Who are these people you say? One of them is you. Why do you say that even if Saturn is well placed in the second house it will harm others? That's just bias.Who are these people you keep referring to, Julian? I don't know them.
Saturn in 2 can make you poor. It could also make you rich. Or average. It depends on a lot more than a house placement, and the second house is not the sole indicator of wealth.
If it's in good dignity, there could be a lot of money - but your profit will come from harming other people in some way, or from their misfortune, because Saturn is a malefic. If it's in good dignity, it will hurt you, too, but not as badly as it hurts others.
What if it's your financial signifier? What if it rules Fortuna in the chart?
And how are you defining harm?As to why - that's because Saturn is a malefic, as is Mars. Even well-placed they cause some harm because that is their nature. It's just that the harm tends to be more towards other people than towards the querent, though the querent will receive some harm from the houses those planets are placed in, and the houses that they rule.
Obvious example: What if you make your money by being a prize fighter?
And are the benefics not excessive? Jupiter can bring overindulgence or overconfidence. Venus can bring excessive vanity and superficiality. Or is that not so in traditional astrology?Mars and Saturn are malefics. They cause harm, because that is their nature. A malefic, in traditional astrology, is a planet that is considered too excessive to support life.
All things being equal, Saturn is worse for people born at night, and Mars is worse for people born during the day. But they're both in everyone's chart, and nobody gets through life without being harmed. The malefics and accidental malefics show you where that harm is most likely to come from. Hopefully once you know that, you can minimise the damage.
Both me and my father (he's a Capricorn) agree that people are WAY too harsh on Saturn. People say that if Saturn is in the second house then AUTOMATICALLY you will be extremely poor.
Saturn in the second doesn't make you poor in and of itself, but it might be a contributing factor in feeling poor. From a modern astrology perspective, the second house represents both material and emotional security and resources. Saturn's energy is constrictive. In the second house, that constrictive energy gets applied to your management of resources and your sense of what resources you have. If you fall under the sway of extreme constrictiveness, you might feel poor even when you are not. That could also play out as emotional insecurity or body image problems--you might, for instance, believe that you're ugly or too fat or too thin or just plain unloveable.
Saturn in the second can also lead to wise management of resources. Someone with Saturn in that placement is likely to be frugal and manage their money well. If you also have Jupiter in the second house, and/or expansive Sagittarius on the second house cusp, Saturn reins in the extreme expression of that happy-go-lucky energy, so if you're good at making money, you're not just as good at spending it. In that case, the constrictive energy of Saturn would be working for you.
And are the benefics not excessive? Jupiter can bring overindulgence or overconfidence. Venus can bring excessive vanity and superficiality. Or is that not so in traditional astrology?
I'm not one of those people because I don't say that.
As to why - that's because Saturn is a malefic, as is Mars. Even well-placed they cause some harm because that is their nature. It's just that the harm tends to be more towards other people than towards the querent, though the querent will receive some harm from the houses those planets are placed in, and the houses that they rule.
Obvious example: What if you make your money by being a prize fighter?
I think we understand the general idea, however with Saturn it would be more maybe some dark schemings like dealing drugs at night in a disreputable alley or something like that.Prize fighter is more Martian than Saturnian.
People are just biased. Mars does bad by nature because it is always aggressive and wants to cause harm. But Saturn? Saturn likes to be cautious and organize things! What's wrong with that?
I think we understand the general idea, however with Saturn it would be more maybe some dark schemings like dealing drugs at night in a disreputable alley or something like that.
People are too harsh on Mars, too. To say that anger and aggression and all those Mars things can never be justified is wrong and harmful and a common belief that is often used to control the vulnerable.
I don't have Saturn in the second house, my Saturn is in the 10th (or 11th if you use Whole-signs)
To me, that sounds more like Pluto. Which is not recognized by traditional astrology, and we're dealing with both traditional and modern interpretations in this thread, so perhaps traditional astrology assigns all those Plutonian characteristics to Saturn and/or Mars? If Pluto were recognized by trad, I suspect it would be called malefic. Seems to me that the whole malefic/benefic distinction is much more a traditional thing than a modern astrology thing.I think we understand the general idea, however with Saturn it would be more maybe some dark schemings like dealing drugs at night in a disreputable alley or something like that.
Again, that sounds like Pluto as well. I recently read an article about Pluto transits in which the author said Pluto transits seem to destroy the good qualities of the sign it's transiting, on a societal level. The Pluto in Libra era saw a spike in the divorce rate; Pluto in Virgo saw an increase in processed foods and decrease in nutrition; Pluto in Capricorn has seen worldwide economic collapse (collapse of traditional structure, etc.).Mars can have good qualities. As can Saturn. The point is that they are natural malefics, Mars too hot and dry to support life, Saturn too cold and dry to support life. Even when they're dignified, they are going to bring some harm. That's what they do. It doesn't mean they can never, ever bring good qualities, though.
Yes, but we're trying to give examples of a second house malefic. Having Mars in 2 wouldn't be unheard of for making money by physical damage, but Saturn seems a bit more likely. A lot of the sports folks I've done charts for have Mars above the horizon. No surprise there, really.