Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

GemwDepth

Account Closed
Why the houses in general are considered less important is because most astrologers still are ignoring the crystallization moment of the soul into the body which is the point that represents the true astrological set up, not the first breath. Thus many people have incorrect ascendants and house positions to begin with and therefore cant make sense of their astrological houses.

This is extremely interesting. How would you find or calculate the exact, or close to exact moment the soul "crystallizes" into the body?
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
The reason why people believe aspects are more important than signs is in many ways because they in longitude are the same throughout all of the three charts that together make up the individual on all spiritual levels, which is the tropical, sidereal and draconic chart.

Why the houses in general are considered less important is because most astrologers still are ignoring the crystallization moment of the soul into the body which is the point that represents the true astrological set up, not the first breath. Thus many people have incorrect ascendants and house positions to begin with and therefore cant make sense of their astrological houses.


Y
Whilst I understand the reasoning you provide and in part also agree with the contention between the considering the first breath vs. the moment the soul enters the body, how does one decide when the latter happens? I have done little research on the latter, so if you have any sources (books or websites) you can share, would be nice.

Not only the above, but also the fact that people use different house systems, moves the planets to different houses. However, the sign placements regardless remain the same and are very important.
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
I thought we already agreed everyone has their own methodology and astrology is so nuanced and layered one can't assert one single methodology or position as "correct" across the board.

Then you have to add the factor of personal bias according to the astrologer's own chart, their specific mental processing and reasoning patterns.

A Virgoan will have one approach and respond to data oriented approaches much better, wheres a Cancerian influenced astrologer will be much more intuitive, perhaps absorbing impressions and energies before coming to a conclusion.

I think there's a more objective approach that works for all signs' personal approaches and that's planet aspects.

The point is to learn and test various methods, and find the one you respond to best. And be open minded to new discoveries.

I have been open-minded.

For example, back to Tyl again. He places a huge weight to the Sun/Moon blend in astrological interpretations. Asking all his students to memorize 144 different Sun/Moon combinations by sign.

At first I thought this approach was insane, wholly unnecessary and against all the rules of modern astrology. After using his approach, thinking about how the energy of the Sun/Moon works together in a person's life, and the underlying rationale, then testing it, I have to agree it has a lot of situational validity.

It's still not the first tool in my toolbox I jump to though, as I am just more comfortable with other methods (other tools) of chart delineation first. But it has strong reason and validity and whomever using it will never be wrong.

I think the zodiac signs are wishy washy, as I've said before. Vattius Vatenis or whatever his name his has a very different interpretation of Leo then say, a modern astrologer like Linda Goodman. Like I don't know what do think when someone has their Sun in Leo anymore.

And then I thought, well forget assigning characteristics to people based on planets in the signs. Maybe planets in the signs are important for dignities.. but I've always found dignities to not make any sense at all. Like lady gaga's mercury in pisces in the 10th house... I've found people with mercury in pisces to actually be geniuses and not mentally messed up in any way as the original description would say.

And on top of it all, astrologers don't even agree on which zodiac wheel to use, the tropical or sidereal... Cuz technically the sky has been broken up into 12 signs. Why not two signs? Or 24 signs? Or 360 signs for each degree? And then it makes you wonder how someone who is a 29 degree leo is very different from someone who has their sun 0 degrees virgo? Is the zodiac in shades or is it blocky. I swear it's in shades. But if it's in shades, then we need to really need to break up the leo sign into 3 signs of its own. Compare later leos to earlier leos...

But as I've said, the astrologer I really like David Cochrane said that zodiac signs really don't tell you anything about someone's personality.. All it does is give people a kind of lens...

Still think ALeo's proposed method should be translated into a game, we can draw from it newer insights seeing it in action, plus its fun, than arguing on theory. Right / wrong isn't very productive if we are all coming from different mental processing patterns that responds to different things, with different levels of astrological experience testing conceptual methods.

I created the thread for the game. I don't know why you haven't posted on it yet.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
Well sorry it doesn't make any sense to me. I doubt anyone else who has a detriment moon in 12th house is going to have insomnia and women enemies.
Again, it immensely helps to practise reading the complete sentence, then understanding it completely and only then, only then getting down to responding to it. When did I ever say my Moon was in the 12th house? Please point that out. Obviously if the information that registers with one is incorrect, how can the interpretation there of be correct? I again refer back to my post.

I can vouch for my own life too and I have my birth certificate as well and have found zodiac signs and houses to not nearly be as accurate as planet aspects.
And, that is excellent if you can vouch for your own life too. As to zodiac signs not being accurate - so are you saying that for you Venus in Virgo vs. Venus in Libra, or Venus in Taurus vs. Venus in Scorpio are same, or at least nearly the same? In the sense, they are equally strong or weak, so sign placement of the planets don't matter at all?:crying::crying:

I think insomnia and women enemies is nothing that can be explained astrologically. I've never heard such a thing before until today.
There is always a first time and that is why they say learning is a lifelong process

I don't for full results if the signs and houses are already unreliable.
I can understand the planetary placements in houses being unreliable due to incorrect time of birth, or contentious depending on the house system the astrologer prefers to use, but how can signs be unreliable unless one is even unsure of the date, worse still month of birth?
 

GemwDepth

Account Closed
I think the zodiac signs are wishy washy, as I've said before. Vattius Vatenis or whatever his name his has a very different interpretation of Leo then say, a modern astrologer like Linda Goodman. Like I don't know what do think when someone has their Sun in Leo anymore.

And then I thought, well forget assigning characteristics to people based on planets in the signs. Maybe planets in the signs are important for dignities.. but I've always found dignities to not make any sense at all. Like lady gaga's mercury in pisces in the 10th house... I've found people with mercury in pisces to actually be geniuses and not mentally messed up in any way as the original description would say.

And on top of it all, astrologers don't even agree on which zodiac wheel to use, the tropical or sidereal... Cuz technically the sky has been broken up into 12 signs. Why not two signs? Or 24 signs? Or 360 signs for each degree? And then it makes you wonder how someone who is a 29 degree leo is very different from someone who has their sun 0 degrees virgo? Is the zodiac in shades or is it blocky. I swear it's in shades. But if it's in shades, then we need to really need to break up the leo sign into 3 signs of its own. Compare later leos to earlier leos...

But as I've said, the astrologer I really like David Cochrane said that zodiac signs really don't tell you anything about someone's personality.. All it does is give people a kind of lens...

This is all really interesting. Now that you've explained the process and mechanism that led to your conclusion / personal methodology. I'll look into David Cochrane.

Maybe I'll try not looking at signs or houses for X amount of days, and see what my brain picks up. Then I'll add all the colors back in, and see what the difference is in how my brain process things.
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
Again, it immensely helps to practise reading the complete sentence, then understanding it completely and only then, only then getting down to responding to it. When did I ever say my Moon was in the 12th house? Please point that out. Obviously if the information that registers with one is incorrect, how can the interpretation there of be correct? I again refer back to my post.

K well sorry for not reading fully through your entire post. I just felt like you were saying what I've heard so many other astrologers have said and I've kind of already made up my mind that I don't believe or understand that kind of astrological thinking.

And, that is excellent if you can vouch for your own life too. As to zodiac signs not being accurate - so are you saying that for you Venus in Virgo vs. Venus in Libra, or Venus in Taurus vs. Venus in Scorpio are same, or at least nearly the same? In the sense, they are equally strong or weak, so sign placement of the planets don't matter at all?:crying::crying:

They could be different, but I haven't had much evidence to help me see the differences. For aspects I have.

And, I would say that a Venus-Pluto person is going to be way more dark, sexual, and evil in love than say a Venus in the 8th house or Venus in Scorpio.

There is always a first time and that is why they say learning is a lifelong process

First and last time in this case.

I can understand the planetary placements in houses being unreliable due to incorrect time of birth, or contentious depending on the house system the astrologer prefers to use, but how can signs be unreliable unless one is even unsure of the date, worse still month of birth?

I think the signs are more likely to be unreliable than the actual dates. Especially houses. Houses are floogey. However, planets touching the house angles I have seen good enough evidence for.
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
This is all really interesting. Now that you've explained the process and mechanism that led to your conclusion / personal methodology. I'll look into David Cochrane.

Maybe I'll try not looking at signs or houses for X amount of days, and see what my brain picks up. Then I'll add all the colors back in, and see what the difference is in how my brain process things.

Just watch this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u67OQS0DgFU&t=
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
They could be different, but I haven't had much evidence to help me see the differences. For aspects I have.
I am lazy enough to not go look for your natal chart on this forum if posted previously. However, we can take what we believe in and dissect it to prove how sign placements/ house placements are also important, if you care to post your natal chart (from astro.com)

And, I would say that a Venus-Pluto person is going to be way more dark, sexual, and evil in love than say a Venus in the 8th house or Venus in Scorpio.
Now that is what brother Cochrane would call anecdotal astrology or anecdotal evidence. I would say that Venus - Pluto is not the same as having Venus in the eight house or Venus in its detriment in Scorpio. Hence the effect of Ven-Plu as an aspect is going to be different, if one were to consider the aspects to the outers.

First and last time in this case.
Now that's the Leo Mercury talking arrogantly (Leo) about learning (Mercury) Not being a lifelong process. So on your own thread and through the words coming out of your own mouth we can prove how important sign placements of planets are. :w00t::w00t:

I think the signs are more likely to be unreliable than the actual dates. Especially houses. Houses are floogey. However, planets touching the house angles I have seen good enough evidence for.
"Signs are most likely to be more unreliable than actually dates"??:confused::confused: We started out by talking about planets in signs in natal charts. I am saying that we cannot rely on the sign placements of planets if the native is unsure of their birth date, far worse month because then the fast moving planets like the Moon, Sun and Merc. will have changed signs, even others if they are on the far end of the signs. That would make the sign placement unreliable. What a sign stands for on its own in terms of information (arrogance associated with Leo, for instance) is quite clear and stable. However, there are multiple ways and areas of life that that arrogance might show up, and a holistic approach helps understand the full pic.
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
I am lazy enough to not go look for your natal chart on this forum if posted previously. However, we can take what we believe in and dissect it to prove how sign placements/ house placements are also important, if you care to post your natal chart (from astro.com)

astro_2gw_chris.343.65911.jpg

Now that is what brother Cochrane would call anecdotal astrology or anecdotal evidence. I would say that Venus - Pluto is not the same as having Venus in the eight house or Venus in its detriment in Scorpio. Hence the effect of Ven-Plu as an aspect is going to be different, if one were to consider the aspects to the outers.

Oh. They technically are the same though. All have the same underlying theme.

Now that's the Leo Mercury talking arrogantly (Leo) about learning (Mercury) Not being a lifelong process. So on your own thread and through the words coming out of your own mouth we can prove how important sign placements of planets are. :w00t::w00t:

pffft..

"Signs are most likely to be more unreliable than actually dates"??:confused::confused: We started out by talking about planets in signs in natal charts. I am saying that we cannot rely on the sign placements of planets if the native is unsure of their birth date, far worse month because then the fast moving planets like the Moon, Sun and Merc. will have changed signs, even others if they are on the far end of the signs. That would make the sign placement unreliable. What a sign stands for on its own in terms of information (arrogance associated with Leo, for instance) is quite clear and stable. However, there are multiple ways and areas of life that that arrogance might show up, and a holistic approach helps understand the full pic.

Yeah, I agree with that.

All I'm saying is that aspects tell you a lot more about someone's personality than anything else. Houses and signs or whatever may be helpful for other things, but not personality. Houses and Signs only flavors the personality.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
I understand what you are saying about aspects - and them being more reliable. In comparison to house placements (esp. with an off time), that may even be the case. However, I am saying that sign placements is equally important, and sign placements do not get affected (except perhaps with Moon though) even with an incorrect time of birth. As to the importance of sign placements, already explained in a previous post.

Thanks for posting your chart. Feel free to not respond to any statement or question. What is the deal with your dad? Although the Sun is well situated in Leo, it has a close square to Saturn as well as to the outers. The mother is the more grounded and sensible of the two, but has had a hard life. The Moon is not a happy one in Virgo and also suffering in the 8th house. It's an earth Moon and its trine to earthy Saturn shows she longs or longed to create a stable and secure household/family life, but lives with the feeling, even guilt that that is not the case.

Not sure what you are up to studies wise and too lazy to go dig into your posts, but you should be ready to put in a fair bit of extra effort when it comes to making your career. The ruler of your career house, Mars, is in its fall (weak) in Cancer. However, it will get some help from Venus and Jupiter. However, the help is weak due to the wide orb with Jup., so it will take time and struggle for you to settle down. There might be some help involved from the partner - when the time comes. And, by this I don't mean just packing your lunch for you to take along, or get your shirts laundered, but actively helping out. It could be your own partner or someone that actually helps you stabilise your career and feels like one (Mars-Venus conj. in 7th). It could also be someone from the family given Venus rules your fourth house. Keep an open mind (I will too) and respond honestly, so that both of us can learn from each other.
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
I understand what you are saying about aspects - and them being more reliable. In comparison to house placements (esp. with an off time), that may even be the case. However, I am saying that sign placements is equally important, and sign placements do not get affected (except perhaps with Moon though) even with an incorrect time of birth. As to the importance of sign placements, already explained in a previous post.

Thanks for posting your chart. Feel free to not respond to any statement or question. What is the deal with your dad? Although the Sun is well situated in Leo, it has a close square to Saturn as well as to the outers. The mother is the more grounded and sensible of the two, but has had a hard life. The Moon is not a happy one in Virgo and also suffering in the 8th house. It's an earth Moon and its trine to earthy Saturn shows she longs or longed to create a stable and secure household/family life, but lives with the feeling, even guilt that that is not the case.

Not sure what you are up to studies wise and too lazy to go dig into your posts, but you should be ready to put in a fair bit of extra effort when it comes to making your career. The ruler of your career house, Mars, is in its fall (weak) in Cancer. However, it will get some help from Venus and Jupiter. However, the help is weak due to the wide orb with Jup., so it will take time and struggle for you to settle down. There might be some help involved from the partner - when the time comes. And, by this I don't mean just packing your lunch for you to take along, or get your shirts laundered, but actively helping out. It could be your own partner or someone that actually helps you stabilise your career and feels like one (Mars-Venus conj. in 7th). It could also be someone from the family given Venus rules your fourth house. Keep an open mind (I will too) and respond honestly, so that both of us can learn from each other.

Well I'll admit; what you're saying is right on target.

My dad has been a major jerk for most of my life. He's just barely starting to change for the better this year.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
Well I'll admit; what you're saying is right on target.

My dad has been a major jerk for most of my life. He's just barely starting to change for the better this year.
Thanks for sharing. Well, the dad will come around. See the placement of the outers that affect your Sun (your father, also you) is in your 1st house, so it has mostly affected your formative (young) years, and due to the disillusioning and rebellious habits of your dad (perhaps also alco or something of the sort involved), you may also be rebellious and standoffish. Be kind to your mum and don't make it hard for her than it already is. The Moon in the 8th actually needs a shoulder to cry/lean on. Also, given the tight orb between your North Node and your Moon - it shows your common karma with your mum, which will help you both grow. The wife will also be a bit of a challenge with that Moon and also Mars on the Dsc. With the Saturn-Sun aspect there, your dad will come around though a bit later than he should have (Saturn delays). Would you say that that the challenge with your dad actually thrust more responsibility on your shoulders - like did you have to be more the man of the house at a very young age, or was there the granddad or an older uncle that took over that role?
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
Thanks for sharing. Well, the dad will come around. See the placement of the outers that affect your Sun (your father, also you) is in your 1st house, so it has mostly affected your formative (young) years, and due to the disillusioning and rebellious habits of your dad (perhaps also alco or something of the sort involved), you may also be rebellious and standoffish.

Yes, my dad was a major alcoholic. He barely quit drinking like 3 months ago.

Be kind to your mum and don't make it hard for her than it already is. The Moon in the 8th actually needs a shoulder to cry/lean on. Also, given the tight orb between your North Node and your Moon - it shows your common karma with your mum, which will help you both grow.

Good to know.

The wife will also be a bit of a challenge with that Moon and also Mars on the Dsc. With the Saturn-Sun aspect there, your dad will come around though a bit later than he should have (Saturn delays). Would you say that that the challenge with your dad actually thrust more responsibility on your shoulders - like did you have to be more the man of the house at a very young age, or was there the granddad or an older uncle that took over that role?

Good to know that my dad will finally come around. This year I think he finally has. There was no grandad or uncle.. I would say that my mom became "the man" of the house honestly. I definitely had to be more responsible though. I often found myself regulating my dad and his behavior rather than him regulating me and my behavior. It's funny cuz my mom would often say that, "you know it feels like I live in a house with three kids, instead of a house with a husband and two kids." And often throughout my life I've been seen as like an old soul and mature person for my age, but still very immature though because I was still a kid that did kid things.

I actually really appreciate your analysis. I kind of take back what I said about houses and zodiac signs. I just need to study more charts and read more books.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
I thank you, too, for sharing the info. readily as corroboration from a person really helps learn. Remember, Saturn on the Asc. means sensibility and hard work and Sun in Leo means confidence and conviction - two strong qualities you have been blessed with. However, everything is only energy, so remember to use that combination the right way, always let sensibility and hard work control the arrogance of Leo. That will bring you success. It helps to do what serves the purpose more than what serves the ego (which can be the bane of the Leo energy). Just remember that.

Good luck.
 

ynnest

Well-known member
Whilst I understand the reasoning you provide and in part also agree with the contention between the considering the first breath vs. the moment the soul enters the body, how does one decide when the latter happens? I have done little research on the latter, so if you have any sources (books or websites) you can share, would be nice.

Not only the above, but also the fact that people use different house systems, moves the planets to different houses. However, the sign placements regardless remain the same and are very important.


There are books authored by John Willner that have been purposefully spiritually closed of from the majority of the astrological community for a very long time. These books, specifically in this case "The perfect horoscope", doesn't necessary provide the toolkit to arrive at the exact correct ascendant but should give a broader overview and increase the probability of at least finding the correct ascendant Sign.

I would say that the sign placements of the planets are equally important to the aspects since the aspects builds on the foundation of the planets location/expression in the signs even though a cluster in combust or an elevated planet of course adds more to that foundational expression. In regards to house systems it is my understanding that the Placidus system is the original and correct design.

Y
 
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