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  #1  
Unread 02-29-2020, 10:17 AM
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Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

Is it possible to start learning the lessons of our personal Saturn placement before our first Saturn return that may yield a less harsh Saturn return?

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Unread 02-29-2020, 02:42 PM
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return



That's the sound of me trying to get some last minute responsibility in to appease some lame planet after decades of drugs, sex, and partying
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Unread 02-29-2020, 03:30 PM
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

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That's the sound of me trying to get some last minute responsibility in to appease some lame planet after decades of drugs, sex, and partying
Depending on what drugs, sex, and partying mean to you, and what's involved in your Saturn placement, Saturn might actually be involved in your drugs, sex, and partying. If any of it ever became compulsive behavior that you got no joy from but still felt you had to do, that's Saturn. Unhealthy Saturn, but still Saturn.

If this was just the usual meaning of drugs, sex, and partying--wild, irresponsible fun--Saturn stepping up in your chart would be the likely moments when either you reap consequences (for example, an illness resulting from drug use or unprotected sex, or getting arrested if you were doing anything illegal in this partying) or when you simply decide it isn't that much fun anymore. But it's not just Saturn return that does that. You could also experience something like that with Saturn making a transit to your sun, an angle, your moon, etc.

A friend of mine is coming into his midlife Saturn opposition and just had one of those things pop up: when he was young, he did lots of drugs, including the injectable kind, and now he has hepatitis C. He's known about it for a while, but it recently got worse and he had to get a new treatment and spend some time in the hospital. Part of the problem might be that he tends to overwork himself, which is also a Saturn thing.
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Unread 02-29-2020, 03:37 PM
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

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Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
Is it possible to start learning the lessons of our personal Saturn placement before our first Saturn return that may yield a less harsh Saturn return?
There are always Saturn lessons to learn. You can't learn them until they present themselves, though.

Saturn return isn't always harsh. When it is harsh, usually there are lots of heavy hitting transits going on at the same time. If Saturn is, for example, squaring all the personal planets right before it gets to natal Saturn, and Pluto is crossing the ascendant at the same time, that's ripe for all hell breaking loose. But if Saturn return means a Saturn square to all the personal planets, natal Saturn squares all the personal planets, so the native is always touching base with Saturn.

What can ease a Saturn transit is what you do with it. Saturn's energy is good for making commitments. It can also be good for decisively getting rid of what no longer serves you. If you make a commitment and/or get rid of old, no longer serviceable things in your life, you're working Saturn return energy, and it works in your favor.
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  #5  
Unread 03-02-2020, 07:04 AM
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
Depending on what drugs, sex, and partying mean to you, and what's involved in your Saturn placement, Saturn might actually be involved in your drugs, sex, and partying. If any of it ever became compulsive behavior that you got no joy from but still felt you had to do, that's Saturn. Unhealthy Saturn, but still Saturn.

If this was just the usual meaning of drugs, sex, and partying--wild, irresponsible fun--Saturn stepping up in your chart would be the likely moments when either you reap consequences (for example, an illness resulting from drug use or unprotected sex, or getting arrested if you were doing anything illegal in this partying) or when you simply decide it isn't that much fun anymore. But it's not just Saturn return that does that. You could also experience something like that with Saturn making a transit to your sun, an angle, your moon, etc.

A friend of mine is coming into his midlife Saturn opposition and just had one of those things pop up: when he was young, he did lots of drugs, including the injectable kind, and now he has hepatitis C. He's known about it for a while, but it recently got worse and he had to get a new treatment and spend some time in the hospital. Part of the problem might be that he tends to overwork himself, which is also a Saturn thing.
Looking at my own Saturn, it's in my 6th house and it's squaring my MC and opposing my Chiron. It's also retrograde, but i'm unsure as to how that affects this save for perhaps intense inner struggle and resistance to Saturnine qualities. I feel like that configuration has made it especially vital for me to start learning the values of Saturn


In my case, I've indulged in drugs, deviant sexual activities, partying and the such, generally things that could have killed me or drastically challenged my health and wellbeing. Perhaps that has to do with my 6th house Saturn and the fact that squaring my MC, I had a complete inability to pursue my true soul passions and desires while in the grips of those self destructive, indulgent habits


Saturn to me has been about learning the value of restriction. I'm the kinda person who aims for freedom and my thought process was that indulgence was freedom. Now I see that in the grips of my indulgent tendencies, I had no control over myself. Embracing Saturn has been for me about straightening out my general way of living in a way that's conducive to my mental, spiritual, emotional, and physical wellbeing and that will enable me to pursue my passions


I can see what you're saying. I typically thought my indulgence was due to my 1st house Mars or perhaps the squares and oppositions in my inner planets, but I think in the end it was just resistance to that Saturnine energy I so needed but I felt like I couldn't embrace it, that compulsion. Embracing it was about realizing I had the choice to be who I needed and wanted to be and learning that restriction is a form of freedom. It's not about restricting the self, it's about creating an environment conducive to greater joy rather than sucking all the joy and beauty out at once via indulgence. It's about being able to make choices rather than being a victim to compulsion and impulsion


Perhaps it is transits. In the end, I'm just hoping that starting to learn these lessons now and act on them will ease that Saturn return since it's approaching for me within the next 3 years




I get that overworking thing as well, though it may also be my Virgo nature. It's hard for me to know what my limits are and how hard I should be working, so I'm inclined ot either work myself ragged, or not work at all. I'm trying to learn that balance right now between work and relaxation and not feeling like I'm just being lazy if I don't want to work for some bit of time
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Unread 03-02-2020, 07:08 AM
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
What can ease a Saturn transit is what you do with it. Saturn's energy is good for making commitments. It can also be good for decisively getting rid of what no longer serves you. If you make a commitment and/or get rid of old, no longer serviceable things in your life, you're working Saturn return energy, and it works in your favor.
I've been working very hard on removing past self limiting beliefs. self limiting beliefs have been my number one obstacle in life. I'm definitely making that effort to get rid of what no longer serves me, destroying it, letting myself truly shine


I could always feel to sides of myself. One side of me is dedicated and determined and in power of herself, the other side feels powerless, feels hopeless, feels like she's bound for failure. It's all about rewriting the programming of my mind right now. I'm feeling perhaps this is a Saturnine thing. Maybe. Saturn is a bit elusive to me


it used to be my enemy by I swear, I'm starting to get it. WHile there needs to be balance, being in control of yourself, having autonomy,... that's freedom. Unrestricted indulgence makes one a slave to their impulses
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  #7  
Unread 03-15-2020, 11:55 PM
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

Saturn is supposed to be the serious, experienced and mature planet. The planet of time-patience. The master.

Experienced is someone who has literally experienced smth usually more than your average person. Saturn is earthy after all.. meaning practical.

With Saturn in houses specifically, what I see happening is that Saturn denies experience so the person might indeed take the house matters very/more seriously on a mental level but he's inexperienced on a practical level.

Example: Saturn in 8th H takes sex very seriously to the point of even never experiencing it.

What I see happening with Saturn hard aspects on the other hand, is that the native has relative experiences but those experiences lack the pleasure they should have, usually they get that joy gradually and later rather than sooner.

Example: Saturn square Mars takes sex seriously but experiences it within a "normal" age, the first experiences are probably negative or at least they lack pleasure so the native might not get what's the big deal about sex untill gradually the sex becomes gradually better and better.

Of course other planetary aspects to Saturn will change things. Same goes for Saturn's house placement, if another planet is in the same house it will change the outcome.

I draw the above conclusions after seeing Saturn in a purer form, meaning it was the only planet into that specific house and it was receiving maybe a sextile or a loose (more than 8 orbs) major aspect.

Depending on the house it is in, sometimes the weaker Saturn is by sign the better. For example Saturn in Pisces is way better compared to Saturn in Capricorn or Aquarius when Saturn is placed in the 5th or 8th H. Because it feels like in Pisces it doesn't have the power to "ruin" the 5th or 8th house matters as much as it does when it's in "stronger" signs.

On the other hand Saturn in 10th H will give way better results when in Aqua or Capricorn compared to Pisces.

I don't know what's happening in your chart, but I remember reading somewhere that a way to "overcome" your Saturn difficulties is to act as the exact opposite of your Saturn sign but like it's in the same house. So if your Saturn is in Aqua for example you have get yourself into the spotlight (Leo) in the house matters your Saturns lies in. If your Saturn is in Pisces you have to be practical (Virgo) etc.

I can't personally do it with my own natal Saturn and I know it's fatalistic but I believe that even free will is "calculated"/shown in our natal charts if that makes sense. Also if something is not "promised" in your natal it won't happen no matter what transits/progressions etc are going on. If something is promised you can see when it will happen deoending on the transits, peogressions etc. Your Saturn Return might actually be really good unless other hard asoects from transits are going on at the same time.

Can you stop doing drugs and indulging in such activities? they sound more like 5th H activities by the way, people I know like this have lots of Jupiter/Neptune aspects usually linked with 5th H since the activities you describe are 5th H activities.

If you could/were ready to stop it you would have already done it right? Not only you but all of us (depending on what we want/need to change).
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Unread 03-16-2020, 01:48 AM
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

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Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
Is it possible to start learning the lessons of our personal Saturn placement before our first Saturn return that may yield a less harsh Saturn return?

I am always really surprised to read all stories with people's saturn experience and fears.

I have myself saturn in scorpio in 5th house as ruler of 7th house and 8th house. Saturn opposes my moon, my mercury, my sun in 11t house, inconjuncts my venus in 12th house, trines my capricorn mars in 7th. Capricorn mars trines my moon, sun, mercury.

I never had problems in meeting people having friends and relationships - more the contrary - to get rid off persons. I was in a relationship first with 18 years of age - am married for the second time - each more than 20 years - in total more than 40 years now.

I always loved to work a lot, was successful in my work and earned a lot of money (sounds like a fairy tale - but is true - I am too old for lies and fairy tales).

I love saturn - he is a very reliable fellow also in his transits. When he comes along first time - he clearly lets one know for what the time is over and what has to be checked up whether it still serves own life. In retrograde coming back - saturn intensifies the pressure and third time coming back - one clearly knows - that it is better to follow his advice.

Saturn rules bones, spine and teeth and has his own ugly means to get one's attention by health issues - if one refuses his energy to take to develop in own lifepath. But what is a fact - you cannot make a deal with saturn - and refuse to leave your personal comfortzone - he is a strict teacher and is able to concentrate the focus on what is necessary during transit times.

But saturn is not equal to saturn in every chart and not to be compared - sign saturn is in, houses saturn rules and his apects are very important to consider and can make a big difference.

My enemy is neptune and jupiter. These transits I fear most. And I have horrible memory from.
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Unread 03-16-2020, 02:00 AM
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

And saturn in his transits is well known for initiating longlasting stable subjects - to relocate under a saturn trine you will find something longlasting - you like to stay for longer. Same with marriage.

But not and never I would relocate under a neptune transit again- I did once in my life and it was like hell. I never would have thought that - and I never experienced something like this before. But thankfully it is over now and I am safe again in a new home.


My ex-husband did win in lottery a considerable sum of money three times under a saturn transit.
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Unread 03-16-2020, 11:31 AM
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And saturn in his transits is well known for initiating longlasting stable subjects - to relocate under a saturn trine you will find something longlasting - you like to stay for longer. Same with marriage.

But not and never I would relocate under a neptune transit again- I did once in my life and it was like hell. I never would have thought that - and I never experienced something like this before. But thankfully it is over now and I am safe again in a new home.


My ex-husband did win in lottery a considerable sum of money three times under a saturn transit.
Hey Zora,
you are the second person I've known who enjoys Saturn transits. The first one has almost all of her planets in earth signs, so Saturn makes mainly trines in her chart. She also lacks Uranus and Neptune aspects because the orbs are too loose.

Your comment remindeds me hers because she also spoke about Neptune (and Uranus) transits to be the worst for her.

Me on the other hand I wish Neptune was the one changing signs every 2 years and Saturn changing signs every actually no.. I wish Saturn didn't change signs at all 😅 I have been ***** up by it in every area depending on the house T.Saturn enters, no matter if it's empty or not.

I don't have major natal Saturn aspects but I have lots of Neptune, Uranus and Pluto energy in my chart. T.Neptune has been my favorite because it's been harmless to me, T.Uranus my 2nd favorite because it didn't ruin me as much as the others (Saturn, Pluto, Jupiter and Chiron).

Do you havppen to have earthy chart/lack of Neptunian energy?
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Unread 03-16-2020, 12:48 PM
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

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Hey Zora,
you are the second person I've known who enjoys Saturn transits. The first one has almost all of her planets in earth signs, so Saturn makes mainly trines in her chart. She also lacks Uranus and Neptune aspects because the orbs are too loose.

Your comment remindeds me hers because she also spoke about Neptune (and Uranus) transits to be the worst for her.

Me on the other hand I wish Neptune was the one changing signs every 2 years and Saturn changing signs every actually no.. I wish Saturn didn't change signs at all �� I have been ***** up by it in every area depending on the house T.Saturn enters, no matter if it's empty or not.

I don't have major natal Saturn aspects but I have lots of Neptune, Uranus and Pluto energy in my chart. T.Neptune has been my favorite because it's been harmless to me, T.Uranus my 2nd favorite because it didn't ruin me as much as the others (Saturn, Pluto, Jupiter and Chiron).

Do you havppen to have earthy chart/lack of Neptunian energy?

I don't lack neptune and uranus - I am also very uranian three planets in 11th house - not a normal taurus and born with psychic skills inherited from my father who had it as well. I have a cancer ASC and uranus in 2nd house and neptune is part of my kite.


But neptune is a foggy guy in his transits- I once relocated under a neptune transit and I found the hell in this new home- I never experienced ever in my life.
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Unread 03-16-2020, 01:02 PM
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

Neptune is the big sea of possibilities you can find if he transits your planets - he also rules drugs and alcohol and limitlessness in this - depends on the spiritual consciousness of a person. Neptune is also the ability to preview more than other people do - is the highest possible outlook and widest range to perceive information- as he rules 12th house in natural zodiac.


What you get under a saturn transit is clear visible and always under certain rules.


Nepune is out of all orders and rules.
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Unread 03-16-2020, 02:46 PM
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

Quote:
Saturn is supposed to be the serious, experienced and mature planet. The planet of time-patience. The master.

Experienced is someone who has literally experienced smth usually more than your average person. Saturn is earthy after all.. meaning practical.

With Saturn in houses specifically, what I see happening is that Saturn denies experience so the person might indeed take the house matters very/more seriously on a mental level but he's inexperienced on a practical level.

Example: Saturn in 8th H takes sex very seriously to the point of even never experiencing it.
Yes, I also find it contradictory when the 'planet of experience' denies the experience from you

Quote:
What can ease a Saturn transit is what you do with it. Saturn's energy is good for making commitments. It can also be good for decisively getting rid of what no longer serves you. If you make a commitment and/or get rid of old, no longer serviceable things in your life, you're working Saturn return energy, and it works in your favor.
Saturn rules my 7th house and I got married during my Saturn Return (commitment). But it turned out it was a bad decision and since then the circumstances have been conspiring in a way so I can't just simply make it undone easily.
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Unread 03-16-2020, 04:16 PM
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

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Originally Posted by helike13 View Post
Saturn rules my 7th house and I got married during my Saturn Return (commitment). But it turned out it was a bad decision and since then the circumstances have been conspiring in a way so I can't just simply make it undone easily.

The question is more - who rules your 8th house marriage ? Saturn as well or uranus ?


And where is your saturn placed in sign, house and what aspects ?


The whole picture counts.
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Unread 03-16-2020, 05:14 PM
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

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Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
Looking at my own Saturn, it's in my 6th house and it's squaring my MC and opposing my Chiron. It's also retrograde, but i'm unsure as to how that affects this save for perhaps intense inner struggle and resistance to Saturnine qualities. I feel like that configuration has made it especially vital for me to start learning the values of Saturn

In my case, I've indulged in drugs, deviant sexual activities, partying and the such, generally things that could have killed me or drastically challenged my health and wellbeing. Perhaps that has to do with my 6th house Saturn and the fact that squaring my MC, I had a complete inability to pursue my true soul passions and desires while in the grips of those self destructive, indulgent habits

Saturn to me has been about learning the value of restriction. I'm the kinda person who aims for freedom and my thought process was that indulgence was freedom. Now I see that in the grips of my indulgent tendencies, I had no control over myself. Embracing Saturn has been for me about straightening out my general way of living in a way that's conducive to my mental, spiritual, emotional, and physical wellbeing and that will enable me to pursue my passions

I can see what you're saying. I typically thought my indulgence was due to my 1st house Mars or perhaps the squares and oppositions in my inner planets, but I think in the end it was just resistance to that Saturnine energy I so needed but I felt like I couldn't embrace it, that compulsion. Embracing it was about realizing I had the choice to be who I needed and wanted to be and learning that restriction is a form of freedom. It's not about restricting the self, it's about creating an environment conducive to greater joy rather than sucking all the joy and beauty out at once via indulgence. It's about being able to make choices rather than being a victim to compulsion and impulsion

Perhaps it is transits. In the end, I'm just hoping that starting to learn these lessons now and act on them will ease that Saturn return since it's approaching for me within the next 3 years

I get that overworking thing as well, though it may also be my Virgo nature. It's hard for me to know what my limits are and how hard I should be working, so I'm inclined ot either work myself ragged, or not work at all. I'm trying to learn that balance right now between work and relaxation and not feeling like I'm just being lazy if I don't want to work for some bit of time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
I've been working very hard on removing past self limiting beliefs. self limiting beliefs have been my number one obstacle in life. I'm definitely making that effort to get rid of what no longer serves me, destroying it, letting myself truly shine

I could always feel to sides of myself. One side of me is dedicated and determined and in power of herself, the other side feels powerless, feels hopeless, feels like she's bound for failure. It's all about rewriting the programming of my mind right now. I'm feeling perhaps this is a Saturnine thing. Maybe. Saturn is a bit elusive to me

it used to be my enemy by I swear, I'm starting to get it. WHile there needs to be balance, being in control of yourself, having autonomy,... that's freedom. Unrestricted indulgence makes one a slave to their impulses
Lykanized, it looks to me that your maturing viewpoint and actions are just what Saturn asks of you. I don't think you have much to fear about the return; I think you will be right in step with what it asks of you at that time.
Brava and best wishes,
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Unread 03-16-2020, 09:20 PM
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

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The question is more - who rules your 8th house marriage ? Saturn as well or uranus ?
Saturn and Uranus. Aquarius on the cusp.

Quote:
And where is your saturn placed in sign, house and what aspects ?
Scorpio 5th house. My Saturn aspects everything in my chart except my Pluto-Neptune duet. So in my life everything is Saturnian.
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Unread 03-17-2020, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Zora View Post
I don't lack neptune and uranus - I am also very uranian three planets in 11th house - not a normal taurus and born with psychic skills inherited from my father who had it as well. I have a cancer ASC and uranus in 2nd house and neptune is part of my kite.


But neptune is a foggy guy in his transits- I once relocated under a neptune transit and I found the hell in this new home- I never experienced ever in my life.
Have you maybe found what is the reason Saturn transits have a positive effect for you? There must be some explanation. I haven't found one because out of the many people I've known only that girl (she was on a forum) and you are the ones who have positive experiences from Saturn transits. Since you don't have lots of earth and you have Neptune and Uranus aspects then I don't kniw what it could be.
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Unread 03-17-2020, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by helike13 View Post
Yes, I also find it contradictory when the 'planet of experience' denies the experience from you
I know right? It doesn't make sense at all.

Quote:
Saturn rules my 7th house and I got married during my Saturn Return (commitment). But it turned out it was a bad decision and since then the circumstances have been conspiring in a way so I can't just simply make it undone easily.
Indeed when you start smth that is connected with a Saturn transit, the consequences/its effect will trouble you for a long time.
I don't take these astrological rules to heart but I've read that for people with Cap DSC it's better to get married after their Saturn Return.
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Unread 03-17-2020, 12:39 PM
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

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Originally Posted by UnluckyGirl View Post
Have you maybe found what is the reason Saturn transits have a positive effect for you? There must be some explanation. I haven't found one because out of the many people I've known only that girl (she was on a forum) and you are the ones who have positive experiences from Saturn transits. Since you don't have lots of earth and you have Neptune and Uranus aspects then I don't kniw what it could be.

Because I live with 5 saturn aspects from birth on- I know his energy like a near family member. And saturn is always of fairplay. Strict - but fair.
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Unread 03-17-2020, 02:08 PM
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

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I don't take these astrological rules to heart but I've read that for people with Cap DSC it's better to get married after their Saturn Return
Actually I married (a few months) after the exact transit, by the way 🤣
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Unread 03-18-2020, 08:16 AM
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

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Because I live with 5 saturn aspects from birth on- I know his energy like a near family member. And saturn is always of fairplay. Strict - but fair.
So you are basically heavily Saturnian just like the girl I mentioned. That's why I asked if you're earthy. It makes sense.

Strict for sure but far from fair.
It seems like Saturn gives you the "hard work and/or suffering" part for a long time and then forgets the "reward" part at the end. So all of your hard work was a waste of time, energy and patience.
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Unread 03-18-2020, 08:18 AM
UnluckyGirl UnluckyGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helike13 View Post
Actually I married (a few months) after the exact transit, by the way 🤣
Ouch!
Did it go retrograde?
I suspect when they say after your Saturn Return they mean untill T.Saturn has changed sign and house.
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  #23  
Unread 03-21-2020, 12:13 AM
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Zora Zora is offline
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Re: Learning the lessons of Saturn before Saturn Return

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnluckyGirl View Post
So you are basically heavily Saturnian just like the girl I mentioned. That's why I asked if you're earthy. It makes sense.

Strict for sure but far from fair.
It seems like Saturn gives you the "hard work and/or suffering" part for a long time and then forgets the "reward" part at the end. So all of your hard work was a waste of time, energy and patience.

You UnluckyGirl really don't understand much from saturn- but I don't care - as my self-experience is for sure longer than yours - and I would never have called myself unlucky. But you are.
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  #24  
Unread 03-21-2020, 04:40 PM
chiamaria chiamaria is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
Is it possible to start learning the lessons of our personal Saturn placement before our first Saturn return that may yield a less harsh Saturn return?
Saturn return isn't necessarily always harsh, even if you hadn't learnt its lessons before it comes along, and most people are in this boat (you don't know what you don't know until saturn return comes) and not everyone has a harsh experience either.

There was so much I had learned during mine and I had a rather gentle Saturn return, in fact a Saturn that was almost even rewarding me after all the **** I'd experienced in my life.
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