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  #51  
Unread 10-06-2015, 10:35 PM
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Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

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With what?
With agreeing and disagreeing.

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  #52  
Unread 10-06-2015, 10:38 PM
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Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Heidy, I was not attacking you and I did not see your edit. I can't control your reactions, obviously, but that's the deal.

Why 'exalting' things can be bad: Saturn's in Sag, sun in Libra, yes? Saturn is obligated to provide for the sun as best he can - but he really can't, the people are poles apart in needs and wants, which we see from the sun being detrimented.

The sun is not comfortable in Libra, and as a rule sun and Saturn aren't planetary friends. But if it's a day chart, then Saturn is in sun's triplicity and we'll assume that Saturn and sun are sextile, which is going to ease things a bit.

It's not about like, love, adore, exalt, or even hate. Can a relationship happen with these planets? Yes, but you can't gauge interest by looking at those positions, it just doesn't work. If the sun happens to be in 7, then we'll assume that the sun is more keen, and since sun is the applying planet, that can show more desire as well. Sun's not exalting anything. Just going with the Libra-Sag positions, it could be that Saturn feels obligated for whatever reason to provide/do something for sun. Not saying it is, but it certainly can be. With only the sign positions, that's a possibility.

It's the aspect (and the moon) that shows you if anything is likely to happen. If, say, Saturn is at 14 Sag, and sun is at 22 Libra, nothing's going to happen, the moment has passed. Other way round, it's possible, especially if the moon is being helpful.

Frawley's got it back to front, and when people adopt his terminology (loves, exalts, what have you) then they start talking it back to front as well.

Ideally, you want to see the quesited receiving the querent, as the querent will have less work to do to bring about the desired outcome. Sometimes this can be preferable to mutual reception. In horary it can be a bit different, but in the normal course of things you do not want your planet receiving a malefic - if it does, it's pretty much giving the malefic free reign to do what it wants.
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  #53  
Unread 10-06-2015, 10:42 PM
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Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

I agree with tsmall that the concept of "A exalts B" is not the best way to describe it, because it may not apply "well" for every charts (mostly those that are not relationship charts), and might create confusion for some inexperienced astrologers if they read the post.

But since most of us involved in the topic do have some astrological knowledge, saying "A exalts B" or saying "B recieves A in its exaltation" is irrelevant, given that everyone understands what is being said.

To me "A exalts B" is just faster to type.

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  #54  
Unread 10-06-2015, 10:45 PM
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Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Oddity, please see my reply, I just added info on the actual chart.
Sun is in 9 Libra, Saturn in 1 Sag conjuncting MC. Mercury is at 4 Libra, rx, separating from Sun and applying to Saturn.

Moon separates from opp to Saturn and trine to Sun and Mercury, will soon apply to a square to Venus in Leo.
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  #55  
Unread 10-06-2015, 10:46 PM
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Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

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I agree with tsmall that the concept of "A exalts B" is not the best way to describe it, because it may not apply "well" for every charts (mostly those that are not relationship charts), and might create confusion for some inexperienced astrologers if they read the post.

But since most of us involved in the topic do have some astrological knowledge, saying "A exalts B" or saying "B recieves A in its exaltation" is irrelevant, given that everyone understands what is being said.

To me "A exalts B" is just faster to type.

Now that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying, this is useful for others too.
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  #56  
Unread 10-06-2015, 10:50 PM
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Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

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I agree with tsmall that the concept of "A exalts B" is not the best way to describe it, because it may not apply "well" for every charts (mostly those that are not relationship charts), and might create confusion for some inexperienced astrologers if they read the post.

But since most of us involved in the topic do have some astrological knowledge, saying "A exalts B" or saying "B recieves A in its exaltation" is irrelevant, given that everyone understands what is being said.

To me "A exalts B" is just faster to type.

'A is in B's exaltation' is really, really more correct, and I don't think it's just my editor's disease kicking in here. I think it may be that saying something is 'exalting' something gives the impression that something good is going on. When L1 receives L8, something very NOT nice is going on.

Is 'L1 receives L8' that much harder to type? I know you know what you're doing, Dirius, but I just see this whole 'exalt/loves' thing leading to us becoming as obscure as Lilly is when he's describing, say, Planet A aspecting Planet B that's in Planet A's decensions.

Let's not do that to anyone who might read us!
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  #57  
Unread 10-06-2015, 11:01 PM
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Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

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'A is in B's exaltation' is really, really more correct, and I don't think it's just my editor's disease kicking in here. I think it may be that saying something is 'exalting' something gives the impression that something good is going on. When L1 receives L8, something very NOT nice is going on.

Is 'L1 receives L8' that much harder to type? I know you know what you're doing, Dirius, but I just see this whole 'exalt/loves' thing leading to us becoming as obscure as Lilly is when he's describing, say, Planet A aspecting Planet B that's in Planet A's decensions.

Let's not do that to anyone who might read us!
Yes I suppose so. Ok "A is in B's exaltation" should be the proper astrological correct term then
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  #58  
Unread 10-06-2015, 11:13 PM
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Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Dirius - L7 receives L1. Saturn receives sun.

Is it that much more difficult? Now it IS my editor's disease kicking in, but this stuff can get so twisty, and doncha love it when you later read 'but Dirius said it means they're madly in love' when you meant the exact opposite, and the horary involves people going to the law court over who gets custody of the microwave because they hate each other so much in the messiest divorce ever?
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  #59  
Unread 10-06-2015, 11:19 PM
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Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

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Dirius - L7 receives L1. Saturn receives sun.

Is it that much more difficult? Now it IS my editor's disease kicking in, but this stuff can get so twisty, and doncha love it when you later read 'but Dirius said it means they're madly in love' when you meant the exact opposite, and the horary involves people going to the law court over who gets custody of the microwave because they hate each other so much in the messiest divorce ever?
HAHA , the example actually made me lmao.

I get what you are saying. But no! I seriously dislike the word "receiving".

I usually misstype it. Thats mainly the reason
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  #60  
Unread 10-06-2015, 11:38 PM
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Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

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HAHA , the example actually made me lmao.

I get what you are saying. But no! I seriously dislike the word "receiving".

I usually misstype it. Thats mainly the reason
Fair enough, but bad spelling doesn't seem to stop most people from posting.

On a personal note, and I may not be the only one, when I see someone saying 'A exalts B', I assume that they're doing Frawley style receptions, even though I probably shouldn't.
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  #61  
Unread 10-06-2015, 11:45 PM
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Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

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Fair enough, but bad spelling doesn't seem to stop most people from posting.

On a personal note, and I may not be the only one, when I see someone saying 'A exalts B', I assume that they're doing Frawley style receptions, even though I probably shouldn't.
Most likely they are.

I actually use Frawley's reception. I do like them better
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  #62  
Unread 10-06-2015, 11:52 PM
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Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

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Most likely they are.

I actually use Frawley's reception. I do like them better
And I think that Frawley's receptions owe a lot to Olivia Barclay's 'mistranslation' of Lilly - not to knock her, I would have done worse, I'm certain.

It also brings up some interesting questions, cos you use them, Rafaella uses them, John Frawley uses them and while I disagree with him about many matters astrological, he is certainly competent to read a chart. As are you and Rafaella.

The whole exalts, loves, hates thing makes me crazy when I see it, though.
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  #63  
Unread 10-07-2015, 12:06 AM
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Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

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And I think that Frawley's receptions owe a lot to Olivia Barclay's 'mistranslation' of Lilly - not to knock her, I would have done worse, I'm certain.

It also brings up some interesting questions, cos you use them, Rafaella uses them, John Frawley uses them and while I disagree with him about many matters astrological, he is certainly competent to read a chart. As are you and Rafaella.

The whole exalts, loves, hates thing makes me crazy when I see it, though.
Well there are 2 things that can be debated about Frawley's reception. The first one is as you mention the concept of "love/hate" and the other one is the implication of who has the powers over the other. I was actually hoping that some day we would open this debate, given that it is one of the most interesting ones in horary technique.

The first one, which makes you mad, I actually understand why it bothers you.

The problem is rather that people take too literally the example provided by Frawley on that sense. The explanation of Love (rulership), Infatuation (exaltation), Friendship (triplicity), etc., is just an example of the different "degrees" of afinity for one planet in a sense, so the reader can understand why rulership is in a way stronger than triplicity, and that, which does translate well when relating it to the affinity for the significators when places in rulership or triplicity.

For love horary, it does work well though. Many times the particular interest from querent/quesited can be taken from this line of thinking.

But anyone that progresses into more advance methods, can eventually realise that the concept of a planet "loving" another planet, has more to do with the planet being ruled by the other (or received in his dignity), which makes up the hierarchy in the chart.
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  #64  
Unread 10-07-2015, 01:22 AM
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Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

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Yes in relationship questions (at least in my opinion) it is pretty straightfoward:

L7 exalts L1 = quesited likes querent a lot.
I thought it was the other way around. That that L7 is being received by L1, and so L1 doing the receiving or ("entertaining", like a party at your house, as I put it in my mind) means that L1 likes L7 a great deal??
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  #65  
Unread 10-07-2015, 03:15 AM
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Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Let's go back to sun in Libra and Saturn in Sag, and pretend it's a day chart, and those are our significators. Just to try to keep some continuity, ok?

The sun is detrimented, and it's in Saturn's house. Saturn receives the sun by exaltation, and sun receives Saturn by triplicity.

Ok, that's a start.

Is there an aspect? We'll put Saturn at 10 Sag and sun at 8 Libra. Yes, they're sextile.

This gives Saturn the ability to do something for the sun, and the reception by triplicity makes the sun somewhat more open to that than it might otherwise be.

So who likes who? Well, the sun is applying, moving faster than Saturn, so we can adjudge that the sun is probably the fonder.

Forget geometry for a moment. If sun rules 1 and we find Saturn there, then Saturn may be the fonder - he is in the sun's house. If we found sun in 7, sun might be the fonder, as he's in Saturn's house.

Reception is willingness. Aspect is ability to act. Who loves the best (which is NOT the issue in most love horaries, the issue is will you get together), if it can be determined at all, is more determined by planetary application or house (opposed to sign) position. At least that's the way I've seen it work out.
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  #66  
Unread 10-04-2019, 11:41 PM
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Since this topic specifically addresses receptions involving Sun in Libra with Saturn I would like to propose a particular configuration found in a love horary. The querent has asked, “Does he still love me? - Will there be contact?”

The chart is Leo Rising. Sun is in Libra applying a square to Saturn in Capricorn located in the querent’s fifth house. There is no other aspect to Saturn in this chart except for L1s impending application.

What is Saturn willing-for in this case, L1 in its fall, in the question proposed by the querent? Additionally, what does it relay to the astrologer when a signifactor is Saturn to begin with?

Last edited by vcms; 10-05-2019 at 01:03 AM.
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  #67  
Unread 10-05-2019, 04:41 AM
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Re: Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

If the sun and Saturn are in an applying square relationship, there's likely to be some contact, but the matter probably will not work out. (I think this is from William Lilly.)

Saturn is typically Bad News, but its ill effects are somewhat mitigated when Saturn is domiciled (happening now) or when Saturn is somehow appropriate to the question that is asked. For example, if the question is about grandpa rather than a lover.
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Last edited by waybread; 10-05-2019 at 04:43 AM.
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