A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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david starling

Well-known member
aquarius7000 said:
Well, the whole idea of Uranus co-ruling Aqua or Pluto co-ruling Sco is also "Modernistic". :biggrin:
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Less and less so. At first, there was a lot of hesitation regarding considering the Outermosts as "full-fledged" planets, each with its own Domicile-sign. Now, as far as I've seen, most Mods go with single Domicile-rulers, rather than co-Domicile-rulers.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
I'm attempting to present the "nerdy" celestial mechanics that provide us with tropical Ages, as a separate issue from rulerships. If a tropical Traditionalistic astrologer wants to see it as 2 consecutive Ages, Capricorn and Aquarius, both ruled by Saturn, that doesn't change the sequence or the timing as to when one Age-sign changes to the other.
 
aquarius7000

aquarius7000

Well-known member
david starling said:
Less and less so. At first, there was a lot of hesitation regarding considering the Outermosts as "full-fledged" planets, each with its own Domicile-sign. Now, as far as I've seen, most Mods go with single Domicile-rulers, rather than co-Domicile-rulers.
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Yeah, perhaps it took the adopters of Uranus, Nep and Plu some time to fully transition over to those outers from the Mar, Jup and Saturn, so they played safe for a while and tried it out with both. As long as as they are able to see Ura, Nep and Plu through their mind's eye :lol:
 
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david starling

Well-known member
aquarius7000 said:
Yeah, perhaps it took the adopters of Uranus, Nep and Plu some time to fully transition over to those outers from the Mar, Jup and Saturn, so they played safe for a while and tried it out with both. As long as as they are able to see Ura, Nep and Plu through their mind's eye :lol:
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Actually one CAN see Uran as a celestial object with 20/20 vision, if one knows where to look!
 
aquarius7000

aquarius7000

Well-known member
david starling said:
Actually one CAN see Uran as a celestial object with 20/20 vision, if one knows where to look!
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The bit about "see with the mind's eye" was a cheeky way of saying, as long as one can understand (mind)..., and yes, also a play on the distance of the planets, which is why they are called outer planets.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
aquarius7000 said:
The bit about "see with the mind's eye" was a cheeky way of saying, as long as one can understand (mind)..., and yes, also a play on the distance of the planets, which is why they are called outer planets.
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Sat WAS the Outermost before Uran was discovered be a slowly moving planet instead of a visible fixed star.

There is one important change for any tropical Traditionalist interested in the astrological Ages: Tropically, this is NOT a Jupiterian Age, as it would be sidereally. The Jupiterian-ruled Age of tropical Sag preceded this Saturnian-ruled Age of Cap, which began with the "Dark Ages".

Paraphrasing Robert Zoller regarding the retrograde sidereal Ages, "If this is the best Age that Jupiter could provide, I shudder to think what the Saturnian-ruled Age of Aquarius will be like."

I, of course, expect a surprisingly good tropical, Uranian-ruled Age of Aquarius, which is already in the offing, as this tropical, Saturnian-ruled Age of Capricorn comes to a bumpy ending.
 
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Zeuses

Well-known member
david starling said:
Sat WAS the Outermost before Uran was discovered be a slowly moving planet instead of a visible fixed star.

There is one important change for any tropical Traditionalist interested in the astrological Ages: Tropically, this is NOT a Jupiterian Age, as it would be sidereally. The Jupiterian-ruled Age of tropical Sag preceded this Saturnian-ruled Age of Cap, which began with the "Dark Ages".

Paraphrasing Robert Zoller regarding the retrograde sidereal Ages, "If this is the best Age that Jupiter could provide, I shudder to think what the Saturnian-ruled Age of Aquarius will be like."

I, of course, expect a surprisingly good tropical, Uranian-ruled Age of Aquarius, which is already in the offing, as this tropical, Saturnian-ruled Age of Capricorn comes to a bumpy ending.
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What is the difference between sidereal and tropical?
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Zeuses said:
What is the difference between sidereal and tropical?
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Hope this explanation makes sense for you:

Sidereal astrology locates the Signs using a fixed star. For example, the most popular Western sidereal method places the exact middle of the Sign "Taurus" on the star Aldebaran, and all of the Signs are measured out from there, at an equal 30 degrees of arc along the Earth's orbital plane, as viewed from Earth.

Tropical astrology also measures out the 12, 30 degree Sign-intervals along the Earth's orbital plane as viewed from Earth, but aligns them using the Earth's seasons, which are due to Earth's "tilt" of its Equator relative to its orbit. So, each of the 4 tropical Cardinal Sign-boundaries is located using the Sun's position at the beginning of a season, and the rest of the Signs are measured from there.

So, the tropical and sidereal Zodiacs have the same 12, 30 degree Signs, with the same names, but which are located in a different way, along the same orbital plane.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
In the tropical Zodiac, it's the Age of Capricorn, Age-ruler Saturn.

In the sidereal Zodiac, it's the Age of Pisces, Age-ruler Neptune.

Since both Ages are occurring simultaneously, there's a rivalry between Age-rulers, as to the nature of the reality we share.

In Saturnian reality, Neptune is about illusions.

In Neptunian reality, Saturn is the great deceiver.
 
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Zeuses

Well-known member
david starling said:
In the tropical Zodiac, it's the Age of Capricorn, Age-ruler Saturn.

In the sidereal Zodiac, it's the Age of Pisces, Age-ruler Neptune.

Since both Ages are occurring simultaneously, there's a rivalry between Age-rulers, as to the nature of the reality we share.

In Saturnian reality, Neptune is about illusions.

In Neptunian reality, Saturn is the great deceiver.
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To be honest it all went over my head a bit but thanks for trying to explain again in this one.

So in whatever reality it has lasted about 2000 years?
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Zeuses said:
To be honest it all went over my head a bit but thanks for trying to explain again in this one.

So in whatever reality it has lasted about 2000 years?
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Since the Age-lengths vary by about 400 years:

Tropical Age ~1750 years
Sidereal Age ~2150 years,
it's merely a coincidence that they are now close to overlapping one another:
The (direct-motion) tropical Age of Capricorn, using just the astronomy, had its ingress in 406 A.D.

The (retrograde-motion) sidereal Age of Pisces had its ingress, according to most sidereal astrologers, anywhere from 221 A.D. to about 400 A.D., depending on the choice as to exactly where the 12, equal sidereal Sign-boundaries should be located by actual sidereal astrologers.

As convenient as it would be, the A.D. dating system itself just doesn't connect with the timing for either sort of Age, despite well-meaning efforts to make it appear that the Year 1 A.D. somehow marks the beginning of an astrological Age.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
It might sound strange that the transiting astronomical point being used to determine the SIDEREAL Ages, DOES NOT also transit the TROPICAL Zodiac--which is what makes it necessary to use a different astronomical point to locate the transiting Age-indicator for determining the TROPICAL Ages..

However, there is just such a situation regarding the location of any particular star in a current Chart: The stars DO slowly transit the TROPICAL Zodiac. But, they DO NOT transit the SIDEREAL Zodiac at all.
 
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Zeuses

Well-known member
david starling said:
It might sound strange that the transiting astronomical point being used to determine the SIDEREAL Ages, DOES NOT also transit the TROPICAL Zodiac--which is what makes it necessary to use a different astronomical point to locate the transiting Age-indicator for determining the TROPICAL Ages..

However, there is just such a situation regarding the location of any particular star in a current Chart: The stars DO slowly transit the TROPICAL Zodiac. But, they DO NOT transit the SIDEREAL Zodiac at all.
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It sounds interesting but complicated. Is it true that Uranus can be seen with the naked eye at the moment? I wouldn't be able to see it with my eyesight though
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Zeuses said:
It sounds interesting but complicated. Is it true that Uranus can be seen with the naked eye at the moment? I wouldn't be able to see it with my eyesight though
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The standard for "naked-eye vision" is "20/20". So, if your eyesight is "correctable" to 20/20, that counts as "naked-eye".

I saw Uran once, using a non-magnifying star-finder and a manual of astronomical star locations, on a very clear night when it was visible from my location.

As far as the subject of "Precession" is concerned , it requires the concept that "ALL MOVEMENT IS RELATIVE TO THAT WHICH IS BEING HELD IN PLACE BY THE OBSERVER".

So, for example, in both tropical and sidereal astrological Charts, the EARTH is HELD IN PLACE--it's called "GEOCENTRIC".

But, in terms of the Solar System, where the SUN is HELD IN PLACE--it's called "HELIOCENTRIC".

The result of using the relativity concept is, that the EARTH ORBITS the SUN in HELIOCENTRIC coordinates, where the Sun is held in place; AND, the SUN ORBITS the EARTH in GEOCENTRIC coordinates, where the Earth is held in place.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
So, using relativity, imagine the two Zodiacal settings superimposed on one another: Four of the tropical Signs are located by holding the four seasonal points, the Equinoxes and Solstices, in place. The other 8 tropical Sign-boundaries are measured from there.

Whereas, the sidereal Signs are located by using a particular star to locate one Sign, and the other 11 sidereal Signs are located from there.

Now, add in "Precession", which means that the Seasonal-points and the stars are moving, relative to each other.

The result is:
When the Seasonal-points are held in place, so is the tropical Zodiac. And, that means the sidereal Zodiac, affixed to a star, is rotating through the tropical Zodiac, with Direct-motion.

In contrast:
When the stars are held in place, so is the sidereal Zodiac. And THAT means, the tropical Zodiac, affixed to the Seasonal-points, is rotating through the sidereal Zodiac, with Retrograde-motion.
 
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petosiris

Banned
david starling said:
What would Jesus say? :innocent:
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Jesus sitting on the throne of God above the three heavens looking down probably sees the stars orbiting the sun which is orbiting the earth (all rotating around the earth daily, you are using this term incorrectly as synonym for revolving). :smile:

On earth and in the first two heavens, we can't tell for sure what is moving relative to what.
 
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CapAquaPis

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
The standard for "naked-eye vision" is "20/20". So, if your eyesight is "correctable" to 20/20, that counts as "naked-eye".


In the calendar year...2020, when Uranus is in Taurus which spells disaster to the world whenever that awkward planet squares a malefic Jupiter/Saturn in Capricorn-Aquarius range as well in 2021, the period from Dec 1 2020-Feb 28, 2021 involves the Sun crossing Sagittarius, Capricorn and Aquarius to interfere with energies of sign rulers: Jupiter (Sag), Saturn (Cap) and Uranus (Aqua).
 
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Zeuses

Well-known member
david starling said:
In the tropical Zodiac, it's the Age of Capricorn, Age-ruler Saturn.

In the sidereal Zodiac, it's the Age of Pisces, Age-ruler Neptune.

Since both Ages are occurring simultaneously, there's a rivalry between Age-rulers, as to the nature of the reality we share.

In Saturnian reality, Neptune is about illusions.

In Neptunian reality, Saturn is the great deceiver.
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I am not sure if I've grasped this but basically are they both about deceit in some way? One self deceit and the other being deceived? Or have I got this completely wrong and its all gone over my head again.
 
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