[I accidentally, and unknowingly, had the "Caps Lock" on while I was typing a good sized portion of the following. It took long enough to write it as it is, and I'm not in any mind to re-type it...so I ask that you please just deal with it.
The following is but further analysis of the 8:30 A.M. natal chart for Joe Biden. As it didn't offer any thing in support of the chart being that of Joe Biden, or at least not much, I was reluctant to post it...but as It did take a good deal of my time to assess the chart and write this, I figure, "why not"? I am in the process of analyzing a chart possibility that does include the Sign and degree I suggested makes more sense as to the symbolism for the 1th House cusp, and it does appear to be more promising, at this time. I'll be posting on that as well, when I get finished with it. Thank you, ptv
]
One can't, or rather one shouldn't, just go by a single House cusp in order to attempt to rectify a natal chart. It is a big factor, when the subject is well known of, and enough of their past history is known as well, but one has to be more thorough. When one is dealing with a rectification of just minutes, even seconds, especially seconds in time, the Sabian Symbols are the best means by which to make that attempt
So, the chart axis must be addressed. That's not always an easy process for this purpose. I have found it to be much easier to identify a person with their 12th House cusp, their Part of Fortune, Part of Catastrophe, for a few examples...but it does depend upon the person.
When I saw that the chart axis contained all four degrees of the Zodiac that Dane Rudhyar used as for an example in his chapter, "The Cross and the Star" of the book He wrote on the Sabian Symbols, "An Astrological Mandala", after I had finally got the exact time that Pluto conjunct the Asc. on the date April 2, 03 A.D. gregorian calendar, while in search of evidence that a man such as described in legend and accounts attributed to have been Jesus/Yeshu'a of Nazareth, hoping to produce astrological evidence, and demonstrate, that indeed there may have been such a man as that born in those times [from between 10 B.C. to 10 A.D.] I was quite excited, even though I hadn't yet noticed that it was Libra 01* on the Asc. and not Aries 01*, and that it was Cancer 01* at the I.C. and not the M.C., as well... as that is what Dane Rudhyar had, more or less, insinuated would be found... but I quickly calculated the Part of Fortune and that was all I needed to convince me as it was in the 19th degree of Pisces [ibid.] "A MASTER INSTRUCTS HIS DISCIPLE"... PERHAPS I SHOULDN'T HAVE LET MYSELF BE SO EASILY CONVINCED, BUT WHAT WERE THE ODDS OF BOTH THE CHART AXIS CONSISTING OF THOSE AS WELL AS THE CHART PRODUCING THAT PART OF FORTUNE AND, NOT TO MENTION, ON THE VERY DAY EDGAR CAYCE SAID THAT THE BIRTH ACTUALLY DID OCCUR? BESIDES, ALL THE SUBSEQUENT ASTROLOGICAL PARTS, THE 12th HOUSE CUSP SYMBOLISM, AND WHICH IN TURN PROVIDED THE ONLY DATE POSSIBLE ON WHICH THE CRUCIFIXION COULD HAVE BEEN ON. tHE DISCOVERY THAT THERE WAS AN INCOMPLETE GRAND SEPTILE ON THAT DAY IN THE YEAR 3 A.D. [OR C.E. FOR THOSE THAT PREFER] AND THAT THE GRAND SEPTILE MATRIX WAS COMPLETED BY TRANSIT ON THE VERY DAY RUDOLF STEINER SAID THAT THE PHYSICAL DEATH ON THE CROSS DID OCCUR, I.E THE 14TH DAY FOLLOWING HIS 32ND BIRTHDAY...WHICH TURNED OUT TO BE THE DAY AFTER HIS sUNDAY SPENT ON THAT CROSS, I.E. APRIL 16TH, 35 A.D. gregorian
I HAD TO READ DANES CHAPTER 'THE CROSS AND THE STAR" TWICE, THREE TIMES IN FACT, TO FULLY UNDERSTAND IT, AND I HAD TO UNDERSTAND IT IN ORDER TO RECOGNIZE WHAT I HAD PRODUCED.
I BARELY UNDERSTAND MY OWN, AS TO THE ASC., THE OTHER THREE POINTS OF MY CHART AXIS, THE ANGULAR HOUSES, I DO UNDERSTAND AND RECOGNIZE THEM FOR BEING ME, BEING WHO I AM. YET THE ASC. IS DIFFICULT... MY GUESS IS THAT IT'S DIFFICULT FOR ANYONE TO LOOK AT THEM SELVES OBJECTIVELY AS TO THEIR OWN PARTICULAR MANNER OF AWARENESS AND HOW OTHERS SEE THEM IN APPEARANCE AND PERSONALITY?
If wE accept 8;30 A.M. as having been the correct time of Biden's birth then as that time of birth gives an Asc at 03* Sag. 11' 02", i.e. the 4th degree of Sagittarius, lets take a look at the Sabian Symbol for the 4th deg. of Sag. as well as that of the 4th degree of Gemini, the Desc. If that is an accurate time of birth then the two then would symbolically represent , Joe Biden's "WHO' and "WHERE-TO" [OR 'WHOM-TO', as I have found, that sometimes, it to be an easier way of understanding the relationship of one to the other]
[ibid.]
"SAGITTARIUS 1°: RETIRED ARMY VETERANS GATHER TO REAWAKEN OLD MEMORIES.
KEYNOTE: The will to reaffirm the value of the struggle upon which civilization and group-achievements are founded.
Two important factors are revealed in this symbol: the men who have come together are Army men, and they are linked by actions and a type of consciousness that have roots in a common past. What we call 'civilization' is built by constant struggles against nature, for it seeks to wrench power from nature. This element of power is seen in its most obvious aspect in the military consciousness. Moreover, all civilization is built upon the accumulated products of the experiences of past generations of dedicated men who agree to follow rather rigid procedures of work. Veterans’ groups in all countries seek to rekindle in their members the old fire of well-fought battles; but the type of abstract or religious thinking normally related to the zodiacal sign, Sagittarius, also implies a special kind of 'fire'. It is a fire that burns the 'now' of natural living in order to build a greater 'tomorrow'. It is future-oriented It aspires to produce a
greater, wider civilization, even though it finds its roots in the harvest of mankind’s past. Comradeship and group activities are implied, but the togetherness is one of fighting spirits.
This is the first stage of the forty-ninth five-fold sequence of cyclic phases. The symbol should be understood in its widest and most basic meaning, not merely as the reunion of old comrades, but as referring to the very power implied in the process of civilization, as opposed to culture — thus to the PERPETUATION of the spirit of struggle for power."
...Okay, I guess I might be able to see that in the man as the "WHO" he is at his core, his basic "awareness" of the world seen from that perspective... [and that is also the Sabian for my Part of Increase and Benefits and my Astrological Part of Art.. I had studied to make fine art my career, perhaps I should consider putting a bit of time into that?]
But if that is Biden's Asc. then the 1st Degree of Gemini is his Desc., his "WHERE-TO", [or 'WHOM-TO", also, it may interest some of you to know that it is also the Sabian Symbol for the Astrological Part derived from that, proposed, true birth chart of Yeshu'a, that of the Hermetic Lot of Victory, which, if it is His natal chart, then quite literally should reveal what Yesu'a actively had to employ towards assuring a Victory in the battle against that which would deny Him from fulfilling His destiny, his spiritual dharma] check it out... [ibid.]
"GEMINI 1°: A GLASS-BOTTOMED BOAT REVEALS UNDERSEA WONDERS.
KEYNOTE: The revelation of unconscious energies and submerged psychic structures.
Within the relative security of a 'boat'. an individual person can learn to be aware of the as yet hidden contents of man's collective Unconscious — provided this boat (that is to say, his ego that separates him from the collective planetary psyche of mankind) has been given a glass bottom. The conscious mind must have become, in part at least, translucent. This translucency is not direct openness. The window of the mind remains closed, but through it the individual can become aware of the outside — here 'outside' means the psychic depths below the normal level of consciousness.
At this first stage of the 'discovery' process one can only speak of vision, not identification. The feeling is one of wonder. 'I did not know this could exist! How beautiful)' or 'How exciting!' A NEW DIMENSION OF REALITY is perceived by the earnest inquirer."
...as for that being Joe's astrologically impelled objective of personality and awareness transformation...? I honestly can't say one way or the other. I just don't know the man anywhere near intimately, or even publicly, to make that call.
As that 8:30 A.M. chart also produces an I.C. [the "HOW" interpreting the chart as to the mundane affairs of the Man, the "WHY" if we do so as for an interpretation dealing with his potential spiritual evolution... but this is, primarily, a mundane astrology sub-forum. So I'm focusing on that approach, here... and besides, I can find a lot more about his mundane affairs, and past history concerning that, than I can find anything, if anything at all, about His spiritual beliefs, aspirations, accomplishments, et al.] at 19* Pisces 54' 14", i.e. the 20th degree of Pisces. Can this Sabian Symbol, for the 20th degree of Pisces, be assessed to be an accurate depiction of as to "HOW" Joe Biden has applied himself to the mundane issues of his concern, but as He has also been in public service, in political office, for almost fifty years now, then perhaps, and to mundane interests of many of us Americans as well? [ibid.]
"PISCES 20°: A TABLE SET FOR AN EVENING MEAL.
KEYNOTE: An indication that in the end and at the appointed time the individual's needs will be met among those to whom he is linked by a spiritual (or biological) web of energies.
The significant element in this scene is not only the meal, but the fact that it is an 'evening' meal. To use traditional symbolism, after a long chain of personal existences the Soul returns to its spiritual home at the close of the day-of-manifestation. There it finds that which renews and amply sustains; the happiness of the 'beyond of existence' is experienced — if all has gone well.
This last symbol of the seventieth five-fold sequence promises a satisfying or fulfilling end to whatever one has been undertaking. As the life closes, the Soul-consciousness finds NOURISHMENT in the harvest of whatever, during the whole life, has been relevant to the archetypal purpose and destiny of the Soul — one of the myriad of aspects of the divine creative word which began the cycle."
Taken from the viewpoint of this being "HOW" Joe has been attempting to make that transformation from the "WHO" of his Asc., depicted by the Sabian Symbol' for the 1st deg. of Sagittarius to that of the Desc., the "WHERE-TO" depicted by the Sabian Symbol for the 1st degree of Gemini, that is what we must ask ourselves.
[At this point, in my post, I wish to disclose that the 20th degree of Pisces is the location of my natal Part of Revelation and it became a realization of mine [and thus one could also call it a "revelation", and particularly so, as for the reason that it required my learning that it is the degree for my Paart of Revelation and of the Sabian Symbol that goes with it, which gave rise for me to ponder the matter and come to any realization, as for the simple fact I had never before considered asking such a question about myself. I have to admit that it does seem rather foolish to gamble, to place even an occasional bet, a wager, on anything at all, or go to a casino, play the lottery or even bingo, with such as that symbolism being for that revelation. It's as if the Cosmos [God] is saying to me; "It's all covered so don't ask for anything else, anything more, as there is no need to". But while it is neither the M.C. or I.C. of my natal chart, the "HOW" and "WHY", for either interpretation, it still is the Sabian for the Part of Revelation, and eventually you should all come to realize that the entire set of Sabian Symbols, in fact what this science of Astrology is all about, is that it only concerns itself with your spiritual evolution, and to the mundane in as much as that is also a part of your life, a life that should be applied seeking spiritual evolution. ...and "revelation" has such an association with all matters pertaining to the spiritual concerns in life to begin with.
So, yes, I can see it, understand it symbolically as it applies to myself, to my own life, as such... and I am able to see it in retrospect too, and quite clearly so.]
But as to Joe's mundane affairs? ... I think the only way to interpret it, is to apply it very mundanely, in that it has to be himself that provides for that evening meal... at the end of the day... and that includes in his retirement as well as the present.
How did Joe vote on Congressmen and Senators getting a lifetime compensation, monthly, at the same rate as an active, presently in office, Congressman and Senator, receives as their pay...and those exclusive health care plans they voted and created for themselves? [I don't know if He did vote on such, how that was even made to be...I'm just saying, that if there was a vote and Biden was in on it. Then check and find out.]
In there might be the answer, that if such legislation were proposed and voted on and passed by Congress when Joe was a member of it, or oversaw it in the Senate, as Vice President.
He certainly seems to have taken well care of His Son, whom got that sincure position in that Ukrainian gas and oil company, at an outlandish amount of money for someone with no college education in the field and no known experience in the business world either.
So, maybe this is Joe's accurate birth data, after all? It does sound plausible.
But what of the M.C., the "WHY" of his having to apply his mundane activities is just as "HOW" illustrated so as to achieve that transformation from that of the Asc. to that of the Desc. or to arrive there, depending on you interpreting it as "WHOM-TO" or "WHERE-TO". The Sabian Symbol given us fr that is [ibid.]
"VIRGO 20°: A CARAVAN OF CARS HEADED TO THE WEST COAST.
KEYNOTE: The need of cooperative effort in reaching any 'New World' of experience.
It is difficult to know, from the original formulation of the clairvoyant's vision, the type of caravan of cars that was visualized; what seems to be clearly implied is a process in which a group of persons are journeying together — thus linking their consciousnesses and energies (the 'car' symbol) — in order to safely reach the goal of destiny. Here there is no longer any sense of competition, but an ordered and structured endeavor.
At this last stage of the five-fold sequence the past is entirely left behind; men cooperate in the great 'adventure in consciousness' in a TOTALIZATION OF PURPOSE AND EFFORT."
It just so happens that the 20th degree of Virgo is the location of my Part of Sudden Advancement, aka Hermetic Lot of Nemesis. If this is the "WHY" of Joe's transformation and as to the manner of "HOW" it must be done... yet keeping it, at least, in the back of our minds that it also symbolically should represent the "HOW" of Joe's efforts at spiritual evolution, and the why then being that "TABLE SET FOR AN EVENING MEAL"... which then give the perspective of it not being his own personal needs, r.e. that evening meal, that He makes an all out conscious effort towards, but rather everyones', especially as for the reason He has been in public office so long and in so many capacities.
Ask yourselves those questions, and decide for yourselves as to whether the 8:30A.M. chart can actually be the true natal chart of Joe Biden...
...but do wait until we've looked at at least the other two charts I posted images of. That for the ingress and egress, i.e. the in and out, of the, little more than four minute, window of time I think He may have actually been born during.
...but first, we do need to look at the Part of Fortune for this 8:30 A.M. chart in question. If you recall what I wrote above about how the Part of Fortune became such a convincing piece of the argument for my accepting that chart I produced in search of answers concerning the man whom allegedly became the Christ, or One with the Christ, then you know why I think it so necessary.
That Part of Fortune is derived to be at 06* Taurus 36' 36", that is the 7th degree of Taurus, it is an "Emotional/Cultural" Sabian Symbol, as so identified and designated by Dane Rudhyar, so it would be symbolically something Joe has to apply as an attitude, a part of his cultural identity, as to produce the most fortuitous circumstances as the outcome of his mundane activities. [ibid.]
"TAURUS 7°: THE WOMAN OF SAMARIA AT THE ANCESTRAL WELL.
KEYNOTE: The meeting of the traditional past and of the creative spirit pointing to the future.
The symbol refers to a most important, but usually narrowly interpreted (or interpreted away!) episode of the Christ mythos. Early in his ministry, Jesus meets a Samaritan woman at an ancestral well. This woman belongs to a tribe despised by the Jews; moreover, she is unmarried and therefore on the fringe of even her own society. It is to just that kind of woman that Jesus reveals that he is the Messiah: 'I am He', a revelation that he apparently will not bestow even upon his disciples, at least not in words. (Words in occultism are the creative factor.)
What does this mean? Jesus, as the Avatar incorporating the Christ-Impulse, came to replace the old tribal order with a new order based on universal Love. It is not to representatives of, or even to men still attached to, the old order that Jesus could reveal his spiritual, evolutionary and society-transforming status; they had instead to reach a point where they could discover his avatar-ship - as did Peter just before the Transfiguration scene. But to the woman of Samaria - who, in her openness to love's urgings, had already repudiated any narrow subservience to the old order - Jesus could reveal his function. The highest meets the lowest when this lowest is free from traditional bonds and open to love. The creative future descends first to that which has become chaos. An old order is never open to a new Revelation until it has accepted disorder in the name of that Power which subsumes all forms of order, i.e. Love.
In this second stage of the five-fold sequence, a contrasting element enters upon the scene. It is no longer a collective-cultural effort based on past knowledge — as in the preceding symbol — but a 'meeting' that introduces into the collective situation a totally new factor which transcends it. A NEW QUALITY OF BEING is revealed which renders the old patterns obsolete."
The 8:30 A.M. chart produces a Part of Catastrophe at 08* Gemini 24' 05". i.e. the 9th degree of Gemini. While it should quite literally reveal what "emotional/cultural" precept that was, or will yet be, the source for causing Joe's most notable catastrophe [although it has been the rule so far, that these"catastrophes" are necessary as a means to proceed from there-on, which in Yeshu'a's case was the cause of His crucifixion, as for my own, it was what caused me to become a believer, a student of, and practitioner of astrology.] [ibid.]
"GEMINI 9°: A QUIVER FILLED WITH ARROWS.
KEYNOTE: Man's aggressive relationship to natural life, as a basis for survival and conquest.
The bow and arrows represent symbolically man's ability to extend the scope of his conquest of nature and to kill enemies in order to build a larger base for the collective development of a culture and an organized society. Implied in the symbol of the arrow is the piercing of a target. The mind of man is essentially a trans-piercing power; it goes through the object toward which it is aimed. It seeks to go through and beyond the obstacles on its path, and this usually implies the destruction of the obstacle. At a higher level — as in the Zen practice of archery — the obstacle is the ego.
At this fourth stage of the fourteenth five-fold sequence of phases in the cyclic process of human existence we are shown the archetypal symbol of Man, the Conqueror. It may be a conquest of outer nature, or that of instinctual drives and of the limiting power of the ego. It is always CONQUEST."
Well, as I already wrote, I just can't "see it", this being Joe's true natal chart. This Part of Catastrophe in particular doesn't seem to have any relevance at all to me.While some of the other Sabian Symbols found in this chart and in association to the role they play, yes there does seem to be some relevance, some as to the more, than others, but seems within the realm of the possible.But there is also the question pertaining as to the Sabian for the 12th House cusp, that of [ibid.]"TELEPHONE LINEMEN AT WORK INSTALLING NEW CONNECTIONS.
KEYNOTE: The need to establish new channels of communication."
I'm having difficulty accepting that... however I did do some reading up on Joe's life to date, the past few days. I have to admit that I knew little about Him beforehand, and I apparently misjudged the man as for what I learned about his past, his personal and political life.
I can't say I'm in agreement with a lot of his beliefs and some of His past actions and all. But, I do have much more admiration for him than I had a week ago...but not enough to convince me to vote for him
...and I've yet to present what findings I have concerning my attempts at rectification.
I will get to that in the next day or two, or three... I will say this at this time.
Charts cast for between 8:18 and 8:23 are very interesting... Charts cast after a little past 8:19 that morning have the 18th degree of Virgo at the M.C. and that is the location of the USA's natal chart's Part of Soul/Spirit, the I.C. at the 18th of Pisces [where Neptune is presently dancing all over] is the same Sign and degree as the USA's Part of Catastrophe and the Part of Intelligence & Skill...and charts cast for a little before 8:22 for a number of minutes afterward all have the 8th degree of Gemini being the location of the Part of Catastrophe...and the 8th degree of Gemini is where the USA's natal charts' Part of Destiny is to be found.
So, you may want to continue following along here as I will get to those in the next day ...or two...or ...when ever?
Thanks for your interest and please vote, it does count, everyone of them does.
ptv