Can 6th House explain mental illness?

AppLeo

AppLeo

Well-known member
I know that astrology can't always explain mental disorders.

HOWEVER...

Because the 6th house represents our daily life and paying attention to the detail of the day-to-day boring stuff..

But you if you have Saturn or Pluto, or a square aspecting a planet in your 6th house, or the ruler of 6th in an intense part of your chart, that must mean that you struggle to commit to your daily tasks – like a normal person attending to their life. Which then leads me to conclude that the 6th house must show someone's insanity or irrational mentality.
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
AppLeo said:
I know that astrology can't always explain mental disorders.

HOWEVER...

Because the 6th house represents our daily life
and paying attention to the detail of the day-to-day boring stuff..
Click to expand...

Astrologers have differing opinions on this topic
dependent on methodology :smile:
i.e.
whether Modernist, Traditional, Vedic, Sidereal and so on

for example:
Traditional 6th House Main Rulerships:
Illness and disease. All matters relating to the health industry and those who work in it:
dentists, doctors, nurses.
Employees, tenants and servants. Also domestic issues gernerally;
this house has some relevance to domestic appliances that are purchased to ease day to day chores and laborious tasks.
Pets, small animals and lesser cattle
6th house also has a connection with farming and crops generally.
Generally this is regarded as a house of weakness and affliction.
As a cadent house it represents alien or unhelpful conditions http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h6.html

AppLeo said:
But you if you have Saturn or Pluto, or a square aspecting a planet in your 6th house,
or the ruler of 6th in an intense part of your chart
Click to expand...
Important to clarify what is meant by the phrase "an intense part of your chart"
AppLeo said:
that must mean that you struggle to commit to your daily tasks
– like a normal person attending to their life.
Which then leads me to conclude that
the 6th house must show someone's insanity or irrational mentality.
Click to expand...
not necessarily, because the entire chart requires assessment
 
craft94

craft94

Well-known member
AppLeo said:
I know that astrology can't always explain mental disorders.

HOWEVER...

Because the 6th house represents our daily life and paying attention to the detail of the day-to-day boring stuff..

But you if you have Saturn or Pluto, or a square aspecting a planet in your 6th house, or the ruler of 6th in an intense part of your chart, that must mean that you struggle to commit to your daily tasks – like a normal person attending to their life. Which then leads me to conclude that the 6th house must show someone's insanity or irrational mentality.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I think it does. Or at least it can. I agree with JA that the whole chart requires assessment but going strictly by personal experience, I have a stellium in the 6th house (opposite my SN conjunct Moon in the 12th), Scorpio and I think it explains my mental health issues better than any diagnosis ever could.
I have the benefics placed here but I'm not sure how benefic that really is. A Venus-Jupiter conjunction is not so good with daily every day tasks....

But I also know people with 6 house Suns who are always experiencing physical health problems - people with tons of allergies, asthma etc.
 
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AppLeo

AppLeo

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:

Astrologers have differing opinions on this topic
dependent on methodology :smile:
i.e.
whether Modernist, Traditional, Vedic, Sidereal and so on
Click to expand...


That's why I was wondering what everyone else thought.. Generally I want traditional and modern astrologer opinions. But I don't really know how the 6th house is different in Sidereal Astrology compared to Modern Astrology. Those forms of astrology are concerned with the zodiac not the house system. Even if it was the house system, it would only change the variation of the house size, not the definition. Unless the definition is different; I don't know.

I'm not expert and of course you know that because I've only been on this forum since I was 17 :smile:

JUPITERASC said:
for example:
Traditional 6th House Main Rulerships:
Illness and disease. All matters relating to the health industry and those who work in it:
dentists, doctors, nurses.
Employees, tenants and servants. Also domestic issues gernerally;
this house has some relevance to domestic appliances that are purchased to ease day to day chores and laborious tasks.
Pets, small animals and lesser cattle
6th house also has a connection with farming and crops generally.
Generally this is regarded as a house of weakness and affliction.
As a cadent house it represents alien or unhelpful conditions
Click to expand...
JUPITERASC said:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h6.html
Click to expand...


JUPITERASC said:
Important to clarify what is meant by the phrase "an intense part of your chart"
Click to expand...

Like.. a conjunction or aspect that is clearly highlighted in the chart. When I read charts, I find that some parts of the chart is more important than others.

But for example, for my 6th house I have Gemini. Having Gemini already in the 6th house seems pretty natural because Gemini is similar to Virgo. Rather than having a mental illness, which usually stems from some kind of irrationality of the brain, I'm not mentally ill.

Anyway, the ruler of my 6th house is Mercury. I have no planets in my 6th house, so gotta look at the ruler.

The ruler is in an intense part of my chart because it's in the 8th house conjunct the North Node and the Moon. I figured my "mental illness" would be fear and anxiety because the NN tends to intensify, especially the emotions and sensitivity when conjunct the moon, and this anxiety could be related to money, or deeper matters.

I don't know; I was just thinking about it.

And then I looked at Ayn Rands chart who has chiron in the 6th, Moon conjunct Mercury square Jupiter and in conjunct Pluto. Many ignorant people have considered her a psychopath, but I looked at her chart to see. Maybe she was traumatized psychologically when she grew up in Soviet Russia, so maybe that's why she's mentally ill. But mentally ill people are very irrational people, while Ayn Rand was not irrational at all. Capricorn ruling her 6th, with Moon and Mercury in the 6th points to a sound mind. Which explains why she's so logical and rejects things like religion, while many insane people use religion to do horrible stupid things.

JUPITERASC said:
not necessarily, because the entire chart requires assessment
Click to expand...

Well I mean, if you're looking for a specific thing in a chart, then the entire chart is irrelevant. If you're going to understand someone on how they interpret relationships, you would only look at Venus and the 7th house.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
AppLeo said:

That's why I was wondering what everyone else thought..
Generally I want traditional and modern astrologer opinions.
But I don't really know how the 6th house is different in Sidereal Astrology compared to Modern Astrology.
Those forms of astrology are concerned with the zodiac not the house system.
Even if it was the house system, it would only change the variation of the house size, not the definition.
Unless the definition is different; I don't know.

I'm not expert and of course you know that
because I've only been on this forum since I was 17 :smile:
Click to expand...
Well two years is awhile, but it depends on time spent on astrological study
It's possible I may have studied astrologer a few minutes longer than you have
BUT
 I'm no self-proclaimed expert either :smile:

Sidereal astrology IS different

here's a link to some interesting reading on SIDEREAL HOUSES INTERPRETATION
http://solunars.net/viewforum.php?f=26
so you can decide for yourself
 
craft94

craft94

Well-known member
AppLeo said:
That's why I was wondering what everyone else thought.. Generally I want traditional and modern astrologer opinions. But I don't really know how the 6th house is different in Sidereal Astrology compared to Modern Astrology. Those forms of astrology are concerned with the zodiac not the house system. Even if it was the house system, it would only change the variation of the house size, not the definition. Unless the definition is different; I don't know.

I'm not expert and of course you know that because I've only been on this forum since I was 17 :smile:






Like.. a conjunction or aspect that is clearly highlighted in the chart. When I read charts, I find that some parts of the chart is more important than others.

But for example, for my 6th house I have Gemini. Having Gemini already in the 6th house seems pretty natural because Gemini is similar to Virgo. Rather than having a mental illness, which usually stems from some kind of irrationality of the brain, I'm not mentally ill.

Anyway, the ruler of my 6th house is Mercury. I have no planets in my 6th house, so gotta look at the ruler.

The ruler is in an intense part of my chart because it's in the 8th house conjunct the North Node and the Moon. I figured my "mental illness" would be fear and anxiety because the NN tends to intensify, especially the emotions and sensitivity when conjunct the moon, and this anxiety could be related to money, or deeper matters.

I don't know; I was just thinking about it.

And then I looked at Ayn Rands chart who has chiron in the 6th, Moon conjunct Mercury square Jupiter and in conjunct Pluto. Many ignorant people have considered her a psychopath, but I looked at her chart to see. Maybe she was traumatized psychologically when she grew up in Soviet Russia, so maybe that's why she's mentally ill. But mentally ill people are very irrational people, while Ayn Rand was not irrational at all. Capricorn ruling her 6th, with Moon and Mercury in the 6th points to a sound mind. Which explains why she's so logical and rejects things like religion, while many insane people use religion to do horrible stupid things.



Well I mean, if you're looking for a specific thing in a chart, then the entire chart is irrelevant. If you're going to understand someone on how they interpret relationships, you would only look at Venus and the 7th house.
Click to expand...

Um, a Gemini 6th house does not necessarily make one "sane." By itself, one way I'd imagine it manifesting is by making one scattered with daily tasks. Also, the craziest (I hate this word) person I've ever known had their 6th house in Gemini: Mars was placed here. They had borderline personality disorder, they also told me they had PTSD and OCD and I suspect they probably had narcissistic personality disorder as well. Mercury, their 6th house ruler, was in the 8th house conjunct Venus and Chiron, square Pluto and opposite Saturn. A Gemini 6th house is no indication for sanity.

I'd also like to point out that mental illness, to some extent, IS culturally constructed, and sometimes, being "too rational" can be detrimental as well. This would be the case if you're a sociopath. Sociopaths are cut off from their emotions, not logic. I've heard Aspergers Syndrome be described this way as well. Anxiety and neurosis isn't "rational" but to some extent...it does come from being hyper aware, overthinking. It's not the same as being delusional. And no matter what your actual disorder is, it isn't mentally healthy to be cut off from your emotions (which could be the case if you're a hyper rational person)
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
AppLeo said:

Like.. a conjunction or aspect that is clearly highlighted in the chart.
When I read charts, I find that some parts of the chart
is more important than others.

But for example, for my 6th house I have Gemini.
Having Gemini already in the 6th house seems pretty natural
because Gemini is similar to Virgo.
Click to expand...
That's a Modernist perspective :smile:
Traditional methodology has another perspective
i.e.
CONSIDER THE THEMA MUNDI - an ancient astrology teaching tool


thema-mundi-large.jpg



tsmall provides the following example:

"....If you look at the Thema chart
take the 4th house. Libra, ruled by Venus (one of the traditional significations of the mother), the exaltation of Saturn.
If we play with the ideas a bit, Libra is the natural 4th house.
Saturn (the father) has a natural affinity with the 4th (well, that makes a ton of sense, now doesn't it?)
and is exalted by Venus in the house that signifies "home/roots."
This also gives us Saturn's affiliation with death, as the 4th represents death among other things....."
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
AppLeo said:
Rather than having a mental illness, which usually stems from some kind of irrationality of the brain, I'm not mentally ill.

Anyway, the ruler of my 6th house is Mercury.
I have no planets in my 6th house, so gotta look at the ruler.

The ruler is in an intense part of my chart
because it's in the 8th house
conjunct the North Node and the Moon.
I figured my "mental illness"
would be fear and anxiety

because the NN tends to intensify
especially the emotions and sensitivity when conjunct the moon, and this anxiety could be related to money, or deeper matters.
I don't know; I was just thinking about it.
Click to expand...
Traditionally, 8th House is a house of fear :smile:
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
AppLeo said:
And then I looked at Ayn Rands chart who has chiron in the 6th,
Moon conjunct Mercury square Jupiter and in conjunct Pluto.
Many ignorant people have considered her a psychopath,
but I looked at her chart to see. Maybe she was traumatized psychologically when she grew up in Soviet Russia,
so maybe that's why she's mentally ill.
But mentally ill people are very irrational people, while Ayn Rand was not irrational at all.
Capricorn ruling her 6th, with Moon and Mercury in the 6th points to a sound mind.
Which explains why she's so logical and rejects things like religion,
while many insane people use religion to do horrible stupid things.

Well I mean, if you're looking for a specific thing in a chart, then the entire chart is irrelevant.
If you're going to understand someone
on how they interpret relationships,
you would only look at Venus and the 7th house.
Click to expand...
Not all 6th House moons/Mercurys are necessary indicative of "sound mind"

because for example
From a traditional perspective Moon in Capricorn is in DETRIMENT :smile:
 
G

GeminiGrrl

Well-known member
Let me start off by pointing out that mental illness is to some extent a function of culture -- more specifically, a person's ability to adapt to the expectations of his or her culture (but diversity is by and large a beneficial thing and just because there is a cultural expectation doesn't necessarily mean that it's healthy for this person or indeed healthy for anyone). What might be considered serious psychological disturbance in one culture -- such as having hallucinations of your recently-deceased spouse during waking hours (which would in Western psychology be viewed as a potential symptom of psychosis) -- is not necessarily regarded as such in all cultures. (As an example, at least at one time, it was considered quite normal in Hopi culture to have hallucinations of your recently-deceased spouse -- and according to their tradition, if you did not have these visions, it implied that you did not truly love your spouse while he or she was alive.)

That being said, in my opinion, I think there certainly could be a number of astrological aspects which potentially could facilitate mental illness under the right circumstances (I prefer to believe that the natal chart reflects what you are predisposed to be, but that it is not necessarily destiny -- it represents the hand each one of us been dealt in this incarnation, but what we do with that hand is at least somewhat up to us.) This is even before you consider the fact that in Western culture (especially these days!) "mental illness" covers a very wide range of behavior -- potentially just about anything which is different and therefore considered abnormal (although sometimes normalcy is in itself little better than a mass aberration).

Insofar as the sixth house is concerned, I think it's possible that a highly-challenged Mercury in the sixth house -- such as one which forms a square or inconjunct with Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and/or Pluto (especially if located in the first, eighth, ninth, or twelfth house) and the Ascendant -- might lend itself to some form of mental disturbance since Mercury is believed to rule thought processes and those parts of the body most involved in and most affected by mental illness (the brain and other parts of the nervous system). The reverse of this aspect -- one of these other planets in the sixth house forming a highly challenging aspect with Mercury and/or other planets -- might facilitate that as well. A poorly-aspected Chiron in the sixth house, especially one which forms challenging aspects with Mercury, might be associated with this also since Chiron is thought by some to represent "the wound which never entirely heals" -- and many people with mental illness struggle with it throughout their entire lives. Indeed, most people with mental illness don't look at it as something that can be cured like measels...but rather as a chronic condition that must be managed, more like diabetes.
 
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AppLeo

AppLeo

Well-known member
craft94 said:
I'd also like to point out that mental illness, to some extent, IS culturally constructed, and sometimes, being "too rational" can be detrimental as well.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by culturally constructed? That people are forced or naturally become mentally ill because of society?

craft94 said:
This would be the case if you're a sociopath. Sociopaths are cut off from their emotions, not logic.
Click to expand...

Sure. But being strictly logical doesn't make you a sociopath. Sociopaths are very emotional, but not emotional in the empathic sense. They have uncontrollable rages, intense power/sex urges, addictions...those are all things regulated by your feelings. A robot is not a sociopath, basically.

You can have feelings and emotions, but to set them aside to make rational and logical decisions is probably the most important thing someone can do in their life life.

I would argue that it is logical and rational to feel emotions because they are another system to further life and make it more meaningful, but only if you control them logically. Maybe because I'm a Virgo Moon this makes sense to me, but whatever. Virgo Moons do become detached with their emotions, but to the point that it doesn't make sense anymore. They suffer from illogical logic. "I have to clean the house and do all of these things to make sure that I can be as healthy and awesome as can be." Meanwhile, they're killing themselves to attain these completely unrealistic goals and getting anxiety for not having enough vegetables as this time of day.

craft94 said:
I've heard Aspergers Syndrome be described this way as well. Anxiety and neurosis isn't "rational" but to some extent...it does come from being hyper aware, overthinking. It's not the same as being delusional. And no matter what your actual disorder is, it isn't mentally healthy to be cut off from your emotions (which could be the case if you're a hyper rational person)
Click to expand...

I guess.. just because you over think does not mean you're rational or logical. Thinking too much for too long, in the wrong places, at the wrong time, no matter how intellectual it is still irrational because you are not attending to your daily activities which is why I now realize that having Gemini in the 6th house can be mental illness and doesn't create a sound mind.

Aspergers syndrome isn't logical. There's nothing logical about avoiding eye contact and having no social skills. People with aspergers syndrome feel like not having social skills and avoiding eye contact, but not because they have a goal or logical reasoning behind it. If you try to look them in the eye, they get all weird or they feel fear or whatever.


JUPITERASC said:
Not all 6th House moons/Mercurys are necessary indicative of "sound mind"

because for example
From a traditional perspective Moon in Capricorn is in DETRIMENT :smile:
Click to expand...

Sure.
 
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F

Frisiangal

Well-known member
AppLeo said:
I know that astrology can't always explain mental disorders.

HOWEVER...

Because the 6th house represents our daily life and paying attention to the detail of the day-to-day boring stuff..

But you if you have Saturn or Pluto, or a square aspecting a planet in your 6th house, or the ruler of 6th in an intense part of your chart, that must mean that you struggle to commit to your daily tasks – like a normal person attending to their life. Which then leads me to conclude that the 6th house must show someone's insanity or irrational mentality.
Click to expand...

The 6th house can definitely 'explain' any disorder with which a person can be confronted, yet it isn't always necessarily 'mental' of nature. After all, everyone has the ability to think through Mercury.
The sign on the 6th house cusp describes the temperament, i.e. element, towards what you call 'the detail of the day-to-day boring stuff',....yet which may not always appear so to the individual concerned. The ruler's position of that cuspal sign will add its weight to any occuring issues that can be of a physical (Earth), mental (Air), emotional(water) or of the psyche (Fire) nature.
If you're looking for illnesses of a mental nature, there are other factors to consider, and not just the 6th house. Harsh aspects concerning Mercury, 3rd house, Moon and/or Ascendant in an Air sign, Air planets themselves, for example, can all add their influence. Saturn can add depression, Neptune disassociation, Pluto repression. Yet even all of them together in one chart does not necessarily mean that the individual has other than a 'normal' mentality. Everyone's thoughts may get the better of them now and then, without them being what is commonly called 'mental'.
 
craft94

craft94

Well-known member
AppLeo said:
What do you mean by culturally constructed? That people are forced or naturally become mentally ill because of society?
Click to expand...

That statement isn't necessarily untrue but that isn't what I was saying, nor was I saying that mental illness doesn't exist. I just mean that our understanding and conceptualization of mental illness varies from culture to culture. Pretty much what GeminiGrrl just said. What appears 'normal' in one culture might be considered 'insane' in another culture and vice versa. Not all cultures seperate mental health from physical health the way we do and diagnoses themselves are cultural constructions. There are even culture-specific disorders such as the Malaysian Latah. I'd go deep into it if I had the time but I don't. I can't be spending all day on an astrology forum, sorry.

But American culture places a high emphasis on productivity so it makes sense that an inability to be productive would be what you'd define as insanity.


AppLeo said:
Sure. But being strictly logical doesn't make you a sociopath. Sociopaths are very emotional, but not emotional in the empathic sense. They have uncontrollable rages, intense power/sex urges, addictions...those are all things regulated by your feelings. A robot is not a sociopath, basically.
Click to expand...

Point taken, but would you consider a robot to be mentally healthy?

Also, if we're using Ayn Rand as an example... I don't necessarily agree that she's a sociopath, people just say that because they don't agree with her politics... but she could be. You don't know her. Sociopaths are definitely emotional people but they tend to be appear logical and charming to the surrounding public. And regardless of whether or not you agree with her philosophy, it isn't a very empathetic one, let's be honest.



AppLeo said:
Aspergers syndrome isn't logical. There's nothing logical about avoiding eye contact and having no social skills. People with aspergers syndrome feel like not having social skills and avoiding eye contact, but not because they have a goal or logical reasoning behind it. If you try to look them in the eye, they get all weird or they feel fear or whatever.
.
Click to expand...

People with Aspergers "feel" like not having social skills? You say that like they just wake up in the morning and say, "I don't feel like having social skills today"??? I don't think that's the case...that doesn't even make sense... it's a disability... many want to have the correct social skills but legitimately don't know how..but I definitely agree with you that people with Asperger's have feelings. The idea that they don't is a myth.

But more on topic, my overall point was that being 'logical' isn't necessarily any guarantee of mental health. People can be or appear rational and logical while lacking the social/emotional skills needed to live a healthy and fulfilling life. I agree the disorders I perhaps wrongly used as examples don't turn people into robots but is being a robot really your ideal way of living? Too much emotion and too little logic might make one crazy but I'd argue that too much logic and too little emotion can be just as bad. It's all about balance.

Also everyone thinks theyr'e more logical than they actually are hahahaha
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
To investigate the 6th house fully, turn the chart so as to make the 6th house the "new ascendant": then each subsequent house will show the relationship of the life-areas of that house, to the health of the individual (including the mental health), ie the effects and ramifications of the life-areas of that house upon the health of the person.

...but I do not believe that the 6th house ALONE can show all of the factors involved in a complex matter like mental illness...
 
L

Lin

Well-known member
First, It's the 3rd house which rules "daily routine."

the 6th house is about being "in tune" with oneself or in "balance" with oneself.

The secret of the 6th house is WORK. People who have jobs that they like and are fulfilling are less likely to have health issues of all types.

Maladjustment can be seen in connections with the 6th house...but ALSO with "inconjunct" aspects. And if the inconjunct is connected to the 6th then yes, some sort of mental imbalance can be part of the manifestation. But often that can be "genetic"....often people with ACTUAL mental health issues have had family members with them.

I just want to note here that there is no way to actually be certain about what is happening with the Original Poster as there is NO CHART shown.
So....for more information, please post a natal chart with current transits,
Thanks,
LIN
 
K

katydid

Well-known member
I have always been very interested in the 6th house. When I first became a student of Astrology, it was disconcerting to read about my 6th house stellium, and see the keywords associated with it. service oriented, behind the scenes, competent, mediocre...lol :wink:

I did take note when I saw a celebrity with Sun in the 6th: Kurt Cobain, Michael Jackson, John Lennon, Whitney Huston, Bob Dylan, Justin Timberlake, Kelly Osbourne,...

and noticed a pattern with some of the 6th house celebrities. There was often a strong internal struggle with self confidence, in spite of being 'star quality, successful' beings.


One thing, in general, with 6th house stellium people is that there is often a strong opposition or quincunx from the Ascendant to the 6th house planet. This brings with it an internal struggle. A difficult life situation or an inner tension which erupts in the physical body or the immediate environment.

I have Saturn/Neptune in Libra inconjunct Asc. in Taurus. It wreaks havoc with my 6th house duties and routines...:whistling:

Many people with 6th house stelliums have similar inconjunctions with their Ascendant. That can create a lot of difficulties---physical, emotional and/or psychological issues.

The 6th house is the status quo. One's equilibrium--the state of things in the physical environment...WORK/TEAMWORK/COOPERATION.

How does one cooperate with the team when there is a disruptive, agitative inconjunction confusing the situation?

I have Saturn/Neptune in Libra conjunct the Sun in Scorpio, alongside Mercury in Scorpio, all in the natal 6th. Routine, daily activities have always been the bane of my existence. :sideways:
 
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