Discussion on the Natal Promise

• Only applying aspects with Sun/Moon count? Or do seperating aspect count as well?
• Does Sun square Midheaven count as an aspect for the natal promise? What is the rule regarding Midheaven if there is any. Or thoughts regarding it at least. I've got: Sun (Sag) Squ (Vir) Midheaven - orb: -3:04' - power: 11.10
• Sun aspecting Mercury does NOT promise marriage just a close/initmate relationship. She stated that this is because Mercury is faster than the Sun, fleeting, and that's what her experience holds. Makes sense. But does same rule/logic apply for Moon aspects with Mercury in a male's natal chart?
• Has anyone compared aspects in your chart for a relationship between the partner involved? Any correlation? If i'm correct in deducing the proper relationship markers in time and aspect an example of this would be that in my chart relationship with "Saturn Man" relationship is Sun (Sag) Con (Sag) Mercury - orb: +6:08' - power: 4.67) vs. in his chart I would be identified as: Moon (Can) Tri (Sco) Uranus - orb: +3:19' - power: 6.15)
• Are the aspects for natal promise in order? Larger orbs first or more power last? That's one of the ways I deduced which relationship I may be amongst the other aspects.

la dona said:

I was reading this thread while reading Rushman's book & I was hoping for clarification on some points that are of concern to me. Thanks in advance for your time.

Applying aspects for Sun in natal chart = Natal Promise for woman
Applying aspects for Moon in natal chart = Natal Promise for Men



Questions:

• Only applying aspects with Sun/Moon count? Or do seperating aspect count as well?
• Does Sun square Midheaven count as an aspect for the natal promise? What is the rule regarding Midheaven if there is any. Or thoughts regarding it at least. I've got: Sun (Sag) Squ (Vir) Midheaven - orb: -3:04' - power: 11.10
• Sun aspecting Mercury does NOT promise marriage just a close/initmate relationship. She stated that this is because Mercury is faster than the Sun, fleeting, and that's what her experience holds. Makes sense. But does same rule/logic apply for Moon aspects with Mercury in a male's natal chart?
• Has anyone compared aspects in your chart for a relationship between the partner involved? Any correlation? If i'm correct in deducing the proper relationship markers in time and aspect an example of this would be that in my chart relationship with "Saturn Man" relationship is Sun (Sag) Con (Sag) Mercury - orb: +6:08' - power: 4.67) vs. in his chart I would be identified as: Moon (Can) Tri (Sco) Uranus - orb: +3:19' - power: 6.15)
• Are the aspects for natal promise in order? Larger orbs first or more power last? That's one of the ways I deduced which relationship I may be amongst the other aspects.

I was told that I would have three main relationships. 1 with a Mar's man, the second with a Saturn guy, and lastly marry a man with Pluto aspects. When I saw my natal chart's transits, low and behold I had three aspects with the Sun. My last Sun aspect however is with Midhaven so I'm sort of concerned about that. Someone opined that my Uranus aspect may substitute but that doesn't flow with the theory right? So am I always a bridesmaid never a bride? =)

My aspects are as follows:

1: Sun (Sag) Squ (Vir) Midheaven - orb: -3:04' - power: 11.10
2: Moon (Cap) Tri (Vir) Midheaven - orb: -0:43' - power: 10.93
3: Mercury (Sag) Con (Sag) Uranus - orb: +0:20' - power: 9.52
4: Uranus (Sag) Con (Sco) Ascendant - orb: +2:49' - power: 8.96
5: Mercury (Sag) Con (Sco) Ascendant - orb: +3:09' - power: 8.25
6: Mars (Vir) Squ (Sag) Neptune - orb: +2:03' - power: 5.66
7: Venus (Cap) Tri (Vir) Mars - orb: +1:00' - power: 5.14
8: Sun (Sag) Con (Sag) Mercury - orb: +6:08' - power: 4.67
9: Venus (Cap) Squ (Lib) Pluto - orb: -2:59' - power: 4.59
10: Neptune (Sag) Sex (Lib) Pluto - orb: -1:56' - power: 4.07
11: Sun (Sag) Con (Sag) Uranus - orb: +6:28' - power: 3.83
12: Venus (Cap) Squ (Lib) Saturn - orb: +3:52' - power: 3.58
13: Jupiter (Sco) Con (Lib) Pluto - orb: +4:36' - power: 3.43
14: Pluto (Lib) Squ [Can] Node - orb: +0:59' - power: 3.05
15: Saturn (Lib) Sex (Sag) Neptune - orb: +4:55' - power: 1.08
16: Saturn (Lib) Con (Lib) Pluto - orb: +6:51' - power: 0.21

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la dona said:

I also added my natal chart w/transits & progressions as of today, if it would be of any help.

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The square between Mars and Neptune suggests that your natural tendencies to assert yourself may cause confusion and turmoil in your life. You may experience ups and downs in your feelings and ambitions. Vague or subconscious reasons prompting you to act may conflict with your sensitive feelings. This aspect stimulates interest in spiritual issues and produces a degree of psychic energy, even spiritual delusion. It's often associated with sexual anxieties, repressed sexual urges, or some degree of deception associated with sexual affairs.

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This aspect is one that suggests you may do best when you are alone. You should perhaps work by yourself or with as few people as possible. Preferably, you should work in a field such as medicine where you can satisfy a need to provide human service and remain detached. Develop your abilities to plan and control, and be more willing to accept responsibility when something goes wrong.

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bluebell said:

Hi , I have read this thread with great interest (thanks astrologer50 for the link)


I have the following Aspects but am still not clear how many actually count as actual relationships

- I am thinking only 2 due to the -/+ 3degrees plus I am not sure if the moon is included??
if so then I see 3 potential or "promised relationships" in my natal chart



Sun Aspects
Sun conjunction Saturn orb +2°22'
Sun opposite Moon orb -3°00'
Sun opposite Neptune orb -3°24'
Sun conjunction Mercury orb +8°55'
Sun inconjunction Jupiter orb +0°33'
Sun trine Uranus orb +7°14'
Sun trine Pluto orb -7°51'


Is this right?

any help/guidance on this is appreciated
xx

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Omnisphericus said:

This is very intriguing subject isn't it?

Well, I must mention in the very beginning in explaining the methods here that they are of medieval astrology type (Bonatti, Abu Ali, Al Khayat and etc.).
To say that the method is 'Traiditional' is really using very wide range of time span in which different techniques for delineating marriage were used.
For example, the Hellenistic Astrologer's (Valens, Dorotheus and etc.) have used methods on their own, methods which I'll probably (not even later) not explain on this thread, but we can open another thread for that matter.
As this section of Traditional Astrology is quite new and in its beginnings, we now trow out the techniques here and there and title them as "Traditional". I hope that in the future we can make sub sections of traditional astrology, such as: "Medieval Astrology", "Hellenistic Astrology", Renaissance Astrology" and etc..

There are certain rules in Medieval Astrology compiled which can give quite good and workable methods for delineating marriage. The rules one can learn for a short period of time, but the practice is what is needed in order these rules to become second nature of the astrologer's intuitive tool in delineating such things as Marriage in the chart. This is what I would like to do on this thread: to practice as much charts as I/we will have the time to do it.


The Technique

The Compound Almuten is what is very practical thing in almost all methods used in medieval delineation. It seems that Bonatti and other medievals were very fond on Compound Almutens.
I will first give delineation for male charts, and in some later post will explain the delineation for female charts.

Finding the Compound Almuten for Marriage:

Find the Rulers of all 5 dignities for these places:

1. 7th house cusp

2. Lord of the 7th house

3. Planets in 7th house (if any)

4. Moon

5. Venus

6. Part of Marriage (According to Hermes) (ASC + VE - SA) for Men.

The Planet which gets most points over these places is Almuten of Marriage.
But consider also if there are impediments to these places.
If there is affliction to 7th house (by some Malefic's square or opposition), to the Moon (aspect, combust, cadent, retrograde and etc.)

See if one of the individiaul Almutens over these places is joined to the Lord of the Ascendant or its Almuten or the Lord of the 7th or its Almuten.
If they are in trine or sextile, and if especially in reception, then the native will rejoice in living beautiful life with his wife according to his desire.

But if the aspects were without reception, or if the aspects were square or opposition, then the significations will be judged lower.

Bonatti:



Example:

This is the chart of Akihito, Emperor of Japan

His chart is given on astrodatabank site as a chart of a man with successful marriage.

First we make Compound Almuten for these places:

1. 7th House Cusp at 28 Gemini:
Mercury 5, 3,
Saturn 3, 2
Jupiter 3
Sun 1

2. Ruler of 7th, Mercury in 16 Sag
Jupiter 5, 3
Sun 3
Saturn 3
Venus 2
Moon 1

3. Planets in 7th - there are no planets here

4. Moon 20 Pisces
Jupiter 5
Venus 4, 3
Mars, 3, 2, 1
Moon 3

5. Venus 15 Aquarius
Saturn 5, 3
Mercury, 3, 1
Jupiter 3, 2

6 Part of Marriage at 29 Sag
Jupiter 5, 3
Sun 3
Saturn 3, 1
Mars 2

Total:
Mercury 12
Saturn 20
Jupiter 29

No need to calculate further, Jupiter is Almuten of Marriage.
Look how strong is that Jupiter up there on MC.
He is receiving the Sun by sextile and the Part of Marriage on the Ascendant.

7th house cusp not impeded.
Its lord - Mercury, cadent (but in the first sign), not afflicted by Malefic's square or opposition, not by combustion.
Moon - not afflicted.
Venus - Saturn receives here in Aquarius.
Part of Marriage not afflicted, but indeed highlightened by ASC and Sun.

Lord (and also Almuten) of the 1st, and the Lord (and also Almuten) of the 7th are in Sextile. Jupiter receives Mercury.

Quite fortunate chart for marriage.

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