Mental illness in my next solar return?

Hi everyone,
this is my first post here! I really hope someone can some light on this for me. Have only been looking into Astrology for the last couple of months, so there are a lot of things I don't understand yet ... but I'm fascinated and want to learn!

So my specific question is: how important are Solar returns as opposed to transits, progressions, and all the other dozens of different predictive methods out there?

My next solar return has me extremely worried: my sun will be in the 12th house opposing Jupiter in the 6th. Looking back at previous solar returns, I have had the sun in the 12th only twice before, and both times I struggled with suicidal depression. I had one other bout with suicidal depression, and that year my solar return shows Mars in the 12th house, again opposing Jupiter in the 6th. (Jupiter is also in the 6th house in my natal chart.)

I'm kind of freaking out a bit, as each time I had to deal with mental illness it got worse, and last time I actually tried to commit suicide. This is 8 years ago and I thought I'd never have to go through that again, have been feeling quite sane ever since. I can't really imagine ever descending into those depths again being the person I am now, but this solar return chart has me wondering ...

Any ideas?

I appreciate your time, thanks everyone for reading!

It is possible to see some information from solar return, but no it would have to be SR+transits.

What is more likely is that you would be primed towards the neptunian existential questions/worries basically a mode of existence that you have felt before and recurrent in your life. It doesnt necessarily mean the same situation in fact its always different.

what gets me is neptune square sun, and ive had this a lot in the past before at a younger age. yet only two out of 5 times or so it actually went bad.

if you think about those areas of your life they were probably different, and exceptional in discreet ways.

the point of the SR reccurence is to break out of the cycle (karmic pitfalls) and see it as a culmination point instead of falling. of course in order to acheive that one must take the steps of prevention.

if for example you have saturn or pluto in hard aspect somewhere the likelyhood of depression will increase, but now that you know these sorts of things there should be some transit or configuration in the solar return that determines a better outcome. (uranus) or something of that sort.

it would also depend on the configuration of your natal chart, but the worry is because of a situation from (now).

plus for example if you've gone through several other stages they would echo, and perhaps even if it does happen it would be more sarcastic and paradoxical.

the solar return is of course having to do with the sun (not other returns) it is about the directionality of ego manifestation. it is not exactly correlary to transits, but they wouldnt be seperate. it also covers a "year" while other modes break up the months (lunar return). it designates some contact of several stages.

so for example a solar house or natal house jupiter entering 2nd the SR would produce a benefic in the 2nd only if it the ego is manifesting these things in the first place which would amount to several precursor transits/positions culminating towards 2nd.

if for example sun is in the 12th (more malliable to energies) opposing jupiter in the 6th, jupiter would be an increase of health possibly, but since it is in hard aspect to sun with maybe other aspects in the SR or natal then it could be taking too much acid.

Thank you so much, gen6k, for your detailed answer! It has helped me a lot, giving scope for further exploration and reassuring me that transits also have to be taken into account.

Curiously, you've hit the nail on the head when you mentioned I "would be primed towards the neptunian existential questions/worries" - this made me laugh because you've intuitively picked up the strongest influence in my natal chart. I have Neptune almost exactly conjunct the sun (orb of 0.03) in the MC, Asc Pisces, and to top it off the Moon in the 1st house as the apex of a fan-shaped cluster.

In my next SR Neptune will be squaring my sun ... but it's good to know that it doesn't have to turn bad.

Thank for for pointing out the gist of the SR recurrence (the directionality of ego manifestation, to break out of the cycle and see it as a culmination point instead of falling) - as a total newbie this had escaped me and indeed puts a bit more of a positive spin on it.

The steps of prevention you mention, "some transit or configuration in the solar return that determines a better outcome. (uranus) or something of that sort," is there anything I can actively do? Or is it just knowing about it that will help? I will have Uranus in the SR forming a trine with Mercury and a sextile with Jupiter, but no idea how that could be beneficial in that situation. Maybe that it would be easier for me to talk about my inner upheaval, rather than withdrawing into silence as I usually do (natal Saturn square Mercury)? I have attached the SR chart in case you can see anything.

Sorry if I ask too many questions ... feel free to just advise me to keep studying!

It makes sense to think if it does happen it would be more sarcastic and paradoxical - I can't really imagine ever going there again as deeply as I did before, after all the work I have done with my psychotherapist the last time around.

I'm sorry I don't quite get what you mean with this your last paragraph "...then it could be taking too much acid." Do you mean I could feel like having taken too much acid (i.e. LSD hallucinations)? Or that I would have too much stomach acid? Or something else?

Anyway, here is my SR chart. Thanks again for your help!

Hey you should really take it easy next year. you have 5 points to neptune next to chiron. its definetly going to be a more dispersed state of mind.

neptune square mercury and neptune square venus. dont spend your time chasing false idealistic romances or romances where after you are unspelled seem unsuitable. neptune square mercury, stay mentally healthy as you will be receiving more type of fuzzy information or confused dreams.

try to balance the 12th stellium with the Taurus/Gemini 6th house.

youre prone to some kind of neurosis that year, but overall your emotions are more short-tempered and spiritual.

its more of a year to contemplate a next stage probably.

Thanks heaps for your further elaboration. So it does look like I may have another brush with mental illness/ neurosis etc.

I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean by "try to balance the 12th stellium with the Taurus/Gemini 6th house." Would you be able to give an example please? I feel like I need all the advice I can get if I want to get through that year at least semi-sane ...

well you have a lot going on with the 12th so you kinda would want to take your (oceanic idealism) energy and transfer it over to (ordered analysis) type things with the jupiter there. jupiter is what is being expanded (6) daily routine, work, health, service. so by getting out of your head and looking at more geminian/taurus type things instead of darker subjects there would be less droning in the mind. basically go out to the library and read a book or help someone out with something. or listen to some soft music. your mars is in the 2nd house so there would be considerable drive towards possesions/self-worth. mars could go both ways in feeling it could be tension, agression, ignition, and sometimes radiance.

watch out for scorpio-sag mercury type archetypes in your mind, and scorpio venus type things. well basically take the eagle route instead of the scorpion.

also take in mind that its more what you're working on than what is in the transits.

overall you probably just need to relax because the considerable obstacles are in your mind, and this solar return isnt even bad. no saturn or pluto to turn it extra morbid.

Thank you! I really appreciate all your help.

I feel a bit silly now needing this spelled out for me - what you say makes a lot of sense, it's almost too obvious. During my last episode, what helped me most was becoming a volunteer for a hospice service. I'm still with this organisation now and helping/ being there for others in this way is one of my main sources of meaning and strength.
Also good to know there is nothing extra morbid in this SR...

asperyogi said:

Hi everyone,
this is my first post here! I really hope someone can some light on this for me. Have only been looking into Astrology for the last couple of months, so there are a lot of things I don't understand yet ... but I'm fascinated and want to learn!

So my specific question is: how important are Solar returns as opposed to transits, progressions, and all the other dozens of different predictive methods out there?

My next solar return has me extremely worried: my sun will be in the 12th house opposing Jupiter in the 6th. Looking back at previous solar returns, I have had the sun in the 12th only twice before, and both times I struggled with suicidal depression. I had one other bout with suicidal depression, and that year my solar return shows Mars in the 12th house, again opposing Jupiter in the 6th. (Jupiter is also in the 6th house in my natal chart.)

I'm kind of freaking out a bit, as each time I had to deal with mental illness it got worse, and last time I actually tried to commit suicide. This is 8 years ago and I thought I'd never have to go through that again, have been feeling quite sane ever since. I can't really imagine ever descending into those depths again being the person I am now, but this solar return chart has me wondering ...

Any ideas?

I appreciate your time, thanks everyone for reading!

Click to expand...

Go back to those previous years and do Precessed Solar Returns for them.

To do this on astro.com, select Fagan-Bradley geocentric (sidereal) for the Zodiac and Campanus for the house system. Then calculate Solar Return.

Find out which planets were in angular sectors on those years. This includes those within 6 degrees either side of each angle.

There's a high probability that at least a couple of the difficult planets such as Saturn, Mars, Neptune, etc. may have been angular with hard aspects involving them or a luminary. Chiron should also be checked for.

Then do a Precessed Solar Return for this year & see which ones will be angular and check for any similar patterns as those previous years.

Precessed Solar Returns more accurately reflect which planets will exert the strongest influences for the upcoming year.

Thanks for the extra perspective, Mist Knacker! It's great to get a few pointers as to which charts/ methods are the most accurate for a particular type of question. As a beginner, I have to admit I'm quite confused by the long list of different options on astro.com and have only just scratched the surface.

So the precessed SR charts for those three years do have a few things in common, as you said, difficult planets on the angles, and also involved in hard aspects.

The first has Pluto & Jupiter in the DC, Uranus & Neptune in the MC. Also Saturn involved in a T-square with Mars, and with Pluto/ Jupiter conjunct at the apex.
The second again has Pluto in the DC, also the Sun, and again Uranus and Neptune in the MC. Another T-square too, but this time between Jupiter & Moon with the Sun at the apex. Saturn square Neptune and Moon square Pluto too.
The third has Uranus in the DC. Again a T-square, between Jupiter & Mars, with Pluto conjunct the Sun at the apex. Saturn and Moon in tight conjunction, both opposing Chiron and and Mercury.

Now the one coming up has the Sun in the AC, and Neptune as well as Chiron in the IC. Pluto squares Uranus and Neptune squares Mercury, Venus, Jupiter.

Am I correct if I guess that the upcoming SR may not be as problematic, as this time at least there will be no T-square, and no Uranus on an angle? What I do see in common is Neptune on an angle again, as well as Pluto, Uranus and Neptune involved in hard aspects again.

For comparison I also just had a look at one of my best years in recent times: not a single planet on an angle there, but Pluto involved in multiple hard aspects, including with Uranus and Saturn. This makes me think that perhaps these hard aspects are not as influential as long as there are no difficult planets on any angles? Is this correct?

Thanks again, this is a really good exercise!

asperyogi said:

Thanks for the extra perspective, Mist Knacker! It's great to get a few pointers as to which charts/ methods are the most accurate for a particular type of question. As a beginner, I have to admit I'm quite confused by the long list of different options on astro.com and have only just scratched the surface.

So the precessed SR charts for those three years do have a few things in common, as you said, difficult planets on the angles, and also involved in hard aspects.

The first has Pluto & Jupiter in the DC, Uranus & Neptune in the MC. Also Saturn involved in a T-square with Mars, and with Pluto/ Jupiter conjunct at the apex.
The second again has Pluto in the DC, also the Sun, and again Uranus and Neptune in the MC. Another T-square too, but this time between Jupiter & Moon with the Sun at the apex. Saturn square Neptune and Moon square Pluto too.
The third has Uranus in the DC. Again a T-square, between Jupiter & Mars, with Pluto conjunct the Sun at the apex. Saturn and Moon in tight conjunction, both opposing Chiron and and Mercury.

Now the one coming up has the Sun in the AC, and Neptune as well as Chiron in the IC.

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From my observations, years with angular Chiron and/or Neptune can be difficult psychologically if there are hard aspects involved. The effects of those placements will be enhanced in a month of the year if the precessed Lunar Return for it also has those same planets angular.

Here are my personal experiences with angular Chiron and Neptune in precessed returns. The other planets (aside from Sun & Moon) that Chiron and Neptune were in hard aspect with were angular as well.

1996 Solar Year:
Chiron square Jupiter, Neptune square Mars. This is the year the bipolar disorder hit. This year was the second worst year in my life.

2004 Solar Year:
Chiron square Mercury. Neptune opposite Moon, Neptune square Sun. 2004 was a terrible year (if not the worst year I ever had)! I was hospitalized for bipolar mania, paranoia, suicidal depression, and other delusions. Later in that same Solar Year, I attempted suicide.

2005 Solar Year:
Neptune & Chiron square Sun. In August 2005, I got booted out of the frozen foods department at Wal-Mart and then got demoted back to stock associate. I did not show up to the Inventory due to depression. The precessed Lunar Return for that month also had angular Neptune which was opposite Mercury.

2006 Solar Year:
T-Square involving Chiron, Saturn and the Sun. Neptune was angular with Chiron as well. I abandoned my job at Wal-Mart (which was very stressful physically) due to a period of depression (which was being aggravated to too much stress) on the month when those same planets were also angular in the precessed Lunar Return.

2007 Solar Year:
T-Square involving Neptune/Chiron, Saturn, and the Sun. Because of depression that was never getting better, I dropped out of college about 6 weeks after the beginning of the Solar Year after initially being enthusiastic about going back.

2011 Solar Year:
Neptune/Chiron were angular, but they had no hard aspects. I experienced mainly the positive side of these planets. I watched movies a lot and spent much of the year training to be a music composer and producer. 2011 was a good year overall.

My 2012 Solar Year has angular Chiron/Neptune opposite Mars, and I'm experiencing some similar health issues I did in some of those previous years but to a significantly lesser degree. The opposition forms a Wedge pattern (trine/sextile my Sun) rather than a T-Square, so it's easier. I'm still progressing well with my musical training.

Pluto squares Uranus and Neptune squares Mercury, Venus, Jupiter.
Am I correct if I guess that the upcoming SR may not be as problematic, as this time at least there will be no T-square, and no Uranus on an angle? What I do see in common is Neptune on an angle again,

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With Neptune as well as Chiron (since they are currently conjunct), there could possibly be some issues, but since there is not a T-Square, it may not be as bad. Does Neptune make aspects to the Sun or Moon as well?

as well as Pluto, Uranus and Neptune involved in hard aspects again.

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If Pluto and Uranus are not angular, then you don't have to worry about them.

For comparison I also just had a look at one of my best years in recent times: not a single planet on an angle there, but Pluto involved in multiple hard aspects, including with Uranus and Saturn. This makes me think that perhaps these hard aspects are not as influential as long as there are no difficult planets on any angles? Is this correct?

Click to expand...

The hard aspects won't have much effect if they are the middle or background sectors.

So, for example, if you have a Saturn square Moon in your precessed Solar Return, but Saturn is resting in the background, then you don't have to worry about it.

Thanks again, this is a really good exercise!

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You're welcome.

Thanks again Mist Knacker, this makes a lot of sense and has cleared up all my questions. Good point about the lunar returns too, I'll have a look at them. Sorry to hear about your struggles with depression etc., but also very interesting to see your personal experience related back to your precessed chart in those years. Thanks for sharing!

Mist Knacker said:

2004 Solar Year:
Chiron square Mercury. Neptune opposite Moon, Neptune square Sun. 2004 was a terrible year (if not the worst year I ever had)! I was hospitalized for bipolar mania, paranoia, suicidal depression, and other delusions. Later in that same Solar Year, I attempted suicide.

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2004, coincidentally, was also my worst year (the third in my previous post). Daylight hallucinations, suicidal depression, paranoia - the works. But strangely, that year only had Uranus on an angle, and no hard aspects to it in the precessed return. In the normal SR, however, this year has Chiron exactly in the MC, squaring both the Moon and Saturn conjunct the IC. This makes me wonder about the difference between precessed and "normal" solar returns ... should they, in theory, tell a similar story, but with different emphasis, or is there another, greater difference between them? Do people use them alongside each other and compare or is the astrologers' community divided into distinct camps, i.e. the ones that use precessed and the ones that don't?

Mist Knacker said:

With Neptune as well as Chiron (since they are currently conjunct), there could possibly be some issues, but since there is not a T-Square, it may not be as bad. Does Neptune make aspects to the Sun or Moon as well?

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Yes, Neptune makes a nice trine with the Moon! So I'm hoping that that will help ... also relieved to know that Pluto and Uranus not being angular, I don't have to worry about them.

If it's not too personal a question, do you see anything in your natal chart that you'd say predisposes you to mental health issues? Just curious ... personally I have Neptune almost exactly conjunct the sun, Asc Pisces, and the Moon as the apex of a fan-shaped cluster. I can definitely feel the extreme sensitivity and boundarylessness that comes with these aspects, and kinda think these are at the root of my own mental health issues.

Still such a newbie though, and so much to learn! Thanks for your help!

asperyogi said:

Thanks again Mist Knacker, this makes a lot of sense and has cleared up all my questions. Good point about the lunar returns too, I'll have a look at them. Sorry to hear about your struggles with depression etc., but also very interesting to see your personal experience related back to your precessed chart in those years. Thanks for sharing!



2004, coincidentally, was also my worst year (the third in my previous post). Daylight hallucinations, suicidal depression, paranoia - the works. But strangely, that year only had Uranus on an angle, and no hard aspects to it in the precessed return. In the normal SR, however, this year has Chiron exactly in the MC, squaring both the Moon and Saturn conjunct the IC. This makes me wonder about the difference between precessed and "normal" solar returns ... should they, in theory, tell a similar story, but with different emphasis, or is there another, greater difference between them?

Click to expand...

For my 2011 Solar Year, there was a huge difference between my regular Solar Return and precessed one. It was like night and day.

In the regular one, there was an angular T-Square involving the stellium of planets in April 2011 opposite Saturn and square Pluto. The stellium fell in the first house. The T-Square made hard aspects to natal Moon and Jupiter as well as minor ones to Mars. Additionally, the SR ASC was conjunct my natal DSC within few degrees. That Solar Return looked like one scary beast. I knew about that one since 2009, and I was really anxious about.

Then, later, I looked at the precessed one, and the T-Square was in the middle-ground sectors. Neptune & Chiron were the only angular planets, and they had no hard aspects. The year ended up turning out according to the precessed chart.

Do people use them alongside each other and compare or is the astrologers' community divided into distinct camps, i.e. the ones that use precessed and the ones that don't?

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Some who use precessed use the regular one alongside with it. I use primarily precessed now.

I don't think most on this forum use precessed, though.

Here are a couple pages that discuss more about how precession-corrected Solar Returns work.
http://therealastrology.com/ask-kevin/advanced-techniques/316-precession-corrected-solar-returns.html
http://ninthhouse.wordpress.com/essay-index/precession/tarot-my-interest-areas/

The precessed return chart will show which planets will exert the greatest influence over the coming period based on their angularity. After finding out these planets, you focus on them and the aspects between them. Then you can look at the regular return chart and see which houses (areas of life) these planets affect by their placement and rulership.

Yes, Neptune makes a nice trine with the Moon! So I'm hoping that that will help ... also relieved to know that Pluto and Uranus not being angular, I don't have to worry about them.

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Sometimes, even the soft aspects can bring difficulties, but it depends on other aspects Neptune is making to natal planets, so check for that also.

Back in late 2003 (when the depression problems started) and 2004, in the months when I had bad depressive episodes, I had angular Neptune sextile Moon in the precessed Lunar Return on the months when they occurred. Neptune, however, was also squaring natal Saturn and conjuncting Sun/Saturn midpoint on & off. Additionally, I was running sub-period of Saturn and main period of South Node (which is placed in the star of Saturn) which conjuncts Saturn/Neptune midpoint. My Moon and Saturn are quincunx.

If it's not too personal a question, do you see anything in your natal chart that you'd say predisposes you to mental health issues? Just curious ... personally I have Neptune almost exactly conjunct the sun, Asc Pisces, and the Moon as the apex of a fan-shaped cluster. I can definitely feel the extreme sensitivity and boundarylessness that comes with these aspects, and kinda think these are at the root of my own mental health issues.

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Looking at my MWA (midpoint weighting average), there are some indications from the list of my twelve strongest planetary midpoints:

1) Moon/Saturn
-square Mercury
-semisquare Uranus
2) Moon/Neptune
3) Saturn/Neptune
-conjunct South Node
5) Mercury/Uranus
6) Mars/Pluto
-conjunct Saturn

Neptune is angular in my natal chart as well, but doesn't form hard aspects nor an aspect to my Moon although it's square by sign.

Jupiter is angular also and forms a tight square to my Moon. This could indicate the bipolar as it started during first Jupiter Return. Jupiter was angular in the precessed Solar Return for that year (1996), and it was also angular in the precessed Lunar Return for the month when I was hospitalized for mania. Additionally, Jupiter is parallel Neptune.

Still such a newbie though, and so much to learn! Thanks for your help!

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No problem.

I found an interesting idea in a book by Ciro Discepolo about Solar Returns. He claims (adamantly) that if you don't like the return travel to a place on your birthday where the chart is more to your liking.
I haven't tried it yet myself but wish I had after a solar rtn two years ago with a 5 planet stellium in the 12th--- I spent the better part of that year caring for my mom after she had a stroke. Lots of hours in hospital. Not fun at all. But the Solar Moon in the 12th was conjunct my natal Jupiter and she lived.

Hi JPK,

thanks for the tip. I had come across this idea, too, but abandoned it after some thought. Being a newbie in astrology, I know just the right amount to have formed strong opinions - enough to make me think I understand it, but too little to start doubting my point of view.
So, with the conviction of ignorance, I'd say it's unlikely that spending a couple of days in a spot where my SR planets are in favourable houses would make a big difference to their expression when I still spend the rest of the year in my normal spot... I see astrology as one of many expressions of the web of life we're stuck to, and by our position in it, both in time and space, we activate/ have access to different life experiences.
Also I have no money for travel ... so that sorts it right out.

JPK said:

I found an interesting idea in a book by Ciro Discepolo about Solar Returns. He claims (adamantly) that if you don't like the return travel to a place on your birthday where the chart is more to your liking.
I haven't tried it yet myself but wish I had after a solar rtn two years ago with a 5 planet stellium in the 12th--- I spent the better part of that year caring for my mom after she had a stroke. Lots of hours in hospital. Not fun at all. But the Solar Moon in the 12th was conjunct my natal Jupiter and she lived.

Click to expand...

very interesting concept of change of fate.

one thing i would like to add is that if the time-frame of some of the onset negativity is before the birthday, and inside the solar return carries the resolution even if the hard work is required then it would probably be better to go with the more stable answer.

I know this is an older thread but thank you for posting this. I came upon this looking for effects of neptune square sun as I have been feeling really awful to the point it's scaring me. This year's return was SR neptune conjunct SR ASC, Moon in pisces plus Neptune and Chiron squaring my natal ASC, Sun & Pluto.

For extra fun, I have uranus opposite sun & square saturn, pluto opp saturn & square sun, plus pluto doing it's wrecking ball through my 4th, Saturn opp natal Mars and approaching my natal Moon & Venus. Ugggggggggggggggghhhhhhh...

OMG!!! Cannot remember when I have felt so anxious, tense, exhausted & disoriented all at the same time. Would like to crawl out of my own skin but too tired to do it!

I have gone from being very dynamic and industrious to a snails pace. I finished a renovation, several other large projects, moved and promptly collapsed. Am just doing the very minimal to get by and keep things running at home and work. Health & Finances have been extremely challenging. Work is actually going very well but i barely feel i can keep it together. It's like a mental fog I'm fighting through.

Am experiencing a lot of stress and viruses plus thrown my back out several times. My whole body has become so rigid it's crazy. Got pretty scared when psychic friend warned me strongly of possible depression coming as Saturn gets closer to my moon - felt like I was already there! In 12 years, she has never warned me of this. But I often tend to feel the effects of solar returns and transits early.

Her advice was to lay very low, ground myself w/ things like gardening and be vigilant of health, take extra minerals (B, etc.) COQ12, coral calcium as natural sedative, avoid all caffeine ( i haven't yet - w/out it I'm dragging) and to develop a type of karma yoga like tai chi, painting, gardening, something meditative w/ a physical element, Chiropractic work (if able.) My $$ has been really tight but I am using a chi machine and i think it helps. I'm sleeping a TON. Alcohol seems deadly right now. I have one drink & feel absolutely blitzed. In fact, am beginning to suspect people have been thinking I've been drinking or other when I haven't!

One saving grace has been family and my wonderful pets. All of which came to me with SR Venus in SR 6th house - 2 years in a row. Guess I needed the help. Animals are wonderful therapy and part of their gift is they take on our karma and act out our lower vibrations for us. That is why they are so healing AND, a true reflection of us! It has been a bit challenging physically and stress-wise raising a puppy (who literally just showed up at my door one day) but he is wonderful for keeping up spirits and keeping me moving - I have to! My sister's children have been a bright spot too altho' i think it's them that keep giving me these awful bugs - lol (funny, natal neptune is in my 3rd house and neptune just began transiting my 6th house.) So maybe the cure is in the disease?

Glad to hear I'm not the only one going through this. Looking at my 2013 return, looks like a lot of these aspects are very much the same. Ugh. Feels like I can't do another year of this! But it's not all bad. And I have to feel like this is a major purge/stress point that will change my life completely but if I can make it though, I can make it through anything.

Happy New Year!