An afflicted Ascendant Ruler

byjove · May 30, 2009

Hi all,

I'm just looking for some discussion on this, whether you have it or not, if you know a little, brilliant!

I've attached my chart, Cancer Rising, Moon in a wide sextile 3rd Virgo to the AC, but all other aspects are negative.

I have more positive aspects lifting me up though, and I read that moon square saturn is perhaps the most powerful aspect possible in a horoscope, since the native learns life lessions hard and doesn't forget. Mine's also in a T-square. How much can an afflicted AC ruler be uplifted?

katydid · May 30, 2009

byjove said:
Hi all,

I'm just looking for some discussion on this, whether you have it or not, if you know a little, brilliant!

I've attached my chart, Cancer Rising, Moon in a wide sextile 3rd Virgo to the AC, but all other aspects are negative.

I have more positive aspects lifting me up though, and I read that moon square saturn is perhaps the most powerful aspect possible in a horoscope, since the native learns life lessions hard and doesn't forget. Mine's also in a T-square. How much can an afflicted AC ruler be uplifted?

You have a lot of nice supporting aspects to mitigate the afflictions to your Moon. The asc has a very nice trine from Mercury in Pisces conjunct the MC for example. That is important because you will learn how to heal yourself and how to take positive data from conflict, and use it to better yourself in the world. Education is very important to you and will take a prominent role in your life. You may even become an educator yourself at some point, as learning and growing comes naturally to you.

The term 'chart ruler' needs to be taken in context. Your chart progresses as you age. At some point, it progressed into Leo rising, and the Sun took over that duty as co-ruler. Your Sun is proudly placed prominently in Aries in the 10th. No problem for you to work through these Lunar squares. Your chart show strong emphasis upon self motivation,

creative strengths, leadership skills, and great success in the world at large.

The moon will always be an effort for you to work with. Your emotions may tend to come off as defensive, or aggresssive, and you will have to work to allow others to get close to the real you. Cancer rising likes to hide in it's protective shell, and dare others to try and come in. If you want to be intimate, you will have to come forward and make yourself more available. The balls in your court. :60:

Arian Maverick · May 30, 2009

We have a similar thread to this, which you may be interested to read: Ascendant Ruler in Detriment or Dignity. I understand that "afflicted" may apply to the aspects as well as the planetary placement, though.

Arian Maverick

elumen · May 31, 2009

A ruler of the ascendent in detriment would indicate that the native does not feel very confident about him or herself, there may be a feeling of inferiority. In your case, your ruler is not in detriment, and is reasonably well placed in Virgo. The affliction from Saturn Uranus from the 6th indicate a strain to your health, and perhaps a predesposition towards nervious disorders (is that so?) Also, this Moon would take a very long time to warm up to other people, there is mistrust and great caution with Saturn aspecting the Moon, but I think that Venus even though is in opposition helps the Moon and Mercury helps too, as the previous posts pointed out. So it is a matter of working out the T-Square, do you experience it in the sector of communication/learning? (BTW, I have also Moon in Virgo in opposition to Venus in Pisces, but square Jupiter Neptune, I'm a dreamer, and a greatest romantic and it takes me a very long time to warm up to others and feel safe with them, in spite of my Aries sun).

astrologer50 · May 31, 2009

elumen said:
A ruler of the ascendent in detriment would indicate that the native does not feel very confident about him or herself, there may be a feeling of inferiority. In your case, your ruler is not in detriment, and is reasonably well placed in Virgo. The affliction from Saturn Uranus from the 6th indicate a strain to your health, and perhaps a predesposition towards nervious disorders (is that so?) Also, this Moon would take a very long time to warm up to other people, there is mistrust and great caution with Saturn aspecting the Moon, but I think that Venus even though is in opposition helps the Moon and Mercury helps too, as the previous posts pointed out. So it is a matter of working out the T-Square, do you experience it in the sector of communication/learning? (BTW, I have also Moon in Virgo in opposition to Venus in Pisces, but square Jupiter Neptune, I'm a dreamer, and a greatest romantic and it takes me a very long time to warm up to others and feel safe with them, in spite of my Aries sun).

Sorry but don't agree with this I have Aquarius Asc uranus in Leo (detriment)7th with squares to sun and moon and definately don't feel inferior to anyone or debilitated.

Again though this is more Traditional v modern, cos I don't consider my chart ruler to be Saturn, but Uranus. I'm a a very positive, glass half full kind of girl, not half empty

aquarius7000 · May 31, 2009

Ouch, going by that bit (though I know what you mean, Elumen), I should be a person completely smothered by depression. Well, I am not the most optimistic person, but quite self-confident (of course, like any other human being, I too have my fears; read on & you'll know why). Though I have the Sun rising in the literal sense of the word, through a Leo Asc, but it rises on the west side of my chart and below the horizon (as an Aqua, I just love to step out of the line

). Both my lights are fused, I mean in detriment: Sun in Aqua and opposing the rising; and Moon in Cap plus opposed by its dispositor, Sat

, tough, eh? And, no, I don't have a very active Jupiter balancing it out (just sextiling my MC and weakly semi-sextiling my Merc and Sun; plus I belong to the Sat-tri-Jup lot). No personal planets in Sag (just Nep and N-Node).

A50, I have learned that the likes of Ura/Nep/Plu are so strong that they will 'do their work' anywhere, even if the friendly-to-all and community-loving Ura were in the ego-conscious Leo, or in the status quo and status-loving sign of Taurus; or if the planet of transformations, Plu, were in Taurus. I think that going by the detriment/dignity of the likes of these 'notorious' planets might be a bit, neptuning, self-illusioning. But, of course, this is just my opinion.

AQ7

byjove · May 31, 2009

katydid said:
You have a lot of nice supporting aspects to mitigate the afflictions to your Moon. The asc has a very nice trine from Mercury in Pisces conjunct the MC for example. That is important because you will learn how to heal yourself and how to take positive data from conflict, and use it to better yourself in the world. Education is very important to you and will take a prominent role in your life. You may even become an educator yourself at some point, as learning and growing comes naturally to you.

The term 'chart ruler' needs to be taken in context. Your chart progresses as you age. At some point, it progressed into Leo rising, and the Sun took over that duty as co-ruler. Your Sun is proudly placed prominently in Aries in the 10th. No problem for you to work through these Lunar squares. Your chart show strong emphasis upon self motivation,
creative strengths, leadership skills, and great success in the world at large.

The moon will always be an effort for you to work with. Your emotions may tend to come off as defensive, or aggresssive, and you will have to work to allow others to get close to the real you. Cancer rising likes to hide in it's protective shell, and dare others to try and come in. If you want to be intimate, you will have to come forward and make yourself more available. The balls in your court. :60:

Hi Katydid, I'm very greatful for you helping clear that up. I've read about the healing charms of that Mercury position, but just wasn't sure if it was enough to cope with Luna's troubles. I have read that an afflicted 3rd house moon (mine also in Virgo, double-mercury helping for extra instability) can switch from the emotional to the rational eratically, but truth be told, that doesn't happen to me. I feel like I can initiaite the logical and rational or emotional and feeling side of me at will, and I employ that if someone needs my advice or I'm trying to persuade someone.

I'm also thrilled to learn that the progressed ASC ruler gets a look-in. My natal sun has left it's interception, and is one of the strongest placings, so glad to hear that's involved now.

And I have to say, over the years I've been teaching myself to come out of my Cancer Rising shell, and come out to play lol. So I understand you when you talk about that, and I see breaking down these barriers as a personal project, which I work at over time.

Thanks again for shedding the light on my lunar concerns!

byjove · May 31, 2009

elumen said:
A ruler of the ascendent in detriment would indicate that the native does not feel very confident about him or herself, there may be a feeling of inferiority. In your case, your ruler is not in detriment, and is reasonably well placed in Virgo. The affliction from Saturn Uranus from the 6th indicate a strain to your health, and perhaps a predesposition towards nervious disorders (is that so?) Also, this Moon would take a very long time to warm up to other people, there is mistrust and great caution with Saturn aspecting the Moon, but I think that Venus even though is in opposition helps the Moon and Mercury helps too, as the previous posts pointed out. So it is a matter of working out the T-Square, do you experience it in the sector of communication/learning? (BTW, I have also Moon in Virgo in opposition to Venus in Pisces, but square Jupiter Neptune, I'm a dreamer, and a greatest romantic and it takes me a very long time to warm up to others and feel safe with them, in spite of my Aries sun).

Hi Elumen, it seems we have a few placements in common.

Would you say then, that an afflicted ASC ruler can be uplifted though? I don't generally feel that lack of self-confidence etc. as mentioned, so I'm wondering if a strong sun can light the land below?

JayM · May 31, 2009

Hi everyone! My AC ruler is afflicted but by AC itself is also afflicted!!

My aquarius AC is ruled my uranus and saturn (saturn is the old ruler but some books say to look at saturn too if interpriting aquarius). So my Uranus in the 10th conj merc is square mars. And my saturn is opposed my moon square my venus and AC!!! I have in the past felt a lack of confidence and fear about myself interacting with others, and with communicating my feelings (NN and chiron also have to do with communication as well as merc/uranus inconj moon).

What do you all think?

JayM · May 31, 2009

Hi Elumen, it seems we have a few placements in common. Would you say then, that an afflicted ASC ruler can be uplifted though? I don't generally feel that lack of self-confidence etc. as mentioned, so I'm wondering if a strong sun can light the land below?

Yes, your sun is your source of will power and that can overcome the rest of your chart. Like many have said, your chart is not written is stone its just the energy you start with. I however also think that if your sun has good aspects to it then it easier to "tap" into your source of will (anyone with an afflicted sun can still do this but its a little bit more tought).

elumen · May 31, 2009

Hi byjove, my general interpretation was about the ruler in detriment, not the ruler afflicted. your moon is not in detriment, so the low self-confidnece/esteem does not apply. also, i feel that ANY aspect in the chart can be overcome. we are in constant flux, we grow, change and evolve, i see the chart as representation of what we come into this world with. as for my chart, my sun powerfully expresses itself in many areas, but i still feel the virgo/pisces energies very intensly and independently. it is as if each planet as a player in the orchestra and has to play its note sooner or later... how do you experience your Moon Saturn square -- how's your health, if I may ask?

byjove · May 31, 2009

elumen said:
... how do you experience your Moon Saturn square -- how's your health, if I may ask?

Well I recognise some of the fears mentioned with it, the unnecessary caution, social fears etc. Actually, I'm going through transit saturn conjunct my natal moon, which is lighting it all up again. For a while there it felt like some things were already set when I got out of bed, and I felt a little defeated. Saturn just retrograded and left the moon, so it's on it's way back - the lift of that transit was huge!

My health is very good overall, though, I can get extremely sick once a year or so. I've 3 planets in the 6th, including Saturn at a T-SQ apex and eratic Uranus and Neptune, so I think that's where that comes from. There may be specific ailments that some people more specialised might know of? Is saturn square the moon one of your aspects too?

elumen · May 31, 2009

no, I do not have Saturn connection to my Moon, in general all of my planets are well placed, but i have 2 T-squares, one with Sun Uranus opposition squaring my Mars, and another with Venus/Moon oppositon squaring Jupiter conj. Neptune. Interesting about your health. I just wonder how this square comes out?

elumen · May 31, 2009

Hi Astrologer50 and aquarius7000,
i think my choice of words was not the most reflective of what I was taught by my teacher. he used to say that debilitated ruler indicated that the native does not feel good about him or herself, but this wording and approach is very traditional indeed. i tested this premise on many of my clients and it seems to be true in a sense that they are not feeling "entitled" or "deserving", but it is not a sign of depression, you could be positive but still have not full appreciation of oneself. in any case, thank you for sharing your experience - it always means more than some general, taken out of context interpretation. i take both rulers (Uranus and Saturn) for the Aquarius rising (as this is my rising sign as well

) -- astrologer50 do you not feel Saturn influence on yourself?

aquarius7000 · May 31, 2009

..T-squares, one with Sun Uranus opposition squaring my Mars..

Elumen, though I do not know where these planets are located nor which houses they rule in your chart, yet, may I ask out of curiosity, how the Ura-Mars part of it has affected you? Any health problems (as Sun is involved) or accidents (Ura-Mars can cause them); or sudden temper issues? Btw, here's one with a Sat-Moon aspect, an opposition (> 5°): have a disciplined mum and she used to be strict with us when I still went to school (and yes, she often had reason to

), but now pretty relaxed (looks like she's given up on me

). In fact, I have more to offer when it comes to Sat, another nasty opp. to Mars (0°42'); have periods of lethargy. Actually, if you added Pluto to the mix, ie to both those opps; you get two nice t-squares in my chart. I can seethe with rage for quite sometime (that Sat keeps it-Mars bottled up). Btw, the great master, Sat, rules my 6th and 7th houses. And hey, as an Aqua in my core and mind (Sun & Merc), I too use both Sat & Ura as this crazy sign's rulers.

AQ7

elumen · May 31, 2009

No, my health is pretty good. I was often sick as a child (until the age of 13) but after that, no. No accidents either... I think this T-square manifests psychologically a lot, that I'm extremely impatient, independent and certainly self-willed, I am not moved to anger easilyt but may engage in confrontations easily if something is not to my liking. However the other T-Square between my soft planets mitigates that to some degree. If you're interested you can see attached to my profile ( I just figured out how to do it).

byjove · Nov 29, 2011

Hi everyone!

I just wanted to report back since I posted this.

I've had a very interesting few years, both with crisis and times of great hope. I noted during my most difficult years that what got me through was self-belief and raw willpower. You guys were right. I'm blessed to have at least one of the lights in a strong position. My 1st ruler, Moon does still give trouble, but my happiness and confidence compounds with achievement and success. :w00t:

dperez3894 · Nov 30, 2011

byjove said:
Hi all,

I'm just looking for some discussion on this, whether you have it or not, if you know a little, brilliant!

I've attached my chart, Cancer Rising, Moon in a wide sextile 3rd Virgo to the AC, but all other aspects are negative.

I have more positive aspects lifting me up though, and I read that moon square saturn is perhaps the most powerful aspect possible in a horoscope, since the native learns life lessions hard and doesn't forget. Mine's also in a T-square. How much can an afflicted AC ruler be uplifted?

My Libra Ascendant ruler, Venus, is afflicted by Pluto conjunct my Ascendant. It's also in detriment in Aries.

The positive aspects are the conjunction to an Exalted Sun in Aries, Trine to Neptune, Sextiles to Mars and Jupiter and Quintile to Saturn.

Since my detrimented and afflicted Venus is combust by an Exalted Sun, perhaps that overcomes the detriment and affliction.

Since my Libra Ascendant ruler is outshined by the Sun through combustion, could this mean my virtual chart ruler is the Sun while the real chart ruler is still Venus?

In some ways I do seem to act more like a hybrid of a Leo and Libra Ascendant.

astrologer50 · Nov 30, 2011

dperez3894 said:
My Libra Ascendant ruler, Venus, is afflicted by Pluto conjunct my Ascendant. It's also in detriment in Aries.

The positive aspects are the conjunction to an Exalted Sun in Aries, Trine to Neptune, Sextiles to Mars and Jupiter and Quintile to Saturn.

Since my detrimented and afflicted Venus is combust by an Exalted Sun, perhaps that overcomes the detriment and affliction.

Since my Libra Ascendant ruler is outshined by the Sun through combustion, could this mean my virtual chart ruler is the Sun while the real chart ruler is still Venus?

In some ways I do seem to act more like a hybrid of a Leo and Libra Ascendant.

Having an afflicted chart ruler is very common, but what is *more* important is the area of life your chart ruler falls, but even then, a strong stellium can outweigh the importance of the house chart ruler falls...
I feel your Pluto conj Asc will even overshadow chart ruler in your case as it's only 1' off Asc. So you won't express the usual libran traits outwardly as pluto is angular and very strong.

Researching rulers of houses will help you understand more where I joining the dots so to speak
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/rulersofhousesinhouses.html
http://www.trans4mind.com/personal_development/astrology/LearningAstrology/housesDerived.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_house
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/houserulerships.htm

What takes precedent firstly are planets in signs, then houses, then aspects, *then* house cusp ruler.... down the list of interpretations it's *how* cusp ruler are linked to the house they rule, not so much how they are aspected, in my opinion....

dperez3894 · Nov 30, 2011

astrologer50 said:
Having an afflicted chart ruler is very common, but what is *more* important is the area of life your chart ruler falls, but even then, a strong stellium can outweigh the importance of the house chart ruler falls...
I feel your Pluto conj Asc will even overshadow chart ruler in your case as it's only 1' off Asc. So you won't express the usual libran traits outwardly as pluto is angular and very strong.

Researching rulers of houses will help you understand more where I joining the dots so to speak
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/rulersofhousesinhouses.html
http://www.trans4mind.com/personal_development/astrology/LearningAstrology/housesDerived.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_house
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/houserulerships.htm

What takes precedent firstly are planets in signs, then houses, then aspects, *then* house cusp ruler.... down the list of interpretations it's *how* cusp ruler are linked to the house they rule, not so much how they are aspected, in my opinion....

Could you post a visual example? With my Mercury in Pisces, I'm more of a left handed picture person and with Mercury in the 6th house(the Virgo house), I can break it down into it's components once I see the picture.

My mind works the opposite of everyone else who puts the pieces together then makes a picture.

An afflicted Ascendant Ruler

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