Planets 5 Degrees from House Cusps

sworm09

sworm09

Well-known member
Recently I've begun to search for a house system that works for me, and to to this, I looked at the position of my Mars and Mercury. From what I have read, planets 5 degrees from house cusps are felt in the next house. From what I have found, this is not totally true (for my case). Often, it seems as though the planet is active in both houses. In the Placidus house system, my retrograde Leo Mars is conjunct the 6th house cusp, providing a hasty work nature and a tendency to rush through projects. Yet, the nature of a 5th house Mars is also there, subtly. The competitive nature and forceful expression also pop up from time to time. Though the 6th house side is stronger, the 5th is still felt. Over to my Aquarius Mercury, who is conjunct the 12th house cusp, yet in the 11th. I have pretty good writing and speaking ability, and I often play the role of counselor for others. My friendships are based on intellectual rapport, but they're very changeable. On the 12th house side though, I often fear that other people are talking about me behind my back and I talk a great amount more in private settings. I have an interest in Psychology and I easily get confused by details. Looking at this, is it at all possible to have a planet conjunct a house cusp act in both houses?
 
bittermoon

bittermoon

Well-known member
i have saturn in 2nd, close to my 3rd house cusp and my moon is in 7th, almost conjunct my 8th house cusp. i can only speak for myself, but i feel that saturn in 2nd and i feel that moon in 7th. i consider them both to be primarily in those houses, with maybe an influence on the next house.

curious what others think about this.
 
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Frisiangal

Well-known member
sworm09@yahoo.com said:
Recently I've begun to search for a house system that works for me, and to to this, I looked at the position of my Mars and Mercury. From what I have read, planets 5 degrees from house cusps are felt in the next house. From what I have found, this is not totally true (for my case).
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Hi,
Speaking personally I have never gone with this idea, being of the astro. perspective that a planet is situated where it is for a good reason. Otherwise, what's the point? Yet, if I did I wouldn't go beyond the 3 degrees theory and I'd take the speed of motion and state of the planet into consideration. E.g. any planet that is retrograde near a cusp at birth is, through progression (one day after birth = 1 year progressive), going to move further back into the natal house, and not forward into the next. The outer planets move very slowly and even close to a cusp could take years before actually settling into the following house.

I believe the reason that this house cusp planet is felt as working in the next house is that, through progression a personal planet can move into the next house during childhood. The experiences that the individual undergoes over a longer specific time frame then form the perspective later in life that the planet works in the following house. Yet I would say that if you could ask the child its views regarding the circumstances of the natal house planet and the aspects made that it underwent, you might find that these experiences influence and 'form' the manner through which the planet expresses itself in the following house.

A simple example only might be a natal Mercury in Aquarius in 11th house. The interaction with 'groups' and 'people of like mind' that could manifest as media communication and interaction through the computer network. As the child becomes older, the computer moves to the privacy of a 12th house bedroom setting where the child, left to its own devices, enters and communicates through the intangible world of cyberspace. It might even experience the challenges of a retro. Mars in Leo in a 5th house setting.... the desire to personally create, compete and win. If and when Mars turns direct, it may well do so.:smile:
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Alice McDermott

Well-known member
Bear in mind that the house cusps move approximately one degree every four minutes so if you use a five degree orb you have a time variable of approximately 20 minutes i.e. the planet was conjunct that house cusp 20 minutes before you were born.

In my opinion this far, far to much of an orb to allow - a one degree orb should be the maximum. If the house cusp has moved over the planet that planet has moved into the previous house.

It all depends upon which house system is your major resonance. Not all people respond to Placidus, many respond best to Koch or Regiomontanus etc., and these might put that planet in another house. I have written a bit about this here: http://aliceportman.com/house-cusps-and-house-systems/

I also agree with Frisiangal, the progression of a planet into another house will strongly affect that house.

Alice
 
byjove

byjove

Account Closed
All the answers have given me good food for thought. I'll have to revisit this again.

One thing I wanted to add is the heightened importance (in my mind) of a planet around an angle. The angles as we know are four major sources of activity (for all but one house system that I'm aware of) so a planet conjunct an angle for me would get far, far more consideration than otherwise.

In my own chart, I have at least one planet on an angle, it's less than one degree from the MC and I have to tell you that I know the 9th house like the back of my hand, my life is clearly very 9th (and 10th, with 10th planets). If a planet so close to an angle could be more active in time in the following house, how does it light up the succedent house so brightly?
 
Claire19

Claire19

Well-known member
I think 5 degrees is a little wide even with the angular house cusps.
I have the Sun in Leo 5 degrees from my 7th house cusp and I dont really feel the effects.

I do however have Saturn right on the 5th/6th cusp and feel the effects in both houses especially as it contacts a planet right in the 6th house.
 
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wintersprite1

wintersprite1

Premium Member
The reason to allow for the 5 degree orb is that the most potent degree of a house is the cusp. So, any planet applying to a conjunction with the house cusp within 5 degrees is considered "in that house". When working with Horary, it seems more often than not to be the case in answers. So when I work with Natal charts, I consider the applying aspect stronger, but still also include the physical house it is in also.

TK
 
byjove

byjove

Account Closed
wintersprite1 said:
The reason to allow for the 5 degree orb is that the most potent degree of a house is the cusp. So, any planet applying to a conjunction with the house cusp within 5 degrees is considered "in that house".
TK
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I still don't quite understand, I know that energy is being applied to a new location, but it's not quite there yet.

Perhaps it's something like a person approaching to shake your hand, their presence may have been 'registered' in their approach but the culmination is with the handshake?

I'm still open on this either way.
 
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Alice McDermott

Well-known member
wintersprite1 said:
The reason to allow for the 5 degree orb is that the most potent degree of a house is the cusp. So, any planet applying to a conjunction with the house cusp within 5 degrees is considered "in that house". When working with Horary, it seems more often than not to be the case in answers. So when I work with Natal charts, I consider the applying aspect stronger, but still also include the physical house it is in also.

TK
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Its the other way around, the house cusp is applying to the planet or is separating from the planet.

House cusps are the fastest moving points in a chart, they move a degree approximately every four minutes and no planet or light moves anything like that fast.

Alic
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Alice McDermott said:
Its the other way around, the house cusp is applying to the planet or is separating from the planet.

House cusps are the fastest moving points in a chart, they move a degree approximately every four minutes and no planet or light moves anything like that fast.

Alic
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The apparent motion of the Sun = 1º every four minutes :smile:


btw traditionally, the Sun is aka one of the 'Lights' and the other 'Light' is the Moon
 
tsmall

tsmall

Premium Member
Alice McDermott said:
Its the other way around, the house cusp is applying to the planet or is separating from the planet.
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Planets advance to or retreat from angles and cusps. Yes, the ASC moves quickly, but for instance we would say that Jupiter is applying to the ASC or MC, not that the MC is applying to Jupiter.
 
Claire19

Claire19

Well-known member
wintersprite1 said:
The reason to allow for the 5 degree orb is that the most potent degree of a house is the cusp. So, any planet applying to a conjunction with the house cusp within 5 degrees is considered "in that house". When working with Horary, it seems more often than not to be the case in answers. So when I work with Natal charts, I consider the applying aspect stronger, but still also include the physical house it is in also.

TK
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I am not sure about the potency of a house is the cusp. The ruler of that cusp and where it is has a major effect. However any planets conjuncting that house cusp and within that house are much more powerful. The ruler of the cusp may be very different to the planets in the house in question. All this has to be synthesised.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Alice McDermott said:
House cusps are the fastest moving points in a chart, they move a degree approximately every four minutes and no planet or light moves anything like that fast.

Alic
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Nevertheless, once the time of birth is reliably noted and the natal chart calculated and created THEN the house cusps remain static so far as the radix is concerned.

Individual planets are then delineated as either 'applying to' or 'separating from' the various other planets, angles and cusps.

Transiting planets also are described as either 'entering' or 'leaving' houses i.e. 'applying t'o or 'separating' from a particular house cusp :smile:
 
tsmall

tsmall

Premium Member
stainedBlue said:
Latitude is how this idea came about, isn't it?
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If the idea you are referring to is that a planet within 5* of the next house cusp is read as being in the next house, it has more to do with the different ways of dividing the quadrants into houses.

The entire problem is eliminated when you use whole signs for a house system. The angles remain the same, the distance from the angles determines whether a planet is strong, advancing, or cadent. And the house cusps are particularly sensitive points in the houses.
 
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Frisiangal

Well-known member
wintersprite1 said:
The reason to allow for the 5 degree orb is that the most potent degree of a house is the cusp. So, any planet applying to a conjunction with the house cusp within 5 degrees is considered "in that house". When working with Horary, it seems more often than not to be the case in answers. So when I work with Natal charts, I consider the applying aspect stronger, but still also include the physical house it is in also.

TK
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Hi,
I don't work with horary. Are you saying that the 5 degree before a cusp theory finds its origin in horary technique and 'has crept into' natal interpretation, rather like e.g. the '5th from the 7th' influence has?

Holland's Karen Hamaker is adamant about the 3degree before a cusp as working in the next house 'rule'. Her school is the most populated by students. Yet no one who has followed her school training has been able to give me an adequate explanation for the retrograde planet and childhood states, as I mentioned earlier. Where there's a kink in the astrological cable is reason for me to check that all is as it should be and not as is proclaimed it will be.:smile:
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
We find some of the Islamic transitional era authors such as Ibn Ezra (early 12th century) talking about 2 degrees before a cusp meaning that "all of the planet's influence" is "taken into" the next house (quotes from Ibn Ezra)-this is an early elaboration of the planet-near-house-cusp idea, which was apparently growing in importance at that time under the dominance of the quadrant house concept (which had become the main house-division method in the West a couple centuries earlier, replacing whole sign)
 
A

Alice McDermott

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:
The apparent motion of the Sun = 1º every four minutes :smile:


btw traditionally, the Sun is aka one of the 'Lights' and the other 'Light' is the Moon
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The Sun moves approximately 1 degree per day. The Moon is faster, with an average movement of 12 degrees per day. None of this comes close to the angles and house cusps, which move approximately 1 degree every four minutes, so it is always the house cusps that apply and separate.

Yes, in any form of astrology, not just traditional, the Sun is one of the lights and the Moon is the other.

Alice
 
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Alice McDermott

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:
Nevertheless, once the time of birth is reliably noted and the natal chart calculated and created THEN the house cusps remain static so far as the radix is concerned.

Individual planets are then delineated as either 'applying to' or 'separating from' the various other planets, angles and cusps.

Transiting planets also are described as either 'entering' or 'leaving' houses i.e. 'applying t'o or 'separating' from a particular house cusp :smile:
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I have never heard of that! Why would the house cusps be static and the planets still move, it doesn't make sense.

I think describing planets as entering or leaving a house is just a misunderstanding based on perhaps a lack of knowledge of the calculations behind the chart.

Alice
 
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