"Measured Points" versus Planets

david starling

Well-known member
Okay, go ahead with your theories, I'm gonna read it, and how is it going? But sometimes I'm just going to learn from both perspectives, trad and modern. Like this simple analogy: I want to doing a dribble motion "in and out move" BUT I didn't even know how to doing basic "crossover". So that's it, just learning.:biggrin:

J.A. says it's a public forum, and any member can comment at anytime. Yet, the vast majority of Traditional astrologers are willing to discuss the outermost Planets, Pluto included, in a peripheral way, but not in the private blog board known as Traditional Astrology in this Community. I support the right to have that private blog included, but I don't appreciate the attempt to interfere with a discussion of new techniques in the Modern forum.
 

david starling

Well-known member
As Sign-rulership goes, we have the Traditional 7/12 pattern, very tightly knit, and the loose-knit, intuition-based 10/12 configuration that the vast majority of Modern astrologers are using. I needed a Modern PATTERN to incorporate the outermost Planets, and got it by expanding the rulerships to include the Ascendant and Age-indicator, based on their importance, and their rate of motion through the zodiac. It incorporates the Elements and Modalities as the key to the pattern.
 
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SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
Here are the results. The terminology needs some work, but it's close enough for now. :biggrin:

(#1) Aries:
Domicled ruler••• Mars
Regulator••• Saturn
Motivator••• Sun
Benefactor(s)••• Pluto + NN
Exalted in Aries•••Jupiter

(#2) Taurus:
Domicled ruler(s)•••(Gaia's) Age-indicator + SN
Regulator••••• :uranus:
Motivator••• Jupiter
Benefactor(s)••• (Apollo's) Ascendant + Chiron
Exalted in Taurus••• Venus

(#3) Gemini:
Domicled ruler••• Mercury
Regulator••• Neptune
Motivator••• Venus
Benefactor••• Saturn
Exalted in Gemini••• Pluto + NN

(#4) :cancer:
Domicled ruler••• Moon
Regulator••• Mars
Motivator(s)••• Pluto + NN
Benefactor••••• :uranus:
Exalted in :cancer:••• (Apollo's) Ascendant + Chiron

(#5) Leo
Domicled ruler••• Sun
Regulator(s)••• (Gaia's) Age-indicator + SN
Motivator(s)••• (Apollo's) Ascendant + Chiron
Benefactor••• Neptune
Exalted in Leo••• Saturn

(#6) Virgo
Domicled ruler••• Jupiter
Regulator••• Mercury
Motivator••• Saturn
Benefactor••• Mars
Exalted in Virgo••••• :uranus:

(#7) Libra
Domicled ruler••• Venus
Regulator••• Moon
Motivator••••• :uranus:
Benefactor(s)••• (Gaia's) Age-indicator +SN
Exalted in Libra••• Neptune

(#8) Scorpio
Domicled ruler(s)••• Pluto + NN
Regulator••• Sun
Motivator••• Neptune
Benefactor••• Mercury
Exalted in Scorpio••• Mars

(#9) Sagittarius
Domicled ruler(s)••• (Apollo's) Ascendant + Chiron
Regulator••• Jupiter
Motivator••• Mars
Benefactor••• Moon
Exalted in Sagittarius••• (Gaia's) Age-indicator + SN

(#10) Capricorn
Domicled ruler••• Saturn
Regulator••• Venus
Motivator(s)••• (Gaia's) Age-indicator + SN
Benefactor••• Sun
Exalted in Capricorn••• Mercury

(#11) Aquarius
Domicled ruler••••• :uranus:
Regulator••• Pluto + NN
Motivator••• Mercury
Benefactor••• Jupiter
Exalted in Aquarius••• Moon

(#12) Pisces
Domicled ruler••• Neptune
Regulator(s)••• (Apollo's) Ascendant + Chiron
Motivator••• Moon
Benefactor••• Venus
Exalted in Pisces••• Sun

There's a consistent method used to delineate the above rulership combinations, which I'm calling the "12/12 Pattern".

This is cool, David. But how to understand virgo as jupiter domicile ruler? And how you get the calculation such as taurus ruler, and saggitarius ruler? May you share from ancients stories that logically connect to them?

What I know about Chiron is pain and pain healer, but why you put chiron calculation on Saggitarius? Since I know that your Sun and Mercury is in Pisces.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
This is cool, David. But how to understand virgo as jupiter domicile ruler? And how you get the calculation such as taurus ruler, and saggitarius ruler? May you share from ancients stories that logically connect to them?

What I know about Chiron is pain and pain healer, but why you put chiron calculation on Saggitarius? Since I know that your Sun and Mercury is in Pisces.

The Ancient story tells that the Centaur Chiron heroically took the place of Prometheus, and endured his torturous punishment for giving the gift of fire to humans, thereby raising us above the other creatures of the earth. Hercules freed Chiron, and as reward for Chiron's selfless act of courage, Zeus placed him in the Heavens as the Constellation Sagittarius. So, the actual symbol for the Sign itself is none other than Chiron! When Chiron is Domiciled in Sagittarius, it means self-knowlege, since it's his own Sign. But, Apollo, Chiron's mentor, is the true Native-ruler of Sagittarius, through the Ascendant. Strong connection between Apollo's role as god of Sun-rise and the Ascendant, which is the point of sunrise, where the Sun's path crosses the eastern horizon.

Athena, goddess of Wisdom, "stepped from Zeus' brow". As her father, she acknowledged him as her ruler. She was the foremost virgin goddess of both Greece and Rome, in which Zeus was named Jupiter and Athena was named Minerva.

Fixed-Earth Taurus is Native-ruled by Gaia, the Ancient Greco-Roman personification of the Earth. Taurus is Native-ruled by Gaia, through the Earth's Age-indicator, since in the geocentric system the Earth is fixed in the center.

I used rate of motion of the Fixed and Mutable rulers with a coefficient of change in position. The Cardinal-signs are how we position the tropical Zodiac, and their rulerships are derived from a Heliocentric overview of planetary positions using Earth's orbit as the reference orbit. This overview confirms the Traditional rulership of all 4 Cardinal-signs.
The coefficient method confirms the conventional rulerships of the Sun, Mercury, and all three outermost Planets, as well as the new rulerships of Sagittarius, Virgo, and Taurus.
 
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SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
The Ancient story tells that the Centaur Chiron heroically took the place of Prometheus, and endured his torturous punishment for giving the gift of fire to humans, thereby raising us above the other creatures of the earth. Hercules freed Chiron, and as reward for Chiron's selfless act of courage, Zeus placed him in the Heavens as the Constellation Sagittarius. So, the actual symbol for the Sign itself is none other than Chiron! When Chiron is Domiciled in Sagittarius, it means self-knowlege, since it's his own Sign. But, Apollo, Chiron's mentor, is the true Native-ruler of Sagittarius, through the Ascendant. Strong connection between Apollo's role as god of Sun-rise and the Ascendant, which is the point of sunrise, where the Sun's path crosses the eastern horizon.

Athena, goddess of Wisdom, "stepped from Zeus' brow". As her father, she acknowledged him as her ruler. She was the foremost virgin goddess of both Greece and Rome, in which Zeus was named Jupiter and Athena was named Minerva.

Fixed-Earth Taurus is Native-ruled by Gaia, the Ancient Greco-Roman personification of the Earth. Taurus is Native-ruled by Gaia, through the Earth's Age-indicator, since in the geocentric system the Earth is fixed in the center.

I used rate of motion of the Fixed and Mutable rulers with a coefficient of change in position. The Cardinal-signs are how we position the tropical Zodiac, and their rulerships are derived from a Heliocentric overview of planetary positions using Earth's orbit as the reference orbit. This overview confirms the Traditional rulership of all 4 Cardinal-signs.
The coefficient method confirms the conventional rulerships of the Sun, Mercury, and all three outermost Planets, as well as the new rulerships of Sagittarius, Virgo, and Taurus.

Okay David, good luck. :biggrin: We're looking forward to see the result of your experiment.
 

petosiris

Banned
Originally, SIGN meant simply "a Sign of the SEASON"

Actually, signs come from the latin word signum and as I explain here:

Language is a great way to understand astrology, specifically the Greek language. The word zodiac comes from the Greek ''zωδιακός κύκλος'' or circle of zoidia and the signs themselves were referred to as ''zoidia'' which have the dual meaning of ''images'' or the diminutive form of animal - ''little animals''.

Translators of ancient astrological texts like Robert Schmidt and academics like Dorian Greenbaum initially left the word untranslated (because of the dual meaning), but have recently settled translating the word as ''image'' - for example instead of ''the sign of Cancer'', they would say ''the image of the Crab'' (it seems that the Greek authors used more in the sense of image).

One of the definitions of the Latin translation ''signum'' initially also meant image, but that is no longer relevant in modern English, so the word ''sign'' is actually no longer accurate and somewhat misleading in the context of understanding the development of the zodiac in western astrology.

Of course, the images are based on the constellations, since every single astrologer saw a crab instead of a mermaid, you have the image of the Crab in the zodiac. This equally applies to the other signs.
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=912423&postcount=71

Few astrologers seem interested in correcting this error, instead they obfuscate themselves with pivots and cattle prods.
 
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petosiris

Banned
I see that in tropical coordinates, Mars is about to enter the Cardinal-Fire sign Aries. The image is the Ram.

Yes, but the actual image of the Ram is about 25 degrees later. ;/

So the parameter to decide so-called "sign" in the zodiac is based on the constellation, right?

Yes, the twelvefold circle was entirely based on the constellations. To avoid the above unintelligible error, they had the seasonal year not conflated with the zodiac, for example Spica marked the end of the Maiden, but the autumnal equinox (in the Northern Hemisphere) occurred 8, 10 or 15 days after it. Babylonians, Egyptians, Greeks and Indians all did this. It now occurs 24 days before its ecliptical degree.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Yes, but the actual image of the Ram is about 25 degrees later. ;/



Yes, the twelvefold circle was entirely based on the constellations. To avoid the above unintelligible error, they had the seasonal year not conflated with the zodiac, for example Spica marked the end of the Maiden, but the autumnal equinox (in the Northern Hemisphere) occurred 8, 10 or 15 days after it. Babylonians, Egyptians, Greeks and Indians all did this. It now occurs 24 days before its ecliptical degree.

No, it's the Hired Man constellation.
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Here are the results. The terminology needs some work, but it's close enough for now. :biggrin:

(#1) Aries:
Domicled ruler••• Mars
Regulator••• Saturn
Motivator••• Sun
Benefactor(s)••• Pluto + NN
Exalted in Aries•••Jupiter

(#2) Taurus:
Domicled ruler(s)•••(Gaia's) Age-indicator + SN
Regulator••••• :uranus:
Motivator••• Jupiter
Benefactor(s)••• (Apollo's) Ascendant + Chiron
Exalted in Taurus••• Venus

(#3) Gemini:
Domicled ruler••• Mercury
Regulator••• Neptune
Motivator••• Venus
Benefactor••• Saturn
Exalted in Gemini••• Pluto + NN

(#4) :cancer:
Domicled ruler••• Moon
Regulator••• Mars
Motivator(s)••• Pluto + NN
Benefactor••••• :uranus:
Exalted in :cancer:••• (Apollo's) Ascendant + Chiron

(#5) Leo
Domicled ruler••• Sun
Regulator(s)••• (Gaia's) Age-indicator + SN
Motivator(s)••• (Apollo's) Ascendant + Chiron
Benefactor••• Neptune
Exalted in Leo••• Saturn

(#6) Virgo
Domicled ruler••• Jupiter
Regulator••• Mercury
Motivator••• Saturn
Benefactor••• Mars
Exalted in Virgo••••• :uranus:

(#7) Libra
Domicled ruler••• Venus
Regulator••• Moon
Motivator••••• :uranus:
Benefactor(s)••• (Gaia's) Age-indicator +SN
Exalted in Libra••• Neptune

(#8) Scorpio
Domicled ruler(s)••• Pluto + NN
Regulator••• Sun
Motivator••• Neptune
Benefactor••• Mercury
Exalted in Scorpio••• Mars

(#9) Sagittarius
Domicled ruler(s)••• (Apollo's) Ascendant + Chiron
Regulator••• Jupiter
Motivator••• Mars
Benefactor••• Moon
Exalted in Sagittarius••• (Gaia's) Age-indicator + SN

(#10) Capricorn
Domicled ruler••• Saturn
Regulator••• Venus
Motivator(s)••• (Gaia's) Age-indicator + SN
Benefactor••• Sun
Exalted in Capricorn••• Mercury

(#11) Aquarius
Domicled ruler••••• :uranus:
Regulator••• Pluto + NN
Motivator••• Mercury
Benefactor••• Jupiter
Exalted in Aquarius••• Moon

(#12) Pisces
Domicled ruler••• Neptune
Regulator(s)••• (Apollo's) Ascendant + Chiron
Motivator••• Moon
Benefactor••• Venus
Exalted in Pisces••• Sun

There's a consistent method used to delineate the above rulership combinations, which I'm calling the "12/12 Pattern".

Finally all in one place
 

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
David, my father's Juno conjunct exactly at my mother's Sun. Why you are not consider assign Juno rather than assign Chiron in 12/12 theory? You could assign her to constellation Libra as nativity sign. Make a sense right? Juno=Libra. :biggrin:

Opinion

R
 

david starling

Well-known member
David, my father's Juno conjunct exactly at my mother's Sun. Why you are not consider assign Juno rather than assign Chiron in 12/12 theory? You could assign her to constellation Libra as nativity sign. Make a sense right? Juno=Libra. :biggrin:

Opinion

R

The basic 12/12 structural integrity is from Sun, Moon, Mercury thru Pluto, the Ascendant, as leading point of Apollo's Triangle (comprised of Asc, M.C., & Desc.), and the Earth's Age-indicator. I'm adding secondary Domicile-rulers, one at a time, and I'm definitely going to add Ceres as secondary ruler of Cardinal-Fire. Not sure about Juno yet.
 

david starling

Well-known member
David, my father's Juno conjunct exactly at my mother's Sun. Why you are not consider assign Juno rather than assign Chiron in 12/12 theory? You could assign her to constellation Libra as nativity sign. Make a sense right? Juno=Libra. :biggrin:

Opinion

R

The Greco-Roman connection is a strong one for me. But I could see inserting Juno as a secondary Domicile-ruler of Libra, given her attributes, even though Hera/Juno was married to Zeus/Jupiter, Domicle-ruler of Virgo. He Regulates Sagittarius, and that would make Hera/Juno secondary Regulator of Capricorn.
 

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
Hhmm I thought you should consider to assign her. In Gemini (maybe) because I see void in her exaltation. :whistling: (little bit suspicious in fact your sun is in Pisces)

Yeay ... My Moon, Mercury, and Uranus is exaltation in your 12/12
:biggrin:

Wishing well

R
 

david starling

Well-known member
Hhmm I thought you should consider to assign her. In Gemini (maybe) because I see void in her exaltation. :whistling: (little bit suspicious in fact your sun is in Pisces)

Yeay ... My Moon, Mercury, and Uranus is exaltation in your 12/12
:biggrin:

Wishing well

R

The 12/12 is based on the Modalities and Elements. Do these apply in your sidereal motif?
If Hera/Juno is assigned as secondary Domicile-ruler of Libra, she'd be Exalted in Taurus.
 
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SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
The 12/12 is based on the Modalities and Elements. Do these apply in your sidereal motif?
If Hera/Juno is assigned as secondary Domicile-ruler of Libra, she'd be Exalted in Taurus.

Oh okay, I see it now.

No, that's not my intention to apply your theory in sidereal. I'm just a student of astrology after all, my Aquarius moon just can't stop to learning everything. :biggrin:

Juno/Hera seems like make a sense
 
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