Moon and Pluto in the 2nd House

Hi,
What's the meaning of either planet in this house? They have to be the most confusing placements in my chart. None of the descriptions I've come across are accurate. Does someone mind offering an interpretation? Thanks

ETA: I just remembered that an astrologer here stated that a 2nd-house moon can lead to income fluctuations. That sort of seems right, but then, don't most people over the years experience ebbs and flows there?

P.S. There is NO aspect between the planets.

What signs are they in and how are they aspected with other planets? This will greatly affect the interpretation.

Usually 2nd house placements indicate a person who cares a lot about money and possessions, and if the placements are afflicted can be greedy, materialistic, and/or boisterous about having money or nice things. They may be possessive over whatever they consider to be theirs, including people. I have also found these placements to have a strong sense of values, right and wrong ways to go about life (differing based on the planet involved, sign, and the chart as a whole).

The Moon, in my experience, is the least "in your face" about this and tends to show a deep need to feel financially secure and strongly held values about life. Again, the sign will affect the interpretation because what values are held and what constitutes security will be different with each sign. Pluto, however, is much more acquisitive and is driven to find security and gain possessions. Such a person may have a hard time letting go of their "possessions": stuff and people.

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Hello -

The house placement is important - 2nd house - how you acquire and hold onto things you value. The ruler of the 2nd is what decides how you initiate or enable such ventures.

Moon-Pluto - if conjunct - is also termed Hades Moon - which has a whole deeper meaning for the native on emotional - internal levels.

Both planets in the 2nd house would make you very concerned with the emotional value - regenerating life value of cash - goods - etc., but also with holding on for dear life to anything that you value - a philosophy, a person or concept that keeps you feeling safe and secure.

"Scarcity" would be the big concern for Moon & Pluto in 2nd - the fear and prevention of any perceived scarcity in your life is likely a motivating factor for you to feel safe in environment and emotions.

Kitchy said:

Hello -

The house placement is important - 2nd house - how you acquire and hold onto things you value. The ruler of the 2nd is what decides how you initiate or enable such ventures.

Moon-Pluto - if conjunct - is also termed Hades Moon - which has a whole deeper meaning for the native on emotional - internal levels.

Both planets in the 2nd house would make you very concerned with the emotional value - regenerating life value of cash - goods - etc., but also with holding on for dear life to anything that you value - a philosophy, a person or concept that keeps you feeling safe and secure.

"Scarcity" would be the big concern for Moon & Pluto in 2nd - the fear and prevention of any perceived scarcity in your life is likely a motivating factor for you to feel safe in environment and emotions.

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Thanks, this is starting to make a little more sense now. I'll have to think a little more on this, but what prompted the thread is the fact that I have an obsessive relationship with beauty. (Mind you, I don't actually put any effort into looking beautiful, but still.) I'll save the details for later.

magnolia8 said:

[...]what prompted the thread is the fact that I have an obsessive relationship with beauty. (Mind you, I don't actually put any effort into looking beautiful, but still.) I'll save the details for later.

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Well, it makes sense that you value beauty so much with a Libra (aesthetics) Moon in the 2nd (values).

I'd be interested in seeing your whole chart though, do you mind posting it? Usually if something assumes tremendous importance to a person, its themes will show up more than once in the chart. I wonder if your Sun and Venus are conjunct because this would certainly incline you to value beauty, especially as this Venus would be dispositor of your Moon.

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magnolia8 said:

You're good I do have a conjunction between the two.

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Well, you mentioned they were both square Pluto and in the same sign so the likelihood that they were conjunct was high.

Anyway, yes, there is a beauty-loving theme in your chart. First, the emphasis on Leo and Libra. I pay attention to how certain signs or planets increase or decrease qualities in other signs when they are found in the same chart since I have found this relevant in understanding personality and general approach to life. Strong Leo and Libra or Venus together tend to incline toward superficiality/over-concern with beauty since they are both concerned with appearances (no offense, I have Leo Rising and Sun conjunct Venus myself).

You also have Venus square Jupiter. This aspect tends to heighten a person's responses to beauty. The person considers beauty as not just something nice, but extremely important -- believing (Jupiter) in beauty (Venus). I have it in close orb. My SO also has it...the guy is already handsome but very concerned with his looks and appearances in general. I think he has more clothes than I do and he is our own personal interior decorator with an excellent eye for quality pieces. He is also Taurus Rising with chart ruler Venus in Leo retrograde conjunct the Sun so indeed, the love of beauty is strong in this one. Not that I mind, of course, with my aspects.

Not caring as much about your own appearance, I suspect that has to do with the 2nd and 8th (self-worth axis) being tied together by aspect.

sibylline said:

Well, you mentioned they were both square Pluto and in the same sign so the likelihood that they were conjunct was high.

Anyway, yes, there is a beauty-loving theme in your chart. First, the emphasis on Leo and Libra. I pay attention to how certain signs or planets increase or decrease qualities in other signs when they are found in the same chart since I have found this relevant in understanding personality and general approach to life. Strong Leo and Libra or Venus together tend to incline toward superficiality/over-concern with beauty since they are both concerned with appearances (no offense, I have Leo Rising and Sun conjunct Venus myself).

You also have Venus square Jupiter. This aspect tends to heighten a person's responses to beauty. The person considers beauty as not just something nice, but extremely important -- believing (Jupiter) in beauty (Venus). I have it in close orb. My SO also has it...the guy is already handsome but very concerned with his looks and appearances in general. I think he has more clothes than I do and he is our own personal interior decorator with an excellent eye for quality pieces. He is also Taurus Rising with chart ruler Venus in Leo retrograde conjunct the Sun so indeed, the love of beauty is strong in this one. Not that I mind, of course, with my aspects.

Not caring as much about your own appearance, I suspect that has to do with the 2nd and 8th (self-worth axis) being tied together by aspect.

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Oh yeah, I did mention that. LoL.
I figured my Leo/Libra influence was at least partly to blame; but the sheer obsessiveness is why I started looking at my 2nd house again. You are absolutely correct that I BELIEVE in beauty - more specifically, the POWER of beauty. I wish I could go into detail, but I don't feel comfortable.

Can you elaborate on that last part (2nd-8th house axis)? Why would this cause me to reject my own beauty? Which is what I do...neglect my beauty and fawn over others'. (Wait, did I just describe the nature of oppositions? To reject what's yours and project 'it' onto others?)

magnolia8 said:

Oh yeah, I did mention that. LoL.
I figured my Leo/Libra influence was at least partly to blame; but the sheer obsessiveness is why I started looking at my 2nd house again. You are absolutely correct that I BELIEVE in beauty - more specifically, the POWER of beauty.

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Oh, okay. Your Venus-Pluto is a part of this too then. I should have known when you mentioned "obsessive" earlier but you haven't been giving a lot of information.

Can you elaborate on that last part (2nd-8th house axis)? Why would this cause me to reject my own beauty? Which is what I do...neglect my beauty and fawn over others'. (Wait, did I just describe the nature of oppositions? To reject what's yours and project 'it' onto others?)

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Yes, and it gets more complex...

Like you know already the 2nd house is the house of values, resources. On a psychological level it represents your value and self-worth as an individual. The 8th house, on other hand, is about others' value and worth. People with Jupiter in the 8th can place too much value in others because Jupiter shows how and where we have faith, belief, hope, and trust.

So both Jupiter and Pluto square this Venus in the 11th house (society, among other things) creating a T-square. So what we have is tension between your value and others' value, surrounding beauty of people (Venus in 11th as apex).

I wish I could go into detail, but I don't feel comfortable.

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You should. Jupiter also shows where we are lucky and where we can benefit the most. So yours is begging you to open up to others (8th hse). Don't mind that secretive, paranoid Pluto.

Thanks, sibylline. I understand better now my Moon placement; Pluto, though, not so much. But I'll keep reserching.

Hmmm, Venus ruling 2nd house in 11th house is a good placement, it could show a lot of money coming in large and unexpected quantities perhaps! Too bad about Pluto and Moon in difficult aspects in that house, but when you look at the house, the important thing to look at is the ruler. The planets in the house indicate circumstances not state. For example my 10th house has and (both in Taurus) in it with only one good aspect (Venus Mercury) but overall it's badly aspected. The ruler of the house, Mars, is in a very good position (in Scorpio and angular) but badly aspected, meaning I will encounter a lot of hardships and problems but I will be able to sustain a good professional status. Planets in rulership can be very good at being self-sufficient. If say you had a T-square between 3 planets in rulership, that could mean that even after all those difficult situations you could be left intact, because the planets are strong there; they're powerful there. It's like a person who has this house who could be taken away from him, but he manages to deal with all of that and still keep that house because rulership is owning something.

Thanks, jollyzal. Sadly, I REALLY lack a good understanding of astrology so can't comment much. This topic is making me think of something else that's been a massive theme in my life. I think I'll make a topic on it.

Pluto IS power. You want to translate the beauty into money and power. But you have to learn to balance it...(opposition Jupiter).
Be careful.
LIN

Yes, Lin, that's part of my basic drive. I mentioned in my very first post here that the sex industry appealed to me. Not p-graphy, but things like escorting or exotic dancing. I like the idea of using my beauty and sexuality to make money. I know that I could, I'm just too shy and suspect I'd be completely destroyed (or severely ostracized) if I went down that route; so I won't. Modeling is the next best thing but not feasible due to major physical flaws (that I'm slowly and/or haphazardly working on). *sigh* Feels so very unfulfilling to be unable to express this side.

magnolia8 said:

Yes, Lin, that's part of my basic drive. I mentioned in my very first post here that the sex industry appealed to me. Not p-graphy, but things like escorting or exotic dancing. I like the idea of using my beauty and sexuality to make money. I know that I could, I'm just too shy and suspect I'd be completely destroyed (or severely ostracized) if I went down that route; so I won't. Modeling is the next best thing but not feasible due to major physical flaws (that I'm slowly and/or haphazardly working on). *sigh* Feels so very unfulfilling to be unable to express this side.

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I agree that you might be emotionally 'destroyed' [ your own words] and overwhelmed if you acted on that. The Moon and Pluto both have difficult squares to personal planets. The 2nd house is self esteem, self confidence and how you value yourself. Your Pluto may give you the urge to try the essence of Pluto in exchange for money. However the squares to Venus and Mercury tell me that you would likely feel judged and may have deep regrets later. It is your own Virgo rising that would perhaps be most judgmental.

In Karmic/Soul Astrology, the second house is the karmic gift house.
These are gifts brought forward from past lives.

The planets and sign on the cusp indicate resources available to you in this life for success, potential to be developed.

The Moon in this house indicates gifts associated with mothering and nurturing. Pluto indicates a deep understanding of the life cycles, healing and regeneration.

That said, these gifts may be somewhat complicated as you have a Hades Moon. This indicates past lives with complex issues around abandonment, trauma, rejection and guilt. These issues have given you the gifts of nurturing and healing.

I would like to add that a Moon/Pluto combination is a rare sign of a direct clairvoyant. Because it has been there since birth and comes so easily, you may take this skill for granted.

magnolia8;662562[B said:

]I thought self-esteem was represented by the Sun? And why would my Moon-Mercury square have anything to say? [/B]
That belief that I don't have much going outside of a nice face and a working vagina would, I suspect, intensify beyond my control. So, fear says don't do it.
I just realized that another, more conventional way this drive manifests is as a desire to marry wealthy, powerful men. I seem to think that I have the ability to attract such a man first and foremost because of my 'beauty.' This isn't completely unjustified, but whether it's something I want to actually pursue? I don't know.
Anyway, the older I get and the more squeezed I feel, the more I get tempted into going the other routes. I can't figure out what to do with myself. I wonder whether I'm just too lazy/cowardly to do the work to accomplish other goals, and that's why Plutonian sex stuff seems so appealing. LoL.

Woo, I rambled. Sorry.

edit: The fear of violence is another cause for concern. I seem to bring out the wrath in men. Desperation, too. This isn't to imply that this happens often, because it doesn't (although the 'pace' of these incidents picked up speed last year). An astrologer here did warn me that I could be a victim of a violent crime, too, so that doesn't help.

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'Self esteem' can be seen by many factors in one's birth chart. The Sun is one main indicator. But it is a combination of things. The lights, both the Sun and Moon are major factors. And also certain houses indicate various issues concerning 'self' esteem.'

The 2nd house has to do with 'self worth'----which is connected to self esteem. The 2nd house is our values. How much do we value ourselves? What principles and beliefs do we live by?

Here is a good excerpt to explain it:


http://vedicartandscience.com/vedic-astrology-the-second-house-value-of-the-self/
"The second house is where we see the issue of self-worth playing out in someone’s life. Based on how we feel about ourselves, we ask for a certain wage from our job and expect a certain level of self-respect from others. This level of self-respect will also be a standard we express through our speech, our diet, our manner of dress. As our identity evolves, these things will change. When we are younger, we inherit the values of our childhood. Our identity and values are an expression of how we were raised. But as we get older, and our truthful self becomes more clear to us, our values change and the choices they imply also change."


You asked why your Moon/Mercury would have anything to say. Your Moon is in the 2nd house of 'self worth.' Thus you are seemingly emotionally invested in your own sense of worth. Self Respect is vital when Moon/Pluto inhabit the 2nd. . It might be an emotional or sensitive issue for you.

The square to mercury might indicate that it is an internal struggle---internal battle in which you are kind of hard on yourself. Your emotional self and you're mental self are in conflict concerning 2nd house issues. You emotional self says ' why not just rely upon my beauty/sexuality/charms to bring in more revenue?

But the square to your chart ruler may have doubts about that. You may become your own harshest critic if so.

I have Cancer in the 2nd house so I sort of understand this placement personally. It just means that you're very emotional about your immediate environment and all of the resources you accumulate to survive. Pluto here means that your resource management and financial stability will always be undergoing transformation. In short, your emotional relationship to your possessions is very strong, and this relationship may become dangerously obsessive and entail OCD and paranoia about security, resulting in potential psychosomatic illness if you experience financial problems. This is especially true if you do not have a strong 6th and/or 10th house.

How ironic that this thread was bumped on the same day that my financial security became a MAJOR concern. I'll respond to everyone individually at another time, but I thank you all for your insight.