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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #1  
Unread 09-03-2021, 08:34 PM
honeysweet honeysweet is offline
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Is mutual reception by term a point of consideration?

Exactly what the title says...! How much importance would you place on two planets receiving each other by term? Throwing aside all other dignities they might have.

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  #2  
Unread 09-03-2021, 08:37 PM
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Re: Is mutual reception by term a point of consideration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeysweet View Post

Exactly what the title says...!
How much importance would you place
on two planets receiving each other by term?
Throwing aside all other dignities they might have.

If this is an Horary based question it belongs on our Horary board



.
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  #3  
Unread 09-03-2021, 10:51 PM
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Re: Is mutual reception by term a point of consideration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
If this is an Horary based question it belongs on our Horary board



.

Nope, was asking from a natal perspective! I was debating asking on natal astrology but I figured most people there would not think about terms at all, so I chose this board.
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  #4  
Unread 09-04-2021, 12:11 PM
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Re: Is mutual reception by term a point of consideration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeysweet View Post


Nope, was asking from a natal perspective!

I was debating asking on natal astrology
but I figured most people there would not think about terms at all, so

I chose this board.

Good choice - Reception by Domicile &
Reception by Exaltation

are called "...Perfect Reception..."
and hold the most weight.

Receptions by triplicity, term or face are weaker.
technically speaking
reception may be by face alone
or term alone
but it would be a very weak reception

compared to the stronger ones
It's still a reception, just an IMPERFECT RECEPTION.
An imperfect reception isn't that noticeable.
It's there but it's relatively minor.
When the planet has at least two minor dignities that it's received in
THEN pay attention to it as a reception.

Some ancient traditional authors
gave them more weight when the planet is received in two minor dignities.
i.e.
a planet couldn't be received at all with just term, triplicity, or face
- it had to have at least two minor dignities
in order to even qualify as a reception.
Understanding what each of the dignities do
and
how they are different from each other
THEN it's clearer
that reception by anything other than Domicile and Exaltation
is WEAK
i.e.

common analogy is that no-one but the owner
or steward of the house
has the authority to invite anyone into that house
and allow anyone to use its resources.

So being a triplicity lord
and
being a bound lord
is not the same as being the Domicile lord.
NEVERTHELESS
A planet in its term has its nature reinforced
and
a planet in triplicity is supported.
The planet may not be the domicile lord
but it does have something to offer, even in that state.


study earliest available texts from the earliest to Lilly
and you'll see a subtle shift
in the way the minor dignities are interpreted.
Realisation of this subtlety adds to one's predictions. Instead of saying

'...Saturn in his own bounds is a little dignified...'
one can say
'....Saturn in his own bounds means that he will produce his own significations
while setting his own limits on these outcomes'


The analogies given by later astrologers
tend the emphasise the differing strengths of the dignities
but not the different functions.
Originally, Domicile lord seen as the steward of the house
Exaltation lord the owner who visits only occasionally
i.e.
it is a big deal when they are in residence
and
Bound lord is a servant attached to a particular room
like a chef or cook

The overall condition of the house
that is the building itself, by analogy
is found by its position from the ascendant and its aspects.
How well it is run, its relationship to its domicile lord
and that lord's condition.
Its occupants exact roles and manifestation is found via their bound lord.

Each planet works in the house it is in
WITH the Domicile lord hinting at
what end and purpose
and then
the Bound lord shows how it attempts to achieve that purpose.


Perfect Reception is by Sign, Exaltation
Triplicity AND Term
or
Triplicity AND Decan.
Reception is about "...allowing..."
A Planet that receives another Planet
is allowing that Planet to act.
When you come into my home (Sign/Exaltation)
you can eat all my food, drink all my beer
swim in my pool, shower.





.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #5  
Unread 09-04-2021, 11:03 PM
honeysweet honeysweet is offline
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Re: Is mutual reception by term a point of consideration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Good choice - Reception by Domicile &
Reception by Exaltation

are called "...Perfect Reception..."
and hold the most weight.

Receptions by triplicity, term or face are weaker.
technically speaking
reception may be by face alone
or term alone
but it would be a very weak reception

compared to the stronger ones
It's still a reception, just an IMPERFECT RECEPTION.
An imperfect reception isn't that noticeable.
It's there but it's relatively minor.
When the planet has at least two minor dignities that it's received in
THEN pay attention to it as a reception.

Some ancient traditional authors
gave them more weight when the planet is received in two minor dignities.
i.e.
a planet couldn't be received at all with just term, triplicity, or face
- it had to have at least two minor dignities
in order to even qualify as a reception.
Understanding what each of the dignities do
and
how they are different from each other
THEN it's clearer
that reception by anything other than Domicile and Exaltation
is WEAK
i.e.

common analogy is that no-one but the owner
or steward of the house
has the authority to invite anyone into that house
and allow anyone to use its resources.

So being a triplicity lord
and
being a bound lord
is not the same as being the Domicile lord.
NEVERTHELESS
A planet in its term has its nature reinforced
and
a planet in triplicity is supported.
The planet may not be the domicile lord
but it does have something to offer, even in that state.


study earliest available texts from the earliest to Lilly
and you'll see a subtle shift
in the way the minor dignities are interpreted.
Realisation of this subtlety adds to one's predictions. Instead of saying

'...Saturn in his own bounds is a little dignified...'
one can say
'....Saturn in his own bounds means that he will produce his own significations
while setting his own limits on these outcomes'


The analogies given by later astrologers
tend the emphasise the differing strengths of the dignities
but not the different functions.
Originally, Domicile lord seen as the steward of the house
Exaltation lord the owner who visits only occasionally
i.e.
it is a big deal when they are in residence
and
Bound lord is a servant attached to a particular room
like a chef or cook

The overall condition of the house
that is the building itself, by analogy
is found by its position from the ascendant and its aspects.
How well it is run, its relationship to its domicile lord
and that lord's condition.
Its occupants exact roles and manifestation is found via their bound lord.

Each planet works in the house it is in
WITH the Domicile lord hinting at
what end and purpose
and then
the Bound lord shows how it attempts to achieve that purpose.


Perfect Reception is by Sign, Exaltation
Triplicity AND Term
or
Triplicity AND Decan.
Reception is about "...allowing..."
A Planet that receives another Planet
is allowing that Planet to act.
When you come into my home (Sign/Exaltation)
you can eat all my food, drink all my beer
swim in my pool, shower.





.



Got it! Thank you so much for the long reply.
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  #6  
Unread 09-05-2021, 12:02 AM
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Re: Is mutual reception by term a point of consideration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Good choice - Reception by Domicile &
Reception by Exaltation

are called "...Perfect Reception..."
and hold the most weight.

Receptions by triplicity, term or face are weaker.
technically speaking
reception may be by face alone
or term alone
but it would be a very weak reception

compared to the stronger ones
It's still a reception, just an IMPERFECT RECEPTION.
An imperfect reception isn't that noticeable.
It's there but it's relatively minor.
When the planet has at least two minor dignities that it's received in
THEN pay attention to it as a reception.

Some ancient traditional authors
gave them more weight when the planet is received in two minor dignities.
i.e.
a planet couldn't be received at all with just term, triplicity, or face
- it had to have at least two minor dignities
in order to even qualify as a reception.
Understanding what each of the dignities do
and
how they are different from each other
THEN it's clearer
that reception by anything other than Domicile and Exaltation
is WEAK
i.e.

common analogy is that no-one but the owner
or steward of the house
has the authority to invite anyone into that house
and allow anyone to use its resources.

So being a triplicity lord
and
being a bound lord
is not the same as being the Domicile lord.
NEVERTHELESS
A planet in its term has its nature reinforced
and
a planet in triplicity is supported.
The planet may not be the domicile lord
but it does have something to offer, even in that state.


study earliest available texts from the earliest to Lilly
and you'll see a subtle shift
in the way the minor dignities are interpreted.
Realisation of this subtlety adds to one's predictions. Instead of saying

'...Saturn in his own bounds is a little dignified...'
one can say
'....Saturn in his own bounds means that he will produce his own significations
while setting his own limits on these outcomes'


The analogies given by later astrologers
tend the emphasise the differing strengths of the dignities
but not the different functions.
Originally, Domicile lord seen as the steward of the house
Exaltation lord the owner who visits only occasionally
i.e.
it is a big deal when they are in residence
and
Bound lord is a servant attached to a particular room
like a chef or cook

The overall condition of the house
that is the building itself, by analogy
is found by its position from the ascendant and its aspects.
How well it is run, its relationship to its domicile lord
and that lord's condition.
Its occupants exact roles and manifestation is found via their bound lord.

Each planet works in the house it is in
WITH the Domicile lord hinting at
what end and purpose
and then
the Bound lord shows how it attempts to achieve that purpose.


Perfect Reception is by Sign, Exaltation
Triplicity AND Term
or
Triplicity AND Decan.
Reception is about "...allowing..."
A Planet that receives another Planet
is allowing that Planet to act.
When you come into my home (Sign/Exaltation)
you can eat all my food, drink all my beer
swim in my pool, shower.

A very generous and thoughtful reply.
Thank you.
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  #7  
Unread 12-14-2021, 03:39 PM
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Re: Is mutual reception by term a point of consideration?

Mutual reception by term works quite well, imo. I have one example, see Eleonar Roosevelt's birth chart:
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Roosevelt,_Eleanor


Mars and Jupiter in mutual reception by bound (or term) is her visits to hospitalized soldiers in the middle of second world war.
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  #8  
Unread 12-14-2021, 11:14 PM
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Re: Is mutual reception by term a point of consideration?

Generally I think you're talking about "reception," not mutual reception, which normally goes by domicile. Some astrologers would also want a major aspect with that.

But lesser orders of essential dignities can swap with one another. It's just not so strong.
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Unread 12-15-2021, 03:07 AM
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Re: Is mutual reception by term a point of consideration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeysweet View Post
Exactly what the title says...! How much importance would you place on two planets receiving each other by term? Throwing aside all other dignities they might have.

Not much. Marginal.
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  #10  
Unread 12-15-2021, 11:48 AM
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Re: Is mutual reception by term a point of consideration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post


Generally I think you're talking about "...reception..." not mutual reception
which normally goes by domicile.
Some astrologers would also want a major aspect with that.
But lesser orders of essential dignities can swap with one another. It's just not so strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeysweet View Post



Exactly what the title says...!



How much importance
would you place on two planets receiving each other by term?

Throwing aside all other dignities they might have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post

Not much. Marginal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by satya7 View Post



Mutual reception by term works quite well, imo.


I have one example, see Eleonar Roosevelt's birth chart:
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Roosevelt,_Eleanor

Mars and Jupiter in mutual reception by bound (or term) is her visits to hospitalized soldiers
in the middle of second world war.
Clearly, as ever, generalisation is unreliable
as evidenced by
the excellent example of mutual reception by term
provided by satya7


.
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  #11  
Unread 12-15-2021, 04:50 PM
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Re: Is mutual reception by term a point of consideration?

JA, you used to cite ex-member Paul extensively. He was the one who informed me about "reception" vs. mutual reception.

See "reception" in the glossary at Skyscript, the traditional astrology site. https://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/reception.html

With reception, there is the sense of a planet "receiving" another planet, a concept frequently used in horary astrology.

Traditionally mutual reception requires a Ptolemaic aspect. It seems to me, however, that if two planets are in aspect they already have a strong relationship independently of reception.
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  #12  
Unread 12-15-2021, 05:47 PM
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Re: Is mutual reception by term a point of consideration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post


JA, you used to cite ex-member Paul extensively.
WB by all means cite _Paul since you clearly need to

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

He was the one who informed me
about "...reception..." vs. mutual reception.
See "reception" in the glossary at Skyscript, the traditional astrology site.
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/reception.html
With reception, there is the sense of a planet "...receiving..." another planet,
a concept frequently used in horary astrology.
Traditionally mutual reception requires a Ptolemaic aspect.

It seems to me, however, that if two planets are in aspect
they already have a strong relationship independently of reception.
Indeed
apparently you did not notice my comment earlier on this thread
which I now quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

Reception by Domicile & Reception by Exaltation
are called "...Perfect Reception..."
and hold the most weight.


Receptions by triplicity, term or face are weaker.
technically speaking
reception may be by face alone
or term alone
but it would be a very weak reception
compared to the stronger ones


It's still a reception, just an IMPERFECT RECEPTION



An imperfect reception isn't that noticeable.
It's there but it's relatively minor.


When the planet has at least two minor dignities that it's received in
THEN pay attention to it as a reception.

Some ancient traditional authors
gave them more weight
when the planet is received in two minor dignities.

i.e.
a planet couldn't be received at all with just term, triplicity, or face
- it had to have at least two minor dignities
in order to even qualify as a reception.

Understanding what each of the dignities do
and
how they are different from each other
THEN it's clearer
that reception by anything other than Domicile and Exaltation
is WEAK


i.e.
common analogy is
that no-one but the owner
or steward of the house
has the authority to invite anyone into that house
and allow anyone to use its resources.

So being a triplicity lord
and
being a bound lord
is not the same as being the Domicile lord.
NEVERTHELESS
A planet in its term has its nature reinforced
and
a planet in triplicity is supported.
The planet may not be the domicile lord
but it does have something to offer, even in that state.


study earliest available texts from the earliest to Lilly
and you'll see a subtle shift
in the way the minor dignities are interpreted.
Realisation of this subtlety adds to one's predictions. Instead of saying

'...Saturn in his own bounds is a little dignified...'
one can say
'....Saturn in his own bounds means that he will produce his own significations
while setting his own limits on these outcomes'


The analogies given by later astrologers
tend the emphasise the differing strengths of the dignities
but not the different functions.
Originally, Domicile lord seen as the steward of the house
Exaltation lord the owner who visits only occasionally

i.e.
it is a big deal when they are in residence
and
Bound lord is a servant attached to a particular room
like a chef or cook

The overall condition of the house
that is the building itself, by analogy
is found by its position from the ascendant and its aspects.
How well it is run, its relationship to its domicile lord
and that lord's condition.
Its occupants exact roles and manifestation is found via their bound lord.

Each planet works in the house it is in
WITH the Domicile lord hinting at
what end and purpose
and then
the Bound lord shows how it attempts to achieve that purpose.


Perfect Reception is by Sign, Exaltation
Triplicity AND Term
or
Triplicity AND Decan.
Reception is about "...allowing..."
A Planet that receives another Planet
is allowing that Planet to act.
When you come into my home (Sign/Exaltation)
you can eat all my food, drink all my beer
swim in my pool, shower.





.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #13  
Unread 12-15-2021, 06:09 PM
StarDust1 StarDust1 is offline
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Re: Is mutual reception by term a point of consideration?

There is a website contribution by Andrew J. Bevan that gives a succinct interpretation in minute detail of the dignities and receptions:https://www.astronor.com/dignities.htm. Here is a synopsis of some of that information.


Quote:
CLASSICAL RECEPTIONS

Two planets appearing in each others lesser dignities implies a finer meaning which may be delineated as below. One planet offers virtue to another planet according to the nature or quality of essential dignity of the second planet, that the first planet is located in.



Face - Face : Sympathy, liking, chemistry, recalling of face, sharing of stalls, favoring, but slight and unfounded, offering a vote but without power or say; Consider nature of relationship.

Face - Term : observation, recognition between speaker and member of the audience, a witness, reference of minor relevance, putting in a good word, passing the instructions to someone present, someone who will negotiate case, deciding the appearance of another, but with limited power for mutual collaboration.

Face - Triplicity : possibility, opportunity, a sympathetic gesture, effort to make a good impression, recommendation, introduction to a social circle, finding a friend, hospitality, stepping stone, being given a leg, receiving a voucher, someone sending round the hat.

Face - Exaltation : making oneself noticed, loud appearance, excitement, encouragement, enthusiasm, demonstrative, boasting, fierce, taking the liberty, substitution, promotion, excess, the claims of a supporter, an unfit match, being on thin ice.

Face - Sign : assistance, improvement, agreement concerning appearances, acting correctly, adequately furnished, pleasing style, having a good and relevant reference, appreciation, welcome, permission, strong and trustworthy representation, loyalty, benefit, backup system, meeting of taste.



Term - Term : agreement, understanding, reasoning, attunement, philosophical, practical, complementary, mutual interests, sharing of work, comprehension, signing of contracts, performing business, positive, settled, apt, on standby, convincing and potent but still needs power and boost from other indications.

Term - Triplicity : valid ideas, talent, early discovery, a co-partner providing means, mutual appreciation, admiration, amendable, easy negotiation, comfort, well-phrased, a satisfactory arrangement, topical issues, creativity, potential, social relevance, meeting useful people.

Term - Exaltation : forceful, potent, business, thrust, speed, impatient, talented, nimble, pioneering ideas, debate, deliberate, sharp, acute, keen, competitive, accentuated, skilled, ambition, express, direct, making oneself heard.

Term - Sign : representation, understanding, a good case, having an agent or spokesman, performance, knowledgeable, truthful, viable reference, skill, good advice, management, acceptance, suitable arrangement, correct design, the meeting of requirements.



Triplicity - Triplicity: prospects, association, practical, support, financial partnership, sharing, amendable, wide agreement, founded, can be funded, gathering of people, attunement, going together, possibilities, looking into, comfort, acceptable backing, social status, friendly rather than affectionate.

Triplicity - Exaltation: enthusiasm, eagerness, keen, hope, expectation, making assumptions, liberty, free spending, optimism, support, promise, sponsored, promotion, reputation, favored, popularity, forwarding close association from club or family, confidence, modern, new, searching improvement, investment, resource, campaign, response, credit, up-grade, good outlook, looking for a good time.

Triplicity - Sign: value, acceptance, alliance, support, safety, on reliable grounds, friend of amiable status, accessible, qualified, on display, in the open, neat, well-planned, cultivated, supplies in stock, quality, several people.



Exaltation - Exaltation: mutually eager, temperamental, passion, accentuated, forceful, reckless, potent, prominent, assertive, in the foreground, ambitious.

Exaltation - Sign: appointed, marshal, executive, deputy, chief, in command, knighthood, prince, potent, promoted, awarded, stardom, favorite, promising, honor, glamour, undeniable, convincing, apt, competitive, resourceful, equipped, armored, ambassador.

--------------------------------------------------

There are two other variations that I have been working with since the mid 80's and which Olivia Barclay refers to in her prize-winning book 'Horary Astrology Rediscovered', 1990:

The Deception

This is a difficult combination of signs between planets that occurs when one planet appears in the dignity of a second planet but is located in the detriment or fall of the first. An example would be Mars in Cancer with the Moon in Libra, or Saturn in Pisces with Venus in Leo. This is the description of an unequal match, because although the one planet may have lots to offer and fortify his comrade, the second planet does nothing but embarrass the first, or put that planet in an awkward predicament. It is an unequal trade, a difficult relationship and like a karmic hang-over.

The Rejection

Is when two planets appear in each others detriment or fall, i.e. Jupiter in Aries and Saturn in Gemini, or Mercury in Cancer and Mars in Sagittarius. Under these conditions the planets 'abhor' each other, perfection is denied and matters are aborted.
Much thanks to Jupiter for a thorough interpretation

StarDust1
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