc, so I'm not sure if its really relevant to this discussion. The 12th house cusp is Scorpio, and Venus and Pluto also abide in the 12th. I think I am lucky in that they have no malefic aspects, except for a wide quincunx between my Venus and the Moon. My moon is in Gemini and my Mars is in the 3rd so there's a strong Mercurial flavour to my chart. Here are my experiences, I hope they help you with your understanding, and I've added my own aspects so that people can try to extract a more 'pure' understanding of Mercury Rx.

I often feel misunderstood. People do not understand the breadth of my words, they tend to focus on the minutiae and I do not- I see things in broad terms, but not black and white. I find it difficult to express my emotions. I day dream and I think about ways of expressing myself all the time. I think this is why I like astrology- I can use astrological symbolism to express the things I find I can't in words, and of course none of my friends can understand this. I can spend hours contemplating the sign 'Taurus' for instance, as I walk around the gardens of my college, heavy with blossom, the air still, moist and warm and scented. I feel secure and steady, ready to unfold slowly and walk to view what else has blossomed. I feel better able to express all that by saying to my friend 'its all so Taurus' than by saying what I have just written, so my friend does not understand what I mean.

I have a liking for surrealism, and magical realism, seeing the extraordinary in the mundance. I feel detached from what I see, and I am slightly short sighted, which gives me a more impressionist stance to what I see. Sometimes I prefer not to wear my glasses as I don't like seeing all the blotches and petty marks on walls and the individual outlines of leaves.

I think therefore that the 12th house Mercury retrograde thinks so much that he reaches a point where he cannot communicate all of his thoughts to another, as they would not understand the context in which he is speaking. He therefore creates his own symbols, further alienating himself from the language of others.

I always read that I should technically be good at poetry, but in all honesty I'm not. I'm trying to work at writing stories, but my Gemini moon gets bored. Mercury rules the sense impressions, the input to the brain and the 12th house shows breadth and the ability to see the collective. I sometimes imagine the whole world and think about what they are doing, the many millions asleep, the millions eating, the millions speaking, driving, crying, laughing.

I'm lucky in the lack of malefic aspects, all my Scorpio planets are trine Jupiter in Pisces, their house-ruler (I think?). I wonder what this means about my secret enemies (hopefully I have none, but I know there are people out there who dislike me.) What might motivate them? How could I stop that? Do I offend people?

In order to try and use my Mercury to its best, I am studying law, which requires a logical analytical and ordered, practical mind. To say it is a challenge is an understatement, but any suggestions into how best use my Mercury would be welcome.

All the best,

Sundance
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 04-27-2007, 02:12 AM
madribub madribub is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 35
Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

How do I find out if Mercury or any of my planets in the chart are Rx?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 04-27-2007, 02:52 AM
astro.teacher astro.teacher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 648
Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

There is usually an R beside the Planet in your chart when it is calculated and this indicates Retrograde.
__________________
Aaron Brody
www.antiquus-astrology.com
Antiquus Astrology
Astrology Books, Treatise, Readings & more!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Unread 04-29-2007, 03:17 PM
starlink's Avatar
starlink starlink is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: I live in peace
Posts: 6,350
Re: Mercury Rx in the 12th House

Retrogradation is indicated in the Ephemeries you use when calculating a chart by hand. You see a small "r" next to the planet's glyph.
When the chart is done on a computer, the "r" is automatically added next to the planet.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
12th, house, mercury

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pluto and Emotional Trauma Shining Ray Natal Astrology 21 07-27-2009 12:14 AM
Neptune Trine Moon Confused Introduce Yourself and Your Astrology Background 12 03-25-2008 09:02 PM
Mental Trauma and Uranus Shining Ray Natal Astrology 19 12-14-2007 02:16 AM
Planets in my chart 0WinN0 Aspects & configurations 10 03-17-2007 03:26 AM
Commonly Misunderstood Houses: 4th, 7th, 8th & 12th pixiequix Houses & cusps 0 02-04-2007 01:49 PM



All times are GMT. The time now is 12:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.