I always seem to have a hard time with work and I'm not sure why?

WisdomJoy

Well-known member
I created a new chart. This time about my career in general. I've had a number of losses in terms of roles ending even though I was a top performer or being bullied and therefore forced to quit. Not having a great environment, or missing out on roles that I worked really hard to get. It's also taken me twice as long to find something at times.

Any insight is helpful. Thanks.

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waybread

Well-known member
I think your natal chart would give more accurate answers. A horary chart is time-sensitive and a situation that applied to job #1 might be completely different in job #2.

This chart's Mercury (your ruler) is in its fall in Pisces. Stuck there with Neptune, I suspect that you find it hard to present yourself as someone not to be trifled with. Do you normally find it hard to put yourself forward?

I note that in a bullying situation your inclination is just to quit. In Canada where I live, "being forced to quit" over bullying is called constructive dismissal. Then you would actually have a legal case if your employer knew about the bullying and did nothing to stop it-- or was the perpetrator. There's no stigma in being a contract worker in today's gig economy. But if your c.v. simply shows you quitting a job, it can be harder to get the next one.

Moon opposite Mars in this chart suggest confrontation. Maybe your hope to simply rise above it needs rethinking.

Good luck with this, and please post your birth chart with this question.
 

Hkk

Account Closed
I created a new chart. This time about my career in general. I've had a number of losses in terms of roles ending even though I was a top performer or being bullied and therefore forced to quit. Not having a great environment, or missing out on roles that I worked really hard to get. It's also taken me twice as long to find something at times.

Any insight is helpful. Thanks.

View attachment 84742

Hi wisdom joy - can you post natal chart instead please?
 

ElenaJ

Well-known member
Ascendent ruler mercury in its fall and detriment, opposing ascendent and conjunct Neptune, would suggest that in some way you place yourself in work situations that aren't suitable to you, and don't present yourself in a clear consistent way, creating confusion about your role.
Midheaven ruler is Venus, strong in taurus but at the last degree which shows no room for development.
Moon is involved in a T-square with mars, Saturn and Uranus. Both Saturn and Uranus are co-significators of the 6th house of work showing difficulties in the job, and the mars opposition points to conflicts, from individual self-serving Leo moon to universal humanitarian Aquarius mars. Mars also rules the 9th house, international work.
So, it looks like you aren't inserted in the best work sector for you, the job choices are not related to career development, and you tend to create conflicts by pushing yourself forward, while not giving a clear picture of yourself in the work position.
If you also post your natal, you could get some help in identifying and channeling your energies in a more constructive way for your own development.
 

WisdomJoy

Well-known member
Ascendent ruler mercury in its fall and detriment, opposing ascendent and conjunct Neptune, would suggest that in some way you place yourself in work situations that aren't suitable to you, and don't present yourself in a clear consistent way, creating confusion about your role.
Midheaven ruler is Venus, strong in taurus but at the last degree which shows no room for development.
Moon is involved in a T-square with mars, Saturn and Uranus. Both Saturn and Uranus are co-significators of the 6th house of work showing difficulties in the job, and the mars opposition points to conflicts, from individual self-serving Leo moon to universal humanitarian Aquarius mars. Mars also rules the 9th house, international work.
So, it looks like you aren't inserted in the best work sector for you, the job choices are not related to career development, and you tend to create conflicts by pushing yourself forward, while not giving a clear picture of yourself in the work position.
If you also post your natal, you could get some help in identifying and channeling your energies in a more constructive way for your own development.

Hi Elena J, when you say that I don't present myself in a consistent manor does that mean that my work isn't consistent- I ask because I've gotten really good feedback on my role. That said I've been in mostly support roles in my last position the role was eliminated and our entire function was consistently questioned on the impact that we were creating.

What do you mean by conflicts between self and humanitarianism? I ask because my passion normally isn't in the roles that I'm working in but the work that I do on the side which is human rights and social justice and sustainability. So Ive found it particularly hard to find those roles and all of them that I apply to, normally I don't get them candidly. So i end up taking these roles in divisions I'm don't necessarily want to work in. Like I love human behaviour but not in the context of buying makeup and haircare (for example), and then I do all these side projects within the organization and outside of it to work on these humanitarian projects which I actually care about.

The international part is interesting and the reason why I wanted to become a consultant, I absolutely love the travelling and the working in different sectors and in global markets. Even conducting projects in those spaces is incredibly interesting to me.

here is my natal. Thanks everyone and apologies for not even trying to read it myself. I realized I just posted the chart and didn't make any effort. Sorry.
 
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WisdomJoy

Well-known member
I think your natal chart would give more accurate answers. A horary chart is time-sensitive and a situation that applied to job #1 might be completely different in job #2.

This chart's Mercury (your ruler) is in its fall in Pisces. Stuck there with Neptune, I suspect that you find it hard to present yourself as someone not to be trifled with. Do you normally find it hard to put yourself forward?

I note that in a bullying situation your inclination is just to quit. In Canada where I live, "being forced to quit" over bullying is called constructive dismissal. Then you would actually have a legal case if your employer knew about the bullying and did nothing to stop it-- or was the perpetrator. There's no stigma in being a contract worker in today's gig economy. But if your c.v. simply shows you quitting a job, it can be harder to get the next one.

Moon opposite Mars in this chart suggest confrontation. Maybe your hope to simply rise above it needs rethinking.

Good luck with this, and please post your birth chart with this question.

Thank you so much for your feedback.
 

ElenaJ

Well-known member
Thanks for the chart, it's already made some things clearer.
First, your questions/comments:

"when you say that I don't present myself in a consistent manor does that mean that my work isn't consistent-"

No, it means your presentation of yourself is not consistent.

"What do you mean by conflicts between self and humanitarianism? "
The word "self" was not the best choice, maybe personal ambition is better, and neither was "humanitarianism". There is a conflict between being a team player, and working with the group.

"So i end up taking these roles in divisions I'm don't necessarily want to work in."

Exactly.

"I do all these side projects within the organization and outside of it to work on these humanitarian projects which I actually care about. "

Going off on your own to do what you want.
 

Chrysalis

Well-known member
Regarding your horary chart, its the 11th house issues that are posing to be a problem for you in your work. The opposition between L11/moon and derived 11th from 7th/Saturn. Your rivals (7th) derived 11th ruler Saturn is dignified. Your 11th ruler moon is not dignified, you are peregrine.

11th house being about group endeavors and organizations, networking etc. It looks like you are a round peg in a square hole. A peregrine planet is like a foreigner in a country, you feel lost and you just go along with things, you don't have any power to act, this makes you more prone to be manipulated and taken advantage of.

Mars also has had a say in all this having just been conjunct Saturn, Mars rules your 9th and is in the derived 11th, mars separates, so there is something that separates you from others? Are the organizations you are working for of a different ethnicity to you by any chance?
 

ElenaJ

Well-known member
The natal chart.
Midheaven of career is ruled by Venus, in business minded, ambitious Capricorn in the first house. So your career and status, and your expression of yourself are tied together. Capricorn is very hard working, responsible, concrete, dedicated. Venus is pleasure, love, relaxation. So right here, we see a difficulty in expression of these two energies, they are on two different tracks.
Venus would indicate a career in the arts, beauty, decorating, visual arts, with libra tending towards aesthetics, law, politics, public policy, diplomacy. Capricorn finds Venus frivolous, and wants something more concrete and stable, that could take the form of architecture, arts endowments, public entertainment, also writing.. not novels and fantasy but text books, treatises, research documents, statistics, "serious" works.
Also on the midheaven is moon at the last degree of libra. The moon has phases, and the career will tend to have phases, there won't be one specific career over the lifetime but an evolution of careers. Moon is our emotional expression, so work will be the outlet, the practical manifestation of your emotions. Moon is sympathetic, caring, and in libra it is outgoing reaching out to others on an emotional level. You project sympathy and a nurturing caring image towards others.
So, and now we see something remarkable, the 6th house of work. The cusp is exactly conjunct the moons in both horary charts! So here is that link we noticed before and now we know why! So both horary charts can be considered valid.
In addition, the midheaven and moon conjuncts the late ascendent of one of the horary charts, validating it in spite of the late degree.
Back to 6th house, ruled by mercury in gemini. Gemini is an air sign, a double sign, and intellectual and communicative sign. So we know there will be more than one job, it will be in some way connected to communications. Mercury is in the 12th house conjunct Saturn, ruler of the ascendent, and the 2nd house of income and self esteem. Again, there is a direct link between work and personal identity.
The 12 house rules institutions, public organisations, hospitals, jails. It is the subconscious, and mercury here has antennas out towards the public awareness, it can pick up on the public mood.
Mercury in sagittarius is not comfortable, it tends to be scattered, but with stabilising Saturn it manages to sit still long enough to concentrate. Sagittarius is the sign of foreign travel, higher learning, cultural interests.
We are starting to see a theme here, no?
Mercury, ruler of the 6th of work, conjunct Saturn ruler of the 2nd, gives good possibilities of earning well through your work.
Sun is the basic individual, the innate personality traits, and here it is in sagittarius, again bringing forward the idea of travel, adventure, mixed cultures, internationalism.
With Uranus, there is a strong need for freedom, spontaneity, and there is a tendency to not be very consistent, as the uranuian energy will suddenly throw things up in the air, will go off on its own path, rebel against authority, and will be seen by others as erratic. (Here we are seeing the horary theme of lack of consistency. ).
On the ascendent is Neptune. So the way you present yourself to others passes through the nebulous filter of Neptune, others often have a hard time seeing you for who you are, you seem to be one but then are another. This isn't dishonesty, this is just a lack of clarity, and the natural quality of Neptune. (Again, this was shown in the horary).
Neptune is also empathy, compassion, so this repeats the idea of moon on midheaven. Others will pick up on this quality, they see you really care.
So far the link between career, emotional needs, projection, self esteem and income, all tie together.
But there is a very important energy source in the chart, the mars/pluto conjunction in scorpio. This is probably the most powerful aspect in the chart, and the most difficult one to handle. This too was in the horary, as moon opposing saurn/mars and square uranus. In strong scorpio there is no giving way, this energy is strong, passionate, courageous, and at the same time volatile, and ruthless. You have to have your own way, and to achieve it you will manipulate, use coercion, even violence, but you must get your way. Any means is valid to achieve your goal. When this is used to work towards goals it cannot be defeated, it is the winning card. But when it is turned against an adversary or coworkers, it is lethal. It is very important that this energy be directed positively, mars and Pluto are in the 10th house, so this energy becomes part of your status as well, people will view you through this, and if it is negative they will sense it immediately.
Mars/pluto does not like to take orders or obey authority, just like sun/uranus doesn't, so you should be in a position where you make the decisions, set the goals, and lead, or work on your own.
Last, note where south node is. Just inside the 9th house of travel, and international affairs. So this is touching a past life energy, this is where your comfort zone lies, where you retreat when you feel threatened or weak.
But this halts your growth, it just gives you comfort but doesn't push you ahead. Falling automatically back on this, and giving in to the draw of the foreign loving sagittarius planets, may seem natural, but it would be more beneficial to you to follow the north node, which would be travels, but not internationally. It would be communicating, or writing, but not higher education or law.
This is a long analysis, there is much more, as always in any natal chart, but by putting together the pieces, you may get a clearer idea of where to direct your energies, reset your goals.
It seems to me that both horary charts and the natal are coherent and not giving mixed signals. Can you pick them up and put them together?
You have a lot of potential, at the moment it doesn't seem to be channeled in the most effective way, you have to step back and evaluate. You can cherry pick, choose the positives and emphasise them, put the weak parts on the back burner. Your personal expression as a soul, and your work/career can go hand in hand. It's just easier if you are aware and moving towards the path that is most constructive for you as an individual.
 

WisdomJoy

Well-known member
Thanks for the chart, it's already made some things clearer.
First, your questions/comments:

"when you say that I don't present myself in a consistent manor does that mean that my work isn't consistent-"

No, it means your presentation of yourself is not consistent.

"What do you mean by conflicts between self and humanitarianism? "
The word "self" was not the best choice, maybe personal ambition is better, and neither was "humanitarianism". There is a conflict between being a team player, and working with the group.

"So i end up taking these roles in divisions I'm don't necessarily want to work in."

Exactly.

"I do all these side projects within the organization and outside of it to work on these humanitarian projects which I actually care about. "

Going off on your own to do what you want.

I find the going off on my own to do what I want a bit strange. I normally have to get permission first. The other thing is with my old organization, they actually asked me to lead this diversity project, I didn’t step up for it.
 

WisdomJoy

Well-known member
Regarding your horary chart, its the 11th house issues that are posing to be a problem for you in your work. The opposition between L11/moon and derived 11th from 7th/Saturn. Your rivals (7th) derived 11th ruler Saturn is dignified. Your 11th ruler moon is not dignified, you are peregrine.

11th house being about group endeavors and organizations, networking etc. It looks like you are a round peg in a square hole. A peregrine planet is like a foreigner in a country, you feel lost and you just go along with things, you don't have any power to act, this makes you more prone to be manipulated and taken advantage of.

Mars also has had a say in all this having just been conjunct Saturn, Mars rules your 9th and is in the derived 11th, mars separates, so there is something that separates you from others? Are the organizations you are working for of a different ethnicity to you by any chance?

Thank you so much for this. Wow, your last comment really resonated with me. I’m a woman of colour and racism is corporate Canada is terrible. My last organization was massive. 300 people at corporate office alone, and I was one of 3 black people there. When I started I didn’t even see any other black people in the company and this was 2017 mind you. I find that Canadians pride themselves on being multicultural but just looking at the lack of diversity normally gives it away.

I’ve normally been bullied or treated poorly or someone is ‘out to get me’ of sorts at every organization I’ve ever worked at. It’s almost as though people see and decide she’s not succeeding. Even coworkers that I’ve been close with can’t seem to figure it out.
 
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WisdomJoy

Well-known member
The natal chart.
Midheaven of career is ruled by Venus, in business minded, ambitious Capricorn in the first house. So your career and status, and your expression of yourself are tied together. Capricorn is very hard working, responsible, concrete, dedicated. Venus is pleasure, love, relaxation. So right here, we see a difficulty in expression of these two energies, they are on two different tracks.
Venus would indicate a career in the arts, beauty, decorating, visual arts, with libra tending towards aesthetics, law, politics, public policy, diplomacy. Capricorn finds Venus frivolous, and wants something more concrete and stable, that could take the form of architecture, arts endowments, public entertainment, also writing.. not novels and fantasy but text books, treatises, research documents, statistics, "serious" works.
Also on the midheaven is moon at the last degree of libra. The moon has phases, and the career will tend to have phases, there won't be one specific career over the lifetime but an evolution of careers. Moon is our emotional expression, so work will be the outlet, the practical manifestation of your emotions. Moon is sympathetic, caring, and in libra it is outgoing reaching out to others on an emotional level. You project sympathy and a nurturing caring image towards others.
So, and now we see something remarkable, the 6th house of work. The cusp is exactly conjunct the moons in both horary charts! So here is that link we noticed before and now we know why! So both horary charts can be considered valid.
In addition, the midheaven and moon conjuncts the late ascendent of one of the horary charts, validating it in spite of the late degree.
Back to 6th house, ruled by mercury in gemini. Gemini is an air sign, a double sign, and intellectual and communicative sign. So we know there will be more than one job, it will be in some way connected to communications. Mercury is in the 12th house conjunct Saturn, ruler of the ascendent, and the 2nd house of income and self esteem. Again, there is a direct link between work and personal identity.
The 12 house rules institutions, public organisations, hospitals, jails. It is the subconscious, and mercury here has antennas out towards the public awareness, it can pick up on the public mood.
Mercury in sagittarius is not comfortable, it tends to be scattered, but with stabilising Saturn it manages to sit still long enough to concentrate. Sagittarius is the sign of foreign travel, higher learning, cultural interests.
We are starting to see a theme here, no?
Mercury, ruler of the 6th of work, conjunct Saturn ruler of the 2nd, gives good possibilities of earning well through your work.
Sun is the basic individual, the innate personality traits, and here it is in sagittarius, again bringing forward the idea of travel, adventure, mixed cultures, internationalism.
With Uranus, there is a strong need for freedom, spontaneity, and there is a tendency to not be very consistent, as the uranuian energy will suddenly throw things up in the air, will go off on its own path, rebel against authority, and will be seen by others as erratic. (Here we are seeing the horary theme of lack of consistency. ).
On the ascendent is Neptune. So the way you present yourself to others passes through the nebulous filter of Neptune, others often have a hard time seeing you for who you are, you seem to be one but then are another. This isn't dishonesty, this is just a lack of clarity, and the natural quality of Neptune. (Again, this was shown in the horary).
Neptune is also empathy, compassion, so this repeats the idea of moon on midheaven. Others will pick up on this quality, they see you really care.
So far the link between career, emotional needs, projection, self esteem and income, all tie together.
But there is a very important energy source in the chart, the mars/pluto conjunction in scorpio. This is probably the most powerful aspect in the chart, and the most difficult one to handle. This too was in the horary, as moon opposing saurn/mars and square uranus. In strong scorpio there is no giving way, this energy is strong, passionate, courageous, and at the same time volatile, and ruthless. You have to have your own way, and to achieve it you will manipulate, use coercion, even violence, but you must get your way. Any means is valid to achieve your goal. When this is used to work towards goals it cannot be defeated, it is the winning card. But when it is turned against an adversary or coworkers, it is lethal. It is very important that this energy be directed positively, mars and Pluto are in the 10th house, so this energy becomes part of your status as well, people will view you through this, and if it is negative they will sense it immediately.
Mars/pluto does not like to take orders or obey authority, just like sun/uranus doesn't, so you should be in a position where you make the decisions, set the goals, and lead, or work on your own.
Last, note where south node is. Just inside the 9th house of travel, and international affairs. So this is touching a past life energy, this is where your comfort zone lies, where you retreat when you feel threatened or weak.
But this halts your growth, it just gives you comfort but doesn't push you ahead. Falling automatically back on this, and giving in to the draw of the foreign loving sagittarius planets, may seem natural, but it would be more beneficial to you to follow the north node, which would be travels, but not internationally. It would be communicating, or writing, but not higher education or law.
This is a long analysis, there is much more, as always in any natal chart, but by putting together the pieces, you may get a clearer idea of where to direct your energies, reset your goals.
It seems to me that both horary charts and the natal are coherent and not giving mixed signals. Can you pick them up and put them together?
You have a lot of potential, at the moment it doesn't seem to be channeled in the most effective way, you have to step back and evaluate. You can cherry pick, choose the positives and emphasise them, put the weak parts on the back burner. Your personal expression as a soul, and your work/career can go hand in hand. It's just easier if you are aware and moving towards the path that is most constructive for you as an individual.

Thanks so much for this in depth analysis, Elena J- I have a couple of questions.

1. "Venus would indicate a career in the arts, beauty, decorating, visual arts, with libra tending towards aesthetics, law, politics, public policy, diplomacy. Capricorn finds Venus frivolous, and wants something more concrete and stable, that could take the form of architecture, arts endowments, public entertainment, also writing.. not novels and fantasy but text books, treatises, research documents, statistics, "serious" works."

I find it incredibly interesting that you spoke about law and public policy because everyone always tells me that I should have been a human rights lawyer, I just never wanted to spend the additional 4 years in school.

2. I do want to do a higher degree, I was considering an MBA and then a masters as well. But you said that higher education isn't good? I've always dreamed about getting multiple degree's candidly. Even a PhD part time.

3. This is a huge reason why I wanted to work at the consulting firm, it would have given me pretty clear access to specialize in either social/public consulting projects or social impact after one year and that's my main goal-- so it always seemed like a great fit. Particularly the firm i interviewed with last year, they let you specialize in whatever you want.

4. The part about always getting what I want, I totally agree but I'm not mean or malicious to anyone. I but often that not, just give up on something/ put it on the back burner for the time being. I actively work hard not to be malicious or underhanded. I just see too many people do it outwardly and the impact it has on those around them and it's terrible. and I think its all bad karma to come from that.

5. "Falling automatically back on this, and giving in to the draw of the foreign loving sagittarius planets, may seem natural, but it would be more beneficial to you to follow the north node, which would be travels, but not internationally. It would be communicating, or writing, but not higher education or law." But how come not higher education or law when law and public policy was mentioned above?

6. The other thing is I don't necessarily love the arts, the previous role I was in before the last one, that was very arts based and qualitative insights and the people there were absolutely terrible. But I definitely didn't feel like I was learning after some time. That said, I don't feel like I'm learning or growing unless theres a combination or qual and quant to it.

7. "Mars/pluto does not like to take orders or obey authority, just like sun/uranus doesn't, so you should be in a position where you make the decisions, set the goals, and lead, or work on your own." This is very true but I find it to be situational, I immediately lose respect for authority when I find out they are discriminatory or racist or bully people or don't stand up for others. But candidly, that's most managers. a new study that just came out in Canada speaks to the lack of allyship. I don't think I can get around this one for some time.
 
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ElenaJ

Well-known member
The choices I entered in the analysis are varied and may not be applicable to you, you have to cherry pick.
Try to focus on the general themes, and identify what falls in line with them.
About the 9th house comments, with south node there, you may have a tendency to fall back on these things because they are a comfortable pool to swim in, but not necessarily bringing you a productive result. Evaluate carefully. Typical of this pitfall is the eternal student, who is forever going to school or university, but never getting beyond that point. This is an extreme, but just to explain the trap it presents.
You have to be the one to put the puzzle pieces together, you have to look inward and only you can do that. Use what is helpful and set aside the rest.
 

WisdomJoy

Well-known member
The choices I entered in the analysis are varied and may not be applicable to you, you have to cherry pick.
Try to focus on the general themes, and identify what falls in line with them.
About the 9th house comments, with south node there, you may have a tendency to fall back on these things because they are a comfortable pool to swim in, but not necessarily bringing you a productive result. Evaluate carefully. Typical of this pitfall is the eternal student, who is forever going to school or university, but never getting beyond that point. This is an extreme, but just to explain the trap it presents.
You have to be the one to put the puzzle pieces together, you have to look inward and only you can do that. Use what is helpful and set aside the rest.

Okay, thank you so much. I'm going to have to re-read it a couple times and sit with it a bit more.
 

WisdomJoy

Well-known member
So, and now we see something remarkable, the 6th house of work. The cusp is exactly conjunct the moons in both horary charts! So here is that link we noticed before and now we know why! So both horary charts can be considered valid.
In addition, the midheaven and moon conjuncts the late ascendent of one of the horary charts, validating it in spite of the late degree.

- Is this the chart asking about work in 8 months? I assumed that it wouldn't be valid because I asked out of sheer panic and in relation to the thread.
 
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ElenaJ

Well-known member
It's the one with the late degree on ascendent, not sure which one it was. It should normally be discarded, but in this case can be considered valid because of the link with your natal.
 

WisdomJoy

Well-known member
It's the one with the late degree on ascendent, not sure which one it was. It should normally be discarded, but in this case can be considered valid because of the link with your natal.

yea, thats the one with getting work in 8 months. But I think it still needs to be disregarded based on just asking out of sheer panic/ anxiety instead of asking out of genuine desire to know? Like the bad news from the one chart drove the creation of the other?
 
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