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  #1  
Unread 03-21-2009, 08:15 PM
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Leo person, acts like a kitten

I have this friend whom is a leo sun, leo rising, leo moon- triple leo!
This person is very caring and loving but so very needy.

I cannot for the life of me figure out this one. He has good aspects to make him a leader, stand out from the rest, strong.

He lets everyone walk over him
Very shy at first, no self-esteem- doubts self all of the time
Let father lie and lie over and over. He got a scholarship to a great school, father said he would pay for college if he did not leave home. Person stayed and father got credit cards in persons name, never paid the person back, never paid for college.
Person never stood up to father, up to this day father treats him like **** and he ignores him. Person never told rest of family what father did to him.

He trusts everyone
He lets family walk all over him, he does everything for them and they treat him like a slave
Boss at work pushes him around

It just drives me crazy because he is a good friend, person. But he does not seem to ever stand up for himself.
Chart shows him to be a good leader, creative. Uranus square sun and moon would show him to be a bit of a rebel- surely this would make him stand up for himself being walked on.

None of these leonine qualities fit him.

I thought for sure something was wrong with his birth certificate...but I saw it for myself

I am thinking his poor sun, moon and ascendant are wounded by the squares to chiron...
Could that be the case?

How do I help my friend?
I end up telling him to stand up for himself. I have to point out how things could be better if he were to just recognize that he is a strong person.

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Unread 03-21-2009, 08:17 PM
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Re: Leo person, acts like a kitten

Here is the chart.
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Last edited by smilingsteph; 03-24-2009 at 11:37 PM.
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Unread 03-21-2009, 08:51 PM
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Re: Leo person, acts like a kitten

Steph,

I had to giggle reading the title of your thread, and then, before diving into your post, checked, if I was on the 'Astrological Humour' board with you.

Not only does your friend have both his lights in that ferociously, royal sign, along with his Asc, but he also has his Leo Sun so close to his Asc. BUT, he has Nep so closely aspecting both his lights, even his Asc in a trine (energy flows easily), and Neptune, the God of the Seas, engulfs all and dissolves all that it touches. Hence, it robs him of his Leonine self-confidence and makes him more the Piscean sort. Note also that Neptune (spirituality, also indecisiveness, self-doubt) sits exactly in the astrological house of Leo, the 5th, the house of recreation and pleasure, but also of self-expression, so there you have it again.

Then you have Saturn in the first, which makes him come across perhaps as a bit inhibited, reserved, even a bit under-confident. Saturn is so good at imparting stability, but also at lowering one's self-esteem; and, imagine what it does to your friend sitting in his first house and in that close conjunction (energies synergise) to that shy Virgo Mercury (thinking, also communication) placed in the second of self-esteem and self-worth.

Last and perhaps the least in this case, maybe that Chiron in the 10th also makes him aware of his wounds and fears in that pretty public house, the 10th.

AQ7
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Unread 03-24-2009, 11:36 PM
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Re: Leo person, acts like a kitten

Thanks aquarius!
I was looking at that neptune trining the sun and the moon and wondering how that would play out. You made perfect sense!
I told him how he is a kitten and he laughed. He wondered why he was not very leo like, he liked your answer.
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Unread 03-24-2009, 11:37 PM
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Re: Leo person, acts like a kitten

Sorry guys having attachment issues.
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File Type: gif re.gif (25.8 KB, 29 views)
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Unread 03-25-2009, 12:59 PM
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Re: Leo person, acts like a kitten

I was attracted to this thread because I'm a Leo myself, and most leo's can experience issues about insecurity, but what you describe, smilingsteph, sounded like something way deeper than that.

I think I have it!!!
Issues with the father sounds like Saturn, and this guy has Saturn conjunct Mercury in an unaspected duet!!! This means that the issues which emerge for him early in his life have the themes of this conjunction - and so both planets - at their base. This unaspected planetary duet would normally manifest as someone who is somewhat overly concerned with the details - perhaps a person who is pedantic to the extreme, and who must be right at all costs.

However, in early life one planet can mask another, so that the over-expression of one planet - in his case, Saturn - masks his need to be able to express himself openly and freely. Unaspected Saturn is tough, and can render a person wary, fearful and self-limiting. His father seems to be his limiting influence. Perhaps his father is very critical of him. Perhaps his father is acting in some way like his nemesis.

[Monica Lewinsky has an unaspected Venus-Saturn duet. Her weak spot was older men - i.e. Saturn - but this wasn't because she's in any way flawed, because she was essentially preyed upon by a much older man whilst in college, setting her up for the events with another older man, Bill Clinton.]

Those with Saturn unaspected can have difficulty in adjusting to the requirements of authority figures, either by caving in to the authority, or in some way being treated less than honourably by Saturnian figures, such as bosses. It would be common for a man with this placement to have difficulty with any kind of Saturnian figure - father, boss, priest, police - anyone who has authority over him.
Hopefully, this is not a lifetime sentence, and transformation through this extremely limiting stage is possible.
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Unread 03-25-2009, 03:24 PM
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Re: Leo person, acts like a kitten

I will tell my friend this for sure. It makes complete sense to me, but he has not take off his blinders yet to see it for himself. However, I continue to nurture him to the idea that he is a great guy, his ambitions are honest unlike his fathers and he is the man his father wanted to be but couldnt.
He is coming around slowly.
He even thought about committing suicide, because he wanted his father to appreciate him, show that he loved him.
His father will walk into a room and not even say hi, or acknowledge his son is there and say hello to the other son, imagine how awful.
I thought an unaspected planet was a good thing, until I looked it up. Seems the energy is just there, unable to do anything.
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Unread 03-25-2009, 08:36 PM
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Re: Leo person, acts like a kitten

I'd say the Sun and Moon conjunction is a big part of this. I have them conjunct in Leo too, and I've become ever more quiet as I've grown older.

I believe that Sun/Moon conjunction allows you to know yourself and your own feelings, and gives a quieter confidence where you don't need to be arrogant to cover up insecurities. But also you know your own weaknesses and being a Leo, can be honest to oneself about them but also too proud to want to let others know them.
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Unread 03-26-2009, 04:14 AM
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Re: Leo person, acts like a kitten

Quote:
Originally Posted by smilingsteph
his ambitions are honest unlike his fathers and he is the man his father wanted to be but couldnt.
That's a wonderful summing up of the process of projection, smilingsteph. In other words, this guy's father cannot stand the fact that his son has sussed out this thing called Life, so he projects all his rage towards Life on to his son. How childlike this father is!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by smilingsteph
I thought an unaspected planet was a good thing, until I looked it up. Seems the energy is just there, unable to do anything.
An unaspected planet is a good thing in the long term. It forces one into opening your eyes and seeing things as they are. It enforces maturing of the soul, and with Saturn, this can be tough. I find that because there is not normal avenue for an expression of the planet - i.e. through aspects with other planets - that a person over-compensates for it by expressing it in an over-blown way. Your friend is in a way `expressing' it through receiving his father's projections about manhood.
I just read in K. Hamaker-Zondag's book about Yods (and unaspected planets) about Prince William's (of England) unaspected Saturn in his natal chart: (he also has aa yod between Pluto and Neptune, and with Venus at the apex.)
"Both the yod and the unaspected planet make him vulnerable, insecure, and sensitive........."

Take into account also that your friend's unaspected Saturn rules his 6th house, so the issues of this house will be under the spotlight.
An unaspected planet (or a yod) tend to be integrated better as a person ages, providing they work with it.
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Unread 03-26-2009, 12:48 PM
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Re: Leo person, acts like a kitten

Wow R4VEN, that was some very good information!
I have been at astrology for a year an a half and I never took the time to look at those unaspected planets. Now that you mention it, I do remember that the yod book described the unaspected planets function similarly to a yod.

He has such high hopes for moving out of his parents house, passing his exam for a physical therapy tech and moving on in life. I did a Horary chart and the passing exam thing does not look too good. Since befriending him he has at least opened his eyes to the way his father treats him. He never really "cared" before and is now realizing how much his father has taken away from him.
I never say bad things really, until his father was making fun of my mothers death. Saying "where are your friends?" Maybe her mother didnt really die and she just dosent want to be your buddy....I mean how sick is that!
His father would go that far to be nasty to him, then says he was just joking. Okay jokes aside, that could slip, but imagine living with jokes like that your entire life?
I feel very badly for him and the only thing I can hope to do, is to be that revolutionary aquarian rising, with my neptune in the 8th and help make deep changes within others- as I love to do with myself.
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Unread 03-28-2009, 04:10 AM
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Re: Leo person, acts like a kitten

CHart needed. There are obviously challenging aspects elsewhere affecting his sense of self and ego. I am a Leo but I act more like a lioness and have never been kittenish. Purr purr.
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Unread 03-28-2009, 04:12 AM
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Re: Leo person, acts like a kitten

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inside Out Orange
I'd say the Sun and Moon conjunction is a big part of this. I have them conjunct in Leo too, and I've become ever more quiet as I've grown older.

I believe that Sun/Moon conjunction allows you to know yourself and your own feelings, and gives a quieter confidence where you don't need to be arrogant to cover up insecurities. But also you know your own weaknesses and being a Leo, can be honest to oneself about them but also too proud to want to let others know them.
I have Saturn in Leo known to be understated and not liking the limelight or attention drawn to them but as I have matured I am more confident and extraverted. So it is a maturity thing. I know double Leos who are quiet but determined and not at all out there. All depends on the aspects. As it is connected to the performing arts people assume extraversion but it is often an opportunity to hide behind another persona and to become someone else. I hear that a lot from actors for instance.
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Unread 03-28-2009, 05:45 AM
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Re: Leo person, acts like a kitten

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire19
I have Saturn in Leo known to be understated and not liking the limelight or attention drawn to them but as I have matured I am more confident and extraverted. So it is a maturity thing. I know double Leos who are quiet but determined and not at all out there. All depends on the aspects. As it is connected to the performing arts people assume extraversion but it is often an opportunity to hide behind another persona and to become someone else. I hear that a lot from actors for instance.
Thanks Claire-
I wonder what you think about my thoughts on Leo's, as I speculate in a very generalized manner....
I was just so confused about my friend. My mother had a leo rising, and leo moon, she was very much leo. My aunt whom I had a very close attachment to was also leo rising and leo moon! My spouse has a leo moon. If I take all three and combine how their personalities are without the entire chart I can see that Leo's are sensitive, caring and always going to the extreme of wanting to care for another. Now to me it is different than say a Cancer caring, as Cancer's seem to be more maternalistic, quiet. Leo's to me put themselves out there and make a show of how they care. Like they love the attention of caring for someone else, but want in return someone very loyal and who will show attention in a grand way. They give loyalty and desire that in return.
I dont know I guess my friend is very different than this and I was thinking, "why would a triple leo be like a scared kitten?" When you said it was a maturity thing I very well can see that and agree! What a great person, too bad he has a Leo's heart and no bravery towards the world outside. Maybe in time...
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