Michael Jacksons Chart

This is shocking news this morning, I like R4ven read about his death first in this thread. I was not expecting this I will have to check his transits with the Liz Greene chart, but the poor children have just lost their father. I did a Thread a while ago on his career comeback and the "re-birth" of the King, before he retired but now it looks like it symbolised the end of his career, not a re-birth.



The transits I listed on the other thread still apply Saturn square Saturn, Pluto trine Pluto, Pluto still in orb trining the Sun. Transiting Chiron/Jupiter/Neptune in Aquarius are opposite his 8th/10th house ruler Mercury in Leo.
 
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lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Okay-Heres a list of the birth times of Michael Jackson-all reputedly *the correct* one:
11.53 pm
astrotheme says 10.00am
astrodatabank gives it a DD rating
12:45 pm
Skyscript suggests 11:43 pm

These are the other times for which I found charts drawn for him:
10.30pm ;1.30 am; 7 45 am and 9.00pm.
Take your pick!
Lilly
 

Koheli

Member
Michael Jackson Death and Astrology

It is interesting to note how the Jupiter/Neptune/Chiron conjunction played a role in opening an energy portal for MJ's transition.

All three were in opposition to MJ's Mercury (the ruler of his ascendant). Along with an inconjunct boost from Uranus, not to mention the 50 year Chiron Return.

It is also interesting how the Moon at the last minute touched Venus the ruler of his 12th House (the house of the veil between dimensions), right when he left this plane.

There is some interesting commentary here in this article about his death:

Michael Jackson Death and Astrology
 

starlink

Well-known member
Re: Michael Jackson Death and Astrology

Thank you Koheli for the link. I still can't believe he is dead. So young, but I think the poor guy was never really happy and maybe this is actually a relieve to him.
There was recently a thread in this forum about predicting death. Now with two examples (I am sure Farah Faucet's natal chart is also to be found and her hour of death was in the internet) it would be interesting to look at the circumstances (planet's positions).

Starlink.
 

starlink

Well-known member
Guys, here is another very interesting link which was posted by another member, Koheli, in this same Celebrity forum. [merged into this thread since it covers the same topic - Tim Wilson]
Then there is yet another discussion about MJackson and Farah Fawcett who died both on this day, posted by Tikana in Transits.
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Farrah Fawcett and Michael Jackson I was thinking of merging all these into one thread, but seeing that we now have about 3 different charts (I think), will make it messy I believe. Have a look there as well.

Starlink
 
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Nexus7

Well-known member
Is Liz Greene's chart for Jackson her rectification?

I heard Gemini rising, but that sounds a bit too pat for me.

Personally I would suspect an angular Saturn. One of my students, who is a qualified physician, told me that he beleived the cause of death might be because Jackson had had to take drugs to stop his body rejecting a skin transplant - and these affect the heart.

Even if he had not done this, the fact that he'd had so many operations to alter the colour and appearance of his skin - presumably because he was not in the first case able to accept what he was born with - speaks not of Peter-Pan Gemini fantasies, but of issues with Saturn.
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
...apparently though, he may really have had a skin conditon responsible for his paleness, though that still speaks of a strong Saturn role.

I have seen a Libra Ascendant that also puts the nodal axis right there, too. There does seem to be an element of narcissism in someone who changed his appearance to the degree he did.
 
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katydid

Well-known member
Is Liz Greene's chart for Jackson her rectification?

I heard Gemini rising, but that sounds a bit too pat for me.

Personally I would suspect an angular Saturn. One of my students, who is a qualified physician, told me that he beleived the cause of death might be because Jackson had had to take drugs to stop his body rejecting a skin transplant - and these affect the heart.

Even if he had not done this, the fact that he'd had so many operations to alter the colour and appearance of his skin - presumably because he was not in the first case able to accept what he was born with - speaks not of Peter-Pan Gemini fantasies, but of issues with Saturn.

The gemini rising chart has Saturn exactly on his 7th. That looks pretty accurate in that he never really had any relationships to speak of.
And it puts his Mars in the 12th, which works for his 'a-sexual' energy.
And the Mercury, ruler of the asc is in Leo in the 4th.

Of all the charts that I have seen in the threads, this Gemini asc one fits the best imo. :bandit:
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
I was wondering if he had an angular Saturn somehow. I would expect it to play a big role in his chart.

The Libra rising puts the SNode in his 7th too, and makes Mars the ruler too, though...but Saturn then did not appear to be angular in the Libra-rising chart I saw then.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
Hi, I've been looking at Michael's chart, and here are a couple of my findings.

Let us begin with the Sun-Pluto conjunction, which is the most 'captivating' constellation in Michael's chart, and, which had his life in its grips. With Pluto conjunct the Sun, Michael was not only a very private and determined person, a very magnetic personality, etc, but he also had a big transformation (Pluto) of his identity/his core (Sun) on his life's agenda. We all know that those cosmetic surgeries.. were, well, not just some surgeries; but through them, he tried to give him-self (Sun), not only on the outside, but also inside a complete (Pluto) revamping (Pluto). Look at the extremity and intensity (Pluto) with which he tried to transform and re-define (Pluto) him-self to the core (Sun). With each such transformation, each time, a part of him/his identity (Sun) died (Pluto) and another persona/character (Sun) was regenerated (Pluto). As things often originate in the mind; Pluto conj Merc triggered all this in his mind and made him obsessed (Plu) with such thoughts (Mer). This Pluto-Sun conjunction plus the planets in Leo, esp Venus (sense of liking, even self-liking; beauty; aesthetics) and Mercury (thinking) as well as Pluto-Merc conjunction; all made him quite narcisstic. His Virgo Sun was given to perfection, and, with Pluto so close to his Sun, he was obsessed with it. One more thing worth noting here is that, going by the 11:53 PM TOB, the Sun-Pluto conjunction falls in the 4th house of family and early childhood, and we all know that the transformation of Michael's identity (though not through cosmetic surgeries at that time) started well in childhood and at the hands of his family. One very marked point about the Sun-Pluto conjunction in MJ's life was an almost cruel/manipulative/very controlling (Pluto) father (Sun). This conjunction also gave Jackson a scandalous and shady (Pluto) image with many dark and some uncovered secrets (Pluto) about him (Sun). Finally, Lisa M. Presley said that had an immense fear (Plu) of death (Plu) and once mentioned to her that he knew that he would die young, just like Elvis Presley.

Now, look at his Uranus-Venus conjunction in Leo. His sense of beauty and aesthetics (Ven) was a bit bizarre (Uranus) and made him undertake eccentric actions (Uranus) time and again to change his looks (Venus), in his efforts to give himself a new self-expression (Leo planets). Jup in Libra, and, as per the 11:53 PM TOB, in the 5th house (of Leo) further expanded, no, put it all on the excessive mode. Nep conjunct it plus sextiling his Sun further blinded him, and, together with his Piscean Moon, helped him create a world of illusion. Briefly back to the Ura-Ven conjunction; this, of course, also explains his bizarre and short-lived relationships, perhaps emerging from sheer loneliness (an angular Sat on the Dsc; plus aspecting many of his personal planets). Sat on the Dsc explains lack of real and long-term relationships, plus his immense loneliness even within those short relationships he had.

Interviews of people, who have personally met him, report that he was quite shy, sensitive, gentle and kind. This can be attributed to his Virgo Sun (shyness and even humility to a certain extent) plus the Piscean Moon (withdrawn and shy, sensitive). He gave big donations and was seen as very generous: Leo planets, Pisces Moon, and again, going by the 11:53 PM TOB, the Nep-Jup conjunction in the 5th house (of Leo) is all quite self-explanatory, when it comes to the huge donations he gave for children suffering around the globe. As Wiki puts it: <Jackson founded the "Heal the World Foundation" in 1992. The charity organization brought underprivileged children to Jackson's ranch, to go on theme park rides that Jackson had built on the property after he purchased it.
The foundation also sent millions of dollars around the globe to help children threatened by war and disease.> This seemed his way of re-living his own childhood in a way he never had, and healing himself through 'healing the world' (and its children). Neptune in the 5th along with Jup can also be seen as the scandalous shroud (sexual abuse of children) that long covered him. Further, that N-Node conjunct the two planets in the 5th, also shows that not only performing and creativity was his direction in life, but also his attraction to children and his own self-expression (5th house) through them.

The prominent, angular and aspectful Saturn in his chart made him a person with a lot of self-complex and self-doubt. His sense of personal security (Moon) was gullible (Moon in Pisces) and seemed constantly threatened (Sat square Moon), always making him very concerned as to how he came across to others (Sat on Dsc and opp his Asc; Leo planets) and his public image (Moon in 10th and Leo planets). Chiron, which ticks a lot like Saturn, is quite elevated in the chart, and has, at least, just as many aspects to other planets (many personals) as Saturn, which caused a lot of wounding, suffering and affliction. Perhaps by giving himself a new persona, he tried to heal a part of himself and his wounds. In charts with the likes of Chiron-Mars and Chi-Ura (though this is a bit generational) aspects, I have noticed a lot of pain, deep wounding and suffering (at times also self-inflicted) involved and, with Mars involved, also on a physical level. This was also the case here. Note also that Mars, lord of his 6th, is poorly placed in his chart in the 12th and in Taurus. It's amazing how self-explanatory this Mars in Tau (sign of physical beauty and of Ven) in a square to Venus and as lord of his 6th house of sickness is. He ruined his health due to his crazy sense of 'beautifying himself'. This also caused him a lot of pain and suffering and physical wounding (Mars square Chiron) plus alienation from reality (Mars in 12th).

Aquarius on the 10th explains a phenomenal and extraordinary career with its lord, an angular Saturn (in its own term), sextiling the MC and aspecting the planets (Ven, Mer), which, in turn, aspected the MC also. With most of the aspects being squares and oppositions, tough-task master, Saturn, ruling the MC, as well as Chiron conjuncting it; the career involved a lot of struggle and also sacrifice (Sat), such as of his childhood, on his part. Whilst Gemini on the Asc made this man highly versatile and multi-talented, Leo and the 5th-house planets a showman out of him; and, both together, an entertainer, his Moon in the 10th made his career see many highs and lows. Moon (family) in the 10th (career) can also show family supporting/pushing/involved in the native's career, which was the case here. Further, with Moon ruling his 2nd house, we also see a man here, who really used his talents (2nd house) to make his career (Moon in 10th); and, in turn, to earn his dough (lord of 2nd in 10th).

It is a very interesting chart and one can go on and on, but this should do as far as the radix chart goes. Extremely sad as his passing away is; it would be interesting still to study his current transits and progs. Saturn, as lord of his radix 8th house, would explain his lonely death, which involved a lot of suffering. His lord of 8th is also transiting his 4th (end of matter) currently. With tr-Jup conjunct his MC, he was all set for his major come back professionally and publicly, which did happen, but in a rather sad way.

AQ7
 

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Awakened_Pisces

Well-known member
**Sniff.....Sniff** Beautiful, yet tragic. An excellent life lived and alot of experiences for his soul. I imagine he'll have a brilliant reincarnation
 

katydid

Well-known member
"The prominent, angular and aspectful Saturn in his chart made him a person with a lot of self-complex and self-doubt. His sense of personal security (Moon) was gullible (Moon in Pisces) and seemed constantly threatened (Sat square Moon), always making very concerned as to how he came across to others (Sat on Dsc and opp his Asc; Leo planets) and his public image (Moon in 10th and Leo planets)"
By AQ7

That Saturn on the 7th is one of the main things that makes this particular chart seem right for him. Like Nexus predicted, he would have Saturn angular somewhere.
This Saturn worked against his ability to have fulfilling relationships, as you pointed out.
The saturn ruled the 8th, and his only adult relationships were his 'employees.'

Also, Saturn conjunct desc, open enemies, the ruler of the 8th, brought a tremendous amount of litigation, where he was both plaintiff and defendant. He had ongoing multi million dollar lawsuits which dragged on for years at a time.
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
I thought the Gemini Asc was a bit pat to begin with, but the Saturn thing would create a possible fear of ageing, make the Peter-Pan side of Gemini more exaggerated.

Sun/Pluto and transformation - well, in a horrible way, he did. Transform himself. He practically became the monster in the 'thriller' he sang about whilst he was still young and good-looking.

Yes NNode rising in Libra (4 possible Ascendants I have seen mentioned for him now - Aries, Libra, Gemini, Scorpio?) could still explain another reason for his desire to willingly go under he knife: narcissism. Many people may experiment with wrinkle creams, botox, etc, but not all take it to the extremes that Jackson did - and could, because of his great fortune.

But an angular Saturn, if it squares his Moon could still go a long way to point at what might have made him emotionally damaged enough to altering his appearance, espcially wih Sun conjunct Pluto.
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
Nexus7;147361 [B said:
But an angular Saturn, if it squares his Moon could still go a long way to point at what might have made him emotionally damaged enough to altering his appearance, espcially wih Sun conjunct Pluto[/B].
I agree with the statement above, Nexus7.
For me, I cannot see narcissism in his behaviour at all. True narcissistic behaviour craves attention, and it is as though he hated all the attention, and acted strangely, even inappropriately (eg. the baby over the balcony incident in Germany) when he had too much attention.

I still think that Body Dysmorhia describes his desire to change his appearance, since it seemed to come from extreme hatred of his appearance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_dysmorphic_disorder
We all remember how good-looking he was as a teenager, and we expected him to be knockout as a man. He obviously could not see this.

Oprah Winfrey interviewed him a few years ago - not on her normal set though - and reported later that he really hated his face, and thought he was ugly, which is why he covered it. He possibly would not have sought psychiatric help because he had the money to pay for changing his appearance, and also those closest to him may not have felt comfortable saying: Michael, you need help.

I have Sun conj Pluto on my natal chart, and I can be quite obsessive about improving whatever it is I feel needs improving.
 

lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Hi Nexus,
Regarding Michael Jackson, My feeling is he wanted to be *successful* ever since he was a kid. Only *white guys* seemed to be successful (ignoring the fact that his own family were successes in their own right, but he was rejecting them, especially his father who was apparently a hard taskmaster))..I think there was a striving for perfection there, that *could* come from virgo placements or a mercury asc, *possibly*, but I would have also accepted a placement of Sat.in H5-there is some dispute as to whether the children are actually *his* biologically.
We also know he suffered facial burns in a commercial accident for pepsi some years ago.Devastating for a performer.
The way he moves on stage definitely suggests a strong Scorpio influence although sun cj pluto could create the same influence...think of the names of songs/albums- *bad* *dangerous* etc.... plutonic ideas.

The apparent duality of his Nature *is* suggested by Gem. Asc. We know Mercury can wear many masks.But then so too can Scorpio asc. and if the ruler of the asc. is in conflicting aspect with the luminaries, a dual persona could be the result there too.
Had we just played *guess MJ's asc* I might have said Virgo as my first choice. The man was a hypochondriac and also germ phobic. Libra also in H1 might explain his choice of fabrics...soft velvets/silks...sensual fabrics, matched with leather or vinyl or contrasting textures and appearances.He was very *costume-oriented*, choosing white suits etc for his court cases.

His eleventh house of friends would have to have activity-he had friends in very high places.And friends who betrayed him badly, as well.
No matter how he *looked*, MJ was never satisfied..this does indicate debility of either H1 or H2 ruler.His addiction to some drugs may also have been part of his reason for undergoing surgeries-it gave him legitimate access.
I do hope we will eventually be given a chart we can be sure is the right one.
Cheers
Lillyjgc
 

starlink

Well-known member
thought the Gemini Asc was a bit pat to begin with, but the Saturn thing would create a possible fear of ageing, make the Peter-Pan side of Gemini more exaggerated.
This Ascendant does give great agility and as we know he was an amazing dancer. It also rules his 5th house and the ruler in the performing Leo sign.
Placement in the 4th shows also that his acts began in a family group.
 

katydid

Well-known member
This Ascendant does give great agility and as we know he was an amazing dancer. It also rules his 5th house and the ruler in the performing Leo sign.
Placement in the 4th shows also that his acts began in a family group.

I agree. The only other ascendant which could make sense is the Virgo asc.
BUT that would put his Pisces Moon in the 7th. That does not ring true for me.
Saturn in the 7th describes his relationships better than Moon in Pisces.

The Gemini Asc puts the Moon in Pisces at the top of the chart, which seems more fitting. HE WAS LITERALLY EMBRACED BY THE WHOLE WORLD. And" we are the world' fits this placement as well.

And the thing that really speaks to me with this ascendant, is his Mars being in the 12th. If anyone ever had a 12th house Mars, he did. :wink:
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
The Moon at the top of the chart. Yes, he was loved by the whole world, but the square to Saturn was here to indicate the seeds of later vilification, too. I do think his fame was as much a curse as a blessing, too. He would not have had a huge sense of reality, with a Pisces Moon.

He just seems to have been too naive somehow, to have had a Scorpio rising: anything Scorpionic in his chart could have been covered quite nicely by the Sun conjunct Pluto, I should think.

He lived in a world of his own to some degree, and his hangers-on would have colluded with that. For that reason, both the Gemini rising opposed by Saturn and Libra conjunct NNode could both make a whole lot more sense of his life there. Possibly the reverse side of narcissism is always something like a diamorphic body image of some kind, but theend result is still an obession with appearance.

But a 20th House Moon does make more sense too.

Unfortunately, his data may well continue to remain at the 'dirty' status, and we will all just have to keep on guessing....
 
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