What do you really think happens after death?
- Thread starter Witchyone
- Start date
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Dr Ian Stevenson completed well documented research on reincarnation
https://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/research/ian-stevenson.html
Witchyone
Well-known member
Thank you. I appreciate it.
No, I don't in the least. I'm enjoying the conversation from those better educated in these topics than I am.
Witchyone
Well-known member
Yes. There is the distinction I was missing. You're referring to a more collective and universal spirit that we return to then?
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
watcherofthesouth
Well-known member
When a close friend passed last year, I read Proof of Heaven, about a neurologist's personal journey. Though he was once scientific about death - his Near Death Experience changed his whole outlook. It was a very comforting and profound book.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
david starling
Well-known member
The other animals understand it perfectly. We're the idiots of the bunch!
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
At death, the relatives and friends with whom we are connected
will be of no help to us
We may have won the friendship of the universal monarch, be
surrounded by five hundred young goddess consorts, have
a thousand godling children playing.
Our nephew and uncle might be the lords of the gods,
our clan might consist of demigod soldiers
our subjects may be the four continents and the celestial realms,
and our riches might include the seven precious attributes.
Our paternal uncles may be Brahma and Indra
our friends the gods of the realm of the Four Great Kings
and we might have a thousand celestial servants to serve us.
But none of them can keep us alive, provide help
prolong our life, escort, or accompany us.
We will have to depart alone, like a hair plucked out of butter
and proceed along the narrow defile of the intermediate state
with no one to accompany us.
As we find in the Sutra Requested by Putri Ratna,
When the hour of death arrives
Neither your parents, nor your relatives,
Nor your children will protect you,
Neither your youth nor your strength.
And in the Sutra of Extensive Play:
At death, the move from here to somewhere else,
Destitute, one parts from those one loves.
Once dead, there’s no return, nor meeting them again,
Like falling leaves, like a river flowing on.
Physical courage and agility are of no use:
at the time of death we have to depart with nothing to help us.
The most able suggestions cannot help:
there is no chance of talking or arguing one’s way out.
Courage and skill will not help:
there is no way one can fight one’s way out.
An athlete’s speed will not help:
there is no chance to escape.
A beautiful face will not help:
there is no seducing death.
Intense activity will not help:
this is not the moment for starting anything.
Craft and cunning will not help:
there is nowhere one can slip away to.
One has to go alone.
As we read in the Vinaya scriptures,
Here, even mighty long-lived gods
Living in their lofty abodes,
Their lives exhausted, will grow weak,
So who today can escape from death?
Even heroes and champions cannot protect one.
Kings, renunciates, and ascetics,
Activities, diligence, determination,
Vast retinues, and intelligence
Have no power to free one from death.
Powerful friends and allies cannot help us.
Even such mighty beings as Brahma, Indra, Ishvara and Vishnu, great sages
and Narayana are not exempt from death.
“Malignant” yakshas and ogreish rakshasas, demons
serpentine nagas, and the like cannot escape it.
Medicine, science, divination, crystal-gazing, and other methods cannot help us escape.
The power of such things as secret mantras, charms
magic, and clairvoyancewill not help.
Male gods, Dharma protectors, and dakinis
cannot provide a refuge.
We will die without any help from the power of elixirs
special substances, or medicines
Again the Vinaya scriptures say:
Might and power they have, their fame spreads far and wide
— Brahma, Indra, and Vishnu,
Rahu, the Kauravas and Pandavasm
— But even they are powerless to stop death.
From He Who Puts an End to Alln neither medicines,
Nor all the activities of mantras, nor soldiers,
Neither gods, nor guardians, nor magical rituals,
Neither wealth, nor relations can protect one.
Making use of the numerous illustrations
and arguments mentioned above, in everything you do
— moving around, walking, lying down, sitting, and so forth
—think only of death, and recognize everything you see, hear
and think of as impermanent by nature
as an example of impermanence
and as a goad reminding you of impermanence
following the words of The Way of the Bodhisattva:
This should be my one concern,
My only thought both night and day.
And those of the Great Omniscient One:
As you walk, every step you take is impermanent
— an incitement to move toward Buddhahood.
When you are sitting, staying is impermanent
— an incitement to remain in the unchanging state.
When you rise, standing is impermanent
— an incitement to arise into the state of evenness.
Eating, drinking, and everyday activities are impermanent
— an incitement to eat the food of concentration.
Dwellings are impermanent
— an incitement to reside in the palace of evenness, the absolute body.
Drawing in your limbs is impermanent
— an incitement to withdraw from compounded activities.
Stretching out your limbs is impermanent
— an incitement to vastly extend your vision beyond this world.
Lying down is impermanent
— an incitement to take rest in the way things truly are.
When you travel, the way is impermanent
— an incitement to setout on the path to enlightenment.
Fearful enemies are impermanent
— an incitement to vanquish your enemies, afflictive emotions.
The words you say are impermanent
— an incitement to recite mantras and the scriptures.
Agricultural activities are impermanent
— an incitement to constantly abide by the teachings.
Food and drink are impermanent
— an incitement to make offerings to the mandala of the deity.
Wealth and possessions are impermanent
— an incitement to accumulate the seven noble riches.
Power and fame are impermanent
— an incitement to constant humility.
Pleasure is impermanent
— an incitement to accumulate merit and wisdom.
Sentient beings are impermanent
— an incitement to place them on the path to enlightenment.
The causes of sudden death are impermanent
— an incitement to seize the citadel of deathlessness.
Washing and grooming yourself are impermanent
— an incitement to use the four powers to purify your defilements and obscurations.
The five afflictive poisons are impermanent
— an incitement to realize spontaneous primal wisdom.
The world you perceive is impermanent
— an incitement to purify your perceptions as a Buddhafield.
The sound of fame is impermanent
— an incitement to proclaim the melodious sounds of the Dharma.
Thoughts and memories are impermanent
— an incitement to develop the wisdom of elimination and realization.
- Dudjom Rinpoche
- A Torch Lighting the Way to Freedom
- Shambhala Publications
will be of no help to us
We may have won the friendship of the universal monarch, be
surrounded by five hundred young goddess consorts, have
a thousand godling children playing.
Our nephew and uncle might be the lords of the gods,
our clan might consist of demigod soldiers
our subjects may be the four continents and the celestial realms,
and our riches might include the seven precious attributes.
Our paternal uncles may be Brahma and Indra
our friends the gods of the realm of the Four Great Kings
and we might have a thousand celestial servants to serve us.
But none of them can keep us alive, provide help
prolong our life, escort, or accompany us.
We will have to depart alone, like a hair plucked out of butter
and proceed along the narrow defile of the intermediate state
with no one to accompany us.
As we find in the Sutra Requested by Putri Ratna,
When the hour of death arrives
Neither your parents, nor your relatives,
Nor your children will protect you,
Neither your youth nor your strength.
And in the Sutra of Extensive Play:
At death, the move from here to somewhere else,
Destitute, one parts from those one loves.
Once dead, there’s no return, nor meeting them again,
Like falling leaves, like a river flowing on.
Physical courage and agility are of no use:
at the time of death we have to depart with nothing to help us.
The most able suggestions cannot help:
there is no chance of talking or arguing one’s way out.
Courage and skill will not help:
there is no way one can fight one’s way out.
An athlete’s speed will not help:
there is no chance to escape.
A beautiful face will not help:
there is no seducing death.
Intense activity will not help:
this is not the moment for starting anything.
Craft and cunning will not help:
there is nowhere one can slip away to.
One has to go alone.
As we read in the Vinaya scriptures,
Here, even mighty long-lived gods
Living in their lofty abodes,
Their lives exhausted, will grow weak,
So who today can escape from death?
Even heroes and champions cannot protect one.
Kings, renunciates, and ascetics,
Activities, diligence, determination,
Vast retinues, and intelligence
Have no power to free one from death.
Powerful friends and allies cannot help us.
Even such mighty beings as Brahma, Indra, Ishvara and Vishnu, great sages
and Narayana are not exempt from death.
“Malignant” yakshas and ogreish rakshasas, demons
serpentine nagas, and the like cannot escape it.
Medicine, science, divination, crystal-gazing, and other methods cannot help us escape.
The power of such things as secret mantras, charms
magic, and clairvoyancewill not help.
Male gods, Dharma protectors, and dakinis
cannot provide a refuge.
We will die without any help from the power of elixirs
special substances, or medicines
Again the Vinaya scriptures say:
Might and power they have, their fame spreads far and wide
— Brahma, Indra, and Vishnu,
Rahu, the Kauravas and Pandavasm
— But even they are powerless to stop death.
From He Who Puts an End to Alln neither medicines,
Nor all the activities of mantras, nor soldiers,
Neither gods, nor guardians, nor magical rituals,
Neither wealth, nor relations can protect one.
Making use of the numerous illustrations
and arguments mentioned above, in everything you do
— moving around, walking, lying down, sitting, and so forth
—think only of death, and recognize everything you see, hear
and think of as impermanent by nature
as an example of impermanence
and as a goad reminding you of impermanence
following the words of The Way of the Bodhisattva:
This should be my one concern,
My only thought both night and day.
And those of the Great Omniscient One:
As you walk, every step you take is impermanent
— an incitement to move toward Buddhahood.
When you are sitting, staying is impermanent
— an incitement to remain in the unchanging state.
When you rise, standing is impermanent
— an incitement to arise into the state of evenness.
Eating, drinking, and everyday activities are impermanent
— an incitement to eat the food of concentration.
Dwellings are impermanent
— an incitement to reside in the palace of evenness, the absolute body.
Drawing in your limbs is impermanent
— an incitement to withdraw from compounded activities.
Stretching out your limbs is impermanent
— an incitement to vastly extend your vision beyond this world.
Lying down is impermanent
— an incitement to take rest in the way things truly are.
When you travel, the way is impermanent
— an incitement to setout on the path to enlightenment.
Fearful enemies are impermanent
— an incitement to vanquish your enemies, afflictive emotions.
The words you say are impermanent
— an incitement to recite mantras and the scriptures.
Agricultural activities are impermanent
— an incitement to constantly abide by the teachings.
Food and drink are impermanent
— an incitement to make offerings to the mandala of the deity.
Wealth and possessions are impermanent
— an incitement to accumulate the seven noble riches.
Power and fame are impermanent
— an incitement to constant humility.
Pleasure is impermanent
— an incitement to accumulate merit and wisdom.
Sentient beings are impermanent
— an incitement to place them on the path to enlightenment.
The causes of sudden death are impermanent
— an incitement to seize the citadel of deathlessness.
Washing and grooming yourself are impermanent
— an incitement to use the four powers to purify your defilements and obscurations.
The five afflictive poisons are impermanent
— an incitement to realize spontaneous primal wisdom.
The world you perceive is impermanent
— an incitement to purify your perceptions as a Buddhafield.
The sound of fame is impermanent
— an incitement to proclaim the melodious sounds of the Dharma.
Thoughts and memories are impermanent
— an incitement to develop the wisdom of elimination and realization.
- Dudjom Rinpoche
- A Torch Lighting the Way to Freedom
- Shambhala Publications
david starling
Well-known member
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Witchyone
Well-known member
The two Sign most inclined to worry--Virgo and Capricorn.
I would suspect that age and experience play a part as well. It's easy not to worry about death when it seems like a distant, abstract thing. I started off close to it. I lost several extended family members and a parent in childhood, and where I grew up, visiting the elderly and going to their funerals on a regular basis was the norm. I saw a lot of dying people on their deathbeds, watched them get bathed and have their diapers changed. I saw a lot of dead people in their caskets. Got close enough to embalmed corpses to see their shiny skin and sewn lips. However, it was the Bible belt, and we just all assumed we were all gonna see each other again in Heaven. We sang happy songs to celebrate the idea.
I mostly left all that behind along with that part of the country and my religion. But then I hit my 40s and lost one of my best friends, someone I did kid **** with, someone I got matching tattoos with. The permanence of it is rough for me. I wake up from bad dreams with the word "never" in my head.
It's going to be a matter of acceptance for me, I think, and I'm just not there yet.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
