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Research and Development This is a forum designed for applying scientific methods and understanding to all approaches of astrology, cooperative formulation and testing of new ideas, re-examination of known methods of delineation and interpretation, and the exploration of new astrological methods of all kinds (e.g. heliocentric models, planetary nodes and apogees, etc.).


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  #1  
Unread 01-09-2011, 09:13 PM
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Barycentric/Heliocentric Astrology

I have pondered for quite some time how to describe the significance of the orientation of our solar system as a whole. It seems to me that the general arrangement of matter in our solar system can represent, in real time, the influences upon the Sun itself. Let's examine the story of the Sun for a moment.

The Sun, our own little star, was born about 4.5 billion years ago. It's size, temperature, and behaviour change depending on its phase of existence (stage of life) at a given time. Sometimes there are internal conditions that aren't even apparent from the surface. Sometimes there are surface conditions that wouldn't be apparent from within. Most commonly, there are internal conditions which cycle and perpetuate to cause external conditions. Indeed, internal and external conditions are causally related in both directions. Whatever happens to the Sun, it will respond as a collective system and not just a bunch of pieces to be tallied. A more rigorous researcher might want to describe the Sun as being a complex, adaptive system (CAS) and would be entirely correct.

This brings us the question of causes to the Sun's behaviour. Ignoring any and all human effects, what could be so great as to cause the Sun itself to change? It does seem to change regularly, after all. New cycles are continually discovered and old cycles seem interrupted at times. What could be the cause of these strange effects? I propose that the most likely cause of common changes within and about the Sun to be the orientation of matter in our solar system. The Sun is the centre of the system, but not all of it. It stands to reason that when matter moves in our solar system (e.g. planets, asteroids, comets, clouds, etc.), there should be resulting internal conditions within the Sun which correspond to the change in external conditions.

To the end of testing this idea, I have written a tool to display the arrangement of our solar system from the Sun's point of view. This tool I've called the Baryscope, because its display is technically barycentric. The centre of the chart (represented by a small, white double-circle) is the exact centre of mass (and therefore gravity) in our solar system. All things in this system orbit the barycentre, even the Sun. There is also the option to include heliocentric houses (equal houses, first cusp identical to the position of Earth) for further testing. Below is a link and an attached example of a barycentric chart. There is also some further explanation accompanying the tool. Feel free to comment as is appropriate.

Tool: http://www.twelvestaralmanac.com/baryscope.shtml
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File Type: png bary_sample.png (85.0 KB, 10 views)
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Unread 01-09-2011, 11:12 PM
eternalautumn
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Re: Barycentric/Heliocentric Astrology

This is interesting, but seems more astronomy than astrology.

The whole point of astrology is that it shows how the planets and stars affect life on Earth. It is Earth-centered. You can't change that, or astrology becomes meaningless.

The only things that would be affected by a Sun-centered astrology as you have presented it here, are organisms that live on the Sun.
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Unread 01-09-2011, 11:19 PM
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Re: Barycentric/Heliocentric Astrology

Really interesting, Mark! Could you perhaps compare conventionally constructed geocentric, heliocentric, and barycentric charts for the same event or birthdate, and then explain what we are seeing?

Also, as w/ EA's point--can you suggest what the implications would be for horoscope interpretation?
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Unread 01-10-2011, 01:54 AM
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Re: Barycentric/Heliocentric Astrology

Heliocentric and Barycentric models are very close to being the same thing. I consider the barycentric model more useful because it shows you which way the Sun is "leaning" around the barycentre. There are big differences, of course, between those two and the geocentric model, which is only concerned with how things look from Earth. It's understandable that some will be slow to move beyond that geocentric comfort zone. Just ask Copernicus.

In understanding the importance of looking at things from the Sun's point of view, we need to remember that the Sun is not concerned with what is happening on Earth. We live on Earth, of course, but the Sun doesn't. The idea is that the influence given to the Earth by the Sun depends upon the Sun's condition, not the Earth's condition. The Earth's condition might be descriptive of how that influence is received, but the Sun's condition determines the quality of the influence in the first place.

If we want to know about the reception of the Sun's influence on Earth at a given time and place, we would look to a Sun chart. That Sun chart will show how all the other planets are organised around Earth, effecting the reception of the Sun's influence. This is actually how lots (parts) work mathematically. The idea here is that the Sun is not an island that is far away and removed from all of its planets. The Sun is the centre of a system which includes its planets. Thus, the influence that the Sun transmits would be shaped by the organisation of the entire system. If we can know and understand both the transmission and reception of the influence from the Sun, we will be that much closer to fully accounting for the Sun's influence on Earth.

I will spend some time soon to make an example of a chart comparison. I'm sure it will prove both challenging and useful.
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Unread 01-10-2011, 02:43 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Barycentric/Heliocentric Astrology

Various Modernist authors (Hall, Robson, Sepharial, Tucker, Carter, Johndro, et al) were not much impressed by the practical results when trying to apply the heliocentric astrological model: perhaps what was missing in that model was a more correct/real-world orientation which Mark's proposed Barycentric model might well provide: interesting and thought-provoking! Thank you Mark!
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Unread 01-10-2011, 04:34 AM
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Re: Barycentric/Heliocentric Astrology

Mark--two more questions:

1. What is "SA" on the perimeter?
2. A standard heliocentric chart (like the one at Astrodienst) will often show the position of the earth, which is always opposite one's sun. Does that make sense, also, with your barycentric chart?
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