Borderline Personality and Astrological Influences

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smiles4miles333

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BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER and ASTROLOGY
WHAT ASTROLOGICAL INFLUENCES WOULD BEST BE ASSOCIATED WITH BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER???

HERE ARE MY THOUGHTS..

BRIEF INFO ABOUT ME:
I am a Sagittarius Sun/Mars.
BUT i have a Scorpio Stellium..my Venus, Mercury, Jupiter, Pluto and other planetary/asteroid aspects.
MY MOON(emotions)-Taurus.
BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER and ASTROLOGY-

I would like to mention-Saturn freezes/blocks whatever it touches.
And Chiron-wounds whatever it touches.

For Example- You have your 1st house/The Ascendant. This includes your personality, your natural demeanor, and outlook on life. Whatever may effect that beginning of life can hurt later.
Psychologists state, “Whatever trauma we experience in our childhood will affect us into adulthood.”
Now if Saturn..is in your 1st house, I could see it freezing/blocking that first part of life. Maybe abuse, you didnt have a ‘normal’ childhood, you moved a lot and couldn’t adjust, or something similar.

Most people with Borderline Personality Disorder have had abuse in their childhood.
I would think anyone with an aspect that damages or wounds the 1st(your self), 4th(family life), possibly 7th(marriage/partnerships/relationships), and definitely your 8TH House(sexuality/transformation/psychology/addiction) would suffer from something related. The 12th house(subconscious/fears/deep emotions/Triggers)

Now look at the rulers of these and some of their traits…
-1st house- Ruler: Aries/Mars(Aggression)…Impulsive, aggressive, restless, motivated, very driven, and open to new experiences.

-4th house- Ruler: Cancer/Moon(Emotions)…Family-oriented, emotional, sensitive, intuitive and possessive when it comes to the few you love.

-7th house- Ruler: Libra/Venus(how you Love)...Socially inclined, narcissist at heart, You help mend/combine relationships, natural eye for beauty, gift of making others feel important.
-8th house- Ruler: Scorpio/Pluto(Transformation)…Emotional, Passionate, Persistant, very strong-willed(especially how others see you), but on the inside is a whole other turbulence. It’s like a layer upon layer, upon boxes inside a Labyrinth.

-12th house- Ruler: Pisces/Neptune(Delusions/Deceptions)…Intuitive, Very Changeable/Moody, Imaginative, Enormously influenced by surroundings,You look for good in others mostly because you dream of a perfect world.
Now think of all of those above^^^And how someone with Borderline Personality is. I would say all of those can be associated with this disorder.

BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER TRAITS-(some with an Astrological sign and an Example)

Extreme reactions—including panic, depression, rage, or frantic actions—to abandonment, whether real or perceived..
(ARIES..rage/frantic actions, CANCER-family/friends gone, LIBRA..no socialization, PISCES..real or perceived thoughts)

A pattern of intense and stormy relationships with family, friends, and loved ones, often veering from extreme closeness and love (idealization) to extreme dislike or anger (devaluation)
(SCORPIO..turbulent storm of emotions/no one proving their worth/trusting, CANCER/LIBRA..family-relationships, PISCES..when they realize the person of their dreams isnt that great, ARIES..why they are usually alone/lead others until they betray them)

Distorted and unstable self-image or sense of self, which can result in sudden changes in feelings, opinions, values, or plans and goals for the future (such as school or career choices)

Impulsive and often dangerous behaviors, such as spending sprees, unsafe sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, and binge eating
(ARIES, CANCER, LIBRA, SCORPIO, PISCES..pick your poison )

Recurring suicidal behaviors or threats or self-harming behavior, such as cutting

Intense and highly changeable moods, with each episode lasting from a few hours to a few days.
(WATER SIGNS…CANCER, SCORPIO, PISCES..and a dash of hot-headed ARIES)

Chronic feelings of emptiness and/or boredom
(ARIES..restless spirit/must-do-something attitude, SCORPIO/PISCES..depths of dispair/no one loves me/they dont understand me)

Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger

Having stress-related paranoid thoughts or severe dissociative symptoms, such as feeling cut off from oneself, observing oneself from outside the body, or losing touch with reality. (PISCES..but all of them are in this one..just depends which gets to them)

(Traits are from this site listed below)
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topic…ml#part_145389

AND that is my explanation!!! Enjoy :)
 
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nada-s

New member
Thanks for sharing, that's a very interesting explanation..

I have an Aries Sun in the 4th house and Cancer Moon in 8th house, with Pluto in my 11th house of friendships.
Also Saturn, Uranus and Neptune all in the 1st house squaring my Sun.
Chiron in Gemini in the 7th house as well.

And I relate a lot to almost all BPD symptoms, maybe on the more quiet side of BPD..
 
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Lin

Well-known member
There is NO way that one can pronounce someone as having BPD or any mental or emotional illness only from speculation regarding this or that planet in this or that house or aspects to them.

It's kind of like pornography. I know it when I see it.
IN the case of BPD You might know it if you see it...(the chart) ...and even then, it would probably be totally unethical for an astrologer to "diagnose" this condition. I wouldn't do it.
HOwever, if the person has been diagnosed and wants to discuss it with the astrologer, to find out why this condition is occurring in him or her, that would be ethical.

LIN
 
conspiracy theorist

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Well Lin, I personally need an instructional blurb prior to any viewing of any material involving naked human beings, so that I can ascertain if it is in fact pornography I am viewing.

In that light, it is good when our friend the OP can itemise such elements of a natal chart to determine borderline personality disorder, as this will assist me when partaking analysis of the chart(s) in question.
 
L

Lin

Well-known member
I don't know what your first sentence means.
My sentence should have had quotation marks....It's a famous quote...but can be applied to other things...especially birth charts.

As for "itemizing" or "isolating" components of a chart...in order to diagnose ANY emotional or mental disorder, I believe that is unethical to promulgate; especially since we don't know how the information would be used or who would take it seriously (as an actual diagnosis.)

It probably would be something a serious astrologer would work on as a research project....I would say studying around 50 charts of people who have been diagnosed with the disorder in question....would be necessary.

LIN

OK...I found it: U.S. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart famously said in his 1964 Order that he could not use words to describe pornography but “I know it when I see it.”

Just one more note:--according to Webster's Dictionary, in order for pornography to exist, neither nudity nor sex need be depicted...although most people think this might be counter intuitive.

Which is why, when interpreting a chart, it's a good idea to actually be fully knowledgeable about each component of the chart..and not make assumptions or jump to conclusions based on "popular definition." ESPECIALLY when dealing with health issues.
 
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ScorpioMaria

Well-known member
Maybe difficult aspects involving Pluto, or Scorpio planets/ascendant, involve a higher risk of borderline personality disorder?

Overly strong and destructive emotions, fear of change, betrayal, abandonment?

Possibly leading to obsessions, self-destructive tendencies?
 
L

Lin

Well-known member
Many things you see in a chart can....possibly....represent a tendency to neurosis, narcissism, phobia, self destructive tendencies or denial of reality...addiction...the possibilities are endless.

BUT....I have seen some really hard charts.....involving Pluto, Neptune, Moon, Mars...and combinations--even pointing to possible autistic tendencies of varying degrees.....but the person is NOT any of those things.
Their energy, even very negative, can and often IS diverted to other modes of behaviors.... often being very ambitious, hard worker, many hobbies, starting businesses... often being good at research, etc....

The one area the person may have some "issues" is interpersonal relationships...but that is not a mental disorder...it's a psychological issue usually stemming from childhood traumas and/or emotional abandonment and often inhibiting atmosphere in the home.

My point is that true mental disorders, if they are going to be studied astrological, should be done as a study as I suggested my previous post.
And trying to shortcut knowledge and wisdom is just lazy.
LIN :cool:
 
uranianplutonian

uranianplutonian

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neptune910 said:
i completely agree @ScorpioMaria i am also diagnosed with this and i have a scorpio ascendant, pluto in the first as well!
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Having a Scorpio Ascendant and Pluto in the First House does not make someone more prone to BPD. Look to afflictions of the Sun and the Moon, and a lack of easy aspects/help from the benefics. House placement of the Sun and/or Moon plays a role too. That said, BPD can't, and shouldn't be diagnosed using Astrology.


As for where BPD stems from:

From what people with BPD have shared with me about their early childhood experiences, and from literature I've read on the personality disorder, it stems from abandonment in early childhood (usually between the most crucial ages of 0-2 years old) by one parent or both parents. Abandonment is emotional and/or physical. The child's home environment is very volatile. The child usually feels a lot of pressure in the home environment, and is usually criticized a lot by one or both of their parents.

neptune910 said:
i think this is interesting because two people could have the same genetic predisposition to this disorder and lived through the same trauma, yet only one would develop this disorder. one of them might develop PTSD but not BPD.
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neptune910 said:
there is a theory that people who are more emotionally volatile by nature are more prone to developing a disorder like this, if they have gone through difficulties in childhood as well. a person who is naturally emotional with thin skin without the added predispositions and life experiences might just grow into an adult that is emotional, maybe sometimes a bit volatile or sensitive but still healthy and managing well
we can look at which aspects or signs or configurations might make someone be volatile so i would look at the first house as well and also the moon, mars and the family/childhood/relationship houses?
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BPD is a result of nurture (extreme lack of), not nature. Someone with supportive and loving parents isn't going to develop BPD.

there is a theory that people who are more emotionally volatile by nature are more prone to developing a disorder like this,
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Emotional volatility in someone stems from their inability to regulate their emotions, which is a product of the how they were treated by their parents growing up, and a product of what kind of home environment they grew up in. It is not by nature. However yes, "if they have gone through difficulties in childhood as well" is correct, but the difficulties in childhood are usually quite extreme (prolonged physical abuse, prolonged emotional and/or psychological abuse, and/or sexual abuse).

neptune910 said:
scorpios shadow side is generally linked to instability, strong emotions, obsessive behaviour and jealousy, so someone with scorpio in their chart might already be like this just by nature if they dont have anything else to balance out their behaviour, since everyone and every sign has a negative side
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neptune910 said:
negative and hurtful experiences would make those negative traits even stronger, maybe we could see this if the scorpio placements were afflicted in some way, or the moon/1h/ etc were also damaged, all of this in combination might actually show a disorder like this in the natal chart
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BPD is not a result of having planetary placements in Scorpio, nor is it necessarily a lack of the Earth element.

From what I have observed in the natal charts of people who fit the DSM–5 diagnostic criteria for BPD, their Moon is afflicted by one or more malefics, through a conjunction and/or square. If it's one malefic, it's usually a conjunction with Mars or a square to Mars. In one of the natal charts I have, the Moon is conjunct Algol as well. The Moon doesn't receive help from either of the benefics. If the Moon is conjunct Jupiter, then Jupiter inflates the issue.

In terms of the Sun, I've observed an affliction to the Sun by a malefic or malefics, usually Mars, Uranus, and/or Neptune, and the Sun receives no easy aspects/help from either of the benefics. I've also noticed that the North Node tends to be within 8º of the Sun.

None of the charts I've looked at of people who fit the DSM-5 diagnostic criteria for BPD have planetary placements in Scorpio, Scorpio Ascendant, or Pluto in the First House.


For a better understanding of BPD, I'm posting the DSM-5 diagnostic criteria for borderline personality disorder here (not to be used to diagnose):

The DSM-5 Criteria for Borderline Personality Disorder:​


To meet the criteria for Borderline Personality Disorder, five of nine symptoms must be present. They must be present in multiple contexts and cause significant suffering or impairment in relationships and overall functioning. The nine criteria of Borderline Personality Disorder include:

1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.

2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

4. Impulsivity in at least two potentially self-damaging areas (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating).

5. Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures or threats, or self-mutilating behavior.

6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and rarely more than a few days).

7. Chronic feelings of emptiness.

8. Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).

9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.

(https://neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/dsm-5-criteria-for-borderline-personality-disorder)
 
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uranianplutonian

uranianplutonian

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neptune910 said:
i am aware of everything you said and most if it i already said in my own post. i am diagnosed with this myself and have been in therapy for this for a long time and i havent said that having a scorpio rising or something automatically means one has bpd, that combined with other aspects and configurations can provide a clue in the chart of someone who is diagnosed with it, like i said.
as for your quote that bpd is a result of lack of nurture, i have already said that bpd stems from genetic predisposition and traumatic events in early childhood.
someone with loving and supporting parents could be getting abused by someone else, but obviously BPD stems from reoccurring childhood trauma, my
question was why one person with a traumatic childhood develops bpd and the other one with the same traumatic childhood doesnt, perhaps that person will only develop a form of PTSD or depression. it has been speculated by many therapists and people who have been diagnosed with BPD that children who are already very emotional and sensitive that grow up in a traumatic environment might be more prone to developing a cluster B disorder. it also depends on how the child has dealt with the trauma, if the trauma was internalized or if the child had a support system etc people who are more emotional by nature being traumatized repeatedly at an early age might turn into adults with a mental disorder which is characterized by having volatile emotions, instability, destructive behaviour etc

you cannot look at someone that fits the criteria for it and then assume they have this disorder, this disorder is very complex and the diagnosis for it is a very lengthy process and that is why i only looked at the chart of someone who i know has been diagnosed with it as well
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neptune910 said:
as for your quote that bpd is a result of lack of nurture, i have already said that bpd stems from genetic predisposition and traumatic events in early childhood.
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There isn't enough reliable research to conclude that BPD ~also stems from genetics. However, the research is strong in terms of it stemming from early childhood trauma.

my question was why one person with a traumatic childhood develops bpd and the other one with the same traumatic childhood doesnt, perhaps that person will only develop a form of PTSD or depression.
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We can't conclude, without being there, that two people experienced the exact same trauma when they were children. Not to mention, the nature of trauma and disassociation would make it difficult to gather reliable data for this kind of research, due to memories being lost.

it has been speculated by many therapists and people who have been diagnosed with BPD that children who are already very emotional and sensitive that grow up in a traumatic environment might be more prone to developing a cluster B disorder.
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I'm not sure what is meant by "children who are already very emotional and sensitive ..."

Children are emotional for a reason. Children can't articulate themselves as well as adults can, so the way they do so is through their emotions.
The mother is supposed to be attuned to her child in order to meet her child's emotional needs and physical needs. If mother is not attuned to child, emotions will either turn off, or become heightened.
Also, children are sensitive by default. Like sponges, children absorb everything going on around them, including the state of their mother and her emotions, her responses to them, etc.

it also depends on how the child has dealt with the trauma, if the trauma was internalized or if the child had a support system etc
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Yes. I agree with this statement. A support system is crucial. Might be able to see a native’s support system in their natal chart. Haven’t looked into it much, but now I’m curious.

neptune910 said:
you cannot look at someone that fits the criteria for it and then assume they have this disorder, this disorder is very complex and the diagnosis for it is a very lengthy process and that is why i only looked at the chart of someone who i know has been diagnosed with it as well
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Only a psychologist, or a psychiatrist can make this diagnosis. Indeed this disorder is complex, and especially in terms of treatment, however if five of nine symptoms are present, then the person fits the criteria for borderline personality disorder, and if seen by a psychologist or a psychiatrist, will be diagnosed with BPD. It is likely that there will be an overlap in symptoms associated with other disorders like depression, narcissistic personality disorder, etc., too.

From what I've observed in terms of Astrology though, this personality disorder mostly has to do with the Sun and the Moon.
 
uranianplutonian

uranianplutonian

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neptune910 said:
theres actually research which concludes that having a family member with this disorder makes you 5 times higher at risk for developing it yourself. its probably simply related to a family history of trauma
i dont think ive seen a case where someone didnt experience anything traumatic in their childhood and still developed this disorder though

as for comparisons, you could easily compare siblings who grew up in the same environment and experienced the same things, yet often times even if all of them are struggling only one of them has a disorder like this. even if its not the exact same experiences that to me still stands out

children are sensitive by nature, but already at a young age children cope differently with their environment. like me even as a young child i would cry very easily, i would be physically violent as well and felt very easily hurt. even teachers would say that i am a very sensitive child cause i was the one that cried the fastest and most at school lol. if i compare myself to my childhood friends at the time, they handled things much better than me, i would often run away in the middle of class because i felt distressed, none of my classmates were like this. its not possible for me to have a disorder like this at that age, perhaps its also because i grew up in a different environment than my classmates but i do believe i was much more sensitive just by nature, children are products of their environments but the kids i grew up with werent like me

i actually feel like the support system can be seen by the moon, and yes only professionals can diagnose this disorder and its gonna take a long time to do so, to be honest thats why i disagree with what you said about the criteria, even if someone meets 5 symptoms that person might just have CPTSD, or bipolar disorder, a different cluster B disorder, etc. so i dont think someone will be diagnosed just by fitting 5 symptoms

the thing is that bpd symptoms are actually things many ordinary people can relate to. yet the way they are expressed are completely different in someone that has bpd. someone might look at the bpd criteria and think, being moody or binge eating or drinking a lot means they have bpd. for example, bpd “moodiness” which many people think they might relate to, in an BPD individual this actually often results in violent episodes and physical harm of self or others.

bpd symptoms are often things that all people feel or do from time to time, which is why people nowadays think many fit the criteria when they actually dont, the thing is is that these symptoms are amped up to the extremes, and they also need to be experienced for a very long period of time and disrupt the individuals life significantly which makes it an actual disorder. thats why its so crucial to get professionally diagnosed

i can see the sun and moon being involved, especially the moon since to me that signifies the support system and emotional state as well as childhood experiences and also the houses of identity, childhood and relationships
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Thank you for your response.

I don’t think we’ll agree, so we can agree to disagree. :joyful:
 
S

ScorpioMaria

Well-known member
ScorpioMaria said:
Maybe difficult aspects involving Pluto, or Scorpio planets/ascendant, involve a higher risk of borderline personality disorder?

Overly strong and destructive emotions, fear of change, betrayal, abandonment?

Possibly leading to obsessions, self-destructive tendencies?
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No one ever said that Pluto or Scorpio cause BPD, only that they imply or reflect a higher risk of BPD

In any astrology book, the essence of difficult Pluto and Scorpio aspects is the often well-founded fear of change, betrayal, abandonment, loss of control, leading to extreme emotions, control issues, destructive and reckless tendencies, etc, the very essence of BPD.

en.wikipedia.org

Borderline personality disorder - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Pluto and Scorpio planets, poorly aspected, are well known for intense fear, but other difficult signs/planets are possible, maybe involving Uranus.
Archetypes are correct, or else they would not be archetypes in the first place, especially for the past 2,000 years.
Scorpio has a certain reputation for the past 2,000 years, Pluto only for the past 100.

The natal chart reflects heredity, family, environment, past, present, and future,
which is different for every individual, because every individual is different.
Of course there are many possibilities, just as the 12th house represents thousands of possibilities;
nonetheless, we are allowed to name some of the possibilities.
 
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uranianplutonian

uranianplutonian

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ScorpioMaria said:
No one ever said that Pluto or Scorpio cause BPD, only that they imply or reflect a higher risk of BPD

In any astrology book, the essence of difficult Pluto and Scorpio aspects is the often well-founded fear of change, betrayal, abandonment, loss of control, leading to extreme emotions, control issues, destructive and reckless tendencies, etc, the very essence of BPD.

en.wikipedia.org

Borderline personality disorder - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Pluto and Scorpio planets, poorly aspected, are well known for intense fear, but other difficult signs/planets are possible, maybe involving Uranus.
Archetypes are correct, or else they would not be archetypes in the first place, especially for the past 2,000 years.
Scorpio has a certain reputation for the past 2,000 years, Pluto only for the past 100.

The natal chart reflects heredity, family, environment, past, present, and future,
which is different for every individual, because every individual is different.
Of course there are many possibilities, just as the 12th house represents thousands of possibilities;
nonetheless, we are allowed to name some of the possibilities.
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Having planetary placements in Scorpio doesn’t imply a higher risk of BPD.

You’d need a sample size of over 20 to even begin to have any kind of reliability in your research, and even then, the sample size would need to be bigger.

[Deleted attacking personal comments. - Moderator]

uranianplutonian said:
For a better understanding of BPD, I'm posting the DSM-5 diagnostic criteria for borderline personality disorder here (not to be used to diagnose):

The DSM-5 Criteria for Borderline Personality Disorder:​


To meet the criteria for Borderline Personality Disorder, five of nine symptoms must be present. They must be present in multiple contexts and cause significant suffering or impairment in relationships and overall functioning. The nine criteria of Borderline Personality Disorder include:

1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.

2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

4. Impulsivity in at least two potentially self-damaging areas (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating).

5. Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures or threats, or self-mutilating behavior.

6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and rarely more than a few days).

7. Chronic feelings of emptiness.

8. Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).

9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.

(https://neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/dsm-5-criteria-for-borderline-personality-disorder)
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uranianplutonian

uranianplutonian

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ScorpioMaria said:
we are allowed to name some of the possibilities.
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The generalizations are cringe. Reminds me of the Astrology of the Moscow Murders thread and how Scorpio was pinned by one member for murders as a result of generalizations about the Zodiac sign, meanwhile had no research to back it up.

Unless you have a sample size of over 20 folk with five of nine of the symptoms of BPD, then you shouldn’t be assuming it has anything to do with Scorpio.

Other Zodiac signs have shadow sides too, as well as fears and vices.
 
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Osamenor

Osamenor

Staff member
All,

Repeated personal attacks have been posted in this thread. I closed it to clean up. Going forward, this thread is open ONLY for discussion about the possible astrological factors involved in borderline personality disorder. It is NOT open for statements about other posters. Focus on the problem, NOT the person.

If there are further attacks, this thread will be closed permanently.

Warning,
Osamenor
 
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ScorpioMaria

Well-known member
Ancient archetype and reasonable generalisation is valuable and correct, or else there would be no astrology :)

Generalisation is necessary, "research" is scarce, ancient, mediaeval, modern tradition is plentiful :)

Astrology is not scientific, adjectives are not scientific or supported by sample size, research, clinical trials, peer review, etc

Generalisations/archetypes/adjectives are validated when an astrologer correctly describes someone they do not know, have never met

Unfortunately the ancients and moderns have few nice things to say about Scorpio until the 20th century,
fearfulness, power/control issues, immoderate and excessive behaviour and emotional reactions, destructive behaviour and reactions are common

The written description of poor aspects involving Scorpio Sun/Moon/Ascendant/Venus/Mars, and poor aspects involving Pluto, seems similar to BPD
of course other signs and planets are possible and common with mental illness, such as Sun/Moon/Ascendant/Uranus;
Uranus typically involves instability, while afflicted Pluto or afflicted Scorpio Sun/Moon/Ascendant typically involve toxic fear, power/control issues

The US "official" definition of BPD is so vague and useless that most mentally ill, self-destructive people can have BPD

Mental illnesses used to be much more narrowly defined; this vague, broad, useless definition does not help sufferers or astrologers

Also US official definitions change regularly, while mainstream astrology is ancient and remarkably consistent :)
 
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uranianplutonian

uranianplutonian

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ScorpioMaria said:
Ancient archetype and reasonable generalisation is valuable and correct, or else there would be no astrology :)

Generalisation is necessary, "research" is scarce, ancient, mediaeval, modern tradition is plentiful :)

Astrology is not scientific, adjectives are not scientific or supported by sample size, research, clinical trials, peer review, etc

Generalisations/archetypes/adjectives are validated when an astrologer correctly describes someone they do not know, have never met

Unfortunately the ancients and moderns have few nice things to say about Scorpio until the 20th century,
fearfulness, power/control issues, immoderate and excessive behaviour and emotional reactions, destructive behaviour and reactions are common

The written description of poor aspects involving Scorpio Sun/Moon/Ascendant/Venus/Mars, and poor aspects involving Pluto, seems similar to BPD
of course other signs and planets are possible and common with mental illness, such as Sun/Moon/Ascendant/Uranus;
Uranus typically involves instability, while afflicted Pluto or afflicted Scorpio Sun/Moon/Ascendant typically involve toxic fear, power/control issues

The US "official" definition of BPD is so vague and useless that most mentally ill, self-destructive people can have BPD

Mental illnesses used to be much more narrowly defined; this vague, broad, useless definition does not help sufferers or astrologers

Also US official definitions change regularly, while mainstream astrology is ancient and remarkably consistent :)
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My main point was/is that you cannot pigeonhole a Zodiac sign, such as Scorpio, or a placement/placements, such as Pluto in the First house, as being at higher risk of BPD, without having conducted reliable research to come to this conclusion. I.e., You can’t say there’s a high risk without having done reliable research first. Research has to have a sample size of 20 or more people to even begin to resemble the slightest bit of reliability.

“The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) is the handbook used by health care professionals in the United States and much of the world as the authoritative guide to the diagnosis of mental disorders.” (https://www.psychiatry.org/psychiat...tains the,to communicate about their patients)
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
uranianplutonian said:
My main point was/is that you cannot pigeonhole a Zodiac sign, such as Scorpio, or a placement/placements, such as Pluto in the First house, as being at higher risk of BPD, without having conducted reliable research to come to this conclusion. I.e., You can’t say there’s a high risk without having done reliable research first.
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makes sense :)
uranianplutonian said:
Research has to have a sample size of 20 or more people to even begin to resemble the slightest bit of reliability.
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even a sample size of 250 MINIMUM is meagre when one considers
a global populations of more than seven billion

uranianplutonian said:
“The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) is the handbook used by health care professionals in the United States and much of the world as the authoritative guide to the diagnosis of mental disorders.” (https://www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists/practice/dsm/frequently-asked-questions#:~:text=DSM-5-TR contains the,to communicate about their patients)
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uranianplutonian said:
I’m not going to suddenly change my mind and say, ‘oh yes, it’s completely valid to make a claim that
there’s a higher risk of A if B, without having done reliable research to draw such a correlation.’
So, it’s pointless for me to continue this discussion.
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.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
.

Notice that this thread was started in April 2016
and has had zero responses for seven years - until now - April 2023 :)

smiles4miles333 said:
BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER and ASTROLOGY
WHAT ASTROLOGICAL INFLUENCES WOULD BEST BE ASSOCIATED WITH BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER???

HERE ARE MY THOUGHTS..

BRIEF INFO ABOUT ME:
I am a Sagittarius Sun/Mars.
BUT i have a Scorpio Stellium..my Venus, Mercury, Jupiter, Pluto and other planetary/asteroid aspects.
MY MOON(emotions)-Taurus.
BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER and ASTROLOGY-

I would like to mention-Saturn freezes/blocks whatever it touches.
And Chiron-wounds whatever it touches.

For Example- You have your 1st house/The Ascendant. This includes your personality, your natural demeanor, and outlook on life. Whatever may effect that beginning of life can hurt later.
Psychologists state, “Whatever trauma we experience in our childhood will affect us into adulthood.”
Now if Saturn..is in your 1st house, I could see it freezing/blocking that first part of life. Maybe abuse, you didnt have a ‘normal’ childhood, you moved a lot and couldn’t adjust, or something similar.

Most people with Borderline Personality Disorder have had abuse in their childhood.
I would think anyone with an aspect that damages or wounds the 1st(your self), 4th(family life), possibly 7th(marriage/partnerships/relationships), and definitely your 8TH House(sexuality/transformation/psychology/addiction) would suffer from something related. The 12th house(subconscious/fears/deep emotions/Triggers)

Now look at the rulers of these and some of their traits…
-1st house- Ruler: Aries/Mars(Aggression)…Impulsive, aggressive, restless, motivated, very driven, and open to new experiences.

-4th house- Ruler: Cancer/Moon(Emotions)…Family-oriented, emotional, sensitive, intuitive and possessive when it comes to the few you love.

-7th house- Ruler: Libra/Venus(how you Love)...Socially inclined, narcissist at heart, You help mend/combine relationships, natural eye for beauty, gift of making others feel important.
-8th house- Ruler: Scorpio/Pluto(Transformation)…Emotional, Passionate, Persistant, very strong-willed(especially how others see you), but on the inside is a whole other turbulence. It’s like a layer upon layer, upon boxes inside a Labyrinth.

-12th house- Ruler: Pisces/Neptune(Delusions/Deceptions)…Intuitive, Very Changeable/Moody, Imaginative, Enormously influenced by surroundings,You look for good in others mostly because you dream of a perfect world.
Now think of all of those above^^^And how someone with Borderline Personality is. I would say all of those can be associated with this disorder.

BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER TRAITS-(some with an Astrological sign and an Example)

Extreme reactions—including panic, depression, rage, or frantic actions—to abandonment, whether real or perceived..
(ARIES..rage/frantic actions, CANCER-family/friends gone, LIBRA..no socialization, PISCES..real or perceived thoughts)

A pattern of intense and stormy relationships with family, friends, and loved ones, often veering from extreme closeness and love (idealization) to extreme dislike or anger (devaluation)
(SCORPIO..turbulent storm of emotions/no one proving their worth/trusting, CANCER/LIBRA..family-relationships, PISCES..when they realize the person of their dreams isnt that great, ARIES..why they are usually alone/lead others until they betray them)

Distorted and unstable self-image or sense of self, which can result in sudden changes in feelings, opinions, values, or plans and goals for the future (such as school or career choices)

Impulsive and often dangerous behaviors, such as spending sprees, unsafe sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, and binge eating
(ARIES, CANCER, LIBRA, SCORPIO, PISCES..pick your poison )

Recurring suicidal behaviors or threats or self-harming behavior, such as cutting

Intense and highly changeable moods, with each episode lasting from a few hours to a few days.
(WATER SIGNS…CANCER, SCORPIO, PISCES..and a dash of hot-headed ARIES)

Chronic feelings of emptiness and/or boredom
(ARIES..restless spirit/must-do-something attitude, SCORPIO/PISCES..depths of dispair/no one loves me/they dont understand me)

Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger

Having stress-related paranoid thoughts or severe dissociative symptoms, such as feeling cut off from oneself, observing oneself from outside the body, or losing touch with reality. (PISCES..but all of them are in this one..just depends which gets to them)

(Traits are from this site listed below)
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topic…ml#part_145389

AND that is my explanation!!! Enjoy :)
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