Entire Chart is Water/Earth Kite

H

HumptyDumpty69

Member
I am a Scorpio Sun/Pisces Moon, I'm going through an extremely difficult time right now in regards to my health; honestly, my world has been turned upside down and may not be rectifiable. It is the beginning of my Saturn Return, but it does not go direct until December 2018. I have Cap Saturn as well.

I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on the fact that my whole chart is a kite, also, what does it mean that my JupiterR in Cancer, in the 7th House is the apex of my kite? I have 3 grand water trines, and they are all Air trines within the house placement. Also, If I'm not mistaken, I have 4 stelliums (or at least 3 and 1 triple conjunction), both in the signs and corresponding house stelliums of Cap and Scorp placement, does this factor in to the Kite as well? It makes my Jupiter apex seem even more important to me, but I don't know its answer. I have both Scorp's rulers in Scorp, and I have Cap ruler in Cap, this has to mean something?


Oh, and if you want to talk asteroids, I have 3 more grand trines coming from Chiron, which is not so tightly conjunct my Apex JupiterR in Cancer. And if you look at my CeresR, I have a little bit tighter conjunction to JuipterR, and yet another grand trine. I don't really put that much weight in to asteroids though, maybe you do. Maybe these have weight considering they double the amount of grand trines, and they are touching all of the same things as the rest of the chart, and they are in the same houses as well, and conjunct the Apex of my chart; I never really thought about it.

I have a separate question, I get different results based off of different sites. Some sites say that my Mars is in the 10th house, some say the eleventh. Some say that my mars is a grand trine with Jupiter and Moon, some say it is only trine Jupiter. This is the only aspect of my chart that changes. Why is that? What is the right answer? So I potentially have either 3 or 4 grand trines.

I appreciate any insight. Feel free to comment on anything that I did not mention, I would love any and all input/information.

Thank you for reading,

HumptyDumpty
 

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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
HumptyDumpty69 said:
I am a Scorpio Sun/Pisces Moon, I'm going through an extremely difficult time right now in regards to my health; honestly, my world has been turned upside down and may not be rectifiable. It is the beginning of my Saturn Return, but it does not go direct until December 2018. I have Cap Saturn as well.

I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on the fact that my whole chart is a kite, also, what does it mean that my JupiterR in Cancer, in the 7th House is the apex of my kite? I have 3 grand water trines, and they are all Air trines within the house placement. Also, If I'm not mistaken, I have 4 stelliums (or at least 3 and 1 triple conjunction), both in the signs and corresponding house stelliums of Cap and Scorp placement, does this factor in to the Kite as well? It makes my Jupiter apex seem even more important to me, but I don't know its answer. I have both Scorp's rulers in Scorp, and I have Cap ruler in Cap, this has to mean something?


Oh, and if you want to talk asteroids, I have 3 more grand trines coming from Chiron, which is not so tightly conjunct my Apex JupiterR in Cancer. And if you look at my CeresR, I have a little bit tighter conjunction to JuipterR, and yet another grand trine. I don't really put that much weight in to asteroids though, maybe you do. Maybe these have weight considering they double the amount of grand trines, and they are touching all of the same things as the rest of the chart, and they are in the same houses as well, and conjunct the Apex of my chart; I never really thought about it.

I have a separate question, I get different results based off of different sites. Some sites say that my Mars is in the 10th house, some say the eleventh. Some say that my mars is a grand trine with Jupiter and Moon, some say it is only trine Jupiter. This is the only aspect of my chart that changes. Why is that? What is the right answer? So I potentially have either 3 or 4 grand trines.

I appreciate any insight. Feel free to comment on anything that I did not mention, I would love any and all input/information.

Thank you for reading,

HumptyDumpty
Click to expand...
Fact is there are multiple astrological methodologies
and astrologers frequently disagree :smile:
so begin by researching the various opinions
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member


House location of a natal planet can change
dependent on the house system chosen :smile:

easily verify that fact at astro.com's Extended Chart Selection Page
there, fourteen of the more popular house systems currently in use are available options
Placidus is simply the default

to view for yourself how that works in practice
create your natal chart using Whole Sign Houses option
then compare with the same natal chart using the Placidus option

Whole Sign House ascendant sign becomes the whole first house
and the other houses follow.

The ASCENDANT POINT ITSELF can then fall anywhere in the first house
and
MIDHEAVEN POINT anywhere in the upper half of the chart

There are at least twenty or thirty different house systems
or means of dividing the so-called "birthchart" into twelve segments of life activity.
In astrology, houses, mansions, or domains
represent general areas of life activity
and are the grounding areas or arenas of expression for planets.
Originally, the words "houses" and "signs" were interchangeable.
A planet in the SIGN of Aries
was also a planet in the HOUSE of Aries
so that in effect houses as we know them today did not exist

Artificial divisions now known as houses
were attempts by early Greeks and Hindus to measure strength "points" in the horoscope
which during 7th and 8th centuries AD were construed
or confused
as means of dividing the birth chart.
The ascendant and midheaven degrees and their opposites were definite power points
or areas of intense focus
but not necessarily the beginnings of a house or quadrant

The Whole Sign House system was used by the ancient Greeks and the Hindus (who still use it today).
It is the oldest and simplest house system in existence
and immediately eliminates the awful mess astrologers have made on the issue over the last 1300 years or so


WHOLE SIGNS http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42163
WHOLE SIGN OR PLACIDUS http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39669

 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
HumptyDumpty69 said:
I appreciate your comment.
Thanks for answering the latter part of my question.

Do you have any thoughts on the bulk of my post?
The aspects of my chart?
Click to expand...
Before commenting on any natal chart
it is important to establish the reliability of the official time of birth :smile:
unsurprisingly, few if any charts are timed to the moment of the first breath
and so
it is important to establish whether the natal chart you posted
is from medical records
or from memory of family members

the fact is
that the ascendant degree changes every FOUR MINUTES
and if the birth is "timed out" by even four minutes
then an error of one year is incurred when using "degree for a year predictive methodologies"
and
most births are at least fifteen or twenty minutes if not more
"rounded up or rounded down"

 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
HumptyDumpty69 said:
Oh, and if you want to talk asteroids

I have 3 more grand trines coming from Chiron

which is not so tightly conjunct my Apex JupiterR in Cancer.

And if you look at my CeresR

I have a little bit tighter conjunction to JuipterR, and yet another grand trine.

I don't really put that much weight in to asteroids though
maybe you do.
Maybe these have weight considering they double the amount of grand trines
and they are touching all of the same things as the rest of the chart
and they are in the same houses as well
and conjunct the Apex of my chart; I never really thought about it.
Click to expand...

Clarification since you are new here:
members discuss planetary aspect meanings
within any and all contexts
including that of one thousand five hundred asteroids
or a mere 700 asteroids
if that is ones preference

for example:
Zarathu said:
I use the following asteroids for love and relationship:
Click to expand...
Zarathu said:
Erato, Amor, Bienor, Bosque Alegre, Compassion, Amanda,
Frigga, Klyria, Medea, Rousseau, Summa, Valentine, Anteros, Hathor, Jason, Moraes, Peirithoos,
Pocahintas, Sidi, Ubasti, Sappho, Amicitia, Patroclus, Cupido, Medusa,
Hephaistos, Demeter, Hera, Thereus, Valentine, Nessus,
Ariadne,
Chariklo, Close, Rhoda, Damocles

Does anyone use others not here, and what do they mean?

Zarathu

its a small number. I regularly use 700 of them
Click to expand...

Clearly then, our forum allows discussion on a varied spectrum
of astrological shades of opinion
and so
I merely mention my humble astrological opinion
which is that asteroids are irrelevant :smile:
https://www.universetoday.com/97571/how-many-asteroids-are-out-there/
 
H

HumptyDumpty69

Member
Haha, thanks for the asteroid advice.

I am confident in my birth time, it is on my birth certificate, as well as from word of mouth of my parent.

But in regards to medicine and doctor's account of birth, my father is adamant toward the fact that they wronged my brother's birth certificate by 1-2 minutes because of hospital politics. So I don't know how much the hospital can definitively be trusted in this regard.

I was the first born though, and my father is scrupulous, and my medical records line up with his account, so please feel confident in your commenting on my chart.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
HumptyDumpty69 said:
Haha, thanks for the asteroid advice.

I am confident in my birth time, it is on my birth certificate, as well as from word of mouth of my parent.

But in regards to medicine and doctor's account of birth, my father is adamant toward the fact that they wronged my brother's birth certificate by 1-2 minutes because of hospital politics. So I don't know how much the hospital can definitively be trusted in this regard.

I was the first born though, and my father is scrupulous, and my medical records line up with his account, so please feel confident in your commenting on my chart.
Click to expand...
So your time of birth is reasonably accurate
but that does not mean it is not out by a few minutes
due to human error
such as clock running slow or fast :smile:
a thread discussion on the topic of rectification
may be of interest to you
as it consists of an example rectification posted within the past few days
at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116601
and is likely to answer a few questions on the topic for you
 
H

HumptyDumpty69

Member
So are you politely telling me that you, and no one else on this site will comment on my questions because they are skeptical as to the accuracy of my birth time?

I'll check out the link you provided; but could we just look at the major bodies and assume the houses are accurate?

You gotta' give me something if you're this knowledgable, especially if you're the only one commenting.
 
K

katydid

Well-known member
HumptyDumpty69 said:
I am a Scorpio Sun/Pisces Moon, I'm going through an extremely difficult time right now in regards to my health; honestly, my world has been turned upside down and may not be rectifiable. It is the beginning of my Saturn Return, but it does not go direct until December 2018. I have Cap Saturn as well.

I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on the fact that my whole chart is a kite, also, what does it mean that my JupiterR in Cancer, in the 7th House is the apex of my kite? I have 3 grand water trines, and they are all Air trines within the house placement. Also, If I'm not mistaken, I have 4 stelliums (or at least 3 and 1 triple conjunction), both in the signs and corresponding house stelliums of Cap and Scorp placement, does this factor in to the Kite as well? It makes my Jupiter apex seem even more important to me, but I don't know its answer. I have both Scorp's rulers in Scorp, and I have Cap ruler in Cap, this has to mean something?


Oh, and if you want to talk asteroids, I have 3 more grand trines coming from Chiron, which is not so tightly conjunct my Apex JupiterR in Cancer. And if you look at my CeresR, I have a little bit tighter conjunction to JuipterR, and yet another grand trine. I don't really put that much weight in to asteroids though, maybe you do. Maybe these have weight considering they double the amount of grand trines, and they are touching all of the same things as the rest of the chart, and they are in the same houses as well, and conjunct the Apex of my chart; I never really thought about it.

I have a separate question, I get different results based off of different sites. Some sites say that my Mars is in the 10th house, some say the eleventh. Some say that my mars is a grand trine with Jupiter and Moon, some say it is only trine Jupiter. This is the only aspect of my chart that changes. Why is that? What is the right answer? So I potentially have either 3 or 4 grand trines.

I appreciate any insight. Feel free to comment on anything that I did not mention, I would love any and all input/information.

Thank you for reading,

HumptyDumpty
Click to expand...

Hey Humpty,

It is good that you are beginning to seriously study your natal chart. Having a KITE is pretty powerful energy and it is a configuration that wants to RISE ABOVE the earthly difficulties and break free from pain, restrictions and restraints. You can do it if you keep investigating and progressing.

One symptom of that prominent Jupiter in the 7th in cancer, is 'hype' and exaggeration and things blown out of proportion. [weight, facts, emotions]

So one example might be that you think you have 3 or 4 Grand Trines and 3 or 4 stelliums. I am just ribbing you , good heartedly, as I know you are just learning.

But you definitely exaggerated the facts. lol

In reality, you have ONE Grand Trine, with multiple planets at the Scorpio point of the trine.

And stelliums can only be made up of planets, not asteroids or angles. So you have a Scorpio stellium and a Capricorn stellium. Both very powerful and intense and nice energy.

The apex of the Kite is actually the Saturn, not the Jupiter. Jupiter is part of the Water Grand Trine. It opposes Saturn, which is what makes it a KITE formation.

So this Saturn Return year is where you buckle down, make great effort physically, to rise above your difficulties.

Saturn in Cap is often bones, teeth and skin afflictions. It may mean that you have to deal with some painful procedures to make the necessary changes?

But the Saturn opposes Jupiter in Cancer. So the affliction may be some kind of overload, overabundance, overwhelming influence[jupiter] that threw your senses [cancer] out of whack. [opposition]

Often, the balance/treatment comes from cutting way back on the overload, and getting back to simple basics while your body heals? You may need to avoid stimulation and retreat for awhile?
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
HumptyDumpty69 said:

So are you politely telling me that you, and no one else on this site
will comment on my questions
because they are skeptical as to the accuracy of my birth time?

I'll check out the link you provided; but could we just look at the major bodies
and assume the houses are accurate?

You gotta' give me something if you're this knowledgable, especially if y
ou're the only one commenting.
Click to expand...
keep in mind that ours is an INFORMAL astrological learning forum
therefore
responses to threads
are often from members who are beginners with little or no experience
keen to learn by practice
however
we also have members with many years of astrological study completed
nevertheless
there are no structured classes
members practice astrological skills free
no one is paid
members have day jobs
and those of our members who are professionals
do not provide a complete professional reading for free
our forum encourages members to interpret their own charts
to learn by practice

There are multiple forms of astrological technique
including Modern, Traditional, Tropical, Sidereal and Vedic
since this is the General board
since this is the General board I encourage you to post your chart on our Vedic forum as well
take the opportunity to have a Vedic reading of your chart :smile:
and Vedic astrologers mostly comment on their board
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
HD69, please see my post on your other recent thread, as well.

Basically, the elements break down thusly:

earth: practical, material
air: mental, intellectual
fire: enthusiasm, action
water: emotion, feelings, sometimes spirituality

With so much water in your chart, your feelings are very important and real to you. For a musician who wants to truly get into the mood and feel of the music, you have a leg up on most other musicians, whose playing may come across as more cerebral or mechanical.

However, your reliance on gut feelings can make it hard for you to deal with problems in a more "airy" problem-solving fashion. You may not even see the point of people getting excited about abstract ideas for their own sake.

Notably with a Pisces moon, you are very sensitive to other people's feelings, as well as your own. On the positive side, you probably know what other people need without being told. But it is not a good idea for you to hang out with negative people. Like a psychic sponge, you are apt to soak up their negativity. So hopefully you do not have to spend a lot of time with people like this.

With sun conjunct Pluto in Scorpio, you are very intense. Other people may actually think of you as very powerful, even if you don't feel this way yourself.

A planet that is retrograde has its energy turned inward. Jupiter ("Jove", the root of our word jovial) is a good-luck factor in the chart, spontaneous and open-handed. The people I've known with Jupiter retrograde (father, ex husband, husband) have/had a sense of humour, but it wasn't so relaxed or carefree. In fact, they have/had a strong serious streak. (The Monty Python actor John Cleese has Jupiter retrograde, but note how he plays these serious characters who nonetheless manage to be very funny as they try to hold it together.)

Your whole chart looks like a kite, although some of the aspects would technically be out-of-orb. Your life-focus ordinarily would be on the planet/s at the kite's apex: Neptune and Saturn, insofar as they relate to your body and outward personality.

These two planets are almost polar opposites, except insofar as they can make you feel miserably depressed on occasion. (Neptune=illusion and disillusionment.) A more empowering interpretation is the self-discipline (Saturn) that you need as a musician to bring that world of exalted illusion (Neptune) to your audience.

Generally if planets in a grand trine are part of a kite, we'd look at the kite, not the grand trine. The planets in opposition give the kite a lot of backbone that the grand trine doesn't have.

Chiron shows us "where it hurts," but also where, if we stay open to it, we gain in wisdom and compassion. In your 7th house, you may suffer from a few broken hearts, yet gain in understanding of the human condition in love.

There are a few dozen different house systems, with 4-5 in common use. (Placidus=this one, Koch, whole signs, equal houses, and Regiomontanus.) The house cusps will differ somewhat or even a lot depending upon which house system you use. Check and see which house system these other astrologer's used. When a planet is within 5 degrees of the next house cusp, many astrologers will consider its influence to be felt in the next house, anyway.

There. Did I miss anything?
 
H

HumptyDumpty69

Member
@Katydid,

Thank you for your input.

I wasn't trying to exaggerate, but I see that I did. So I have one big trine. I guess that's a good thing? The Soviet Union collapsed on my birthday, I wonder what that means, lol.

1989/90 is having their saturn return this year, correct? Are the things you have said about mine specific to my kite? How does my saturn return differ? Don't most of us have Saturn opposite Jupiter with a Cap stellium or at least a triple conjunction? How might my return differ having my venus is Cap? Does my trine factor in to the return?
 
H

HumptyDumpty69

Member
@waybread,

No, I don't think you missed anything. You're spot on in regards to my water, pisces moon, and JupiterR.

I suppose I'm disappointed because I thought that JupiterR was my apex, and that it held some sort of secret for me. I need to pay attention to Saturn and Neptune, but I am not sure why they are so much more relevant than Venus and Uranus.

Is there anything I could be more aware of in regards to Saturn and Neptune? Something that I could attempt to apply to my life?

Once an amateur Tarot Reader, proclaimed empath/psychic (he had spirit guides),and amateurish Astrologer told me that since my JupiterR was in the 7th house, an enabling relationship (possibly and probably a romantic one) would be very relevant to my life and success, and would enable me. He said that Capricorn was relevant to that relationship. He said my JupiterR would force me to try harder in life to achieve the things that Cap and Saturn ask of me. Is this nonsense?
 
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waybread

waybread

Well-known member
HD, thanks for the feedback. It's hard to know sometimes the basis on which other astrologers make their interpretations, let alone a Tarot card reader.

Basically planets in the 7th house do put an emphasis on committed relationships. But just about anybody who is in or who has had a committed relationship is going to find it significant!

My personal take on your 7th house Jupiter retrograde and Chiron in the 7th is that you may suffer a certain amount of heartbreak in life (Chiron) but that if you stay open to your emotions and don't try to shut them down, you have the capacity to gain a lot of wisdom, something that both Chiron and Jupiter specialize in. Further, you have the capacity to gain in compassion (Chiron) for other people undergoing similar heart aches.

This doesn't mean you cannot meet your Special Someone and live happily ever after. Just that, by this point in your life, you probably know whereof I speak.

Jupiter is normally the good luck planet. His enthusiasm and spontaneity get dampened by being retrograde, but he's still Jupiter, nonetheless. For what it's worth, in traditional astrology Jupiter is exalted (strengthened) in Cancer, as well as by being in an angular house.

(Oops, gotta run. More soon....)
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Basically the planets in your kite are Jupiter, Mercury-Pluto-sun, Saturn-Neptune, and moon. You've got another group of planets at 2-3 degrees of their signs, Mars, Uranus, and Venus.

The planets at the top of the kite are focalizers in your chart because they are so connected to other planets. Then the opposition gives the kite more tension and urge to manifest than we would find with the easy grand trine on its own.

I think Saturn and Neptune ask you to probe what is real (Saturn) and what is unreal (Neptune.) More particularly since these planets are in your first house, what is real and unreal about your outward personality and body.

People with Neptune in the first house can find it difficult to know how they come across to other people, or indeed who they really are in a substantive way. I have this placement, as well, and we can outwardly appear to be people-pleasers or chameleons, mirroring back what we think other people want to see in us. Saturn can give a life-long identity crisis.

The the task is to achieve a balance between the two. I practiced the piano long enough as a kid to know that it requires enormous self-discipline (Saturn) but that you also have to feel the music at a level that transports you and the listener (Neptune.)

Saturn is a very strong planet in your chart, located in the angular first house in its own sign of Capricorn.

We might consider Venus to be part of the opposition with Jupiter and Chiron, although the aspect is a bit wide. Usually others find people with Venus in the first house to be attractive, even though (conjunct Uranus) you are probably unconventionally so.
 
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