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  #1  
Unread 06-04-2019, 08:41 AM
HYHOANG HYHOANG is offline
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Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

The title pretty much explains itself. I am no skeptic, I'm just wondering if there is any way for us to look at astrology and explain it scientifically. Just why does astrology work, and how can it influence our lives, individually and collectively? Also are there any books on this particular topic that I can read on?

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Unread 06-04-2019, 09:30 AM
Loda41 Loda41 is offline
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Originally Posted by HYHOANG View Post
The title pretty much explains itself. I am no skeptic, I'm just wondering if there is any way for us to look at astrology and explain it scientifically. Just why does astrology work, and how can it influence our lives, individually and collectively? Also are there any books on this particular topic that I can read on?
Your talking about Quantum Physics. It is a legitimate question but beyond the scope of this webcite.
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  #3  
Unread 06-04-2019, 01:23 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

The "stars" do not cause anything. Astrology is an interpretive art based on hard science; but you can never "prove" astrology in a scientific way. The stars show the state of the universe at any given moment when properly translated.

If you are looking for a cause and effect link, there is none. The "modern scientific" mind has no place for metaphysics.
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  #4  
Unread 06-04-2019, 01:47 PM
SunConjunctUranus SunConjunctUranus is offline
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
The "stars" do not cause anything. Astrology is an interpretive art based on hard science; but you can never "prove" astrology in a scientific way. The stars show the state of the universe at any given moment when properly translated.

If you are looking for a cause and effect link, there is none. The "modern scientific" mind has no place for metaphysics.
So basically astrology is metaphysics? Why?
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Unread 06-04-2019, 01:57 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Here's a true story.

I'm an old cab driver. One night in Fort Worth I was having a good night, keeping busy, making money. But there came a lull. So I parked in front of the Old South Pancake House, waiting on a call.

My mind slipped into a meditative state, and I was passively observing my thoughts as they passed by one by one like the cars on a train.

The thought came by: "Wouldn't it be cool if I got a $25 round trip?" Other thoughts followed. Two or three minutes later I got a call. It was to pick up the hotel just down the street.

As I pulled into the hotel parking lot I saw three young men running toward me.

"You're a cab driver. You know where the girls are!"

"Yes, I do. But:
1. It's late.
2. It's cold.
3. It rained a couple of hours ago and drove the girls off the street. I don't think you will find any girls tonight."

They insisted. I took them on a tour: no girls in sight. So I dropped them off at the hotel, collected my $25 fare, and went back to the Old South. Exactly the thought I had a couple of minutes before I took the call...a $25 round trip.

That is a true and objective report of what happened.

Now explain this scientifically. The same difficulty plagues proving astrology.

Last edited by greybeard; 06-04-2019 at 02:03 PM.
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Unread 06-04-2019, 02:26 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

It's my opinion

That the stars show the state of the universe at any given moment, and that a person born at that moment IS that moment. When it is understood that the universe is One...

The modern scientific mind is atomistic, divisive, separative. Astrology is holistic, unifying, integrative.
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  #7  
Unread 06-04-2019, 02:31 PM
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

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Your talking about Quantum Physics.
It is a legitimate question but beyond the scope of this webcite.
Exactly

Ours is an AMATEUR astrological learning forum
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Unread 06-04-2019, 02:32 PM
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post


It's my opinion

That the stars show the state of the universe at any given moment, and that a person born at that moment IS that moment.
When it is understood that the universe is One...

The modern scientific mind is atomistic, divisive, separative.
Astrology is holistic, unifying, integrative.
Astrologers all differ regarding their opinions on astrology
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Unread 06-04-2019, 02:33 PM
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

*


Physicist Richard Feynman
explains
the scientific and unscientific methods of understanding nature
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYPapE-3FRw
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Unread 06-04-2019, 02:39 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

It's my opinion

That the stars show the state of the universe at any given moment, and that a person born at that moment IS that moment. When it is understood that the universe is One...

The modern scientific mind is atomistic, divisive, separative. Astrology is holistic, unifying, integrative.
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  #11  
Unread 06-04-2019, 02:44 PM
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
It's my opinion

That the stars show the state of the universe at any given moment, and that a person born at that moment IS that moment. When it is understood that the universe is One...

The modern scientific mind is atomistic, divisive, separative. Astrology is holistic, unifying, integrative.
here's a scientific opinion from a scientist


Physicist Richard Feynman
explains
the scientific and unscientific methods of understanding nature
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYPapE-3FRw
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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Unread 06-04-2019, 02:45 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Yes, astrology is metaphysics. It is concerned with the nature of reality and being, and with what is outside objective reality.
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  #13  
Unread 06-04-2019, 02:49 PM
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

only if we are scientists as well as astrologers
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Unread 06-04-2019, 02:53 PM
SunConjunctUranus SunConjunctUranus is offline
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Yes, astrology is metaphysics. It is concerned with the nature of reality and being, and with what is outside objective reality.
Metaphysics is considered as a science, so there is no point to claim astrology is not a science.
https://www.iep.utm.edu/met-scie/
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Unread 06-04-2019, 03:02 PM
SunConjunctUranus SunConjunctUranus is offline
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

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re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

only if we are scientists as well as astrologers
Morinus (my idol)?
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Unread 06-04-2019, 03:08 PM
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Astrology and astronomy were originally the same science. At what point did they divide in the western world? Did division and demotion happen in concert? Did first Christianity suppress astrological study because of its power?

Asking us here instead of google,
p
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Unread 06-04-2019, 03:13 PM
Gemini888 Gemini888 is offline
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

I'm studying for a Master Degree, and part of my study at school is to think critically and I have to do scientific research everyday. I'm also an avid reader of science books.


At the same time, I practice astrology and Tarot, quite shamelessly.


Before we can talk about "astrology in a scientific way", should we ask this first? "Can we look at astrology with scientific eyes?"


There have been attempts to "scientifically explain" astrology, but so far none has been successful. The biggest reason is that all the scientists were operating at the place of doubt. They were doing it with the ultimate aim to prove that astrology was a fraud. They jumped into research without much knowledge of astrology as a whole. Some of them even relied on Sun signs believers. So much of the "results" contradicts each other. The Universe does not support anyone who seeks for the "truth" with the purpose of proclaiming superior over others.


At the same time, we have Carl Jung, a pioneer psychologist and devoted astrologer. Jung was unable to prove the consistent connection between science and astrology (read here for more) One reason was that he was too ashamed of his devotion to astrology in front of his "scientific" community. Jung based much of his pioneer discovery on astrology, but he didn't have enough courage to admit the devotion.


So while we wait for someone knowledgeable enough to connect the dots for us, why don't we ask ourselves if we can somehow combine a scientific and an astrological mind together?


For me personally, science and astrology complement each other. My knowledge of psychology has enabled me to make sense of charts, and astrology further expand my knowledge of psychology.


So in the end, what is the point of explaining astrology if you aren't a skeptic? Does it bother me that I can't explain astrology using science? Probably not, because I'm already combining the two forces nicely
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Last edited by Gemini888; 06-04-2019 at 03:15 PM.
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Unread 06-04-2019, 03:24 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Until Kepler (ca. 1600), astrologers were the scientists.

By the end of the 17th century the astrological curricula had been removed from many universities and the divorce was final. Organized religion played a role, but was part of a larger movement. Remember that Galileo was placed under house arrest by the Church for supporting the heliocentric view.
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Unread 06-04-2019, 03:34 PM
Gemini888 Gemini888 is offline
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Until Kepler (ca. 1600), astrologers were the scientists.

By the end of the 17th century the astrological curricula had been removed from many universities and the divorce was final. Organized religion played a role, but was part of a larger movement. Remember that Galileo was placed under house arrest by the Church for supporting the heliocentric view.
This, to me, is ironic in many ways.


The Sun has always been associated with Leo, the King of the zodiac. So logically other planets have to revolve around the King. Earth (Terra) is only ruled by Taurus. But traditionally people thought all planets revolved around the Earth. Galileo got it right, and after that astrology was no longer regarded as valid.
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Unread 06-04-2019, 03:38 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Planets are not ruled by signs. Period. Earth (the planet) is not ruled by Taurus.

Kepler devised the Laws of Planetary Orbits by mathematical means, and the Scientific Revolution was launched. Kepler was a skilled astrologer.

The earth holds no rulership over any sign. Earth is found at the center of the horoscope (the universe) and is receptive; the other planets cast their rays onto earth.

Last edited by greybeard; 06-04-2019 at 03:54 PM.
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Unread 06-05-2019, 12:07 AM
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
Astrology and astronomy were originally the same science. At what point did they divide in the western world? Did division and demotion happen in concert? Did first Christianity suppress astrological study because of its power?

Asking us here instead of google,
p
the division occurred in the west around 1670's in England.
Sir Isaac Newton a alchemist and astrologer famously said, to Edmund Haley who predicted the reappearance of Halley's comet,who did not believe in astrology:

"Sir I have studied the subject and you have not".

Edmund Halley was the first man to use astronomical data independently of astrology. before Halley, there were no professional astronomers. no one lived off astronomical knowledge rather astronomical knowledge was used by astrologers to make their living.

Halley was the first astronomer, as the was hired by the Crown to study and make list of all the celestial motions,nutations,precessions including orbital data among a few. you would be amazed how many strange oscillation and nutations and other movement the celestial objects make or describe.

rahu

Last edited by rahu; 06-05-2019 at 12:10 AM.
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Unread 06-05-2019, 12:44 PM
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

*
Begin by defining astrology
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Unread 06-05-2019, 02:42 PM
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cause and effect, to Hyhoang

Hyhoang,

You asked
Quote:
Originally Posted by HYHOANG View Post
...is any way for us to look at astrology and explain it scientifically...
Science is USUALLY about observable cause and effect...and so far no one can say there's any "cause" to astrology that affects things on Earth to come out a particular way. However astrology does INDICATE what is going on on Earth.

About astrology,

Tim
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Unread 06-05-2019, 03:25 PM
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Re: cause and effect, to Hyhoang

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsontc View Post
Science is USUALLY about observable cause and effect...and so far no one can say there's any "cause" to astrology that affects things on Earth to come out a particular way. However astrology does INDICATE what is going on on Earth.
I disagree. If there is indication (that can be measured), there is causation, even if there happens to be a hidden variable responsible for two things, the movement of the planets and terrestrial affairs. So astrology only needs to prove a statistical correlation to be recognized, and it is not necessary to have the mechanism for it (even though it would be useful).
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Unread 06-05-2019, 04:00 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Because Martin Fluegelmeyer had a car wreck at the same time that Charlene Hughes had her wisdom tooth removed does not mean there is a correlation between the two events. Astrology will have to do better than that.

There is no demonstrable causative link between earth and sky.

You are trying to meet science on its own terms, "proving" astrology. That is a losing proposition from the gitgo.

Last edited by greybeard; 06-05-2019 at 04:08 PM.
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