Will I meet him soon?

astr0quest

Well-known member
Hi, I'm new and trying to learn horary.

The question cast is "Will we meet?"

I am asking whether I'll meet an online acquaintance soon who I'm interested in.

Ruler of asc would be Mercury in 1H. Moon would be co-ruler. Both are conjunct in 1H. Does it mean anything?

If I use the 7H to represent him 7H, he would be represented by Jupiter in cancer. Does it mean anything if Mercury/Moon conjunct Jupiter in same sign but not in degrees?

Would appreciate some help and guidance.


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wca

Well-known member
How long does it take to get a reply here?

I can see you joined in June 2014 and have only 2 posts, both of which are in this forum. the perception of your response, whatever its original intent, is that you are expecting others to do the work for you and are waiting for someone to give you an answer. this is a learning forum, something contributors regrettably find themselves repeating in posts.

I'm happy to help you learn to read this chart, and you have my commitment that I will. there's an answer here and it's clear as day. but first, I expect you to do 100% of the work that you are able to do. I'm not worried about whether or not you're "right" -- I wish you could have seen me a year ago. what you need to demonstrate is effort. this is your question, and your chart. you are responsible for its delineation. before I jump in and provide my own thoughts, please think about and answer the following:

- first, scan your angles. what planets are there? what do you make of Neptune conjunct the MC?
- identify significators. you correctly identified Mercury as your significator, and Jupiter as the quesited's. your significator is in the first house, just entering Cancer but about a day or two from retrograding back into Gemini. Mercury just separated from a conjunction to Venus. what do you make of all that?
- his significator is Jupiter in Cancer, the sign of his exaltation (big hint there), in your second house (don't dwell on that). what does that bring to mind for you? keep in mind that you are the 2nd most inferior planet (2nd fastest planet), and he is the 2nd most superior (2nd slowest by traditional terms).
- what was the Moon's last aspect? that shows the most relevant part of the history that brought the question about. what's her next aspect? that will tell you what's coming.
- the Sun is on the 1st house cusp. the Sun is the sole illuminator in horary, and sheds light on the truth. what do you think his position on the 1st cusp means in context of the question?
 

astr0quest

Well-known member
Thank you. I appreciate your reply.

In my chart, I see Mercury making a sextile to Venus, not really separating from a conjunction to Venus as you mentioned. Then Mercury goes back into retrograde towards Gemini from June7. Moon is also moving forwards away from Mercury, and the separation increases while Mercury goes into retrograde. I read it as me having a change of mind even though emotionally I want to go ahead. Moon will then make an opposition aspect to Pluto, which again I can't figure out whether Pluto is used in horary.

Yes, Jupiter in Cancer is in exaltation which is a positive but I don't understand the 2nd house so that troubles me.

There are several things I don't understand and tried reading other threads. One of which is why when Sun is in the 12th house and on the asc but it is read as Sun is on 1st house cusp (and considered to be in 1st house).
 

wca

Well-known member
Thank you. I appreciate your reply.

In my chart, I see Mercury making a sextile to Venus, not really separating from a conjunction to Venus as you mentioned. Then Mercury goes back into retrograde towards Gemini from June7. Moon is also moving forwards away from Mercury, and the separation increases while Mercury goes into retrograde. I read it as me having a change of mind even though emotionally I want to go ahead.

retrograding significators do generally indicate that there will be a reversal and change of thought. it could also indicate that an opportunity that seems likely to develop somehow backtracks.

Moon will then make an opposition aspect to Pluto, which again I can't figure out whether Pluto is used in horary.

Moon is on her way to oppose Pluto, but first she will square a debilitated Mars. squares indicate tension, as you well know, but with Mars we expect fights, arguments. because Mars rules the 6th house (where we are made to feel small) these arguments may leave you feeling unvalued.

Yes, Jupiter in Cancer is in exaltation which is a positive but I don't understand the 2nd house so that troubles me.

well, exalted planets can be positive. that said, exalted planets show someone who doesn't bend and compromise, someone who feels they have no need to accommodate. Jupiter is a far slower planet than Mercury, which shows you are the one more keen to see the relationship take off. it concerns me that he's not reaching back to your significator in the way that yours is clearly reaching to his.

There are several things I don't understand and tried reading other threads. One of which is why when Sun is in the 12th house and on the asc but it is read as Sun is on 1st house cusp (and considered to be in 1st house).

it is traditional convention that a planet within 5º of the following house cusp is said to lend its influence to that house. so while Sun is physically shown in the 12th house, he lends his influence to the first house.

I want to quickly address 2 intro points that I listed before.

Neptune on the MC. indicates delusion, confusion, and inability to see a situation as it is.

Sun on 1st cusp. the Sun is the sole illuminating force in our cosmos. the reality of the situation your in will be made clear to you soon. the Sun brings truth, and he's well positioned here to do that for you. notice that the Sun is also connected to Mars. interesting, no?

to say you two would come together, we'd need to see mutual connection between your significators. that could be Mercury applying to Jupiter with Jupiter receiving Mercury, or a mutual application, or a translation/collection of light. unfortunately we see none of these things, and instead see Mercury retreating back into Gemini from Cancer where Jupiter is. in the end you're going to be the one to step back, but it will make no difference to Jupiter. this isn't as serious for him.

let me know if there are other aspects of this chart that you want to look at.
 

astr0quest

Well-known member
ok. Here's what I don't get.

I went through the recent threads and all say Jupiter in cancer is positive and a sign of interest but now you're telling me, there can be a twist and it isn't positive based on the speed of the planets.

If Neptune on MC is of concern as a delusion, does it say anything that Sun happens to square Neptune while Moon is going to trine Neptune before it squares Mars?

And doesn't Mars rule the 11th house?

If the Sun is important here, does it say anything if it is in the sign of Gemini, of which the ruler is my significator?
 

wca

Well-known member
ok. Here's what I don't get.

I went through the recent threads and all say Jupiter in cancer is positive and a sign of interest but now you're telling me, there can be a twist and it isn't positive based on the speed of the planets.

no, Jupiter in Cancer is not "a sign of interest" as you say. interest is shown in other ways (application from one planet to another, reception, emplacement, etc.).

Jupiter is the greater benefic and when he is well dignified as he is in Cancer his power increases. if he was angular, it'd be an indication that the horary was prepared to bring you good news. if we was collecting light for your significators it would show a planet well disposed to help and assist. in this case he's neither angular nor collecting light.

when the significator of the quesited is exalted, especially in a relationship or contract chart, it shows someone puffed up, self-concerned. arrogance is a word we see frequently in relation to exalted planets. Lilly says that exalted planets show, "a person of haughty condition, arrogant, assuming more than his due" (CA, p. 102).

so is there power to do good? certainly. but it's not ideal to see L7 strong in essential dignities and L1 peregrine and out of essential dignities.

about the speed of the planets -- that's a separate issue, but still relevant. when asking relationship questions, there are only a few planet combinations possible.

Moon - Saturn
Sun - Saturn
Mercury - Jupiter
Venus - Mars

Sun/Saturn and Venus/Mars are good matches for each other. the Sun is the central source of heat and light in the solar system, and Saturn is the most superior of the planets. their is an equality in power and importance between them. same with Venus and Mars -- they have similar speeds, are both only 1 sphere removed from the Sun (Venus just inside, Mars just beyond). one is the lesser benefic, one the lesser malefic. again, we see an equality in their positioning.

when you see Moon/Saturn and Mercury/Jupiter as significators, straight away you know there's an unequal power dynamic. someone is definitely doing much more of the chasing, and that person is signified by the faster, more inferior planet. you don't want to build a whole judgment on this one point, but it's certainly very reliable and is a great place to start.

If Neptune on MC is of concern as a delusion, does it say anything that Sun happens to square Neptune while Moon is going to trine Neptune before it squares Mars?

Sun is separating from a square to Neptune as you say, and the Moon applies to trine him. I wasn't going to bring this up, because the outer planets are really small accents in charts as opposed to key players. but, if there's anything to get from this it's a triple re-inforcement of the Neptunian principle of illusion, confusion, not seeing things as they are. impacts from the luminaries promises disillusionment in time.

And doesn't Mars rule the 11th house?

indeed he is, but notice he also rules the 6th. I'm not sure why you mentioned his rulership over the 11th, unless it's to say that the Moon's square to him might be positive. it's anything but. look at how Lilly describes an ill-placed Mars: "a prattler without modesty or honesty, a lover of ... quarrels, ... of turbulent spirit, perjured, obscene, rash, inhumane, ... unthankful, treacherous, oppressors, ravenous, cheaters, furious, violent" (CA, p. 66). there's a tendency for traditional astrologers to overemphasize the dangers shown in a chart, but even the most conservative astrologer would encourage you to take caution in engaging with such a Mars.

If the Sun is important here, does it say anything if it is in the sign of Gemini, of which the ruler is my significator?

well, if it does it's probably not the overriding message in the chart. I think the important thing here is that the Sun is aligned with the Ascendant, has the power to bring the truth to light, and your significator is preparing to retrograde back to a conjunction with him (combustion).
 

astr0quest

Well-known member
Do you view squares to be a NO and nothing else? I've read it could just mean obstacles.

Isn't Sun co-significator of the quesited? Or is it Mars for a guy?
Shouldn't Sun in Gemini, the ruler of my significator be more important than mercury going retrograde to combust which happens much later?

Although Neptune is delusion/illusion, I'm really wondering if it should just be read as one way. I have seen Neptune on MC used in work horary to represent creativity. What exactly does the 10th house represent in love horary?


Also, isn't my Mercury and Moon in his 7th house?


Actually I could use another astrologer's opinion.
 

wca

Well-known member
Do you view squares to be a NO and nothing else? I've read it could just mean obstacles.

absolutely not, squares signify tension and difficulties but they are not a "no" automatically. the Moon is moving to square Mars. the Moon shows us where the focus is in horary, but also gives us insight into how things will develop. Moon square Mars, when Mars isn't a significator of the querent or quesited, indicates some tense, difficult (square) development of the nature of a debilitated Mars (anger, rashness, frustration, fights).

Isn't Sun co-significator of the quesited? Or is it Mars for a guy?

no. this is a misunderstood principle. in Babylonian times the Sun and Venus were used to measure general cycles of fertility. when and where we use Sun and Venus (never Mars and Venus) is simple to measure general periods of fertility -- an increase in sexual activity, proclivity, etc.

Shouldn't Sun in Gemini, the ruler of my significator be more important than mercury going retrograde to combust which happens much later?

Gemini does not rule your significator, your significator rules Gemini. I suppose you could extrapolate this to say that the Sun's illuminating presence is in your sign, and your imminent return into Gemini once Mercury retrogrades argues a return to something more naturally fitting for you. (Mercury in Cancer is out of his element and fails to adequate express himself.) but I'm not even going that far, as I'm not sure that it's the headline here.

Also, isn't my Mercury and Moon in his 7th house?

they are, but what's the argument your making with that observation? it would be far better to see his planet in your first. seeing your planets in any of his houses just further reinforces that you're the one doing the chasing.

Although Neptune is delusion/illusion, I'm really wondering if it should just be read as one way. I have seen Neptune on MC used in work horary to represent creativity. What exactly does the 10th house represent in love horary?

no, Neptune rarely (if ever) signifies creativity in horary. that aside, it simply wouldn't be relevant for a relationship horary. and all houses have potential relevance in relationship horaries, to address your concern there. but the reason I brought up Neptune was because he is right on an angle, strong in influence and demanding our attention. please refer to this thread which very thoroughly covers reading Neptune in horary, and why its presence in a chart is less desirable than it seems to be in modern natal technique:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75389

Actually I could use another astrologer's opinion.

Neptune on an angle. but as you like.
 

astr0quest

Well-known member
The thread doesn't help much. If Neptune is on IC or 7th house cusp, I would accept it is delusion based on my question.

I did look up MC for love horary and it says it represents the astrologer's reputation.

Sun square MC here would represent disbelief in the astrologer's interpretation. I can see what that is about.

But now I find it very interesting that Neptune conjuncts MC. If Neptune is truly about deceit and delusion, then it means the astrologer is :bandit:.


I value your help so far. But I could really use another astrologer's fair assessment if anyone is up for it.
 

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
astro0quest,

I have to say that I am appalled at the way you've been speaking to wca in this thread. First you complain about not having your chart interpreted quickly enough, then you're going to insult the one astrologer who has decided to help you. If you want a chart interpreted quickly, you should pay an astrologer to answer your question. This is a learning forum, which implies you come here to learn. Very little in your posts thus far have indicated such a desire since all you want to do is argue about what the chart means when given negative testimony.

Sun square MC here would represent disbelief in the astrologer's interpretation. I can see what that is about.

But now I find it very interesting that Neptune conjuncts MC. If Neptune is truly about deceit and delusion, then it means the astrologer is .


I value your help so far. But I could really use another astrologer's fair assessment if anyone is up for it.

There is something I would like to make clear about this. Wca is not the astrologer for this chart; you are. You asked this question to yourself, so you are the astrologer whose interpretation and reputation is suspect. Had you asked wca this question and he cast the chart for it (as is standard horary) then, yes, he would be the astrologer of this chart. He is not, he is merely assisting the astrologer, which is yourself.

It is best that you change your attitude in regards to being helped by others or you will find your stay at AW (specifically the horary forum) to be very lonely and short.
 

tsmall

Premium Member
The thread doesn't help much. If Neptune is on IC or 7th house cusp, I would accept it is delusion based on my question.

I did look up MC for love horary and it says it represents the astrologer's reputation.

Sun square MC here would represent disbelief in the astrologer's interpretation. I can see what that is about.

But now I find it very interesting that Neptune conjuncts MC. If Neptune is truly about deceit and delusion, then it means the astrologer is :bandit:.


I value your help so far. But I could really use another astrologer's fair assessment if anyone is up for it.

Well, I'll chime in but I have a feeling you won't like my answer any better than the one you've already gotten. I'd also like to point out that in this case, this is your chart. You are the astrologer. Anyone else is just helping you interpret your chart. That said, if you choose to say that Neptune on the MC relates to the reputation of the astrologer you are consulting, or deciet on the part of the astrologer, that will hold true for any astrologer reading the chart, now wouldn't it? In this case it appears to be more along the lines of the orignial astrologer, the one who made the chart, not wanting to accept the answer the chart is giving.

wca has already given you quite a bit of information on how to interpret realtionship horaries (more than it looks like you are willing to listen to,) so I'll just address a couple of your questions, keeping in mind that the real answer is right here:

to say you two would come together, we'd need to see mutual connection between your significators. that could be Mercury applying to Jupiter with Jupiter receiving Mercury, or a mutual application, or a translation/collection of light. unfortunately we see none of these things, and instead see Mercury retreating back into Gemini from Cancer where Jupiter is.

Does it mean anything if Mercury/Moon conjunct Jupiter in same sign but not in degrees?

Yes, it means the Moon and Mercury are chasing an exalted Jupiter. Applying to conjunction. I believe you are making this harder on yourself as a beginner than you should. You are Mercury. You just entered Cancer recently (have you moved or changed something in the last little while?) and are now applying to Jupiter (the quesited) in the same sign. Does that aspect perfect? Does Mercury catch Jupiter? No. Mercury is applying, but will station and then retrograde back into his own domicile. This is called refrenation or revoking if you would like to look it up. It means going back on something that looked like it would occur.

Moon's next aspect in a chart will tell you what will happen next. Moon's last aspect will tell you what has recently happened.

What exactly does the 10th house represent in love horary?

The same thing it represents in all other horaries.
 

astr0quest

Well-known member
I am an astrologer, but not an horary astrologer. If I were to read the chart with what I know about horary , Neptune wouldn't be considered because I've not seen it being used.

If you want to insist on using it based on your horary methods, considering Neptune to be nothing but delusion and deceit, then i am returning you with what I know applying with your knowledge.



That said, if you choose to say that Neptune on the MC relates to the reputation of the astrologer you are consulting, or deciet on the part of the astrologer, that will hold true for any astrologer reading the chart, now wouldn't it?


The truth is Neptune is much more to me. Neptune is intuition and psychic and about creativity, great for astrologers.

Why be so offended unless you are so fixed on thinking that Neptune is nothing but negative?
 

wca

Well-known member
I am an astrologer, but not an horary astrologer. If I were to read the chart with what I know about horary , Neptune wouldn't be considered because I've not seen it being used.

If you want to insist on using it based on your horary methods, considering Neptune to be nothing but delusion and deceit, then i am returning you with what I know applying with your knowledge.

The truth is Neptune is much more to me. Neptune is intuition and psychic and about creativity, great for astrologers.

Why be so offended unless you are so fixed on thinking that Neptune is nothing but negative?

then let's remove Neptune from this. the link I provided effectively demonstrated why Neptune is not a benefic, harmonious planet. traditionally Neptune did not rule intuition, wisdom, intellect, knowledge. these were divided amongst Mercury, Jupiter and to some extent Saturn (as he is the most superior planet).

but the crux of this judgment is there without Neptune. if you only knew how ironic this is, but I regret even bringing Neptune up (even though this whole thread further illustrates what kind of issues Neptune brings).
 
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