lone wolf syndrome

Gorgina

Well-known member
* elevated Saturn in the chart (by sign or by house disposition)
* Saturn as ruler of 5th or 7th
* Saturn elevated + aspecting Moon by trine/sextile
* Jupiter in Capricorn and/or in the 12th
* Mercury in Sagittarius and Venus in Capricorn or Aquarius
* Grand Trine in water signs


I'm one of the "lone wolf" people. I got:

- Saturn is most elevated planet in the chart
- Saturn is in 11th
- Saturn rules 7th.
- Saturn trines Moon/Jupiter conjunction in 4th.

- Jupiter in Virgo in detriment conjunct ASC ruler Moon and IC in 4th.
- Mercury is retrograde and intercepted in 12th house, sextile Saturn and square Pluto.
- 8 planets bellow horizon.
- all planets but Saturn either in water signs or in water houses.
- Chiron in 11th
- Saturn/Pluto midpoint is rising tightly conjunct ASC/Sun/Venus/Mars conjunction in 1st house, which Saturn and Pluto both aspect by quintile.
- Venus + Mars both out-of-bounds and combust.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
My lonely wolf is 12h Moon.
Saturn is very active in his 5th house, Virgo rising and let's not forget the squares my Moon has with Pluto and Venus.
So yeah... I like being lonely, dislike 'too much' social interaction, going out and so on.
I prefer being in my own world, reading, contemplating, analyzing myself [mostly] or others. :)

As Chiron is ruler of your chart with Virgo rising, where is it situated??
You like being alone I think is what you mean. No one likes to be lonely, that can even kill you. There is a difference.
 

heidy26

Well-known member
As Chiron is ruler of your chart with Virgo rising, where is it situated??
You like being alone I think is what you mean. No one likes to be lonely, that can even kill you. There is a difference.

Sorry, you are right. 'Alone' is the term, indeed, typo.
Chiron is in Cancer, in my 11th house, conjuncting Jupiter, sextiling AC.
But I wouldn't go as far as saying Chiron rules Virgo, I do not agree with this vision as Chiron does not fit with the Virgoan traits.
 
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I am a lone wolf. I have my ruler of 1st house in 11th, bad aspects with my Sun and Mercury.

Well, I have Aquarius rising sign, Saturn/Uranus 11th house. Both bad aspected with Sun and Mercury.

My moon is in 4th house.

And I have Mars in Pisces, 1st house, trine with Pluto in Scorpio, 9th.

I'm a lone wolf. I like to be alone but.... as I had read some time ago on internet... something like: It's nice to have a person to say it's good to be alone.
 

NRodin

Well-known member
hmm... that's kind of an interesting question, though I think there are a lot of different reasons for why someone could fit the Lone Wolf mold. I would say any deep water placements accentuated in the chart could create this person, but also looking at Numerology could help shed some light too; I am a LP7 and i am the definition of a lone wolf. I also have my north node in Cap in my 8th house, and I am a Gem Asc, so i always look distant due to my attention being preoccupied. Also having Sag on my Descendant makes me look a bit self absorbed and ambitous I think, which can contribute to looking like a loner as well. Saturn in Aquarius midheaven, equals I look like I don't give a **** about anything lol, and I must take my own path regardless of difficulty.

Overall though, I think anyone can fit this mold depending on how their chart is activated, with the exception of some truly extroverted, interpersonal charts. I think taking into account the environment aside from the chart is important too, since certain chart aspects become focal upon having certain experiences.
 

NRodin

Well-known member
I am a lone wolf. I have my ruler of 1st house in 11th, bad aspects with my Sun and Mercury.

Well, I have Aquarius rising sign, Saturn/Uranus 11th house. Both bad aspected with Sun and Mercury.

My moon is in 4th house.

And I have Mars in Pisces, 1st house, trine with Pluto in Scorpio, 9th.

I'm a lone wolf. I like to be alone but.... as I had read some time ago on internet... something like: It's nice to have a person to say it's good to be alone.

interesting, my first house ruler is also in my 11th house, and i have Mars in Pisces too, and I love being alone.
 

craft94

Well-known member
It depends on what you mean by "lone wolf". I can see every sign being classified as a lone wolf, but all for different reasons.

As stated, Aquarians are very outgoing and friendly but they're also more detached. Generally speaking, I'm the opposite. I want close relationships, but due to a lack of trust, I don't have many relationships at all.

Air signs are social but not emotional. Water signs are emotional but not social. Fire signs tend to be more outgoing but they're definitely independent and sometimes a bit selfish. Earth signs are less social - they care more about material things - but they value status and order, and believe it or not, I find earth signs tend to care more about fitting in than air/water/fire signs do (this is subjective, of course). So who is the real lone wolf in this situation?

I've noticed there are different types of introverts:

1. Some people are outgoing but also shy and quiet. They're well-integrated in society, and they always seem to be busy with social activities but regardless of how many friends they have, they never seem to talk. This could be due to a desire to fit in and not say anything that will rock the boat, or it may just be due to a natural quietness. I don't know if this has anything to do with zodiac signs per se, but I can possibly see Capricorn fitting into this category. I think these are the types of people who care about reputation and social standing but they don't necessarily value communication or relationships for the sake of relationships. Aside from how quiet/loud someone is, however, sometimes I find that the people who socialize the most end up being the most private as well. Like, they're so exhausted from all the socializing that they end up becoming annoyed and antisocial.

2. Others, such as myself, are the exact opposite. We're open and talkative, loud and opinionated, but we're also very private, maybe even reclusive. We tend to do our own thing and we need our space. This is where I can see Sag's fitting into the "lone wolf" category. Personally, I feel like... I'm talkative around those I feel comfortable with, but it takes a long time for me to get to that space.

There's also the issue of whether or not someone is a loner by choice. I am very much a loner, but it isn't necessarily what I'd like to be. With moon in the 12th house, seclusion is what comes most naturally to me, but it isn't necessarily what I'd like. My moon is opposite jupiter and I've read that this aspect can cause someone to go out into the public and "travel" for short periods of time, only to head back into the domestic sphere for short periods of time. I don't know how true this is but it is definitely how I am.

I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE groups. I tend to feel insecure and lonely. But I love individuals. I like partnerships, not necessarily romantic, but I love connecting with people on a one-to-one level. You can't really get to know someone by being in a group, in my opinion. It's not real communication. Honestly, I feel like some people hide behind groups to overcompensate for their own lack of personality, or worse, to hide the fact that they don't have any mind of their own. I need to be around people because I need to speak my mind, and I also like to know what's on other people's minds, but if I spent every single minute of my life around others, I would never be able to get in touch with how I really think or feel. Balance is key, but some people are the opposite. Some people love groups, but hate communicating with people one-on-one.

I'm a Libra so I do get lonely often. It's very important for me to have someone I can relate to... but to be fair, I think that's everyone to some extent. Love, to me, or at least real human connection, is more important to me than anything else, and it's probably more important for me than it is for others, but I also find that those who say they "hate love" and want to be by themselves and don't care about other people, ironically have an easier time fitting in and making friends. I think they take it for granted. I don't think they'd feel the same way if they were ostracized. SOOO...I think we all want what we can't have.

My Sun and Mercury conjunction is square Uranus in Capricorn, and I think this is a definite lone wolf aspect, but not necessarily by choice... that's the thing. Remember how I said that some people are outgoing but also shy and quiet? I tend to find that speaking my mind actually drives others away and likewise, I seem to get agitated by others a lot and I distance myself as a result. I hate group think and I hate dishonesty. It always seems like I disagree with everyone else and this isn't the result of deliberate contrarian-ism either. Maybe it's the result of asking too many questions because I don't even agree with myself half the time, I'm an indecisive Libra. Also, Mercury (my chart ruler) is in retrograde which seems to cause a lot of misunderstandings. There is some choice involved though. Like I said, I do get lonely often and I hate it, I hate it so much, but honestly, and I know this might sound like a pretentious thing to say in some people's eyes, but I'd rather be alone than pretend to be something I'm not or try to fit in. That would actually make me lonely because I'm not getting what I need out of relationships which is honest communication. So, what's the point? I also need freedom, especially freedom of thought and freedom of speech, but I need loyalty also. I need people in my life who will let me by myself and never leave me. Maybe I'm too much of an idealist. I'm not sure these types of people actually exist so it's either one or the other - lies or isolation.

I'm not at all Saturnian, which makes sense because I don't think I'm a loner in the same way that Saturnians are but I do have a Scorpio stellium in the 6th house, which includes a retrograde Venus, Pluto, and the ruler of my 7th.
 
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AppLeo

Well-known member
This is a really cool thread :biggrin:

I guess I'll give my opinions or thoughts even though this thread is practically dead.

For as long as I remember, I've always been kind of an outsider or loner. Someone on the side who just observes everything from a distance while focusing on my own matters.

I'm not necessarily anti-social and I really do enjoy good company and conversation, but I'm very picky with who I spend my time with and how much energy I'm going to give, therefore, I need to be with people I feel a true connection to, so that I can be sociable. I have Sun in the Leo in the 7th so I need to get out that extroverted energy. But very rarely do I find people that I want to talk to, which is why I have this lone wolf syndrome I guess :biggrin:

I have aspects in my chart that can indicate why.

-Capricorn Rising
-Saturn in the 3rd house
-Moon and mercury in the 8th house
-Saturn trine Moon and Mercury
-Scorpio MC
-Pluto in the 11th House
 

magnolia8

Well-known member
Lone wolf here :D Ever since childhood. My only real friendships ended mostly during that period, spent my entire adolescence and early 20s isolated, and I've only had short acquaintanceships in the last few years. One thing I realized several years ago is that I have deep-seated fear of being "revealed," and tend to think that the mere possibility of being SEEN means I'm exposed and vulnerable. Needless to say, I'm a homebody.:biggrin: I'm also socially awkward. However, I'm extremely independent and even selfish, as I do NOT care to deplete my energy/emotional reserves on others. I require very little external validation; I like being able to sustain myself, BY myself. The only point I can see for friendships is to have others in my corner in times of need.

I have:
Virgo rising (I think Mercury gives me too much nervous energy, which makes me self-conscious)
Saturn in the 4th, conjunct the IC, ruling the 5th
All but one personal planet, including chart ruler, in the 11th
Not sure whether truly fire dominant, but most of my planets are in fire. I am a Leo.
Moon sextile Uranus
Chiron in the 10th (I think this can make one feel socially awkward or just not fit in)
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
Lone wolf here :D Ever since childhood. My only real friendships ended mostly during that period, spent my entire adolescence and early 20s isolated, and I've only had short acquaintanceships in the last few years. One thing I realized several years ago is that I have deep-seated fear of being "revealed," and tend to think that the mere possibility of being SEEN means I'm exposed and vulnerable. Needless to say, I'm a homebody.:biggrin: I'm also socially awkward. However, I'm extremely independent and even selfish, as I do NOT care to deplete my energy/emotional reserves on others. I require very little external validation; I like being able to sustain myself, BY myself. The only point I can see for friendships is to have others in my corner in times of need.

I have:
Virgo rising (I think Mercury gives me too much nervous energy, which makes me self-conscious)
Saturn in the 4th, conjunct the IC, ruling the 5th
All but one personal planet, including chart ruler, in the 11th
Not sure whether truly fire dominant, but most of my planets are in fire. I am a Leo.
Moon sextile Uranus
Chiron in the 10th (I think this can make one feel socially awkward or just not fit in)

I have chiron in the 10th too.
 

craft94

Well-known member
This is a really cool thread :biggrin:

I guess I'll give my opinions or thoughts even though this thread is practically dead.

For as long as I remember, I've always been kind of an outsider or loner. Someone on the side who just observes everything from a distance while focusing on my own matters.

I'm not necessarily anti-social and I really do enjoy good company and conversation, but I'm very picky with who I spend my time with and how much energy I'm going to give, therefore, I need to be with people I feel a true connection to, so that I can be sociable. I have Sun in the Leo in the 7th so I need to get out that extroverted energy. But very rarely do I find people that I want to talk to, which is why I have this lone wolf syndrome I guess :biggrin:

I have aspects in my chart that can indicate why.

-Capricorn Rising
-Saturn in the 3rd house
-Moon and mercury in the 8th house
-Saturn trine Moon and Mercury
-Scorpio MC
-Pluto in the 11th House

Well, Leo itself is the sign of individuality and the 7th house is more about intimate relationships (people you have a true connection to) than larger social networks (11th house)
 

craft94

Well-known member
It's interesting that everyone should mention Saturn. I'm NOT a Saturnian person at all and ironically, I believe this IS what makes me a "lone wolf." I see how a hard Mercury-Saturn (or a Venus-Saturn) aspect would make one inhibited or socially awkward but Saturn rules the 10th and 11th houses. To me, these are the most public houses. The 10th house symbolizes your professional life, your SOCIAL status, your public image, and the 11th house is THE HOUSE OF FRIENDS!
I see Saturn as having a better awareness of social rules and what it takes to succeed socially than any other planet
 
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magnolia8

Well-known member
It's interesting that everyone should mention Saturn. I'm NOT a Saturnian person at all and ironically, I believe this IS what makes me a "lone wolf." I see how a hard Mercury-Saturn (or a Venus-Saturn) aspect would make one inhibited or socially awkward but Saturn rules the 10th and 11th houses. To me, these are the most public houses. The 10th house symbolizes your professional life, your SOCIAL status, your public image, and the 11th house is THE HOUSE OF FRIENDS!
I see Saturn as having a better awareness of social rules and what it takes to succeed socially than any other planet

Saturn can make you hyperaware of social rules, but that doesn't mean you're able or willing to abide by them with ease.
Saturn is rigid. If it's retrograde (as in my case), then the limitations, restrictions, delays and other synonyms for blockages, get turned inward. You can become very critical of your social self, including your accomplishments and appearance. People may find you intimidating or sober so that they don't feel at ease around you. Alternatively, you may be willing to break social rules if you realize you won't be hindered, or if you lack confidence. I think it's more of a stereotypically Venusian/Libran type that understands and plays by the social rules. They can be ruthless at that (I know, because I've come to realize in the last year that I'm able to do this - very much to my surprise - though infrequently).

edit: Also, LoL, sometimes I think Saturn is the typical misanthropist. Anyway, other Saturnians may have different experiences; as always, I think it depends on how Saturn is placed in the chart.
 
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craft94

Well-known member
Saturn can make you hyperaware of social rules, but that doesn't mean you're able or willing to abide by them with ease.
Saturn is rigid. If it's retrograde (as in my case), then the limitations, restrictions, delays and other synonyms for blockages, get turned inward. You can become very critical of your social self, including your accomplishments and appearance. People may find you intimidating or sober so that they don't feel at ease around you. Alternatively, you may be willing to break social rules if you realize you won't be hindered, or if you lack confidence. I think it's more of a stereotypically Venusian/Libran type (maybe even Leo) that understands and plays by the social rules. They can be ruthless at that (I know, because I've come to realize in the last year that I'm able to do this - very much to my surprise - it's not frequent, though).

edit: Also, LoL, sometimes I think Saturn is the typical misanthropist. Anyway, other Saturnians may have different experiences; as always, I think it depends on how Saturn is placed in the chart.

As a Libra, I'll admit I don't know where most of these stereotypes come from because most of the traits attributed to us, are the very traits that cause me to have difficulty with Capricorns! (Though in some ways, you could argue that these signs aren't really that different when you think about it)

Libra has a strong awareness of other people (a sense of justice) and Saturn is actually exalted in Libra, which makes a lot of sense (I'd say Saturn is more justice-orientated than Venus is - justice isn't always pleasant). However, Venus isn't really about social rules in the same sense Saturn is. The way I see it, Saturn is the rule follower (or the rule maker?) and Uranus is the rule breaker (not talking strictly about people here!). Venus isn't really about rules at all. Venus itself is neither rebellious or rigid. Venus is about relationships, love, romance, beauty. Your ability to seduce and your ability to climb up the social ladder are two very different things.

Like, I've been called socially awkward. I've never been popular and I've always had a hard time making friends. But not a hard time keeping them. It isn't hard for me to relate to people. I don't see myself as having bad interpersonal skills at all, just bad social-climbing skills, and tbh, I can't say I put much effort into cultivating these skills! I like to talk and I like to socialize, but only if we're actually talking. I don't have bad conversation skills, but let's say I'm at a party, I'm going to keep to myself (possibly get depressed!) and wait for someone to talk to me. I get lost and confused in crowds. I find that amongst groups, people are much less honest, they're always trying desperately to fit in, and as a result, no real communication (Mercury) or intimacy (Venus) takes place. I don't mind talking about nothing for the sake of talking so long as it's honest nothing but don't forget, the element of air is about IDEAS and we live in a world where it's much more socially acceptable to talk about the weather and if that's all you can talk about, I'd rather talk to my journal

Saturn can be misanthropic and antisocial but it can also be hierarchal. Venus isn't either one of these things.

Venus is much warmer, more empathetic, than Saturn is. Saturn is colder, more detached, but often, that's what life, the game of social climbing, requires. In middle school, for example, kids will often their social dominance by bullying others (I wouldn't necessarily say this is Saturnian but it definitely isn't Venusian), and others would join in, so as to not get bullied themselves. Vulnerability, or empathy, or the expression of feeling - these things can be seen as weaknesses, thereby ruining your chances at social success. Sometimes, this changes as you get older but sometimes, sadly, it doesn't.

Earth signs and Saturnians are often quiet, more introverted, but in my experience (not saying this is always the case), this quietness often stems from a fear of saying anything out of the norm and not fitting in, or as you said, self-judgement. Gemini is more social, more conversational than say, Capricorn, Taurus or Scorpio, but if you like to talk, the odds are you'll say things that get you ostracized. Gemini has good people skills but (as a sign) it doesn't lack confidence and therefore doesn't worry so much about "fitting in" or people think it's crazy. In my EXPERIENCE, Gemini is more "social" but Capricorn is more "normal" (by my own definitions). The same can be said of Leo: not everyone appreciates seeing confidence in others and if you're confident, you're not going to worry much about being appreciated by others!

Tbh you wouldn't constantly hear and read about how many people hate Libra and Gemini if they were really as popular and well-liked as everyone says.

. Out of all the elements, I feel earth signs understand me the least and I, them (despite having an earth moon!). I find that they're often critical, rigid, misanthropic and judgmental of anything outside the established conventions and social norms. Of course this isn't always the case. Just my experience with certain people (usually lacking in air/mutable influence)

I'm not saying that Saturn isn't a lone wolf. I can totally see how it is. I'm just not sure what this "lone wolf syndrome" actually means. I don't think there's any one planet or aspect or whatever that indicates this because it can mean many different things depending on your outlook, and sometimes this conflicts with the steretoypes.

The 7th house is about interpersonal relationships, contracts, partnerships. The 10th house is about social status, your public persona. The 11th house is about community, friendship. All of this is simplified but I think it's important to distinguish between these areas of life. Someone may be skilled in 10th house matters but not 7th house matters and vice versa.
(On another note, the 2nd house, also ruled by Venus, is about material possessions)
A lot of this is just subjective opinion but hopefully I'm making at least a little bit of a sense?
 
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craft94

Well-known member
One thing I realized several years ago is that I have deep-seated fear of being "revealed," and tend to think that the mere possibility of being SEEN means I'm exposed and vulnerable.

I VERY much relate to this (not so much the second part of what you said). I blame my Scorpio stellium in the 6th house especially since retrograde Venus is located there.

It's funny. My Sun and Ascendant are both social signs but their rulers are both in retrograde/afflicted in some way!
 

craft94

Well-known member
Saturn can make you hyperaware of social rules, but that doesn't mean you're able or willing to abide by them with ease.
Saturn is rigid. If it's retrograde (as in my case), then the limitations, restrictions, delays and other synonyms for blockages, get turned inward. You can become very critical of your social self, including your accomplishments and appearance. People may find you intimidating or sober so that they don't feel at ease around you. Alternatively, you may be willing to break social rules if you realize you won't be hindered, or if you lack confidence. I think it's more of a stereotypically Venusian/Libran type that understands and plays by the social rules. They can be ruthless at that (I know, because I've come to realize in the last year that I'm able to do this - very much to my surprise - though infrequently).

edit: Also, LoL, sometimes I think Saturn is the typical misanthropist. Anyway, other Saturnians may have different experiences; as always, I think it depends on how Saturn is placed in the chart.

I don't know how my original comment disappeared. Maybe I accidentally deleted it, when trying to edit it? I can't imagine it actually being deleted by someone else.
[Moderator note: your post indicated you deleted it so I restored it since you clearly didn't want it deleted]

But I'll give you a shortened version:

What you're saying about Libra makes sense. Saturn is actually exalted in Libra. In my opinion (you may not agree), it has just as, or at least almost as much, influence on the sign as Venus does. Like, I don't see a direct connection between the legal system (represented by the scales) and the goddess of love. The way I see it, Saturn is about rules...as you said, Saturn is very rigid. Uranus is about breaking those rules. Venus itself has nothing to do with rules. Venus represents love, sexuality, beauty, and the feminine. The planet itself is neither a rebel nor a conformist, but could be either (or neither?) depending on the placement, the person's choices, and the social/cultural norms of the time.

It's not that I can't see Saturn as being a lone wolf. I can totally see it. Saturn can be very cold, ruthless, and like you said, misanthropic. I am not misanthropic at all, but I find it impossible to fit into rigid social structures, and I would consider myself as a "lone wolf" as a result of this. I'm not a misanthrope, but a misfit.

Back to the whole Venus Vs. Saturn issue, the 7th house is about partnerships, one-on-one, the balance between self and other. The 11th house is broader. The 11th house is more about the group, the community, your wider social network. The 10th house is about social status, your public image. These things are different. Someone may excel at 7th house matters but fail at 10th and 11th house matters and vice versa.

Mainly, what I'm trying to say is that there are different types of "lone wolfs." It isn't decided by one aspect or planet that determines it, and it's interesting to me how people with such opposite charts can both be lone wolfs - but for different reasons, and different motivations.
 
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