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  #1  
Unread 07-15-2017, 01:34 PM
The Cat astrologer The Cat astrologer is offline
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Saturn and intellect

In the books I read on traditional astrology I have the impression that Saturn has not enough consideration in the evaluation of the intellectual potential of the native.

It's true that most texts tell us that it predisposes to deep research, prudence etc when in aspect to Mercury and not bad placed or afflicted (because, if it is in a bad situation, it can bring stupidity).
But I think that, since Saturn gives logic and structure to our thought, it is rather important and, even when it doesn't aspects Mercury, if it is rather afflicted, with very low accidental dignity or, even more, if it is combust, it can seriously undermine the intellectual capacity of a person. Maybe it doesn't make you an idiot, if the other elements in the chart are promising, still I think that a weak Saturn can be a serious handicap.

What do you think?

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Unread 07-15-2017, 01:38 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

Hm. In modern astrology, strangely, Saturn in hard aspect to Mercury is supposed to be a sign of intelligence. Not much is said about Saturn on its own, though. The sort of organization and structure Saturn brings is not necessarily a sign of intelligence, but without it it can make life harder. Take a look at "executive disorder."
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Unread 07-15-2017, 01:50 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

Even in traditional astrology a "bad" aspect, according to some authors, is helping to intelligence since squares and oppositions are "energic" aspects, so a Mercury can be stimulated by it (well I would prefer a square rather than an opposition).
I partly agree with you that Saturn in itself isn't an element of intelligence, but his absence is felt.
Still, I think that it is related to logic so, in part, it has something to do with intelligence also on its own.
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Unread 07-15-2017, 02:06 PM
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Question Re: Saturn and intellect

Saturn gives out intelligence, esp. in two signs the planet rules over: Capricorn and Aquarius. And when Mercury's placements are in signs Sagittarius and Pisces - ruled by Jupiter, the person possesses higher than average intelligence. What about Saturn placements in Mercury-ruled signs Gemini and Virgo?
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Unread 07-18-2017, 12:25 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

Mercury is in detriment in Sagittarius and Pisces, so it isn't working as he would like.
Still, being in Jupiter's domicile, I guess that it could predispose to philosophy and to a wide ranging thought.

As for Saturn in Mercury's domiciles probably I can't say nothing that hasn't already been stated.
In Gemini, an air sign mutable sign, I think that Saturn can give a logic rather good for intellectual pursuits, more flexible than is usual for Saturn, ready to reexamine his views, at least on the secundary elements.
In Virgo, an earth sign, the logic probably would be more pratical, good to organize and improve matters, but less apt to thorical/intellectual purposes.
Probably in both signs Saturn's logic is particularly apt to link different things and topics in the right way.
It could give potential for new organizational patterns for example in trades system and organization, or well organized communication style.
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Last edited by The Cat astrologer; 07-19-2017 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Added something on Saturn in Gemini/Virgo
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Unread 07-20-2017, 08:34 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

I know someone who has Saturn in Capricorn in his natal chart, and his life time interest is collecting and reading books. Doesn't mean it has to do with his intellect, but it can increase it.
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Unread 07-20-2017, 11:13 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

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Originally Posted by Senecar View Post
I know someone who has Saturn in Capricorn in his natal chart, and his life time interest is collecting and reading books. Doesn't mean it has to do with his intellect, but it can increase it.
My son has Sat in Cap trine Moon/Jupiter in Taurus and he reads a novel a week, sometimes 2.

His Merc is in Aries in the 9th but does not aspect the Saturn.
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Unread 07-21-2017, 09:38 AM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

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Originally Posted by The Cat astrologer View Post
In the books I read on traditional astrology I have the impression that Saturn has not enough consideration in the evaluation of the intellectual potential of the native.

It's true that most texts tell us that it predisposes to deep research, prudence etc when in aspect to Mercury and not bad placed or afflicted (because, if it is in a bad situation, it can bring stupidity).
But I think that, since Saturn gives logic and structure to our thought, it is rather important and, even when it doesn't aspects Mercury, if it is rather afflicted, with very low accidental dignity or, even more, if it is combust, it can seriously undermine the intellectual capacity of a person. Maybe it doesn't make you an idiot, if the other elements in the chart are promising, still I think that a weak Saturn can be a serious handicap.

What do you think?
It is not given more importance than other planets, because Saturn's contribution in a general sense is equal to the rest of the planets, and specific cases should be looked only for the invidual chart.

It isn't that Saturn increases/decreases intelligence, but rather how the planet's qualities will mix into Mercury's overall thought processing skills.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 08:57 AM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

Einstein had Mercury in Aries tightly conjunct Saturn.

Isaac Newton had Mercury in Sag tightly square Saturn.

Both geniuses with difficult aspects to Saturn.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 09:52 AM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

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It is not given more importance than other planets, because Saturn's contribution in a general sense is equal to the rest of the planets, and specific cases should be looked only for the invidual chart.

It isn't that Saturn increases/decreases intelligence, but rather how the planet's qualities will mix into Mercury's overall thought processing skills.
Probably this is what many ancient authors thought, but I think that Saturn in more important than others planet in shaping intelligence.
I personally know a person with Saturn combust and had discussed with a person that knows a woman with Saturn combust and with both of them this is a rather noticeable situation. Indeed they are not stupid, but the effect of the combustion of Saturn renders reasoning with them a difficult and frustrating experience.
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Unread 07-26-2017, 05:10 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

Saturn definitely has impact on wisdom of native on its own depending on the house it is in and rulership.

Usually wisdom is part of intellect, and intellect is part of wisdom. Can someone be wise, and stupid? It should be looked at in that light.
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Last edited by Senecar; 07-26-2017 at 05:47 PM.
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Unread 07-26-2017, 06:50 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Einstein had Mercury in Aries tightly conjunct Saturn.

Isaac Newton had Mercury in Sag tightly square Saturn.

Both geniuses with difficult aspects to Saturn.
You can have some sort of aspect between Mercury and Saturn in 8 out of 12 signs, which renders 66% of the charts to have an aspect.
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Unread 07-26-2017, 06:56 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

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Originally Posted by The Cat astrologer View Post
Probably this is what many ancient authors thought, but I think that Saturn in more important than others planet in shaping intelligence.
I personally know a person with Saturn combust and had discussed with a person that knows a woman with Saturn combust and with both of them this is a rather noticeable situation. Indeed they are not stupid, but the effect of the combustion of Saturn renders reasoning with them a difficult and frustrating experience.
There is no reasoning as to why Saturn would be responsible for that. However this example would show case a particular planetary configuration. A lot of people have difficult personalities, without a combust Saturn.

While Saturn does certainly affect the mind, in the general sense it does it on equal level to any other of the planets configured with Mercury/Sun/Moon. Only on individual charts in which the planetary configuration is different for each person (some planets don't relate to other planets by aspect) would a planet be of more influence. But this is only for the particular placements inside a given chart, not as a general rule.

What I'm saying is that, you can't look at a chart and say:"oh Saturn square Mercury, he/she is very smart".
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Last edited by Dirius; 07-26-2017 at 06:59 PM.
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Unread 07-26-2017, 09:43 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

Dirius is correct. The first things I'd look for with Saturn square Mercury would be deafness or a speech impediment. But even that isn't always the case.

Saturn isn't mostly about intellect, though it can sober the intellect in some people. I think people associate Saturn with the melancholic temperament, and that sometimes gives intellect, but for intellect, I'd look first to Mercury (angular, in phasis, in a cardinal sign) and the moon, and their relationship. But even that isn't a certainty.
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  #15  
Unread 07-27-2017, 09:28 AM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

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There is no reasoning as to why Saturn would be responsible for that. However this example would show case a particular planetary configuration. A lot of people have difficult personalities, without a combust Saturn.

While Saturn does certainly affect the mind, in the general sense it does it on equal level to any other of the planets configured with Mercury/Sun/Moon. Only on individual charts in which the planetary configuration is different for each person (some planets don't relate to other planets by aspect) would a planet be of more influence. But this is only for the particular placements inside a given chart, not as a general rule.

What I'm saying is that, you can't look at a chart and say:"oh Saturn square Mercury, he/she is very smart".
Obviously you can't look a chart and conclude that someone is a genius only because Saturn squares Mercury.

And obviously Saturn isn't the only to blame for difficult personalities, and sometimes even bad effects that in a chart could be caused by Saturn, in others should be attributed to other influences.

My idea is that Saturn gives structure and logic and his weakness in a chart can give a way of thinking that lacks logic and structure, this is why I think that the combustion of Saturn is responsible for the example I gave.
As always the whole chart must be considered and yes, it's cohoperating with this, when there is a prominent characteristic this is often given by a concurrence of factors in a chart, so one could question what is the main element causing the effect, in my opinion with a lack of logic I give the main responsablity on the situation of Saturn, another can privilege another facet of the diamond.
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Last edited by The Cat astrologer; 07-27-2017 at 11:02 AM.
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Unread 07-28-2017, 04:18 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

I have mercury saturn conjunction in tight orb,mercury moon opposition in tight orb as well,so am I dumb or genius haha..
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Unread 08-02-2017, 10:42 AM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

Indeed both the alternatives are possible, we should consider the chart in its whole.
...You could also be a psycopathic person.
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Unread 08-03-2017, 02:57 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

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Indeed both the alternatives are possible, we should consider the chart in its whole.
...You could also be a psycopathic person.
''psycopathic person''lol...
I feel i am not lol
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Unread 08-05-2017, 12:10 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

I am glad for you
As I said this was only a possibility that would've required more confirmations in you chart.
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Unread 08-05-2017, 12:18 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

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I am glad for you
As I said this was only a possibility that would've required more confirmations in you chart.
Thing i have realised about my mercury saturn conjunction is when i try to explain something or talk about something,i give many details about the topic and i talk widely,once a friend of me told that to me too,i have felt sad though i mean i thought i am talking in a boring way...Maybe she meant it lol who knows.Saturn means also long process maybe that is why.
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Unread 08-05-2017, 12:26 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

This is not necessarily linked to Saturn; he could be also very laconic, I have too few elements to say if it is really Saturn.
Often water signs can give a similar influence (well, in that case, more than detailed, is an explanation that follows a twisted way).
Also Virgo can can be rather detailed.
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Unread 08-05-2017, 12:37 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

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This is not necessarily linked to Saturn; he could be also very laconic, I have too few elements to say if it is really Saturn.
Often water signs can give a similar influence (well, in that case, more than detailed, is an explanation that follows a twisted way).
Also Virgo can can be rather detailed.
I put my chart here for better looking.This detalied talking thing i have heard from a famous vedic astrologer.He said that when mercury is in loew degree conjunct saturn it gives this but when saturn has low degree it gives slow mental process and dull talking i dont know he can be wrong though lol.6th house shows virgo traits if it suits your theory...
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Unread 08-05-2017, 12:56 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

I do not know vedic astrology, so I can't say if your astrologer is right or wrong in affirming this (vedic astrology works in a different way and the signs follows the precession, so many planets would even be in different signs).
I do not consider the houses so related to the signs, a planet in 6th house for me hasn't necessarily Virgo characteristics.
I would rather consider Venus lord of the 3rd house (that rules communications) that is in square to Jupiter in Scorpio, but still very practical being in Saturn's domicile with a dignified dispositor and with a view "from above" or "detached" if you prefer, with the air sign Aquarius.
Venus is also combust by the Sun, this is interesting, do you talk much about yourself or about great problems (yours or of the humanity in general since the Sun rules the 12th house)?.
The Virgo ascendant I think that helps much the tendence of being detailed.
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Unread 08-05-2017, 01:33 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

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I do not know vedic astrology, so I can't say if your astrologer is right or wrong in affirming this (vedic astrology works in a different way and the signs follows the precession, so many planets would even be in different signs).
I do not consider the houses so related to the signs, a planet in 6th house for me hasn't necessarily Virgo characteristics.
I would rather consider Venus lord of the 3rd house (that rules communications) that is in square to Jupiter in Scorpio, but still very practical being in Saturn's domicile with a dignified dispositor and with a view "from above" or "detached" if you prefer, with the air sign Aquarius.
Venus is also combust by the Sun, this is interesting, do you talk much about yourself or about great problems (yours or of the humanity in general since the Sun rules the 12th house)?.
The Virgo ascendant I think that helps much the tendence of being detailed.
Sorry for my english,i was trying to say that if someone tells something with 5 words,i tell it with 10 words.It is like that.

Regarding other question i label myself as a real aquarius so this could lead talking about humanity problems as well so do I.I don't like talking about myself much,with several people i can but i like privacy.I feel like if venus deal with something in my chart it is mostly fuc*ed up lol sad to realise again she rules communication too lol.
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Unread 08-05-2017, 05:00 PM
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Re: Saturn and intellect

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Originally Posted by graay ghost View Post
Hm. In modern astrology, strangely, Saturn in hard aspect to Mercury is supposed to be a sign of intelligence. Not much is said about Saturn on its own, though. The sort of organization and structure Saturn brings is not necessarily a sign of intelligence, but without it it can make life harder. Take a look at "executive disorder."
I just looked up a few brilliant minds, all of them turned out to have Sat/Merc aspects.

Einstein: Saturn conjunct Mercury in Aries
Newton: Saturn tight square Mercury, Mercury in its supposed detriment, haha.
Darwin: Saturn loosely square Mercury
Descartes and Nietzsche: Saturn trine Mercury
Bohr: Mercury tight square Saturn, with Saturn in its supposed detriment.
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