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  #1  
Unread 07-22-2017, 02:42 AM
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Self hating thoughts rising

I have a theory that I want to discuss and see if it's possibly true:

My theory is that when people think bad thoughts about themselves, the kind of self hating thoughts they have is related to their rising sign. I've noticed from reading charts on these forums that people with Leo rising seem to be especially concerned with how they appear to others, looks, and/or people liking them. If a Leo rising person gets down on him/herself, they're likely to say something like, "I'm ugly!" or, "Nobody likes me!"

Since Leo is the sign of ultimate ego development that requires positive feedback from others, that makes perfect sense. And yet, I am a solar Leo, but when I think self hating thoughts, they're not about my looks and usually not about being (dis)liked. My go-to self hating thought, when I get down on myself, is some variation of, "I'm incompetent," or, "I can't do anything right." I have Capricorn rising.

How does that correlate with your experience? What kind of thoughts do you have when you get down on yourself, and what is your rising sign? Think there's any merit to this theory?

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Unread 07-22-2017, 02:43 AM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

I don't think so. I've hated myself for all sorts of reasons. Pretty much every reason imaginable.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 04:31 AM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

Have you read Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now? Highly recommended. Probably available for free in your local public library branch. He went through a time in his life when his self-loathing was overwhelming him, but he suddenly got the huge irony of his bifurcated personality: who was the self who hated the self? What or who is the "voice in the head" such that it could possibly stand in judgement of oneself?

I think the major "me" points in the chart are the ascendant, sun, and maybe moon. A planet opposite a "me" point is liable to be a big critic; whether it shows up as another person who seemingly exemplifies the opposite planet's characteristic; or as the internal nagging voice. Another 2-series planet can do likewise.

The best we can do is to thank that critical voice for sharing, and then live the best life we can. The internal nag might always be there, but we can learn to live a good life, anyway.

A happy Leo is playful, loyal, generous, and never forgets that it is royalty. To bring out your inner lioness, try wearing more gold jewelry, getting enough sunshine on your retinas early in the morning, and doing more of what gives you joy in life.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 04:36 AM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

BTW, Saturn is apt to show where and how we feel inadequate and not good-enough. I have Saturn in Virgo, who is known as the worst kind of nit-picking critic. However, we are generally the targets of our criticism prior to turning to anybody else. I have Virgo rising, generally in the 12th; but in the first in whole signs houses.
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C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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  #5  
Unread 07-22-2017, 05:27 AM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Have you read Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now? Highly recommended. Probably available for free in your local public library branch. He went through a time in his life when his self-loathing was overwhelming him, but he suddenly got the huge irony of his bifurcated personality: who was the self who hated the self? What or who is the "voice in the head" such that it could possibly stand in judgement of oneself?

I think the major "me" points in the chart are the ascendant, sun, and maybe moon. A planet opposite a "me" point is liable to be a big critic; whether it shows up as another person who seemingly exemplifies the opposite planet's characteristic; or as the internal nagging voice. Another 2-series planet can do likewise.
And do you see it relating to sign placement, or other chart factors? As in, the nagging voice will have a particular flavor depending on the sign its representation is placed in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
The best we can do is to thank that critical voice for sharing, and then live the best life we can. The internal nag might always be there, but we can learn to live a good life, anyway.

A happy Leo is playful, loyal, generous, and never forgets that it is royalty. To bring out your inner lioness, try wearing more gold jewelry, getting enough sunshine on your retinas early in the morning, and doing more of what gives you joy in life.
I didn't start this thread to seek advice on how to deal with self hating thoughts. I didn't even start it to talk about me. Rather, I'm looking to explore how self hating thoughts (we all have them at times) relate to our birth chart. If we have self hating thoughts, do our birth charts predispose us to having a certain kind?

That's not to say anyone's birth chart forces them to have self hating thoughts, of course. No more than anyone's birth chart requires them to become a doctor or a writer or an actor, it just shows what kind they would be if they become one.

(Edited to add: That bit about playful, loyal, and generous is a great reminder to me to not get too serious! I think that's what gets me down, when I get down: I tend to take lots of things very seriously and feel like I'm responsible for the outcome of it all.)

Last edited by Osamenor; 07-22-2017 at 05:40 AM.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 05:29 AM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

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Originally Posted by graay ghost View Post
I don't think so. I've hated myself for all sorts of reasons. Pretty much every reason imaginable.
Do you have a particular reason that you fall back on more often than others when you're in a self hating mindspace? Or is it really anything and everything?

To go with waybread's theory, it sounds like you have many planets acting as your inner critic.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 05:33 AM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
BTW, Saturn is apt to show where and how we feel inadequate and not good-enough. I have Saturn in Virgo, who is known as the worst kind of nit-picking critic. However, we are generally the targets of our criticism prior to turning to anybody else. I have Virgo rising, generally in the 12th; but in the first in whole signs houses.
Interesting: your Saturn sign is the same as your rising sign, and that's where you get your inner critic. I, on the other hand, have Saturn in Cancer in the seventh. I don't see how that would make my fallback self criticism about what I can/can't do.

I find it interesting how some people get very self critical about their looks, while others make it about what they do, or being liked, or who knows what. But it seems like we all have a tendency to, if we're going to get self critical, do it in a particular way.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 06:13 AM
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Smile Re: Self hating thoughts rising

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Originally Posted by graay ghost View Post
I don't think so. I've hated myself for all sorts of reasons. Pretty much every reason imaginable.
I think Capricorn might be a "self-hating" Sign. Virgo is "self-critical", but that criticism also applies to everyone else.
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  #9  
Unread 07-22-2017, 07:23 AM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

I can kind of see this... I don't think it holds any truth though.

When I'm in a self-deprecating mood, I always attack my intelligence or having to rely on others.

If what you said was true, I would have to have a Virgo or Aries Rising. But I'm a cap rising.

But even then, I've hated myself for almost anything imaginable. And it's usually a general kind of hatred that doesn't really have a purpose except to play the victim for attention, or wallowing in self-pity... so it could attack my intelligence one day (virgo), or my inability to hold a relationship (libra), or looks and appearance (Leo), or being dependent (Aries).

Although, I've never attacked myself for not being caring or empathetic enough (cancer). Which is opposite my rising sign.

so maybe your theory does hold true..
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Last edited by AppLeo; 07-22-2017 at 07:27 AM.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 08:10 AM
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Smile Re: Self hating thoughts rising

Having Saturn as your Ascendant Chart-ruler can't be easy. Neither can having Sun in Cancer, and the Moon , so important to Cancer-Suns, in Capricorn, under Saturnian rulership. I think Sun-Capricorns handle the tendency toward self-hatred much better than rising or Moon, especially if Venus is also in Cap. Although, they still have to deal with a lot of self-doubt and self-blame.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 08:25 AM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

How is having a Cancer Sun difficult?
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Unread 07-22-2017, 08:25 AM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

As a Virgo rising (), I believe there to be (Sun in 9th ) a very big difference between feelings (Moon in Capricorn) regarding self-criticism, self-loathing and self-hate. Virgo rising criticism says something about what one consciously sees as a personal imperfection (don't I know it???). Yet it is something that a person can correct if and when they are willing to do so.

Self-loathing and self hate would seem to go much deeper, often as a result of feelings aroused (planted within) by others. Wouldn't self hate and loathing arise through a comparison with that which to the individual is seemingly not so in themselves?

The content and reason for such deep emotions would make me personally look towards a strong Scorpio connection, and the positions and aspects made by its rulerS. It's something the individual would like to cut out of themselves.....that can find an outlet in the self harming, or worse, to cut off the inner pain they may live with because of it? Inner pain can find a relationship with Chiron.

'Bad thoughts'(or feelings) which everyone has at some time, yet find no physical outlet, would also make me look towards the position, aspects and eventual transits made to/by MEAN Black Moon Lilith. It can be, yet not necessarily is, such a spoiler of an otherwise integrated fusion of planetary functions.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 08:30 AM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

I think Venus would be a better indicator regarding negative thoughts on self-esteem.

Venus is our self-esteem, is it not?

Because we get our self-esteem from other people, and Venus has a lot to do with our relationships and love.

Self-esteem kind of doesn't exist if there's no one else is around to criticize or love it.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 08:36 AM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
How is having a Cancer Sun difficult?
There is a built in tension with the Sun being in the Moon's sign.

The Sun likes heat and warmth and light and likes to be the leader.

When placed in Cancer, it can feel like it's cramped, cold, restricted, and not really living up to it's solar potential.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 08:41 AM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
I think Venus would be a better indicator regarding negative thoughts on self-esteem.

Venus is our self-esteem, is it not?

Because we get our self-esteem from other people, and Venus has a lot to do with our relationships and love.

Self-esteem kind of doesn't exist if there's no one else is around to criticize or love it.
But the Ascendant is the window or the lens, through which everything else is funneled.

Venus is a part of self esteem, I agree. But the Ascendant is kind of a combination of all of the planetary placements as they are combined into the persona or temperament.


Ebertin says:

Asc: The Personality
The EGO in relationship with other people, especially within the environment.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 08:52 AM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
There is a built in tension with the Sun being in the Moon's sign.

The Sun likes heat and warmth and light and likes to be the leader.

When placed in Cancer, it can feel like it's cramped, cold, restricted, and not really living up to it's solar potential.
So from that logic the Sun is difficult in Scorpio and Pisces, and maybe even the Earth signs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
But the Ascendant is the window or the lens, through which everything else is funneled.

Venus is a part of self esteem, I agree. But the Ascendant is kind of a combination of all of the planetary placements as they are combined into the persona or temperament.


Ebertin says:

Asc: The Personality
The EGO in relationship with other people, especially within the environment.
Oh ok.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 09:08 AM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
So from that logic the Sun is difficult in Scorpio and Pisces, and maybe even the Earth signs.



Oh ok.
True, the Sun feels weird in water signs.

The difference is that the Sun and Moon are 'the lights' and are considered opposites. They are a pair, but a polarity.

So it is even weirder for it to be in Cancer. Just my opinion and experience, lol
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Unread 07-22-2017, 09:10 AM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
True, the Sun feels weird in water signs.

The difference is that the Sun and Moon are 'the lights' and are considered opposites. They are a pair, but a polarity.

So it is even weirder for it to be in Cancer. Just my opinion and experience, lol
It must be weird to have Moon in Leo as well.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 09:18 AM
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Smile Re: Self hating thoughts rising

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How is having a Cancer Sun difficult?
You mean Cancer Sun, Capricorn Moon?
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Unread 07-22-2017, 09:37 AM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

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You mean Cancer Sun, Capricorn Moon?
No, just Cancer Sun.

Kind of obvious why Capricorn Moon isn't the best.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 09:42 AM
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Smile Re: Self hating thoughts rising

Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
There is a built in tension with the Sun being in the Moon's sign.

The Sun likes heat and warmth and light and likes to be the leader.

When placed in Cancer, it can feel like it's cramped, cold, restricted, and not really living up to it's solar potential.
I don't get that fancy about it. I just see the Sun's position as indicating how the energy-type of the Ascendant is most effectively expressed. A Water-Sun usually does have a problem fully expressing the energy of a Fire-sign Asc., but the Modality plays into it also. For example, a Cancer Sun would be fairly effective with an Aries Ascendant--same Modality. I always look at the Sun-sign relative to the Asc-sign.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
No, just Cancer Sun.

Kind of obvious why Capricorn Moon isn't the best.
How effective is a Leo Sun in expressing Capricorn Ascendant energy? Seems like it's too fixed and fiery, too generous and out-front, to be fully effective.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 12:01 PM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
Do you have a particular reason that you fall back on more often than others when you're in a self hating mindspace? Or is it really anything and everything?

To go with waybread's theory, it sounds like you have many planets acting as your inner critic.
I don't know if you remember, but I have 7 planets involved in oppositions in my chart...

It is generally anything and everything. If it means anything I guess probably it all boils down to "I should know better."
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Reading a chart (or tea leaves or chicken entrails or whathaveyou) is a very different act than reading a book. When someone reads a book, the author had a particular intent that the reader is supposed to pick up on. The main message you get from reading stars is "neener neener" because otherwise they would have made themselves easier to read.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 03:05 PM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

Not really sure what you are saying here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
True, the Sun feels weird in water signs.

The difference is that the Sun and Moon are 'the lights' and are considered opposites. They are a pair, but a polarity.

So it is even weirder for it to be in Cancer. Just my opinion and experience
, lol
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Unread 07-22-2017, 03:22 PM
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Re: Self hating thoughts rising

I think the Sun would be the most important planet involved in thoughts of 'self-loathing, self-hate' etc since Sun rules the ego/self. Especially if the Sun is in hard aspect to Moon/Saturn/Pluto.


Eckhart Tolle's chart which WB posted about has Sun h1 opposite Saturn

His thoughts of 'self loathing' were so strong and so intense that it made him suicidal. He said to himself "I can't live with myself anymore".

Then he had his 'aha aha epiphany moment which changed his life forever.

He has Aquarius Rising.




.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
I have a theory that I want to discuss and see if it's possibly true:

My theory is that when people think bad thoughts about themselves, the kind of self hating thoughts they have is related to their rising sign. I've noticed from reading charts on these forums that people with Leo rising seem to be especially concerned with how they appear to others, looks, and/or people liking them. If a Leo rising person gets down on him/herself, they're likely to say something like, "I'm ugly!" or, "Nobody likes me!"

Since Leo is the sign of ultimate ego development that requires positive feedback from others, that makes perfect sense. And yet, I am a solar Leo, but when I think self hating thoughts, they're not about my looks and usually not about being (dis)liked. My go-to self hating thought, when I get down on myself, is some variation of, "I'm incompetent," or, "I can't do anything right." I have Capricorn rising.

How does that correlate with your experience? What kind of thoughts do you have when you get down on yourself, and what is your rising sign? Think there's any merit to this theory?
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