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  #1  
Unread 02-06-2020, 09:02 PM
johnstevens johnstevens is offline
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So what are the general rules on Saturn?

Especially Saturn in the fifth house?


Restricts,blocks, delays, denies, is this correct?

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  #2  
Unread 02-07-2020, 05:06 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

It also disciplines and teaches.
It isn't necessarily dire.
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  #3  
Unread 02-07-2020, 11:03 AM
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Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnstevens View Post
Especially Saturn in the fifth house?


Restricts,blocks, delays, denies, is this correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Saturn is sometimes about old matters, tradition, black magic
and superstition.

'....Therefore, the nature of Saturn is cold, dry, melancholic, dark, of heavy harshness.
And perhaps he will be cold [and] moist, heavy, of stinking odor
and he is of much eating and true esteem.
And he signifies works of moisture and the cultivation of land
and peasants,
and village companions, and the settlement of lands...'
Benjamin Dykes translation of Abu Mashars GREAT INTRODUCTION
h http://theastrologypodcast.com/2019/...enjamin-dykes/

'...SATURN signifies magicians and masters of discord
and low-class men and eunuchs. And he signifies a great length of thought
and a scarcity of speaking and the knowledge of secrets
and one does not know what is in his mind
nor does a wise person make disclosures to him
about every obscure matter.
And he signifies austerity and the ascetics of religions....'
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Let me read some significations of Saturn when controlling the soul

according to Ptolemy:

Quote:
but if his position is the opposite and without dignity, he makes them sordid, petty, mean-spirited, indifferent, mean-minded, malignant, cowardly, diffident, evil-speakers, solitary, tearful, shameless, superstitious, fond of toil, unfeeling, devisers of plots against their friends, gloomy, taking no care of the body.
Quote:
Saturn, allied with Jupiter... superstitious, frequenters of shrines
Quote:
Allied with Venus in honourable positions Saturn makes his subjects haters of women, lovers of antiquity, solitary, unpleasant to meet, unambitious, hating the beautiful, envious, stern in social relations, not companionable, of fixed opinions, prophetic, given to the practice of religious rites, lovers of mysteries and initiations, performers of sacrificial rites, mystics, religious addicts, but dignified and reverent, modest, philosophical, faithful in marriage,
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...os/3D*.html#13


http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...os/3D*.html#13

Saturn seems quite religious to Ptolemy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Or maybe it is more cultural you know. At the place and time of Ptolemy, almost all cults involved sacrifices, and everyone was more or less involved in such, especially cults of rulers. That is why over half of the personality results in the chapter involve religion, Saturn and Mercury more than others, Jupiter is related to religion in moderation, as it fits dignified people.
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Unread 02-07-2020, 01:31 PM
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Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post


It also disciplines and teaches.
It isn't necessarily dire.

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...697#post920697



Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part II - Seven Stars

Saturn completes 2 sidereal cycles and 57 synodic cycles with 59 years.
It has retreating arcs of 7 degrees for 140 days.


Saturn is cooling and moderately drying, malefic, masculine and diurnal. Phainon makes those born under him dark-skinned, robust, black-haired, curly-haired, hairy-chested, and with eyes of moderate size, middling stature, having excess of cold and moist when morning rising, and dark, slender, small, straight-haired, with little bodily hair, rather graceful, black-eyed, having excess of cold and dry when evening rising, and in general, annoying, concealing, avaricious, ignorant, consistent, reserved, petty, malicious, having many anxieties, throwing themselves down, fond of solitude, deceitful, downcast, hypocritical, squalid, clothed in black, deviant, importunate, sullen and miserable. Saturn controls depressions and sluggishness, obstacles in business, interminable lawsuits, subversion of action, secrets, restraints, imprisonment, grief, accusations, tears, being orphaned, captivity, haunting, farmers, gardeners, workers of property, managers, seafaring and waterside trades, tax collectors, the elders, violent action, guardianship, great reputation, notable ranks, lands, administration of that which belongs to others, fathership of the children of others, bachelors, widows, childlessness, violent deaths by water, strangulation, dysentery, falling on the face, injuries and lower respiratory infections, the skeletal system, the lymphatic system and the immune system, building materials like wood and stone, lead, dark colours and astringent tastes. It chronocrator over late old age up to death.


Bibliography:
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...blos/home.html
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf
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  #5  
Unread 02-07-2020, 03:57 PM
tvsuryaprasad tvsuryaprasad is offline
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Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

What is the ascendant? Saturn’s lordship, where is it positioned and aspects in the natal horoscope matters....
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Unread 02-09-2020, 02:43 AM
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Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

An aspect that people most often ignore is that Saturn was considered a feminine planet. This was left obscure in history due to a strict anti-female bias, because what man can stand the fact that a woman, out of all things, is the one to deny them of their goals and desires?

Saturn in 5th, is indeed a sexual placement, and Saturn acts as a dominatrix to deny you of what you secretly desire the most: the feminine touch. The more you fight and yearn it, the more she tightens her grip and control over you, and crack the whip if you misbehave. Maybe the issue is that you try to control Saturn, or that you try to overpower her, which is a defeating mindset. Rather than trying to control her, let her control you and guide you--sometimes it's all about enjoying yourself.


Do you know what Saturn rules? Dungeons and lairs, dark caverns, cellars and basements. She also rules leather, belts, harnesses, ropes, and chains, and also fences and walls. What does the 5th house rule? "... is ruled by dramatic Leo, and it governs self-expression...attention, romance, sex, conception, fertility, fun and play (Ruled by Leo) source" What about Leo? The sign is associated with jungles, wild places, predators. Here we can see a picture starting to form, by meshing the rulerships and what they represent.

Saturn's harsh personality, dominating the house of attention, romance, "fun," and "play," takes on a serious tone. The fun and play becomes more of Saturn's nature: strict, rigid, and serious. In the house of Leo, traditionally called a bestial sign known for its ferocity and wildness, play takes on a different tone. It becomes rigid, serious, and inherently about power/human limitations, as Saturn rules such things. Even eunuchs, are part of Saturn's rulership. That should be a clue. Saturn's a harsh mistress and she's placed a chastity belt on you. You haven't felt a woman's touch, as Saturn's dominatrix personality prevents you. Saturn deals with harsh lessons and she's not one to be trifled with.

Last edited by Bunraku; 02-09-2020 at 02:46 AM.
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Unread 02-09-2020, 04:23 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
An aspect that people most often ignore is that Saturn was considered a feminine planet. This was left obscure in history due to a strict anti-female bias, because what man can stand the fact that a woman, out of all things, is the one to deny them of their goals and desires?

Saturn in 5th, is indeed a sexual placement, and Saturn acts as a dominatrix to deny you of what you secretly desire the most: the feminine touch. The more you fight and yearn it, the more she tightens her grip and control over you, and crack the whip if you misbehave. Maybe the issue is that you try to control Saturn, or that you try to overpower her, which is a defeating mindset. Rather than trying to control her, let her control you and guide you--sometimes it's all about enjoying yourself.


Do you know what Saturn rules? Dungeons and lairs, dark caverns, cellars and basements. She also rules leather, belts, harnesses, ropes, and chains, and also fences and walls. What does the 5th house rule? "... is ruled by dramatic Leo, and it governs self-expression...attention, romance, sex, conception, fertility, fun and play (Ruled by Leo) source" What about Leo? The sign is associated with jungles, wild places, predators. Here we can see a picture starting to form, by meshing the rulerships and what they represent.

Saturn's harsh personality, dominating the house of attention, romance, "fun," and "play," takes on a serious tone. The fun and play becomes more of Saturn's nature: strict, rigid, and serious. In the house of Leo, traditionally called a bestial sign known for its ferocity and wildness, play takes on a different tone. It becomes rigid, serious, and inherently about power/human limitations, as Saturn rules such things. Even eunuchs, are part of Saturn's rulership. That should be a clue. Saturn's a harsh mistress and she's placed a chastity belt on you. You haven't felt a woman's touch, as Saturn's dominatrix personality prevents you. Saturn deals with harsh lessons and she's not one to be trifled with.
When, where, and who considered Saturn feminine?
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Unread 02-09-2020, 04:28 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

The Moon was considered masculine in Ancient Sumeria. The word "Sun" is from a feminine version. The deity representing the Heavens was feminine in ancient Egypt, and they considered the Earth masculine. Venus as the Morningstar was considered masculine by the Romans.

Never heard of Saturn being considered feminine, though.

Last edited by david starling; 02-09-2020 at 04:39 AM.
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Unread 02-09-2020, 04:39 AM
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Wink Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
The Moon was considered masculine in Ancient Sumeria. The word "Sun" is from a feminine version. The deity representing the Heavens was feminine in ancient Egypt, and they considered the Earth masculine.

Never heard of Saturn being considered feminine, though.

My dear, you have to hone your senses of hearing. Hearing is a passive activity.

Secrets do not come to those who actively seek it, and certainly not to those who attempt to probe mother nature in such an agressive way by stripping her of her veil and thus her mysteries. "Never" is an aggressive word. However, google is free to use, for now.

https://studentofastrology.com/2016/...nine-part-one/

Listen, with an earnest heart, and her veil will come off naturally. This is the balance of the universe.
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Unread 02-09-2020, 04:54 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

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Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
My dear, you have to hone your senses of hearing. Hearing is a passive activity.

Secrets do not come to those who actively seek it, and certainly not to those who attempt to probe mother nature in such an agressive way by stripping her of her veil and thus her mysteries. "Never" is an aggressive word. However, google is free to use, for now.

https://studentofastrology.com/2016/...nine-part-one/

Listen, with an earnest heart, and her veil will come off naturally. This is the balance of the universe.
Now I've heard of it.

Thanks for the link. One difference tho--all three of the feminine versions rule Cardinal signs. But, the masculine have only one Cardinal-sign rulership.
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Unread 02-09-2020, 05:10 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

Saturn is generally about discipline, restrictions, obstacles, and set-backs.

Last edited by david starling; 02-09-2020 at 05:13 AM.
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Unread 02-09-2020, 05:23 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

The Greco-Roman goddess Rhea/Cybele, wife of Kronos/Saturn, could be considered a feminine version of the planet Saturn's characteristics. She was an Earth-goddess, and known as the mother of the Olympian deities.
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Unread 02-09-2020, 05:29 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

Interesting title for the thread, because Saturn is ABOUT rules and regulations.
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Unread 02-09-2020, 12:40 PM
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Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvsuryaprasad View Post

What is the ascendant?

Saturn’s lordship, where is it positioned
and aspects in the natal horoscope matters...


.
for example


when SATURN 1st/4th/10th/7th house

– ANGULARITY provides strength to act however
an ANGULAR house SATURN may be in any of twelve SIGNS

and so
the condition of an ANGULAR house SATURN varies
relative to SIGN STRENGTH
as well as
multiple other factors
such as
for example
whether chart is a day chart
or a night chart
as well as
the condition and strengh of the planet ruling the ANGULAR house
and
the aspects that planet makes relevant to SATURN
and so on
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Unread 02-09-2020, 03:06 PM
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Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

This is interesting: I'm female, (apparently) undatable though oft-followed by guys I don't respond to.


Saturn in the 5th House is the handle to the bucket of my House placements. I have 4 planets (Sun, Pluto, ruler Mercury and Uranus) in the 12th in Virgo, Virgo Asc.



I thought this Stellium, and the Moon square Pluto and several other things, was the source of my "serious" and lonely life, but apparently I've overlooked the Saturn effect!


Dang.
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Unread 02-09-2020, 06:37 PM
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Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irisiel View Post

This is interesting: I'm female, (apparently)
undatable though oft-followed by guys I don't respond to.
Saturn in the 5th House is the handle to the bucket of my House placements. I have 4 planets (Sun, Pluto, ruler Mercury and Uranus) in the 12th in Virgo, Virgo Asc.

I thought this Stellium, and the Moon square Pluto
and several other things, was the source of my "serious" and lonely life,
but apparently I've overlooked the Saturn effect!

Dang.
The following table
clearly illustrates
below the column headed HOUSE
the houses of which SATURN holds DOMICILE RULERSHIP

by the way
for any beginners who do not know
HOUSE = DOMICILE
i.e.
House is aka Domicile



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Unread 02-09-2020, 07:26 PM
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Student of Astrology Student of Astrology is offline
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Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

Quote:
So what are the general rules on Saturn?
Especially Saturn in the fifth house?


Restricts,blocks, delays, denies, is this correct?Generally speaking, Saturn denies or restricts, bringing 'what' (planet) he means into the domain (house/where) to be represented 'how' by what the 'sign' he tenants by script, reflects.
Think of the planets as representing the actors in a play. The signs would describe the role that each actor has and how he express his character, the houses represent the various settings of the play and the angular relationships between the planets, the aspects, represent the plot of the play. Each planet has a characteristic energy. That energy can be expressed either positively or negatively. The way that energy is expressed is determined by the aspects of the other planets to that particular planet.

Saturn in the 5th could mean you tend to attract and be attracted to firm older individuals romantically. You may be restricted in some way, or fearful of raising children. You may subconsciously, (the outer planets delve into the psychological imprints of our past that color our future) or mindfully impose or deny yourself fun times, happy experiences by subduing or holding back your true creative self, therefore opportunities to shine become few and result in a negative interpretation by your own evaluation and others. Nothing like being called a stuck in the mud, being a downer and practical at parties, you're the one that the other's give the keys to to drive them home when they are looped.

Hope this helps you understand the role's of the planets

All the best
Student of Astrology

Last edited by Student of Astrology; 02-09-2020 at 07:29 PM.
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Unread 02-13-2020, 01:32 AM
johnstevens johnstevens is offline
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Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

Yeah I really truly do believe the reason my life ***** is due to my Saturn in the 5th house.




I truly do believe that Saturn is easily the strongest planet as it sets all the rules that all the other planets have to follow.


I have a Capricorn in Saturn in my birthchart, can anyone tell me all they know about this position?

If you could, by chance?
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Unread 02-14-2020, 04:49 AM
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Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

Mr. JohnStevens

Have you considered therapy? At the time, Saturn was transiting my 5th house, which conjunct my 7th, 9th, and 10th house ruler. It may not be the same as natal Saturn in 5th, but it's somewhat similar in energies. This transit happened when I was young and recently moved to France, I quickly applied for jobs, and one of those jobs I landed an interview for was a clinic as a secretary. I was interviewed by the Mistress of the facility. I recall the first time she sat me down to tell me about the job and she had a very distinct look to her. Very refined, sophisticated, and mature. Her clients were very fond of her services, and she was quite popular at the time.

I found out she was a very Saturnine person. One day, and it's a long story that I'd rather not get into, I sneaked through the files in the office and somehow found her birthday. I guessed her birth time, but I put Saturn on the ASC of Capricorn, which described her an aura of distance and maturity, someone you couldn't quite reach if that makes sense. Whenever the secretaries and therapists would break for the day, we often talked to each other, and that involved rumors and gossip. Apparently that cold, strict, exterior (Saturn), had a very soft and sensuous side. What I never told anyone was that I found lace in her office cabinets--apparently she was very fond of wearing it. I'm guessing it gave her a sense of inner confidence. I just wanted to say that this describes the Saturn in 5th energies quite well: restraint, yet something more playful once you get past it.

After a while, I think she trusted me and started training me as an assistant. She assigned me to work with other therapists to gain more exposure, as they all had their own service they specialize in, and work with specific clients. Several months of one on one training, I was finally ready to work with her clients--never by myself, but I would work as an assistant to a therapist. I learned all what I could, and moved on to a different job. But it made me think, if Saturn hadn't made that transit to my 5th house, which activated my 7th house cusp, 9th house cusp, and 10th house cusp, drawing in a Saturnine associate, and working with population of more mature clientele, then I wouldn't have met such an interesting person.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 03:41 AM
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Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

I think that the fact that Saturn is feminine doesn't mean it is the same as it being a woman. Masculinity and femininity in astrology are interchangeable with active/passive, diurnal/nocturnal, dry/moist, etc.

After reading some online texts, I've come to the conclusion that Saturn is feminine because it is related to dryness, restriction, slowness, gloom, dark and dreary colors like grey and black. I personally relate it to depression. You wouldn't picture a depressed person with an active, outgoing and commanding personality, would you?

--

So, I'll put my two cents on the matter by saying what I've thought about Saturn after many years of knowing about it and reading many traditional and modern sources.

I think Saturn essentially signifies objective reality and time. It comes down to life being as it is. It comes down to cold hard facts, and therefore to logic and deduction. I think that's why it rules both Aquarius (logical side) and Capricorn (physical side). We are all born full of life, with ambitions, joy and innocence (Sun and Moon), but as time (Saturn) comes and sweeps us with constant reality checks, we lose that to some extent. This is why Saturn is traditionally the enemy of the Sun and Moon. It's the most distant of the classical planets, and it sure shows that our internal feelings and perceptions really are far from what is objectively true. We learn, little by little, to manage our egos, expectations and identities (Sun).

So, no, Saturn is not inherently a bad planet. It's just life being life. It's the physical and social laws that unknowingly make things the way they are. If Saturn wasn't there, life would be meaningless, because only through hardships people learn to properly express their egos, and let me tell you most people have problems with their egos. While not everyone will have to face the consequences for that, as Saturn simply doesn't care, most people will. The sad truth is that an afflicted ego, if not taken care of when you're still young, will be the cause for life's hardest hits.

Saturn is related to self-control, caution, awareness precisely because of this. Without these resources, we wouldn't be able to overcome life's hardships and wouldn't be able to appreciate what really is best for us in life. It's a process of reaping the useless and growing on what's well sustained and long-lasting.

A good portion of the world lives in extreme poverty. Death and violence is what drives most countries. Most people look only after themselves and most people are really ignorant. For god's sake, the extreme conservatives in the US perfectly depict this. They're drowned in their rooted values so much that they can't see outside of their own bubble. Feminazis aren't that much different either. IMO, they're higher on a spectrum of self-awareness, but they really don't make the cut either. I think that saying that more than ~85% of the population is ignorant is a right assessment. I'm not saying most people are completely uneducated, it's just that most people aren't educated enough. So, yeah, I see all of that as a reflection of cold and hard reality just being itself.

Saturn is death too, because it is the most limiting experience. But, if you take a moment to think about it, would you want to be immortal? Your life would cease to make any sense if you did. It's better this way. Everyone and everything will die and eventually change, even if it may look as if it's happening at turtle's pace. Earth and humanity will die too, and maybe even the universe itself. So it might be a fair trade. Nothing is eternal, but it can be meaningful, and it just so happens living a meaningful life is what makes people feel fulfilled and satisfied.

Last edited by obsidianmineral; 02-15-2020 at 03:54 AM.
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Unread 03-16-2020, 12:03 AM
UnluckyGirl UnluckyGirl is offline
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Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

Pasting this from another thread I just commented.

Saturn is supposed to be the serious, experienced and mature planet. The planet of time-patience. The master.

Experienced is someone who has literally experienced smth usually more than your average person. Saturn is earthy after all.. meaning practical.

With Saturn in houses specifically, what I see happening is that Saturn denies experience so the person might indeed take the house matters very/more seriously on a mental level but he's inexperienced on a practical level.

Example: Saturn in 8th H takes sex very seriously to the point of even never experiencing it.

What I see happening with Saturn hard aspects on the other hand, is that the native has relative experiences but those experiences lack the pleasure they should have, usually they get that joy gradually and later rather than sooner.

Example: Saturn square Mars takes sex seriously but experiences it within a "normal" age, the first experiences are probably negative or at least they lack pleasure so the native might not get what's the big deal about sex untill gradually the sex becomes gradually better and better.

Of course other planetary aspects to Saturn will change things. Same goes for Saturn's house placement, if another planet is in the same house it will change the outcome.

I draw the above conclusions after seeing Saturn in a purer form, meaning it was the only planet into that specific house and it was receiving maybe a sextile or a loose (more than 8 orbs) major aspect.

Depending on the house it is in, sometimes the weaker Saturn is by sign the better. For example Saturn in Pisces is way better compared to Saturn in Capricorn or Aquarius when Saturn is placed in the 5th or 8th H. Because it feels like in Pisces Saturn doesn't have the power to "ruin" the 5th or 8th house matters for the native as much as it does when it's in "stronger" signs.

On the other hand Saturn in 10th H will give way better results when in Aqua or Capricorn compared to Pisces.

I remember reading somewhere that a way to "overcome" your Saturn difficulties is to act as the exact opposite of your Saturn sign but like it's in the same house. So if your Saturn is in Aqua for example you have get yourself into the spotlight (Leo) in the house matters your Saturns lies in. If your Saturn is in Pisces you have to be practical (Virgo) etc.

I can't personally do it with my own natal Saturn.
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Unread 03-16-2020, 01:30 AM
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Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

I remember reading somewhere that a way to "overcome" your Saturn difficulties is to act as the exact opposite of your Saturn sign but like it's in the same house. So if your Saturn is in Aqua for example you have get yourself into the spotlight (Leo) in the house matters your Saturns lies in. If your Saturn is in Pisces you have to be practical (Virgo) etc.

I can't personally do it with my own natal Saturn.



This is interesting 🧐
So I have Saturn amongst other planets in first libra. I need to act like Aries in 1st house to overcome obstacles - that makes sense to me. That would be why I’m always ‘pushed’ more to my asset or side, situations etc arise for me to be that way.
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Unread 03-16-2020, 02:46 AM
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Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

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Originally Posted by johnstevens View Post
Especially Saturn in the fifth huse?
Restricts,blocks, delays, denies, is this correct?
What sign your saturn is in in 5th house ? Who rules 5th house ? What houses does saturn rule in your chart ?


Saturn is not equal to saturn in every chart and not to be compared - sign saturn is in, houses saturn rules and his apects are very important to consider and can make a big difference.


Saturn is the "Lord of Time" coming in his transits every 7 years to tell you where and for what the time is over.


Without a good and strong saturn no success in life. Saturn rules the spine and the bones.
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Last edited by Zora; 03-16-2020 at 11:24 AM.
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Unread 03-16-2020, 09:56 AM
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Smile Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

In the final analysis, Saturn is "The Grim Reaper". Paint any kind of happy-face on it you want, but the end result is the same.
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Unread 03-19-2020, 02:21 PM
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Re: So what are the general rules on Saturn?

My Saturn conjuncts Mars and Jupiter in Virgo...and all are in retrograde. The Saturn in Virgo is the opposite of what it would be in Pisces where my natal Mercury is and what it can do. Saturn in 3rd placements whether direct or retrograde exhibit an older or younger partner like 10-20 years of age differences within adulthood.
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