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  #1  
Unread 07-22-2017, 07:57 PM
AllSeeingEyes AllSeeingEyes is offline
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Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

Would SUN TRINE PLUTO 6 degs be a wide or tight orb? And is six degrees strong?

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  #2  
Unread 07-22-2017, 09:14 PM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

Hi. Personally I think it's quite wide, but worth keeping in mind. There are some things that could make it more significant. One is if the Sun doesn't make many close aspects, and so this trine becomes a relatively prominent indicator of how the Sun is integrated into the rest of the chart (though there are also other things to explore if this is the case - mainly higher harmonic charts and midpoints). Another thing is that if the Sun and Pluto both make tighter aspects to another body or node, all three get pulled together, especially if that 3rd factor sits on the direct or indirect Sun/Pluto midpoint.

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Unread 07-23-2017, 12:50 AM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

Another factor I'd consider is whether the trine is separating or applying. The sun moves much faster than Pluto, so if the sun is six degrees earlier than an exact trine with Pluto, it's applying. If the sun is six degrees later than an exact trine, it's separating, that is, the trine has already happened.

Applying aspects in a natal chart are stronger than separating aspects, because an applying aspect will perfect by progression. Planets in a separating aspect will just get farther apart by progression. So the applying aspect will manifest much more clearly over the native's life.
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Unread 07-23-2017, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
Another factor I'd consider is whether the trine is separating or applying. The sun moves much faster than Pluto, so if the sun is six degrees earlier than an exact trine with Pluto, it's applying. If the sun is six degrees later than an exact trine, it's separating, that is, the trine has already happened.

Applying aspects in a natal chart are stronger than separating aspects, because an applying aspect will perfect by progression. Planets in a separating aspect will just get farther apart by progression. So the applying aspect will manifest much more clearly over the native's life.
How do i know if its applied or seperated? Is it if theres a plus next to the degrees symbol like 06'41+? Becauae i usually notice plus amd minus signs next to degree symbols.
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Unread 07-23-2017, 04:19 AM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

I just explained it. Is the sun approaching the spot 120 degrees away from Pluto, where the trine would be exact? Or is the sun leaving it? Because the sun is the faster moving body in this trine, it's the one we look at.

Approaching = applying. Leaving = separating.
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Unread 07-23-2017, 04:36 AM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

6 degrees is a pretty wide orb.

If the Sun is a smaller degree than Pluto, then the aspect is applying. If the Sun is a larger degree than Pluto, then the aspect is separating.
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  #7  
Unread 07-23-2017, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
6 degrees is a pretty wide orb.

If the Sun is a smaller degree than Pluto, then the aspect is applying. If the Sun is a larger degree than Pluto, then the aspect is separating.
Ah okay i see, so then its applied in my case.. i didnt quite understand at first so glad to have u reiterate
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  #8  
Unread 07-23-2017, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
6 degrees is a pretty wide orb.

If the Sun is a smaller degree than Pluto, then the aspect is applying. If the Sun is a larger degree than Pluto, then the aspect is separating.
Pluto is like 22 degrees or so and my sun is 6 degrees in leo.
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Unread 07-23-2017, 10:47 AM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

a) Is Pluto in Scorpio or Sagittarius?
b) Is there a 1 missing in any of the figures you gave?
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  #10  
Unread 07-23-2017, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
a) Is Pluto in Scorpio or Sagittarius?
b) Is there a 1 missing in any of the figures you gave?
Yes pluto in sagg. Familar to u?
And what do u mean a 1 missing in the figures i gave? A 1 refering to what?
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Unread 07-23-2017, 11:00 AM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

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Originally Posted by AllSeeingEyes View Post
Yes pluto in sagg. Familar to u?
And what do u mean a 1 missing in the figures i gave? A 1 refering to what?
6 Leo and 22 Sagittarius?You're pretty young m8 and that's way beyond a six degree orb. Try 16
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Unread 07-23-2017, 11:24 AM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSeeingEyes View Post

Pluto is like 22 degrees or so and my sun is 6 degrees in leo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post

6 Leo and 22 Sagittarius?
You're pretty young m8
and that's way beyond a six degree orb. Try 16

Pluto was at 22 Sagittarius 2005
so either aged twelve
or the data is incorrect
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Unread 07-23-2017, 11:30 AM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

22 Pluto Sagittarius was 15 years ago...**** we're getting old Jupiter
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Unread 07-23-2017, 11:38 AM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post

22 Pluto Sagittarius was 15 years ago...**** we're getting old Jupiter
Cheer up - so is everyone else
also Vettius Valens is even older


notice

the following data posted by the OP on another thread
with the same question
clearly shows
OP is twenty or thereabouts
because
JUPITER SATURN ARIES conjunction
plus those other planetary locations
could only have occurred end July 1996


FOR THOSE WITH NO EPHEMERIS
FREE 9000 YEAR EPHEMERIS FILES ONLINE AT

http://www.astro.com/swisseph/swepha_e.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSeeingEyes View Post

My Sun is in Leo in the 3rd house trine pluto in the 6th in saggitarius. At 6 degree orb. Im trying to see how this aspect manifests.

Sun leo
Moon capricorn
Mercury leo
Venus gemini
Mars cancer
Jupiter aries R
Saturn aries R
Uranus Aquarius R
Neptune Capricorn R
Pluto saggitarius R
Lilith leo

R= Retrograde

[note: merged duplicate threads - Moderator]
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Unread 07-23-2017, 11:41 AM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Cheer up - so is everyone else
also Vettius Valens is even older


notice

the following data posted by the OP on another thread
with the same question
clearly shows
OP is twenty or thereabouts
because
JUPITER SATURN ARIES conjunction
plus those other planetary locations
could only have occurred end July 1996


FOR THOSE WITH NO EPHEMERIS
FREE 9000 YEAR EPHEMERIS FILES ONLINE AT

http://www.astro.com/swisseph/swepha_e.htm
So the OP provided false information about
His Pluto placement?
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Unread 07-23-2017, 11:50 AM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post

So the OP provided false information about
His Pluto placement?

Apparently
- unless OP exercising self-styled "being sarcastic trait" aspect
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Unread 07-23-2017, 03:08 PM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

I think what the OP did was mistake minutes for degrees. In July 1996, when the sun was at 6 degrees Leo, Pluto was at 0 degrees 22 minutes Sagittarius.

That makes it a separating trine, not an applying one.
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  #18  
Unread 07-23-2017, 03:21 PM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

Forgot to mention: if you have a chart from Astrodienst, with the aspect grid they give you along with the chart, they tell you whether the aspect is separating or applying in the grid. If it's separating, it has an S, and if it's applying, it has an A.

The plus and minus signs tell you how many degrees it is from an exact aspect, but that alone doesn't tell you whether it's separating or applying.

If sun is at 6 Leo and Pluto at 0 Sagittarius, the aspect grid would say -6S. The sun and Pluto are 114 degrees apart, which is 6 less than 120, which is why it's a minus. But an aspect could be + however many degrees and still be separating. If the sun were at 6 Aries instead of Leo, with Pluto in the same position, it would be separating at +6, with the sun 126 degrees away from Pluto.

Last edited by Osamenor; 07-23-2017 at 03:23 PM. Reason: typo
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Unread 07-23-2017, 03:29 PM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

Everyone is saying 6 degrees Sun Pluto is a wide orb but the Sun is typically given a wider orb than any other planet, except maybe the moon. I've heard aspects apply to the Sun as long as they're within 10 degrees from many. In which case 6 degrees is more of a medium-sized orb, probably less significant if it's separating than if it was applying.
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Unread 07-23-2017, 03:56 PM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

About applying and separating aspects. Yes, with an applying aspect it perfects by progression; but this separating aspect perfects by transit, and a Pluto transit to the natal Sun during infancy may be strongly felt.
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Unread 07-24-2017, 03:54 PM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

I had another thought and a question about applying and separating aspects.

The thought is that you can divide the synodic (cjn to cjn) cycle into equal stages - usually 8 or 12 - and in each case each stage begins with the perfection of the aspect which has a similar meaning to that stage. For example if the lunation cycle is divided into 8 stages, the full moon phase begins at the Sun Moon opposition and ends when the Moon has moved through another 45 zodiacal degrees relative to the Sun. The full moon phase has the same meaning as the Sun Moon opp.

So in the case of the aspect being discussed in this post, because the aspect is separating, it is in the stage (of a total of 12 stages) which has the same meaning as the waning trine, and so the relationship between the Sun and Pluto would be 'more trinal' than it would be if the aspect were applying.

The question is, how do we decide when an aspect is applying and when it is separating as it moves back and forth across the point of perfection due to retrograde motion?

Last edited by miquar; 07-24-2017 at 04:00 PM.
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Unread 07-24-2017, 05:53 PM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by miquar View Post
The question is, how do we decide when an aspect is applying and when it is separating as it moves back and forth across the point of perfection due to retrograde motion?
In this particular case, we're talking about an aspect between the sun, which cannot go retrograde, and Pluto, which moves so slowly and spends so much time retrograde that every aspect it makes gets perfected over and over again. Pluto made exact trines to the OP's natal sun multiple times during the OP's childhood... so I think we can safely count this as a Pluto/sun trine. However this trine has manifested in the OP's life, it got well cemented very early in their life.
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Unread 07-24-2017, 07:43 PM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

Hi. My question was more general and I guess the issue is usually encountered when looking at transiting aspects to natal or progressed or directed positions

That reminds me - I forgot to say before that an aspect with a six degree orb will perfect by solar arc direction at about age 6 years, regardless of whether the aspect is applying or separating, because either way, one body will apply to the other.

Best wishes

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Unread 07-24-2017, 08:48 PM
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Smile Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
In this particular case, we're talking about an aspect between the sun, which cannot go retrograde, and Pluto, which moves so slowly and spends so much time retrograde that every aspect it makes gets perfected over and over again. Pluto made exact trines to the OP's natal sun multiple times during the OP's childhood... so I think we can safely count this as a Pluto/sun trine. However this trine has manifested in the OP's life, it got well cemented very early in their life.
Isn't that like saying a Natal-chart is modified during childhood by ongoing Transits? As opposed to the "snapshot" model, whereby it remains as is from the the time of birth? I'm mostly referring to the "well cemented" terminology.
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Unread 07-25-2017, 01:39 AM
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Re: Is sun trine pluto in 6 degrees considered wide orb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Isn't that like saying a Natal-chart is modified during childhood by ongoing Transits? As opposed to the "snapshot" model, whereby it remains as is from the the time of birth? I'm mostly referring to the "well cemented" terminology.
That's a whole other discussion, and if we go much in that direction, we should probably start a new thread for it. But yes, I guess it is.
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