VOID in the area of election astrology in this forum

dhundhun · Sep 25, 2014

There seems to be total VOID in the area of election astrology. No one is able to take a call of election requests.

Astrology could be more helpful if some one elects time to apply for a job instead of asking horary "When will I get job?".

Election Astrology can of of more help than Natal or Horary.

I'd suggest forum member to give some thought on it and change orientation if my suggestion helps.

Kaiousei no Senshi · Nov 3, 2014

This is an interesting topic and I'm going to perform some necrourgy on this thread to attempt to discuss this a little bit.

The problem with electional in a forum type situation is several fold, but I'm really only going to focus on three main points. I agree with you, dhundhun, that electional astrology would be a nice focus shift from the normal onslaught of drab, repetitive horaries that the board gets, but it comes with its own disadvantages.

The first is that the branch is still relatively obscure and many people don't know of it and astrologers don't know how to do it. Even in the larger astrological community (outside of this forum, at conferences and whatnot) it is difficult to find people who are practitioners of electional. This is also the exact reason why the board sees so little activity from users asking for assistance.

The second has to do with philosophical issues that aren't really addressed because no one really considers the implications of electing. These issues are hashed out in the introductions to many classical electional texts. While I'm grateful that it seems like modern electional astrologers have adopted al-Imrani's stance, I feel they do so for the wrong reasons; being ignorant of the controversy over rooting at all.

Thirdly, and (sadly) the most difficult obstacle to surmount is that elections just take too **** long. The only legitimate way to criticize someone else's election is to find a better one, and that's just a big drain on time so many individuals just don't feel the impetus to put that much effort into something. Giving a list of critiques to a chart is completely unhelpful, and moving charts around to find a better election (especially since it seems most users here only use astro.com) is tedious and unrewarding.

A fourth issue is that of ownership. It's easy to passively ask a horary and just accept or not accept the answer that you're given (especially since advice is rare). It's a different monster entirely to take responsibility for an election.

I do think it would be great if the electional board were more lively with actual electing, but there are a lot of obstacles to that becoming the norm. Personally, I would love to help someone navigating an election, but I cringe at the thought of electing even when a client requests it. Does anyone have any ideas of how to make this more common?

JUPITERASC · Nov 3, 2014

Kaiousei no Senshi said:
This is an interesting topic and I'm going to perform some necrourgy on this thread to attempt to discuss this a little bit.

The problem with electional in a forum type situation is several fold, but I'm really only going to focus on three main points. I agree with you, dhundhun, that electional astrology would be a nice focus shift from the normal onslaught of drab, repetitive horaries that the board gets, but it comes with its own disadvantages.

The first is that the branch is still relatively obscure and many people don't know of it and astrologers don't know how to do it. Even in the larger astrological community (outside of this forum, at conferences and whatnot) it is difficult to find people who are practitioners of electional. This is also the exact reason why the board sees so little activity from users asking for assistance.

The second has to do with philosophical issues that aren't really addressed because no really considers the implications of electing. These issues are hashed out in the introductions to many classical electional texts. While I'm grateful that it seems like modern electional astrologers have adopted al-Imrani's stance, I feel they do so for the wrong reasons; being ignorant of the controversy over rooting at all.

Thirdly, and (sadly) the most difficult obstacle to surmount is that elections just take too **** long. The only legitimate way to criticize someone else's election is to find a better one, and that's just a big drain on time so many individuals just don't feel the impetus to put that much effort into something. Giving a list of critiques to a chart is completely unhelpful, and moving charts around to find a better election (especially since it seems most users here only use astro.com) is tedious and unrewarding.

A fourth issue is that of ownership. It's easy to passively ask a horary and just accept or not accept the answer that you're given (especially since advice is rare). It's a different monster entirely to take responsibility for an election.

I do think it would be great if the electional board were more lively with actual electing, but there are a lot of obstacles to that becoming the norm. Personally, I would love to help someone navigating an election, but I cringe at the thought of electing even when a client requests it. Does anyone have any ideas of how to make this more common?

Certainly, the issue of RESPONSIBILITY for an election is major

More discussion of charts of public events that have been arranged for some future time may be of interest
such as for example
the opening of a new musical on Broadway or some other venue,
maybe in France or Australia :smile:

Inline · Nov 4, 2014

Kaiousei no Senshi said:
This is an interesting topic and I'm going to perform some necrourgy on this thread to attempt to discuss this a little bit....but

.......It's easy to passively ask a horary and just accept or not accept the answer that you're given (especially since advice is rare). It's a different monster entirely to take responsibility for an election.

Does anyone have any ideas of how to make this more common?

Ja, i do but first i'd like to explain a bit...Electional astrology is different from horary....from horary, the next step for an astrologer (in my opinion) is to take a step toward electional astrology (‘event’astrology) where you then attempt to choose the best moment to act.

Horary astrologers search for the answer to a question based on the time the question was asked.
Electional astrologers seek to find the best period of time which will result in the best outcome, of an event being planned for example.

In the past electional astrology was used to predict wars.
Today people prefer to ask electional astrologers when to buy lotto tickets….but if it is not in your natal chart to become rich suddenly, not even electional astrology can help....

I prefer however, to use event astrology (event charts) for things that have passed but are still in progress… i try to predict the possible outcome to that event....as in Forensic Astrology or Sports Astrology….or even Medical Astrology…?

Because i believe that anything that has a beginning and is still in progress, you should be able to interpret the outcome using an event chart... because in my opinion that is what astrologers do….predict.

JUPITERASC · Nov 4, 2014

Inline said:
Ja, i do but first i'd like to explain a bit...Electional astrology is different from horary....from horary, the next step for an astrologer (in my opinion) is to take a step toward electional astrology (‘event’astrology) where you then attempt to choose the best moment to act.

Horary astrologers search for the answer to a question based on the time the question was asked.
Electional astrologers seek to find the best period of time which will result in the best outcome, of an event being planned for example.

In the past electional astrology was used to predict wars.
Today people prefer to ask electional astrologers when to buy lotto tickets….but if it is not in your natal chart to become rich suddenly, not even electional astrology can help....

I prefer however, to use event astrology (event charts)
for things that have passed
but are still in progress…

i try to predict the possible outcome to that event....
as in Forensic Astrology or Sports Astrology….
or even Medical Astrology…?

Because i believe that anything that has a beginning and is still in progress,
you should be able to interpret the outcome using an event chart...
because in my opinion that is what astrologers do….predict.

Interesting discussion and I have an example that may be of interest to you
If for example the fatal shot was captured on a 911 call
and
the Fatal shot is therefore timed precisely as having occurred at
19:16:55 evening of Sunday 26 February 2012 Sanford Florida
and since the case is currently being investigated by Department of Justice
with a hearing of evidence scheduled for 09:00am tomorrow, Wednesday 4 November 2014
as to whether the victim's civil rights were violated

So then, according to your studies,
can an event chart of the shot that is clearly heard on the 911 call
then show current events that remain ongoing
now two years and nine months having passed after the event ?
particularly with reference to holding the killer accountable for the killing

JUPITERASC · Nov 4, 2014

CHART OF THE EVENT IN QUESTION NOW ATTACHED :smile:

Inline · Nov 4, 2014

JUPITERASC said:
Interesting discussion and I have an example that may be of interest to you

.....So then, according to your studies, can an event chart of the shot that is clearly heard on the 911 call then show current events that remain ongoing now two years and nine months having passed after the event ?

particularly with reference to holding the killer accountable for the killing

Yes, that is what i believe is possible.

Thank you for the event chart. I prefer to use Placidus only because that is what i'm used to, and what i've been using for my interpretations recently, so i also posted an event chart.

The most important thing to start is:

a) firstly, be sure of the timing of the event. For that reason, i use the official police timeline as my first choice. Do you know if this timing for the fired shot is being used in the official time by the police because it's necessary intrepret the chart's viability?

b) secondly, the viability of the chart is checked. By looking at the information we already know about the attack, we check this against the info in the chart - does the event chart match the events? If it does we can continue.

I don't know anything about this attack, so am i even close - some more information would be a help. I'll get back soon.....

EDIT: event chart, i was thinking the US 7.16am, not european 19.16 pm. The chart now Jup in 8th, Mars in 12th conj ASC.

JUPITERASC · Nov 4, 2014

Inline said:
Yes, that is what i believe is possible.

Thank you for the event chart. I prefer to use Placidus only because that is what i'm used to, and what i've been using for my interpretations recently, so i also posted an event chart....see below.

The most important thing to start is:

a) firstly, be sure of the timing of the event. For that reason, i use the official police timeline as my first choice. Do you know if this timing for the fired shot is being used in the official time by the police because it's necessary intrepret the chart's viability?

b) secondly, the viability of the chart is checked. By looking at the information we already know about the attack, we check this against the info in the chart - does the event chart match the events? If it does we can continue.

Looking at my uploaded event chart using Placidus (just quickly because i'm still at work i'll get onto it later!)...the first thing i notice, Mars conj Virgo DC (representing the attacker) and DC ruler Merc in the 1st house near the subject ASC Pisces.

ASC ruler Jupiter is located in the 2nd, the house of possessions.

When an angular ruler is in the 2nd house of belongings,
it is important to study which planets aspect the house cusp
to determine which possessions in this event might play a role,
money for example.

It is beginning to look this chart might be viable if the event indicates a violent attacker near the subject, with possessions on them, that is of importance in this event...

I don't know anything about this attack, so am i even close - some more information would be a help. I'll get back soon.....

Thanks for those interesting comments

Killer George Zimmerman profited remarkably in a financial sense from the killing
by receiving massive amounts of money
via a website that he set up to receive donations from wellwishers http://gawker.com/5919445/who-donated-130000-to-george-zimmerman

'.....Consider the role money played in the narrative. It seems the most important factor was financial support from others. According to Forbes contributor Kelly Phillips Erb, during July 2012, around $200,000 dollars was raised for Zimmerman’s defense through a charitable website of sorts set up in his name George’s wife, Shellie, claimed at the time that Zimmermans had no means to adequately fund a defense team for murder trial. Though prosecution eventually argued against that claim and successfully moved to revoke the defendant’s bail in the process, the money that was raised was still put to good use. $150,000 of the money that was donated was placed in a trust fund for the attorneys, $30,000 was used so that Zimmerman could move away from his home and the scene of the crime in Sanford, Florida, and $20,000 was set aside for living expenses.....'

'.....So that amount of money, the 200k, covers what Zimmerman initially had. But how did he continue amassing funds going further? $200,000 can’t possibly be enough to pay a defense team while fighting a second-degree murder charge, right? And that is the reason that a separate site, GZdefensefund.com, was set up in June of 2012. Reporter Rob Abcarian stated that, Zimmerman’s living expenses throughout the trial, cost an estimated $30,000 per month.
According to these numbers in conjunction with the time between Zimmerman being charged in May 2012 and the trial concluding in July 2013, covering a span of 14 months, we can assume that it cost Zimmerman just over $400,000 to get through the whole trial using donations....'

By the way, prior to the killing George Zimmerman was deeply in debt
and having spent all of the donations
currently remains in even deeper debt

Lead attorney Mark O’Mara amassed huge success in drawing donations through blogging, Twitter and the use of PayPal. Given the precedent he set, there may be a day it becomes common practice for defendants to appeal to others for financial support, in hopes of raising the hundreds of thousands of dollars that George Zimmerman was able to acquire, funding his 14-month long court case. http://elitedaily.com/news/business/the-money-side-how-did-george-zimmerman-pay-for-his-defense/

Zarathu · Nov 4, 2014

We have seen elections for starting business and weddings and operations, but like Kai says you have to spend an lot of time with an ephemeris trying to match up the rules for electional astrology and dates that it will work. And for most of these you have to exclude anything that is not between 8 am-5 pm, since no one will do certain things at 3 AM.

Its sort of like trying to buy lottery tickets for the best luck times, which is a kind of election, but not based on classical electional principals. Some of the best times are a 2AM but good luck finding store open at 2 AM to sell them to you even if you do want to get up just to buy a ticket.

One other thing that I didn't see mentioned is my belief that electional only actually works when your life doesn't have something else scheduled for you.

I don't know how many times I have given (paying) clients an appropriate electional time for a wedding, or a business start, or a surgery, only to have some event step in an require it at a time of the LIFE's Choosing.

JUPITERASC · Nov 4, 2014

Now for a very basic information/summary of events
so you can check whether the chart is consistent

Chronology of events February 2012

19 February 2012
Trayvon Martin and his father Tracy
travel to Sanford, Florida from Miami
where they stay with Tracy Martin's fiancee.
She rents a townhome in the Retreat at Twin Lakes development.
Trayvon's parents Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin divorced
years ago

26 February 2012
At an unverified time, Trayvon Martin, Junior Schoolboy minor,
who had celebrated his 17th birthday just three weeks earlier
walks from the home where he is staying to a nearby 7-Eleven.

6:24:18 PM
- As shown by a store CCTV, Martin purchases a bag of Skittles
and an AriZona Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail
often described in media and at protests as AriZona iced tea.

6:54 – 7:12 - Martin has an 18-minute cell phone call with a girl reported to be his girlfriend.
She is in fact Rachel Jeantel, a close schoolfriend from kindergarten days, not a girlfriend.
The call gets disconnected.

The police did not get there that fast according to these two witnesses
who are resident in a house outside which - or yards away from -
where the killing occurred. The witnesses heard what sounded like whimpering,
heard a shot, raced out of their house
and immediately "saw George Zimmerman on his knees straddling Trayvon Martin
with his hands on Trayvon Martins back".
They thought "he could not have been the shooter or he would have run"
and assumed he was helping whoever had been shot.
Interestingly, the witnesses also saw George Zimmerman "walking back and forth away from
and then back to the body while holding his hands to his head".
The two witnesses also say that, based on the location of the callers making the first 911 calls reporting an altercation
- that the initial confrontation must have begun at a house two or three doors down from where the killing took place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZpsCc8IRHY&feature=related

Detective Serino interviewing Zimmerman days after the shooting, wrote:

(1) in following Martin,
Zimmerman's actions were
'inconsistent with those of a person who has stated he was in fear of another subject.'

(2) Zimmerman had at least two opportunities to speak to the teen and 'defuse the situation.'

(3) Zimmerman 'failed to identify himself'
as a concerned citizen
or neighborhood watch member
on two occasions that night."

A Sanford Police Department investigator who informed superiors he believed there was enough evidence
to charge George Zimmerman with manslaughter for shooting death of Trayvon Martin
is being transferred from investigative unit to patrol division. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/christo...arged-is-transferred-from-investigative-unit/

The New York Times
has verified a Military Intelligence connection
"George Zimmerman Kid-Glove Treatment After Trayvon Martin Shooting, Connected to Family's Intelligence Connection"? http://www.reachoutjobsearch.com/2012/04/george-zimmerman-kid-glove-treatment.html#axzz3I7zee9Ae

i.e.

GZ's grandfather, ROBERT WALTER ZIMMERMAN, born 5 February 1919 Chicago
- son of Clémence Robert and Meu (Becker)
joined U.S. Foreign Service 1947 after Harvard
– died 5 March 1999 aged 80 Washington, DC, of heart attack.
Grave site on wooded hillside offers clear view of State Department's diplomatic entrance.

As late as 1992 George's grandfather was working for the CIA in Langley Virginia after retirement from diplomacy.

World wide diplomatic career ended as consul general in Barcelona: married Peruvian Silvia Brull - the killer’s grandmother. GZ's mother Gladys also Peruvian born

George Zimmerman's wife did not testify because they are husband and wife,
so Jury and public never heard the truth about events
the evening before GZ left his home
and then encountered Trayvon

QUOTE

'…...After acquittal, we learned Zimmerman outright lied
about what he did evening before leaving townhouse and seeing Trayvon.
Wife Shellie Zimmerman revealed she and George argued
so she had left him that Saturday
and went to her dad’s house.
BUT
George said he cooked dinner for her that Sunday
before leaving for Target to get groceries for the week'

Also missing from State’s case was video from a bank
that was released in discovery material.
Many are of the opinion that MARK OSTERMAN, is in the video,
conducting a transaction at the bank,
leaving it around same time that Trayvon left the 7-Eleven just down the road.....'

U.S. Air Marshal MARK OSTERMAN was the friend who taught Zimmerman how to shoot,
and whose wife presided over Zimmerman’s wedding.
They met 2006, through his wife, Sondra,
who worked with Zimmerman at a mortgage-services company.
Zimmerman was a loan originator;
Sondra Osterman a loan processor.
They later worked together at a different company, Digital Risk. http://globalgrind.com/2012/07/13/u...k-george-zimmerman-in-trayvon-martin-details/

FINAL MOMENTS TIMELINE

7:09:34 – 7:13:41 - George Zimmerman calls Sanford Police Department (SPD) from his truck;
total time of the call is 4 minutes 7 seconds.

7:11:33 - Zimmerman tells police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

7:11:59 - In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?"

Zimmerman responds with, "Yes."

Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that."

Zimmerman: "OK."

7:12:00 – 7:12:59 - Rachel Jeantel calls Martin again at some point during this minute.

7:13:10 - Zimmerman tells SPD he does not know Martin's location.

7:13:41 - The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.

7:16:00 - 7:16:59 — Martin's call from Rachel Jeantel
goes dead during this minute.
the precise time surfaced during the trial,
the call ends at 7:15:43,
1 minute and 12 seconds before the fatal shot

7:16:11 - First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.

7:16:55 - Gunshot heard on 911 call.

7:17 - The first officer on the scene, Officer T. Smith arrives by squad car at Retreat View. Officer Smith is a very good friend of George Zimmerman who has contacts with SPD via his father and grandfather

OTHER IMPORTANT FACTORS

(1) GZ claimed he did not know/was unaware of the controversial Florida stand your ground law before shooting Trayvon Martin,
even though GZ studied criminal justice for four years while resident in Florida!

(2) GZ claims Trayvon was not running and that he did not pursue him
BUT some witnesses heard two people running, one obviously in pursuit of the other
- while other witnesses, depending on their location, saw either one or two men running.

Even more extraordinary was the revelation that:

"WITHIN HOURS of the shooting death of Trayvon Martin,
SANFORD POLICE held a SECRET MEETING
with the PROSECUTOR
and the shooter's father, a retired STATE MAGISTRATE.
The shooter was then free to go."

Criminal Justice degree information at Seminole college in which GZ re-enrolled in 2009 on a 4 year degree program makes interesting reading http://www.seminolestate.edu/crimina...ee/crim-as.php The “Introduction to Murder” course in the degree program is an elective, so we don’t know if GZ actually took it – but he may have.

This is how the course book is listed on the course website.
Murder Book
Author: Davies
Copyright: 2008
Publisher: Pearson Education
ISBN: 9780131724013

The actual name of the book is: 'The Murder Book: Examining Homicide'

Discovery documents released in the case, show GZ was prescribed the two powerful, mind and mood-altering drugs Adderall and Temazepam that directly affect the central nervous system and are generally used to treat insomnia and anxiety. Well known side effects of the include hallucinations and aggressiveness. BUT NO BLOOD SAMPLE FROM GZ WAS TAKEN AFTER THE KILLING

At interview, Detective Chris Serino said to the killer GZ:
“The child had no record at all, nothing in his nature that would match the behavior you describe
and I want to know, everybody wants to know, what set him off.
He’s not on PCP.
He’s not on anything.
He’s on Skittles.”

IMPORTANT FORENSIC DETAILS - Trayvon Benjamin Martin
(1) There was no DNA from George Zimmerman on Trayvon's hands NOR underneath his nails

(2) There were NO abrasions NO swollen knuckles NO defensive wounds found on Trayvon.
There was just one tiny 1/4" cut on the ring finger of Trayvon's left hand.
There was no saliva or blood which should have been all over TM's hands
considering GZ claimed TM covered his nose AND mouth, smothering him.
It is impossible to cover a bleeding nose AND a mouth that is open AND screaming
without getting DNA on your hands.
Forensic evidence disagrees with GZ's version of events.

(3) If TM had attempted to talk, there would have been blood coming from his mouth
- however there was none found in his airway,
meaning he wasn't trying to talk.
The forensic evidence shows that TM died instantly.

horarymaster · Nov 4, 2014

dhundhun said:
There seems to be total VOID in the area of election astrology. No one is able to take a call of election requests.

Astrology could be more helpful if some one elects time to apply for a job instead of asking horary "When will I get job?".

Election Astrology can of of more help than natal or Horary.

I'd suggest forum member to give some thought on it and change orientation if my suggestion helps.

I agree ! Electional astrology is a very important part of the arsenal of weapons available to the horary astrologer and it should be practiced MUCH more often!

To be a skilled horary astrologer. one also needs to be proficient in both basic astrology as well as reading electional events.

However not all Horary astrologers (on this site?) are as learned about fundamental electional astrology as they should.

That said, it must be said, Mister Dhundhun, that many people will gravitate to the easiest horary situation and the most simplistic of answers, in order to hide their own lack of knowledge and training?

It's part of today's McDonalds hamburger style of astrology that really offends me.

In other words, serve the client their answer (burger) in five seconds, and then, after gobbling up their answer, they will come back for more, having not been satisfied with the first serving.

Therefore, the "cure" for "McDonalds hamburger astrology" is to learn how to cook up a complete and satisfying astrological meal, so that the whole astrology experience is both enlightening and satisfying ?

sincerely,

-HM

Kaiousei no Senshi · Nov 4, 2014

I'm not sure attempting to bring more event charts into discussion is going to be the answer to the problem. While interesting, event charts bring zero insight into the process and philosophy of electing.

Marinka · Nov 4, 2014

I've done election charts and it is a complicated process of inspecting many charts and identifying which set of angles & placements will work best for what you intend to accomplish. Done correctly, it can offer very good results but, the time required is extensive. This is not a service that can be done in 10 to 20 minutes and as such, is not suited for a forum setting as I can't see professional astrologers providing the service for free unless it is an interesting case. Of course, students might be willing to spend hours on such cases as they would relish the learning opportunities.

JUPITERASC · Nov 5, 2014

Inline said:
I don't know anything about this attack, so am i even close -

some more information would be a help.

I'll get back soon.....

EDIT: event chart, i was thinking the US 7.16am, not european 19.16 pm.
The chart now Jup in 8th, Mars in 12th conj ASC.

Inline, I posted additional information for you as you requested
is it helpful towards drawing any forensic conclusions?
This is a good thread as any to discuss your methods
because it is not specifically addressing anything other than a 'VOID
in the are of election astrology in this forum'
An event chart is not an election
however this area of the forum does address event astrology

by the way, the timing of the shot is official, verified at the trial

Inline · Nov 5, 2014

JUPITERASC said:
Inline, I posted additional information for you as you requested

....is it helpful towards drawing any forensic conclusions?

This is a good thread as any to discuss your methods
because it is not specifically addressing anything other than a 'VOID' in the are of election astrology in this forum'

An event chart is not an election however this area of the forum does address event astrology

by the way, the timing of the shot is official, verified at the trial

Jup, thanks for the information, I will try an interpretation….

Firstly, check whether-or-not the chart is viable - chart time of 19.16pm is the official time listed on the police timeline, so we can start here.

The ‘ subject’ Trayvon Martin (TM) was a 17 yr. old adolescent represented by Virgo ASC. The ASC ruler Mercury is indicative of a youth or a child as a subject, and is located in the 7th house. When you see the 1st house ruler in the 7th, you are seeing the subject in contact with the ‘other person’ in this event, often the abductor.

The ‘other person’ George Zimmerman (GM) is represented by the Pisces DC. Neptune is located in 6th house describing work or service at the time of the event - perhaps GM was working? But where ever Neptune appears there is chaos, desire, erotic energy and a susceptibility to drugs.

….…

When the 10th house ruler is in the 7th house it shows someone of authority on the scene. It usually means that the victim has met up with someone who is powerful and authoritarian. GM was a security guard for parties but had lost his job because he was too aggressive. Also, at the same time of the event, GM’s close friend Mark Osterman, a US Air Marshal (who had taught GM how to shoot) was very nearby...

Jupiter co-ruler of the 7th house (GM) is located in Aries 8th house an indication of the clandestine, financial, or sexual motivations of the abductor GM. The 8th house is also a death house and indicates the beginning of a death pattern. Jupiter is conjunct Moon, ruler of Cancer 11th house of friends perhaps an indication of clandestine activites between the abductor GM & friend TO?

Maybe TM bumped into both GM+TO while they were together….working?

dhundhun · Nov 5, 2014

At that time, these are observations:

Semi-square, at times becomes most irritating aspect. So many objects are involved, from malefic objects Mars, Saturn and Chiron to benefic objects Venus and Jupiter
- Mars semi-square Saturn
- Mercury semi-square Jupiter
- Chiron/Sun conjunction semi-square Eris/Venus conjunction
Mars is opposing Sun and Mercury and mid-point of Sun/Mercury

Astrologically irritant of Mars is different than irritant of Sun or irritant of Mercury. They have as if their own world, but they meet through opposition.

Inline · Nov 5, 2014

Here is an article i found with quotes from Mark Osterman, GM's 'best friend':

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...von-martin-george-zimmerman-shellie-zimmerman

quote:
"In the weeks that followed, the Ostermans kept Zimmerman's presence in their home a secret. He took "copious notes" about the shooting, the Ostermans write, and grappled with guilt — Zimmerman "felt he had committed an 'unpardonable sin.' "

The book, reveals Mark Osterman's links to local law enforcement. A former Seminole County deputy, he repeatedly mentions officers recognizing him, and describes former Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee as a father figure who was once his lieutenant at the Sheriff's Office.

The book directs harsh criticism at the media for reporting information the Ostermans say was false or misleading. The Ostermans maintain their friend's innocence, and say the Zimmermans' lives will likely never return to normalcy.
"We have sadly concluded that George cannot win," the books says. "No matter the outcome of the trial, whether found guilty or innocent, he will lose."

...............

Jup, you wanted to see if we could determine the outcome of the court ruling today (George Zimmerman murder case of Trayvon Martin)...i think we can. Attached is the event chart with current transits & progressions...

Looking at the transits and prog chart - the 7th house co-ruler Jupiter is now conjunct the cusp of the 12th house. This could be an indication that George Zimmerman will indeed be sentenced to some kind of detention or even prison today....but Jupiter has a benevolent, positive energy and usually indicates places rather than people....so perhaps GM's place of detention will be more protected, or luxurious than what is normal?

Inline

JUPITERASC · Nov 5, 2014

Inline said:
Here is an article i found with quotes from Mark Osterman, GM's 'best friend':

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...von-martin-george-zimmerman-shellie-zimmerman

quote:
"In the weeks that followed, the Ostermans kept Zimmerman's presence in their home a secret. He took "copious notes" about the shooting, the Ostermans write, and grappled with guilt — Zimmerman "felt he had committed an 'unpardonable sin.' "

The book, reveals Mark Osterman's links to local law enforcement. A former Seminole County deputy, he repeatedly mentions officers recognizing him, and describes former Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee as a father figure who was once his lieutenant at the Sheriff's Office.

The book directs harsh criticism at the media for reporting information the Ostermans say was false or misleading. The Ostermans maintain their friend's innocence, and say the Zimmermans' lives will likely never return to normalcy.
"We have sadly concluded that George cannot win," the books says. "No matter the outcome of the trial, whether found guilty or innocent, he will lose."

...............

Jup, you wanted to see if we could determine the outcome of the court ruling today (George Zimmerman murder case of Trayvon Martin)...i think we can. Attached is the event chart with current transits & progressions...

Looking at the transits and prog chart - the 7th house co-ruler Jupiter is now conjunct the cusp of the 12th house. This could be an indication that George Zimmerman will indeed be sentenced to some kind of detention or even prison today....but Jupiter has a benevolent, positive energy and usually indicates places rather than people....so perhaps GM's place of detention will be more protected, or luxurious than what is normal?

Inline

i find forensic astrology so intriguing

It's not likely that we, the general the public would be told
if the outcome of the Grand Jury is that George Zimmerman could 'be sentenced' today
because the Grand Jury hears evidence in private
and is closed to public scrutiny

HOWEVER

Certainly Jupiter is associated with Justice
and so
Jupiter on cusp of 12th
the notorious house of 'secrets, self-undoing' and so on
is perhaps symbolism for 'Justice in secret' = Grand Jury Hearing

and so it seems we have a working chart
shall keep you updated
many thanks for your input

TAAFFE AND THE GRAND JURY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc38T0TRj28#t=99

Zarathu · Nov 5, 2014

How did this discussion get warped into event astrology from Electional astrology? Event astrology has noting to do with electional.

Electional is the choice of a good time to do something: like a marriage, a birth(by caesarian of course), a business, surgery, etc.

Event astrology is about what happened in a circumstance after it has already happened.

JUPITERASC · Nov 5, 2014

Zarathu said:
How did this discussion get warped into event astrology from Electional astrology?
Event astrology has noting to do with electional.

Electional is the choice of a good time to do something: like a marriage,
a birth(by caesarian of course),
a business, surgery, etc.

Event astrology is about what happened in a circumstance after it has already happened.

Clearly, the differences between Electional, Horary and Event charts
have been addressed earlier on in the thread
HOWEVER
This is the ELECTIONAL AND EVENT ASTROLOGY subforum
and
we are discussing a particularly interesting Event chart :smile:

VOID in the area of election astrology in this forum

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