Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

tsmall

Premium Member
I am 89% certain that I have this correctly, but being really new, I wanted to see if I could get corroboration. I have natal Sun in Libra opposed mathematically Moon in Pisces. I say this because my understanding is that really, Libra cannot oppose Pisces, but rather is inconjunct by sign. However...

The question first came up on this forum in a different thread.

An eclipse just hours after your birth shall have affected your life somehow. I notice the moon changed signs hours after your birth as well, so your natal moon is in Pisces, but the eclipse after your birth occurred when the moon was in Aries, not Pisces and this could have some bearing on the effects of the eclipse, perhaps lessening the effects? I'm no expert, just something I noticed.
Sun is at 2*14'37" Libra, and Moon is at 27*45'44" Pisces. Sun declination is 0*53'33 S, Moon 0*19'50" S. That's less than half a degree? (I hate math :sad:) The lunar eclipse on 9/25/1969 occured at 4:21pm, just about 6 hours after my birth. This makes Sun conjunct Moon by Parallel Declination? Should all Lunar Eclipses be read as conjunctions? And if this is correct (a really big assumption!) how would this conjunction be read in a natal chart? I have attached the chart, but which house would it affect? Further, if indeed a conjunction, would that make Moon conjunct and not opposed the Libra stellium?

Thanks to any who reply. :happy:

tamara whole sign.jpg
 

miquar

Well-known member
Hi tsmall. I would definitely read the Sun Moon aspect as an opposition rather than a conjunction. But I think you've raised an interesting point - that at eclipses the luminaries are also parallel, and so this may alter the interpretation of a full Moon which is also a lunar eclipse. I'm a bit lazy when it comes to parallels myself, unfortunately. I suppose I see them as less important than strong midpoint contacts or close minor aspects. I should probably experiment with them a bit more.
 
If you are new to learning astrology, you should really start with more of the basics, before delving this deep into more complex things.


parrallel
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/parallels.htm
http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/contraparallel.html
http://www2.bitstream.net/~bunlion/bpi/Glossary3.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/declinationsparallels.html

Contraparallel :
An aspect formed when two planets are in opposite declination, that is, when they are the same distance from the celestial equator, one north of it and one south. Generally considered to operate like an opposition.
http://www2.bitstream.net/~bunlion/bpi/Glossary.html#C
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tsmall

Premium Member
Hi tsmall. I would definitely read the Sun Moon aspect as an opposition rather than a conjunction. But I think you've raised an interesting point - that at eclipses the luminaries are also parallel, and so this may alter the interpretation of a full Moon which is also a lunar eclipse. I'm a bit lazy when it comes to parallels myself, unfortunately. I suppose I see them as less important than strong midpoint contacts or close minor aspects. I should probably experiment with them a bit more.

Hi miquar, thanks for the reply. I had originally read the Sun/Moon as an opposition...who wouldn't with the line clearly there, lol. As I mentioned above though, by sign, Libra cannot oppose Pisces...however, a lunar eclipse viewed from Earth does in fact appear as a conjuntion, doesn't it? Further reading has lead me to question how a Moon conjunct Sun but not combust, would operate in a natal chart. Still hoping someone here can verify that the conjunction exits.
 
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tsmall

Premium Member
If you are new to learning astrology, you should really start with more of the basics, before delving this deep into more complex things.


parrallel
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/parallels.htm
http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/contraparallel.html
http://www2.bitstream.net/~bunlion/bpi/Glossary3.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/declinationsparallels.html

Contraparallel :
An aspect formed when two planets are in opposite declination, that is, when they are the same distance from the celestial equator, one north of it and one south. Generally considered to operate like an opposition.
http://www2.bitstream.net/~bunlion/bpi/Glossary.html#C
http://astrology.findyourfate.com/

astrologer50, thank you for the links. Those to the parallel conjunction I have already read, and they are all stingy with information at best. I noticed however that you bolded the Contraparallel links. Does this mean you read a lunar eclipse as a contraparallel, and stress the opposition? From the data tables available at astro.com, and in any house system, both Sun and Moon in the chart are on the same side of the celestial equator, and not one north and one south as referenced above. Am I missing something? If I am please, show me where?

As far as starting with the basics, I think that understanding one's own natal chart is where we all begin? Sun opposed Moon is quite different from Sun conjunct moon?
 
Hi miquar, thanks for the reply. I had originally read the Sun/Moon as an opposition...who wouldn't with the line clearly there, lol. As I mentioned above though, by sign, Libra cannot oppose Pisces...however, a lunar eclipse viewed from Earth does in fact appear as a conjuntion, doesn't it? Further reading has lead me to question how a Moon conjunct Sun but not combust, would operate in a natal chart. Still hoping someone here can verify that the conjunction exits.

I think you are overanalysing or stressing about just this one aspect really....

I have sun taurus wide orb conj moon aries. but I think my taurus stellium tones down any impulsiveness or impatience of aries.I've bags of patience. with regards to parents (which you must relate back to) they did bascially blend, but at times (like in most relationships) there would be times of opposition/tension and arguments. Basically through jealousy, my parents were hoteliers and he didn't really like her talking to male guests :pouty:

Those to the parallel conjunction I have already read, and they are all stingy with information at best
well if there is not much information on these aspects, shouldn't that be telling you something of how important they are?? if it was there would be tons of stuff out there on them....
 

miquar

Well-known member
Hi tsmall. It is an 'out of sign' opposition because, as you say, the signs involved are not opposite. This makes the opposition less straightforward to interpret in terms of signs, generally speaking. However, in this case, because the Sun and Moon are in many ways natural opposites, and because air (libra) and water (pisces) are opposite elements in terms of the psychological functions they symbolise, it is kind of neat. You have a watery (feeling-orientated) instinctive nature at odds with an airy (intellectually orientated) sense of individuality and creativity.
Using Whole Sign houses the Moon is near the 7th cusp, so the houses affected are the first and seventh. Using any other house system the opposition would fall across the 6th and 12th houses.

Libra and Pisces are both idealistic and romantic in their different ways, so these may be qualities which apply to you, and through which you can unite your Sun and Moon.

However, a look at this opposition is nowhere near complete without noting the square from Mars in Capricorn. Both the civilised Libran Sun (conjunct Uranus too), and the sensitive, empathic moon in Neptune may well feel uncomfortable with Mars, so a further challenge to you may be to find a way of embracing and integrating your healthy aggressive energy. You may be able to fight for your ideals and those you care for, but may be troubled by a fear of being selfish if you pursue your own desires and goals, and when you assert your individuality.

With regard to the eclipse being like a conjunction - it is the earth's shadow which conjuncts the Moon. It would only be an opposition in heliocentric astrology, in which the Sun is placed at the centre of the chart. I would just call it an opposition!
 

tsmall

Premium Member
Hi tsmall. It is an 'out of sign' opposition because, as you say, the signs involved are not opposite. This makes the opposition less straightforward to interpret in terms of signs, generally speaking. However, in this case, because the Sun and Moon are in many ways natural opposites, and because air (libra) and water (pisces) are opposite elements in terms of the psychological functions they symbolise, it is kind of neat. You have a watery (feeling-orientated) instinctive nature at odds with an airy (intellectually orientated) sense of individuality and creativity.
Using Whole Sign houses the Moon is near the 7th cusp, so the houses affected are the first and seventh. Using any other house system the opposition would fall across the 6th and 12th houses.

Libra and Pisces are both idealistic and romantic in their different ways, so these may be qualities which apply to you, and through which you can unite your Sun and Moon.

However, a look at this opposition is nowhere near complete without noting the square from Mars in Capricorn. Both the civilised Libran Sun (conjunct Uranus too), and the sensitive, empathic moon in Neptune may well feel uncomfortable with Mars, so a further challenge to you may be to find a way of embracing and integrating your healthy aggressive energy. You may be able to fight for your ideals and those you care for, but may be troubled by a fear of being selfish if you pursue your own desires and goals, and when you assert your individuality.

With regard to the eclipse being like a conjunction - it is the earth's shadow which conjuncts the Moon. It would only be an opposition in heliocentric astrology, in which the Sun is placed at the centre of the chart. I would just call it an opposition!

hi miquar, this is very good.

In exploring house systems, I found that, for me, a 1st house stellium, with Sun in Libra but in fall made more sense than a Sun in 12th, because if the Sun is in the same sign as the ASC it cannot be cadent. Also, Venus as ASC ruler in 12th and in fall works better than Venus in 11th. I do know that it is the Earth's shadow that forms the conjunction, and was only referring to what it "looks like" when we see it. Both of the bolded descriptions are spot on, and placing the moon in 7th (partnerships) opposing sun in 1st, squaring Mars in 4th (home) makes the description all the more appropriate. Thanks again for taking the time to look and reply.

I do still wonder though about the possibility of a conjunction at a Lunar eclipse. Will perhaps continue to investigate. :smile:
 

tsmall

Premium Member
I think you are overanalysing or stressing about just this one aspect really....

well if there is not much information on these aspects, shouldn't that be telling you something of how important they are?? if it was there would be tons of stuff out there on them....

Thanks for the reply, astrologer50. Perhaps I am overanalysing or stressing, or perhaps just trying to understand better the two luminaries in my chart. :smile:

Regarding "tons of stuff out there on them," there are perhaps two or possibly three lunar eclipses in a year, aren't there? Meaning that, while several thousands of people will be born shortly before, during, and after one, the vast majority of full moon births will be without an eclipse, and therefore simply a Sun opposed Moon aspect. Cafe Astrology says this

http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/sunmoonaspects.html

Unless the conjunction occurs in different signs, those people born with Sun in conjunction to the Moon have a "double dose" of the same sign. That sign assumes more importance than usual. Because the wants (Sun) and the needs (Moon) are aligned, these people have marked singleness of purpose. Generally, they come across as rather uncomplicated in terms of what they want out of life and their means of getting to that place. They are able to make decisions without too much struggle, simply because it is not their tendency to spread themselves around in order to find all of their options. Some people with this aspect are self-centered, but this is not always the case. Subjective, yes. Decisive, yes. Focused, yes. But ignorant of others' needs? Not likely.

The description of the conjunction fits me perfectly, but yet the opening phrase is all that is given regarding out of sign conjunctions. My guess is that because this happens so infrequently in relation to the vast number of births that occur (meaning affecting thousands, not millions) there probably isn't going to be "tons of stuff out there on them?"
 
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miquar

Well-known member
Hi tsmall. Good luck with your endeavours. Perhaps it would be relevant which way round the Nodal axis was too - i.e. North Node conjunct the Sun or North Node conjunct the Moon. Some people associate the South Node with habits remaining from the past (sounds very lunar) and the North Node with qualities needing to be developed in order for consciousness to increase (sounds very solar). So perhaps if the South Node is conjunct the Sun, and the North Node conjunct the Moon, there would be a merging of Sun and Moon energies.

Taking the Nodal axis to mean the kinds of associations you will make with others, having both the Sun and the Moon on the axis may bring them together through these associations, too.

However, without wanting to challenge your own perceptions of how your chart manifests, I would point out that your case is far from a straightforward example of a lunar eclipse. I didn't register it fully before but your Sun Moon opposition is part of a very large T-square, involving Sun, Moon, Mars, Chiron, Uranus and Pluto, as well as the Nodal axis. Some of the aspects involved in this are very close.

Although you said you could identify with the part about not feeling comfortable with asserting your own desires, this T-square suggests that nonetheless you are capable of being single minded - Sun square Mars, conjunct Uranus, conjunct Pluto - despite the sensitivities to others shown by the Libra and Pisces prominence.

I would also point out that in this case, the opposition of Sun and moon does not fall particularly close to the Nodal axis, and indeed the Sun is already over ten degrees separating from its conjunction to the South Node.

I'm inclined to tentatively speculate that the part of you that identifies with the Sun conjunct Moon quote that you posted is actually reflected in parts of your chart other than the Pisces Moon, and not in a merging of Sun and Moon through their contact with the Nodal axis. Do you feel in touch with your Pisces Moon? - whatever else is happening in the chart, you should look to cultivate the qualities associated with that planet sign placement. Even someone with Sun at one degree Aries and Moon at 29 degrees Pisces would need to do this - despite the 'New Moon' general interpretations telling them that they are single minded and decisive, they still have that rather diffuse and malleable Pisces Moon to feed!

I would urge anyone looking at their chart to keep a sense of proportion between the factors - to look for the prominent themes in one's life in the prominent chart factors before looking to more obscure and hypothetical to explain things. But I also respect your need to question and explore.
 

JerryRR

Well-known member
Hi Tamara,Bil Tierney looks at dissociate aspects in his book,"Dynamics of Aspect Analysis.
Quote.
"We are perhaps as guilty as most modern astrologers in failing to give adequate recognition to parallels of declination.It sometimes happens that the heavens will find an opportunity of bashing the student across the head,so that his attention is drawn to something important."(Chernobyl)
page 134,"Eclipses." Appleby/McCann.

25 September.
MO P UR
SU P MO
SU CP MO
MO CP UR

J. :)
 
miqir,

that was the most tactful, thoughtful response I have read in ages, well done. I wish I could wright like you do at times...:love:
 
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tsmall

Premium Member
Hi Tamara,Bil Tierney looks at dissociate aspects in his book,"Dynamics of Aspect Analysis.
Quote.
"We are perhaps as guilty as most modern astrologers in failing to give adequate recognition to parallels of declination.It sometimes happens that the heavens will find an opportunity of bashing the student across the head,so that his attention is drawn to something important."(Chernobyl)
page 134,"Eclipses." Appleby/McCann.

25 September.
MO P UR
SU P MO
SU CP MO
MO CP UR

J. :)

Hi back. Is that a yes, no, or both happened on the same date? :smile:
 

miquar

Well-known member
Hi Astrologer50. Thanks so much for your very kind words.

Hi tsmall. I think JerryRR is saying that at the all of those parallels and contraparallels were within orb at the moment that the Chernobyl reactor blew. Though I don't understand how Moon was both parallel and contraparallel with Sun and Uranus at the same time? Maybe JerryRR could clarify?
 
Hi Astrologer50. Thanks so much for your very kind words.
you are more than welcome, after all the challenging threads and personal attacks I've gone through on here past few days, it's so nice to so eloquent pose and real understanding of astrology rather than the wannabe's

Just wish I had time and patience to write like that, did it come easy/natural or did you have to really think about it? my mercury retro would have to take time, dwell on things and do drafts, edit, edit again and the poss come out with a materpiece. I can do it but takes a lot of effort....
 

miquar

Well-known member
I do sometimes spend half an hour or so just writing one post, but the way I communicate about astrology is the way that comes most naturally to me - I couldn't force the words out in any other way. Thanks again for your encouragement.
 

JerryRR

Well-known member
25 September 1969

MO P UR 09:31
SU P MO 10:14

MO 0N 13:17 :)

SU CP MO 16:43
MO CP UR 17:05
SU P UR 23:34

The American Ephemeris 1931 to 1980,Michelsen.

Rudhyar looks at this moon phase in his book "The Lunation Cycle."

J. :)
 

miquar

Well-known member
I see, so Moon was parallel Sun and Uranus in the morning, crossed the ecliptic at 13:17 and then was contraparallel Sun and Uranus by the evening because everything was so close to the ecliptic. Then Sun was parallel Uranus by the end of the day. Yes very striking - I should look at the chart for the explosion some time. Thanks JerryRR.
 

JerryRR

Well-known member
Hi M,
Chernobyl explosion,25 April 1986,23:23:40 GMT 51N20 30E20.
Asc23Cap49 MC27Sc12.
Lunar Eclipse 24 April 86 12:47.

Appleby/McCann 1989 The Aquarius Press.

J.:)
 

tsmall

Premium Member
I do sometimes spend half an hour or so just writing one post, but the way I communicate about astrology is the way that comes most naturally to me - I couldn't force the words out in any other way. Thanks again for your encouragement.

Hi miquar, I also think your posts are well thought out, and very well written. I appreciate the time you have given to this thread and will hopefully have time to compose a response this evening. :smile:

I think JerryRR was saying that the parallel happened in the morning, then the eclipse, then the contraparallel, as you suggested. I am supposing that would read as conjunction, eclipse and then opposition?
 
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