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Electional and Event Astrology Discuss here astrologically good times to do things, and what's happening astrologically when something major happens. Includes sports astrology.


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  #1  
Unread 01-13-2019, 01:28 AM
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How to determine the best time?

I'm pretty new to doing electional charts, and looking for some pointers. There are a couple of upcoming events that I'm involved in the planning of. I've cast tentative event charts for both, in an effort to figure out what timing is ideal.

My knowledge of astrological planning is really limited to weddings. I understand that for a wedding chart, it's considered ideal to have the moon waxing and not in fall or detriment; ideally, it would be in Cancer or Taurus, and the sun not in one of the "malefic" houses, and the AC and MC rulers direct, and at least one angle ruled by Venus or Jupiter. Do those same parameters hold for things like grand openings, launch parties, or starting a new organization? What about the angles--does it matter whether they're in fixed, mutable, or cardinal signs?

Here are the events I'm looking at:

Event #1: a launch party. The date has been chosen, and is nonnegotiable, but the time is to be determined. This is really a case where the launch would happen with or without a party, and the results would probably be the same, but we want a semi-public "here we are" celebration. Are there astrological factors that should be considered, like where the angles are, the moon, etc? The moon will change signs that day, if that's a consideration.

Event #2: first meeting of an astrological study group. Because of space availability at the meeting site, the time is predetermined, but there are several dates to choose from. At this time of year, that time of day, all potential start dates have Leo rising and the sun plus several planets in the sixth house. Depending on the date, though, moon placement varies, and midheaven sign varies. (A couple of the potential charts I've tried, I like how they match with my chart, but I don't know if that's really a consideration. This isn't all about me.)

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Unread 01-13-2019, 01:54 AM
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Re: How to determine the best time?

Seven traditional and general principles for most elections.
1. Let the Moon be operative with operative domicile ruler. The operative places are the angles and succedents.
2. Let the I, IV, VII and X be free of Saturn or Mars.
3. Let the Sun be operative, preferably angular.
4. Let Jupiter, Sun, Venus, Mercury and Moon be angular, the more the better.
5. Let the ruler of every action be favorably placed (operative and free of witnessing malefics):
- Saturn for property and some transfer of authority
- Jupiter for governorship and any evident or important matter
- Mars for governorship and military operations
- Venus for celebrations and affairs
- Mercury for eloquence and trade
If the rulers of the action are unfavorably placed and inoperative, the matter will be unsuccessful, even with favorably placed benefics rising and culminating.
6. Let the bright non-wandering stars and benefics be rising and culminating to the exact degree, and let the Lot of Fortune be favorably placed.
7. Avoid the Moon being void of course, the Sun and Moon unfavorably placed, or the domicile ruler of the Moon being cadent, having the dodekatemorion of the Moon fall upon Saturn or Mars. The New Moon is unfavorable concerning evident matters, but favorable concerning hidden matters, the Full Moon with malefics causes quarrels and dissension.

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Event #1: a launch party. The date has been chosen, and is nonnegotiable, but the time is to be determined. This is really a case where the launch would happen with or without a party, and the results would probably be the same, but we want a semi-public "here we are" celebration. Are there astrological factors that should be considered, like where the angles are, the moon, etc? The moon will change signs that day, if that's a consideration.
Moon in conjunction with Venus is favorable for celebrations. Let Jupiter, Sun, Venus and Moon be favorably placed. Let Venus be rising or culminating, and let Jupiter be angular without malefic testimony. The sign of the Moon also has some effect, generally human (for association) and semi-fertile (for quantity) signs like Gemini and Libra would be best. I would recommend sidereal whole signs for this matter.

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Event #2: first meeting of an astrological study group. Because of space availability at the meeting site, the time is predetermined, but there are several dates to choose from. At this time of year, that time of day, all potential start dates have Leo rising and the sun plus several planets in the sixth house. Depending on the date, though, moon placement varies, and midheaven sign varies. (A couple of the potential charts I've tried, I like how they match with my chart, but I don't know if that's really a consideration. This isn't all about me.)
It depends on the purpose of the group, if it is for specifically for study, rather than association, here are the points concerning teachings
I - Teacher
IV - Outcome
VII - Student
X - Authority
According to Dorotheus, let Mercury and the Moon be with human images (Gemini, Virgo, Libra, the first half of Sagittarius, and Aquarius) and in conjunction or trine with each other, with the Moon being waxing, and Mercury being eastern. I would also recommend checking the aforementioned simple principles. Definitely avoid the sixth house unless you intend irrational events.

Last edited by petosiris; 01-13-2019 at 02:03 AM.
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Unread 01-13-2019, 03:46 AM
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Re: How to determine the best time?

Thanks for such a detailed answer! Let's see....

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Seven traditional and general principles for most elections.
1. Let the Moon be operative with operative domicile ruler. The operative places are the angles and succedent.
2. Let the I, IV, VII and X be free of Saturn or Mars.
3. Let the Sun be operative, preferably angular.
Isn't the sun also operative in the ninth house, and the moon in the third, since those are their respective houses of joy? And are you considering house placements by whole sign, or by quadrant house?

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
4. Let Jupiter, Sun, Venus, Mercury and Moon be angular, the more the better.
5. Let the ruler of every action be favorably placed (operative and free of witnessing malefics):
- Saturn for property and some transfer of authority
- Jupiter for governorship and any evident or important matter
- Mars for governorship and military operations
- Venus for celebrations and affairs
- Mercury for eloquence and trade
If the rulers of the action are unfavorably placed and inoperative, the matter will be unsuccessful, even with favorably placed benefics rising and culminating.
Which is, of course, absolutely possible to achieve all at once! [Not!] Seriously, none of the possible dates for these elections allow all those ideal placements to exist at the same time.

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7. Avoid the Moon being void of course, the Sun and Moon unfavorably placed, or the domicile ruler of the Moon being cadent, having the dodekatemorion of the Moon fall upon Saturn or Mars.
What's the domicile ruler of the moon? Is that the ruler of the sign the moon is in at the moment? And what's the dodekatemorion of the moon?
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The New Moon is unfavorable concerning evident matters, but favorable concerning hidden matters, the Full Moon with malefics causes quarrels and dissension.
If the moon is neither new nor full, does it matter whether it's waxing or waning? I would think waxing would be ideal, especially for a first organizational meeting, since we want our endeavor to grow, but is that correct?

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Moon in conjunction with Venus is favorable for celebrations. Let Jupiter, Sun, Venus and Moon be favorably placed. Let Venus be rising or culminating, and let Jupiter be angular without malefic testimony. The sign of the Moon also has some effect, generally human (for association) and semi-fertile (for quantity) signs like Gemini and Libra would be best. I would recommend sidereal whole signs for this matter.
Trying to use sidereal makes my head spin. I'm casting the chart in tropical, but keeping the whole sign consideration in mind.

Is culminating the same thing as setting, or does it mean something else?

Angular Jupiter isn't possible during the available time frame for this event, but it will be in domicile (tropical Sagittarius), and no aspect by sign with Saturn or Mars (assuming that's what you mean by malefic testimony). Most of the other ideals you mention will be possible. In fact, the moon will form a conjunction with Venus that day, right after it transits to Aquarius. Gemini and Libra aren't available as moon signs that day, but this launch is actually the culmination of something that started during an Aquarius new moon, so I think it works. And, the moon will have just moved out of its detriment.


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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
It depends on the purpose of the group, if it is for specifically for study, rather than association, here are the points concerning teachings
I - Teacher
IV - Outcome
VII - Student
X - Authority
It's actually a peer astrology study group. There's no official teacher, and no hierarchy besides people taking responsibility for organizing. We're just getting together to practice and learn astrology. Similar to what we do here at AW, only in person.
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According to Dorotheus, let Mercury and the Moon be with human images (Gemini, Virgo, Libra, the first half of Sagittarius, and Aquarius) and in conjunction or trine with each other, with the Moon being waxing, and Mercury being eastern. I would also recommend checking the aforementioned simple principles. Definitely avoid the sixth house unless you intend irrational events.
Sixth house can't be avoided. We only have one available meeting time, and at this time of year, the sun will always be in the sixth house at that time, along with everything else that's in Capricorn right now. So, I guess we're inviting irrational events! (Does that mean unexpected events, or is "irrational" defined some other way?)
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Unread 01-13-2019, 12:34 PM
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Re: How to determine the best time?

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Isn't the sun also operative in the ninth house, and the moon in the third, since those are their respective houses of joy? And are you considering house placements by whole sign, or by quadrant house?
That is something I do not exactly understand, but the third place is inoperative by all accounts in the Hellenistic tradition. The ninth place was thought operative by some authors on account of the trine. Personally, I would avoid these places, but those cadents are definitely much better than the VI and XII.

I personally consider only whole signs, but I do take factor of the Ascendant, Descendant and the points in square. Of course you can do anything you want.

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Which is, of course, absolutely possible to achieve all at once! [Not!] Seriously, none of the possible dates for these elections allow all those ideal placements to exist at the same time.
Yes, try to have as much as of them possible.

Quote:
What's the domicile ruler of the moon? Is that the ruler of the sign the moon is in at the moment? And what's the dodekatemorion of the moon?
Yes, that is the traditional ruler of the sign. The twelfth-part is the sign within the sign - http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/dodekatemorion.html

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If the moon is neither new nor full, does it matter whether it's waxing or waning? I would think waxing would be ideal, especially for a first organizational meeting, since we want our endeavor to grow, but is that correct?
Yes, waxing is better for almost everything that does not involve decrease of prices, disbandment or some kind of destruction.

Quote:
Is culminating the same thing as setting, or does it mean something else?
By culminating, I personally mean being present in the tenth sign, and preferably in close square with the Ascendant.

Quote:
Sixth house can't be avoided. We only have one available meeting time, and at this time of year, the sun will always be in the sixth house at that time, along with everything else that's in Capricorn right now. So, I guess we're inviting irrational events! (Does that mean unexpected events, or is "irrational" defined some other way?)
When the Sun, the Moon and the Lot of Fortune are in the sixth and twelfth house, irrational initiations are born - they do not achieve their specified purpose or end well. This is especially true if the signs are also quadrupedal, or there are angular malefics. Just the Sun is fine I guess. In the Hellenistic tradition, events were treated in the same way as nativities, if this was present in nativities, people with serious congenital defects are born. You can look at any initiative chart and know what it concerns, and how it would end, even without being told about it.

Last edited by petosiris; 01-13-2019 at 12:39 PM.
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Unread 01-13-2019, 06:06 PM
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Re: How to determine the best time?

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When the Sun, the Moon and the Lot of Fortune are in the sixth and twelfth house, irrational initiations are born - they do not achieve their specified purpose or end well. This is especially true if the signs are also quadrupedal, or there are angular malefics. Just the Sun is fine I guess. In the Hellenistic tradition, events were treated in the same way as nativities, if this was present in nativities, people with serious congenital defects are born. You can look at any initiative chart and know what it concerns, and how it would end, even without being told about it.
So everyone with a sixth or twelfth house sun, moon, or POF is born with serious congenital defects? Including, say, Barack Obama? John Lennon? (Sixth house sun people.)

My first instinct is to refute this by telling you I have a twelfth house moon--it's in the twelfth whole sign as well as Placidus--and I'm quite healthy. Said twelfth house moon is in quadrupedal Sagittarius, and I have an angular malefic: Saturn in the seventh (again, both whole sign and Placidus), day chart. But, maybe this counts: I was born prematurely, by two months, and I'm dyspraxic. Only slightly, but it would be much more severe dyspraxia if I hadn't had occupational therapy as a child. It only shows up for me in situations where extra balance is called for. I can walk just fine under normal conditions, but I have extra difficulty with shaky or uneven surfaces.

I was once in an astrology class where everyone had a twelfth house moon. None of them had any apparent defects or disabilities, but I suppose there could've been hidden ones, or childhood issues.
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Unread 01-13-2019, 06:24 PM
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Re: How to determine the best time?

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So everyone with a sixth or twelfth house sun, moon, or POF is born with serious congenital defects? Including, say, Barack Obama? John Lennon? (Sixth house sun people.)

My first instinct is to refute this by telling you I have a twelfth house moon--it's in the twelfth whole sign as well as Placidus--and I'm quite healthy. Said twelfth house moon is in quadrupedal Sagittarius, and I have an angular malefic: Saturn in the seventh (again, both whole sign and Placidus), day chart. But, maybe this counts: I was born prematurely, by two months, and I'm dyspraxic. Only slightly, but it would be much more severe dyspraxia if I hadn't had occupational therapy as a child. It only shows up for me in situations where extra balance is called for. I can walk just fine under normal conditions, but I have extra difficulty with shaky or uneven surfaces.

I was once in an astrology class where everyone had a twelfth house moon. None of them had any apparent defects or disabilities, but I suppose there could've been hidden ones, or childhood issues.
alternatively
not all those twelfth house moon students in astrology class
necessarily had reliable times of birth
so
moon may have been in eleventh or first
dependent on degree
consider also whether
a sidereal chart may have shifted natal moons of all those astrology students
to a house other than twelfth
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Unread 01-13-2019, 06:30 PM
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Re: How to determine the best time?

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
alternatively
not all those twelfth house moon students in astrology class
necessarily had reliable times of birth
so
moon may have been in eleventh or first
dependent on degree
consider also whether
a sidereal chart may have shifted natal moons of all those astrology students
to a house other than twelfth
This was an astrology class, with an experienced astrologer as a teacher. Everyone did have a reliable time of birth. In one case, the teacher questioned the birth time because it was right on the hour, and the ascendant was at 29 degrees of its sign. She determined that the student actually did have the correct rising sign. For the rest of us, the house cusps were such that even if the birth time was a few minutes off, the house placements wouldn't change. We all definitely had twelfth house moons, not first or eleventh, although in some cases the twelfth house moon was in the same sign as the ascendant.
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Unread 01-13-2019, 06:33 PM
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Re: How to determine the best time?

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Dear ms Osamenor

Excuse me Ms Osa, please ignore me if you have to.

Jupiter is very prominent in your chart when I look at your chart in mother's and her friend thread. You might need considering to look at your Jupiter placement.

Opinion

R
Thank you, but that's off topic for this thread. We're talking about event charts, not my natal chart. My mention of my chart is a slight detour. Let's not go too far.
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Unread 01-13-2019, 06:37 PM
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Re: How to determine the best time?

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post


This was an astrology class, with an experienced astrologer as a teacher. Everyone did have a reliable time of birth. In one case, the teacher questioned the birth time because it was right on the hour, and the ascendant was at 29 degrees of its sign. She determined that the student actually did have the correct rising sign. For the rest of us, the house cusps were such that even if the birth time was a few minutes off, the house placements wouldn't change.
We all definitely had twelfth house moons, not first or eleventh,
although in some cases
the twelfth house moon was in the same sign as the ascendant.
nevertheless
using Whole Sign Houses
a twelfth house moon in same sign as ascendant
is a first house moon
irrespective of sidereal or tropical considerations
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Unread 01-13-2019, 06:41 PM
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Re: How to determine the best time?

And one other question for anyone who knows their electional astrology: do you consider which signs the angles are in, for things like a launch party or the start of a new group? For weddings, I've been told, fixed signs are best for a long-lasting marriage, mutable signs mean there will be a lot of change in the marriage, and cardinal signs indicate that the marriage will probably end soon because its purpose has mostly been served already. I also understand that we're looking for at least one angle ruled by a benefic, or by the ruler of the action, or both--is that correct?
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Unread 01-17-2019, 08:50 PM
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Re: How to determine the best time?

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Moon in conjunction with Venus is favorable for celebrations. Let Jupiter, Sun, Venus and Moon be favorably placed. Let Venus be rising or culminating, and let Jupiter be angular without malefic testimony. The sign of the Moon also has some effect, generally human (for association) and semi-fertile (for quantity) signs like Gemini and Libra would be best.
First, the good news: when I looked more closely at the date for the launch party, I found lots of correlations in the transits with the subject of the launch. I think that's a strong sign that we have the right day, astrologically. I've recommended a time to my co-organizers that puts the moon in Aquarius applying conjunction to Venus, which is the most feasible of the ideal placements you mentioned for celebration and association. That time is also very practical for mundane reasons: least likely to conflict with other commitments the guests might have, easy to come and go at the start and end, not a time of day when a major meal would be expected (so we can get away with just snacks).

But, the astrology group start date is harder to get "right":

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7. Avoid the Moon being void of course, the Sun and Moon unfavorably placed, or the domicile ruler of the Moon being cadent, having the dodekatemorion of the Moon fall upon Saturn or Mars. The New Moon is unfavorable concerning evident matters, but favorable concerning hidden matters, the Full Moon with malefics causes quarrels and dissension....

According to Dorotheus, let Mercury and the Moon be with human images (Gemini, Virgo, Libra, the first half of Sagittarius, and Aquarius) and in conjunction or trine with each other, with the Moon being waxing, and Mercury being eastern. I would also recommend checking the aforementioned simple principles. Definitely avoid the sixth house unless you intend irrational events.
We weren't able to start this week, which would've given us a waxing moon. And I'm starting to think I'm overthinking this. If I weren't considering the moon phase, I would be suggesting that we start next week or the week after, because I'm really excited about this.

Is the birth time of this group really the time of our first meeting? Or is it when we first talked about forming one? That happened on the day of the new moon in Capricorn, when it had started to wax, so we've already got waxing moon energy in it. Would having the first "official" meeting during a waning moon really set us up for failure?

We're now pretty settled on which day of the week we'll meet. That makes the start date one of the next three Mondays. The chart factors I've picked up on are these:

#1, January 21st (I'm not sure if this will work for people, being MLK day, but if it does): Moon in Leo, just past full and starting to wane. Sun in early Aquarius. Leo rising at the start time, sun in sixth house but seventh whole sign. (The moon will be in the 12th house but 1st house whole sign, and will be the apex of a yod, with quincunxes to Pluto and Neptune: for anyone who uses modern planets and aspects, I'm interested in exploring that.) This will also be less than 24 hours after the lunar eclipse.

#2, January 28th: Moon waning, in late Scorpio. Leo rising, same sun placement by sign and house. Moon will be void of course by the time we start, though, and stay that way the rest of the day, which means it's probably not a good idea; also, that means both sun and moon will be in fall/detriment. (The other dates do not have void of course moons, at least not at the time we would meet.)

#3, February 4th: Virgo rising at the start time (this date and time were not under consideration originally, but now are). Sun, moon, and Mercury forming a triple conjunction in Aquarius. Moon has started waxing. All three are in the sixth house, whole sign as well as Placidus.

Not where they should be according to traditional rules, apparently, but coming at it from a modern perspective, I think maybe this reflects the purpose of the group quite well. Sixth house is apprenticeship, perfection of skill (I believe it also has some of those implications in traditional astrology?), and since it trines the tenth, it supports career. We're amateur and semi-pro astrologers at varying levels of interest in making a career of it, who want the practice. And Aquarius is the democratic/anarchistic sign, which could reflect the non-hierarchical nature of the group.

Last edited by Osamenor; 01-17-2019 at 10:35 PM. Reason: typo
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Unread 01-17-2019, 09:00 PM
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Re: How to determine the best time?

Sometimes the best election is now. Many times one would lose by waiting, no matter the astrological effects at a certain point in a future. Keep that in mind with every consideration.

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And one other question for anyone who knows their electional astrology: do you consider which signs the angles are in, for things like a launch party or the start of a new group? For weddings, I've been told, fixed signs are best for a long-lasting marriage, mutable signs mean there will be a lot of change in the marriage, and cardinal signs indicate that the marriage will probably end soon because its purpose has mostly been served already.
That is pretty common doctrine, but I say fixed indicates one action without change, changeable indicate the breaking of an action, and double-bodied indicate the breaking of an action for the beginning of another one. However, the benefics and malefics in angles are more important than this testimony in my experience (it also seems unseemly to have three equal types of events).

Quote:
I also understand that we're looking for at least one angle ruled by a benefic, or by the ruler of the action, or both--is that correct?
Rulership does not matter much with Hellenistic elections, much more important and powerful is to have a benefic at any of the angles, especially rising or culminating. The ruler of the action is important as well, sometimes benefics themselves rule the type of actions.

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Unread 01-22-2019, 12:26 PM
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Re: How to determine the best time?

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Sometimes the best election is now. Many times one would lose by waiting, no matter the astrological effects at a certain point in a future. Keep that in mind with every consideration.
That's important to keep in mind

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

That is pretty common doctrine, but I say fixed indicates one action without change, changeable indicate the breaking of an action, and double-bodied indicate the breaking of an action for the beginning of another one. However, the benefics and malefics in angles are more important than this testimony in my experience (it also seems unseemly to have three equal types of events).

Rulership does not matter much with Hellenistic elections, much more important and powerful is to have a benefic at any of the angles, especially rising or culminating. The ruler of the action is important as well, sometimes benefics themselves rule the type of actions
.
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Unread 01-22-2019, 07:47 PM
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Re: How to determine the best time?

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Chris Brennan and Lisa Schaim on electional astrology: http://theastrologypodcast.com/2019/...s-dates-times/
Haven't listened to it all yet, it's over 3 hours, but
sounds good so far.
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Unread 01-23-2019, 05:05 PM
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Re: How to determine the best time?

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
info from Oddity
FREE PODCAST ON ELECTIONAL ASTROLOGY
Just the thing I needed! Thanks for alerting me.
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Unread 01-26-2019, 07:36 PM
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Re: How to determine the best time?

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post

Just the thing I needed! Thanks for alerting me.
more that may be of interest is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVYGZRJrEUg
Picking Dates the Easy Way: The Electional Graph
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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Unread 07-29-2019, 11:36 PM
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Re: How to determine the best time?

I'm trying out my electional skills again, with a chart for the launch of a new feature on my blog, which I hope will bring me some business. What I came up with for date and time looks very, very good, but I want to verify:

I chose August 1st as the launch date, because Mercury will have just turned direct and the moon will have just started to wax. That seems very potent for a new beginning. All that remains to choose is the time: it will be born when I press the button to take that first post live.

I've played around with times that morning, and I really like the idea of having it start with Virgo rising and the MC in Gemini, making that newly direct Mercury the ruler of both. Fitting for an endeavor based on words. There will be a stellium in Leo that day, of Venus, the sun, the moon, and Mars. Virgo rising puts it all in the twelfth house, whole sign, but in Placidus, I can put all or most of them in the eleventh depending on the timing.

That also makes Jupiter the ruler of the IC and DC, so benefic ruled angles, and Jupiter near the IC, too. Jupiter has some "malefic testimony" in a trine to Mars, but the aspect is separating by then. Moon will be applying conjunction to Mars for most of the day, and that will be its closest aspect... I'm not sure I can avoid that.

Eleventh house seems good, although I can't quite put my finger on why. Benefic house?`
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