Trauma Question

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could see traumatic experiences or tendencies to experience trauma in my natal chart? If you can, could you identify the nature of the traumatic experiences?

Thank you to anyone who responds!

I'm not sure how you mean "trauma." If it's an emotionally troubling experience. Saturn- moon suggests feeling pessimistic or sad. The second house relates to one's money and belongings.

"Trauma" also has a physical meaning, indicating an injury.

Uranus and Mars are typically associated with trauma. Mars looks well-aspected, but sun square Uranus suggests the possibility of trauma. With the sun in Aries and Uranus in the first house, I would think a head trauma is most likely.

waybread said:

I'm not sure how you mean "trauma." If it's an emotionally troubling experience. Saturn- moon suggests feeling pessimistic or sad. The second house relates to one's money and belongings.

"Trauma" also has a physical meaning, indicating an injury.

Uranus and Mars are typically associated with trauma. Mars looks well-aspected, but sun square Uranus suggests the possibility of trauma. With the sun in Aries and Uranus in the first house, I would think a head trauma is most likely.

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Thank you for responding, waybread! Much appreciation!

I meant more within the realm of emotional trauma. I'm told it is abnormal the amount of experiences I've had that are traumatic and psychologically damaging, so I was wondering if these traumas appear in the natal.

These are very personal experiences, but I'm pretty open about them.

I grew up in a very turbulent household. My brother was physically abusive to myself as well as my parents. My parents were physically abusive to my brother. I didn't think I would live long enough to make it out of my home and I'm still afraid when I visit that I will be killed,etc. I had to give permission first to be hit, because he would threaten my dog or cat, etc. I'm adopted but told that I'm not real family like my brother, who is their biological son.

There's been sexual abuse by 3 different people before I turned age 10. I was bullied by the sisters my mom babysat when I was a toddler to kindergarten age and the neighborhood girls until I was age 6, but I didn't realize they were mean, even when they stole my bike and pushed me off a halfpipe in a stroller and told me I was rude for asking to have lunch with them etc. I was very confused. I was bullied in junior high, pushed down the stairs, spat on, etc.

Many people I've been close to have died suddenly.

I've experienced PTSD-like symptoms and flashbacks, dissociative states, etc. My last therapist called my experiences complex-PTSD and explained that most of my life qualifies in some way or other as traumatic to the point that it is normalized for me.

Anyway, I was just wondering if these experiences appear in the natal.

Oh and I'm doing a lot better these past few years. I feel like I'm really starting to heal and working on myself, so please don't feel sorry for me! I have a generally positive outlook on life and am very thankful for my experiences. I wouldn't be who I am without these experiences is all.

MoonKat, I'm sorry you had such a rough time.

One thing you might consider is putting your chart into whole signs. Placidus works fine for most people, but whole signs moves your Pisces planets into the third house, where the trouble with your brother and neighborhood girls make more sense. Whole signs also puts combative Mars as the ruler of your 4th house of parents and early childhood conditioning.

People with afflictions to the moon often (not always) suffer from mental health issues. PTSD would be in this category.

A bright spot in your chart is your domiciled Venus in Taurus. You may have some artistic ability such as singing or ceramics, even if you have no formal training.

With Neptune-Uranus in your first house, I imagine that school kids found you unusual or different in some way. With Neptune and Uranus square sun, it can be hard to sustain a firm and clear sense of identity.

waybread said:

MoonKat, I'm sorry you had such a rough time.

One thing you might consider is putting your chart into whole signs. Placidus works fine for most people, but whole signs moves your Pisces planets into the third house, where the trouble with your brother and neighborhood girls make more sense. Whole signs also puts combative Mars as the ruler of your 4th house of parents and early childhood conditioning.

People with afflictions to the moon often (not always) suffer from mental health issues. PTSD would be in this category.

A bright spot in your chart is your domiciled Venus in Taurus. You may have some artistic ability such as singing or ceramics, even if you have no formal training.

With Neptune-Uranus in your first house, I imagine that school kids found you unusual or different in some way. With Neptune and Uranus square sun, it can be hard to sustain a firm and clear sense of identity.

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Thank you waybread, I find that whole signs idea really interesting!

I agree kids found me unusual personality-wise I think. I am told frequently that I'm unusual/unique, but I haven't had an issue with bullying for a while. Actually, it was easy to single me out as a kid, because I grew up in a small town, and there were only a few other Asians. I sometimes wonder if I stood out because of that. I definitely got a few racist comments growing up.

I wouldn't say I'm talented at singing or ceramics necessarily, but I do odd craft activities now and then. I used to use a glue gun to make 3-D sculptures, like layering the glue on top of each other so the sculpture was pure glue. lol I was into wire sculpture and I used to get together with my childhood friend, who had a similar upbringing and we'd make a 3-D version of candyland the board game, but with actual candy. I'm a bit of an oddball, but I like it. haha

Hi,
I would personally think of traumatic situations as an influence from a harshly aspected Pluto.
There is an out-of-sign- square between natal Chiron in Virgo (Earth = physical) and Pluto.
Chiron opposes Moon-Saturn which are semi-square Uranus-Neptune.
Even though experiences are separate, there is a link joining them to Pluto through Chiron.

I cheated a bit . I looked up the position of the astrological point MEAN Black Moon Lilith for the chart, which can reveal so much about the images of (un)acceptance created from childhood and how they can affect how further life is experienced. According to birth time, MEAN BML will with be at the very end of Aries or just into Taurus in 3rd house. It's out of orb with Pluto, yet squares Uranus ((un)-natural difference), and trines Chiron in the 8th house.

With such overall aspects, the remark, 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger' comes to mind.

The Sun square Neptune across 1st-3rd house could allow one 'to take one's self out of one's self' and dissociate from what is physically occuring. Do you perhaps find that other parts of you come to your rescue in difficult situations and enable you to overcome them, without you asking, 'where did that come from?' An integration rather than separation and disintegration of personality traits ( aspects to Uranus-Neptune conjunct Asc.)?
Pluto in positive aspect can be a force to be reckoned with where survival is concerned.

Frisiangal said:

Hi,
I would personally think of traumatic situations as an influence from a harshly aspected Pluto.
There is an out-of-sign- square between natal Chiron in Virgo (Earth = physical) and Pluto.
Chiron opposes Moon-Saturn which are semi-square Uranus-Neptune.
Even though experiences are separate, there is a link joining them to Pluto through Chiron.

I cheated a bit . I looked up the position of the astrological point MEAN Black Moon Lilith for the chart, which can reveal so much about the images of (un)acceptance created from childhood and how they can affect how further life is experienced. According to birth time, MEAN BML will with be at the very end of Aries or just into Taurus in 3rd house. It's out of orb with Pluto, yet squares Uranus ((un)-natural difference), and trines Chiron in the 8th house.

With such overall aspects, the remark, 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger' comes to mind.

The Sun square Neptune across 1st-3rd house could allow one 'to take one's self out of one's self' and dissociate from what is physically occuring. Do you perhaps find that other parts of you come to your rescue in difficult situations and enable you to overcome them, without you asking, 'where did that come from?' An integration rather than separation and disintegration of personality traits ( aspects to Uranus-Neptune conjunct Asc.)?
Pluto in positive aspect can be a force to be reckoned with where survival is concerned.

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Thank you, Frisiangal!

That's interesting about Mean Black Moon Lilith. I've looked at BML (h13) on my chart before and it's conjunct my Sun less than 1 degree. Does Mean BML and h13 BML have particular differences in meaning?

When you ask, 'Do you perhaps find that other parts of you come to your rescue in difficult situations and enable you to overcome them', what do you mean exactly?

passiflora said:

MoonKat, I’m also sorry for the pain you experienced for so long. I hope everything improves in your adult life.
Not much to add here from an interpretive standpoint. I do not use whole sign houses myself but it’s remarkable how much sense your chart makes using them.
So Pluto, your nn and Jupiter go into the 11th house. I suppose that could set you up for abuse by so-called friends or even “2nd from the 10th” figures in childhood.
Pluto is retrograding towards the node and the most advanced planet by degrees which I see as in his own sign, not being reined in by anyone.
Attachment trauma is the Moon-Saturn opposite Chiron.

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Thank you passiflora!

Whole signs is surprising to me. I just hadn't looked very closely at that in application to my chart.

I definitely struggle with attachment. I always wanted friendship and intimacy, but I can tend to be a little clingy or too distant or I flip flop between the two I think. I found most of my friends through drugs in college. Before then, I had a few friends, but we never talked about deep stuff really. Most of the people in my high school didn't realize I had a brother and I never spoke about what was going on at home.

When I got to college and made friends and started talking about little tidbits from my childhood, my friends kept telling me it all sounded f*cked up and that even my mother, who I thought was the only healthy relationship in my life, was controlling and borderline emotionally abusive. It was a big shock. I used to have mental meltdowns once a semester about it all. Usually after a bad dream memory from my childhood. The school counselors always said I needed more help than they could give me, so I'd go and cry for a couple hours in their offices unleashing all the memories and then I'd just lock it all back up and go about life again.

Anyway, I have better boundaries now and I think I'm really doing better with attachment. It's still not easy, but at least it's not soul crushing right now. I also have one intimate relationship. I think it's the first experience with genuine emotional intimacy I've ever had and I'm really happy!

moonkat235 said:

Thank you, Frisiangal!

That's interesting about Mean Black Moon Lilith. I've looked at BML (h13) on my chart before and it's conjunct my Sun less than 1 degree. Does Mean BML and h13 BML have particular differences in meaning?

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Checking with chart positions in the ephemeris for a birth date, and looking up MEAN BML's position on that day in the Astro. com ephemeris for the given year, MEAN BML had actually entered Taurus. Its glyph is on astro.com charts

Checking with positions for the same day for TRUE Black Moon Lilith in my 'Lilith' book, it was given as 25+degrees Aries in direct motion. I use close orbs for the Liliths, so would not count it as a conjunction.
TRUE BML is h13 in astro. com charts. From observation, it seems to surface in middle age.

I don't know which Black Moon Lilith would be partile natal Sun. Perhaps the asteroid or hypothetical Waldemath Black Moon?

When you ask, 'Do you perhaps find that other parts of you come to your rescue in difficult situations and enable you to overcome them', what do you mean exactly?

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The planets in their signs refer to inherent traits in a person. In most people they are integrated into a complete personality, working for or, possibly, against each other, and not always consciously.
A prominent Neptune has been observed to coincide in those instances when dis-association, dis-integration, dis-placement, dis-orientation within the psyche (Sun) occurs. A link with Uranus can see a separational shift into individual traits in one's nature, e.g. Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, etc., that can completely take over when a situation calls for it, without the individual being consciously aware of it.
It doesn't always happen, but it can. A defence mechanism can work in one's favour when the need arises.

Frisiangal said:

Checking with chart positions in the ephemeris for a birth date, and looking up MEAN BML's position on that day in the Astro. com ephemeris for the given year, MEAN BML had actually entered Taurus. Its glyph is on astro.com charts

Checking with positions for the same day for TRUE Black Moon Lilith in my 'Lilith' book, it was given as 25+degrees Aries in direct motion. I use close orbs for the Liliths, so would not count it as a conjunction.
TRUE BML is h13 in astro. com charts. From observation, it seems to surface in middle age.

I don't know which Black Moon Lilith would be partile natal Sun. Perhaps the asteroid or hypothetical Waldemath Black Moon?

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I've never used an ephemeris before, but h13, when put into astro.com, gives me 18 Aries 1'.

Frisiangal said:

The planets in their signs refer to inherent traits in a person. In most people they are integrated into a complete personality, working for or, possibly, against each other, and not always consciously.
A prominent Neptune has been observed to coincide in those instances when dis-association, dis-integration, dis-placement, dis-orientation within the psyche (Sun) occurs. A link with Uranus can see a separational shift into individual traits in one's nature, e.g. Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, etc., that can completely take over when a situation calls for it, without the individual being consciously aware of it.
It doesn't always happen, but it can. A defence mechanism can work in one's favour when the need arises.

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Ahhh now I see more of what you're saying. Very interesting. I actually do think I have distinct facets of myself that come to the forefront when I need. I have an on-stage presence. I've called it that for a long time. It's when I need to present well for the situation, when I don't feel up to it.

It's interesting, but it kind of sounds like dissociative identity disorder when you describe it like that. Back in 2016, I was worried that I was developing that, but that was mostly due to my hearing auditory hallucinations. There was a hypercritical girl and a chill dude and a little girl and they'd talk about me all the time. I read a book on dissociation and then started treating the voices as if they were sides of me. It really helped keep me sane.

Then I got diagnosed with schizophrenia after it had been going on for 6 months and they put me on medication and I started doing therapy again. I don't hear them anymore.

Interestingly, I saw a Ted Talk on schizophrenia that treating the voices as subconscious manifestations of yourself is one form of treatment, combined with cognitive behavioral therapy. An example given in the Ted Talk was hearing voices say they are going to kill you if you go outside. Instead of reacting in fear or believing that it's a physical threat, you say, 'Thank you for bringing my attention to the fact that I feel unsafe right now'. I think that's generally how I handled that period of my life. The doctors said I had it very mild though and they're confused how I stopped taking medicine in the fall and seem to be doing much better.

passiflora said:

Attachment trauma is not uncommon in adoption cases. You can work on it, like you have been doing, and sometimes it still comes up and bites you leaving you breathless. Fortunately then you know what it is and know you've handled it previously

You're absolutely right that the process of unraveling carries its own set of risks. I think for you this is something to be thoughtful about with Pluto so close to your Pluto-ruled NN. I've mentioned a knitting analogy with Scorpio NN before, needing to knit together the world on a deep level, and maybe it's like knitting from a mushed pile of wikki stix instead of from a neatly rolled-up ball of fluffy yarn. You can actually unravel yourself in the unraveling process. So it's very important to work with someone as sensitive as you are and also skilled, and not let them just "throw bombs" into your consciousness. (Cap/Cancer 1H/7H, Moon-Saturn in Pisces) I'm sure your friend meant well, though. We often just don't know how to help each other. If you can, maybe pull on your Mercury to slow both Mars and Pluto down rather than letting Mars / Pluto lead the show.

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When I was 18, preparing for my tour of my birth country with my adoption agency, I found an article by Nancy Verrier called 'The Primal Wound'. It opened my eyes to the issue of adoption and how there's a lot of tangled up insidious aspects to it that people don't immediately see. It's also a book, but the article was enough for me.

Having bombs thrown into my consciousness might be painful, but it really helped me to recognize and acknowledge certain things in my life. I tend to disappear out of therapy when it starts to get a little too deep. There's a lot inside me that just doesn't want to be dealt with, but I'm trying to deal with it now.

You told, that you have been adopted. Are you sure your birthtime is accurate ?

For me- your chart doesn't correspond to your personal -very sad story- you had to go through - I feel very sorry for you to hear about.

Zora said:

You told, that you have been adopted. Are you sure your birthtime is accurate ?

For me- your chart doesn't correspond to your personal -very sad story- you had to go through - I feel very sorry for you to hear about.

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I emailed my orphanage to get my birth time. The social worker said a nurse had written it in my social work intake records. I assume it is correct.

It's okay, really. I feel like all the suffering has given me depth, allowed me insights that cannot be gained through any other way but suffering. I'm not banking on life getting easier and that's okay with me.

I have seen some charts of abused persons from them I know for sure- as well as my own girlfriend - who has been sexually abused by her father whole childhood- and her mother knew about. She suffered from it her whole life -till her death - also in her relationships.

In cases of physically heavy abuse- always pluto with strong, hard and near aspects and 8th house placements were involved. Or signs in 8th house giving an impression of shock experiences - like aquarius in 8th - the earthquake- constellation.


Birthtime is responsible for house cusps and correspondence in interpretation. That is why I asked for it's
accuracy.

Zora said:

I have seen some charts of abused persons from them I know for sure- as well as my own girlfriend - who has been sexually abused by her father whole childhood- and her mother knew about. She suffered from it her whole life -till her death - also in her relationships.

In cases of physically heavy abuse- always pluto with strong, hard and near aspects and 8th house placements were involved. Or signs in 8th house giving an impression of shock experiences - like aquarius in 8th - the earthquake- constellation.


Birthtime is responsible for house cusps and correspondence in interpretation. That is why I asked for it's
accuracy.

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I see. Hmmm, well switching my chart to whole signs paints a different picture than what placidus does. I wonder if it has to do with transits as well perhaps?

The day that Uranus transited my natal Sun, tNeptune was around my Moon-Saturn conjunction and Pluto was nearing my AC, but still a little far away for an outer transit. I checked myself into the hospital for auditory hallucinations that day.

tPluto has been in my 11th and 12th houses most of my life, but I'm not sure that's a strong enough marker for everything.

I'd say the physical abuse was secondary to the psychological bullying. My brother threatened physical violence far more than he was actually physically violent. He only had to be violent a few times for everyone to do what he wanted.

Hi again,
Thank you so much for the feedback, Moonkat, and the good news that you are managing your life well now. An effect of transit Pluto upon the small triangle?

I am wondering if what you termed dissociative identity disorder is what used to be known as multiple personality. Many years ago I did a deep study research, using the chart and life story of a severely abused victim. Her condition was said to be a result of Mars square Pluto (survival instinct?). It was amazing how MEAN BML made aspects to a planet that coincided with the identity that took over.

Schizophrenia also came to mind.

I think of the irreality of hallucinations as a creative form of MEAN BML rather than Neptune.
But that's just me.

Good luck in the future.

In case this makes some meaning,


venus-ketu separative SNode taurus 4th, detachment from mother-motherland-property;
love of food-comforts; pain-injury-surgery heart-lungs-teeth-throat etc

Sat-ketu now transit cap asc, pain-injury-surgery head-knees-feet to care;

Prayers to Christ, offer red flowers to Mother Goddess, fri evenings;


Scorpio 10th, inimical-malefic for cap asc, stress-delays in career-recognition;


jup-rahu NNode debilated scorpio, research-occult-forensic aptitudes,
vitiating judgment, rise-fall in life, not to indulge much into occult;
toxic urological-liver-knee issues;

prayers for ancestors, observe fast No-moon evenings;
observe death anniversaries religiously;
wear brown hessonite over pendant touching heart;

may float 1.25 pounds mustard seeds over clean flowing river tues after sunset;


do ack and share feedbacks how true-insightful-helpful,
traits-talents-health etc etc


wishing well, kshantaram

Zora said:

I have seen some charts of abused persons from them I know for sure- as well as my own girlfriend - who has been sexually abused by her father whole childhood- and her mother knew about. She suffered from it her whole life -till her death - also in her relationships.

In cases of physically heavy abuse- always pluto with strong, hard and near aspects and 8th house placements were involved. Or signs in 8th house giving an impression of shock experiences - like aquarius in 8th - the earthquake- constellation.


Birthtime is responsible for house cusps and correspondence in interpretation. That is why I asked for it's
accuracy.

Click to expand...

Even if you used that pattern as a rule of thumb for abuse in the natal, her chart fits your criteria with the exception of the discordant aspect. Pluto is prominent and pervasive in this chart since it is culminating and in conjunction with the NN. Then 8th house ruler is implicated in a Mars-Pluto aspect with said Mercury being in its fall as well as close to the tumultuous fixed star Scheat. You don't even look at the placement of Chiron if you don't delineate it, although that's another testimony of difficulty in that sphere of life if you do.

Trines are easy in the sense of unobstructed energy flow between planetary energy - doesn't necessarily translate as ease for the native. It's been shown that serial killers have a lot of trines in their charts, and many of them were abused before they began their rampages.

Frisiangal said:

Hi again,
Thank you so much for the feedback, Moonkat, and the good news that you are managing your life well now. An effect of transit Pluto upon the small triangle?

I am wondering if what you termed dissociative identity disorder is what used to be known as multiple personality. Many years ago I did a deep study research, using the chart and life story of a severely abused victim. Her condition was said to be a result of Mars square Pluto (survival instinct?). It was amazing how MEAN BML made aspects to a planet that coincided with the identity that took over.

Schizophrenia also came to mind.

I think of the irreality of hallucinations as a creative form of MEAN BML rather than Neptune.
But that's just me.

Good luck in the future.

Click to expand...

Wow that is really fascinating about Mean BML and the planet that coincided with the identity. I did mean dissociative identity disorder as the new name for multiple personality disorder. I think it's a USA thing to term it dissociative identity rather than multiple personality. I've never had a blackout though.

Thank you so much for all the information!

conspiracy theorist said:

Even if you used that pattern as a rule of thumb for abuse in the natal, her chart fits your criteria with the exception of the discordant aspect. Pluto is prominent and pervasive in this chart since it is culminating and in conjunction with the NN. Then 8th house ruler is implicated in a Mars-Pluto aspect with said Mercury being in its fall as well as close to the tumultuous fixed star Scheat. You don't even look at the placement of Chiron if you don't delineate it, although that's another testimony of difficulty in that sphere of life if you do.
Trines are easy in the sense of unobstructed energy flow between planetary energy - doesn't necessarily translate as ease for the native. It's been shown that serial killers have a lot of trines in their charts, and many of them were abused before they began their rampages.

Click to expand...

I am of different opinion and I hold on to it. And I did look on chiron in virgo. Who even also not is in a near exact aspect with other planets. 8th house is ruled by mercury - what is mercury/pluto correspondence and mental area. 8th house is not ruled by mars with mars pluto correspondence.


Mercury is in conjunct with mars in 2nd house – physical body house -ruled by neptune in capricorn being in sextile with neptune and uranus. Sun in aries in 3rd house (mental/mind) has no valid square to neptune and uranus.

If we have to look for trines as the causer for abuse - as what should hard aspects to be considered ? Would there then be hope in a chart- you can look for ?

I never work with star dusts asteroids. If the planet energies do not deliver clear advice for a certain event happened- star dust wouldn't help either.

For the sake of respect to the questioner's story - I do not want to discuss it further. But I do hold on to my opinion.