moonkat235
Well-known member
You too! Talk to ya later!
Bible and Astrology
- Thread starter PlutoLibScoAsc
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You too! Talk to ya later!
moonkat235
Well-known member
Meh, who cares about the date the KJV of the Bible was written. Regardless, there seems to be interesting astrological references and symbolism. No need for people to be fighting for intellectual superiority when we could all be having an interesting dialogue on the topic... Why the need to escalate irritation?
moonkat235
Well-known member
It said waybread posted last, but I don't see it. 
Guess it was lost when the site went down.
Opal, if you have a moment though I'm still curious on this:
Guess it was lost when the site went down.Opal, if you have a moment though I'm still curious on this:
Opal
Premium Member
I wish and regret that I am not a linguist. I do read of all world mythologies. I am not an expert in the field of study, but I do have books on many of them. I do have a void in specific Hebrew myth. Now that I have noticed that, thank you, I will have to rectify it!
I like the quote you chose.
Genesis 1:14
“And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:”
I had not noticed the word “signs” before, interesting.
I am going back to bed. I have a busy day tomorrow, I want to read the first Chapter again before I finish answering.
Regarding Solomon, it comes from more than one book that I have read on Solomon. I will look at my books when I get the chance and let you know which ones you would find most interesting.
Astrology begins with reality as it is. It does not propose a "God". It takes what is, the entire cosmos, or our universe [which means "one-turning"], and then tries to see what it can learn through use of analogy.
We should understand that all religions (those which are institutionalized at the least) are designed and built as implements for social control.
What Moses did was b....LAter
We should understand that all religions (those which are institutionalized at the least) are designed and built as implements for social control.
What Moses did was b....LAter
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moonkat235
Well-known member
The 'universe' means 'one-turning'? That's curious.
I was thinking on the nature of time and if it is possibly a wheel/circle. Like a circle looks like a line when you only see a segment of it, etc. (not my own idea) I was thinking of this in application to the astrological Ages, but I don't have concrete thoughts.
Even though astrology does not propose a 'god', I keep thinking of a definition that is suitable for what people say when they refer to an all-knowing, all-present entity that compasses everything.
CT linked an article a while back on random thoughts discussing Carl Jung's concept of self. It's the totality of the individual's psyche, so then I was thinking of the Bible saying we're 'made in God's image' and whether it would be more apt to say God's psyche is the totality of the universe.
Anyway, just a thought.
I was thinking on the nature of time and if it is possibly a wheel/circle. Like a circle looks like a line when you only see a segment of it, etc. (not my own idea) I was thinking of this in application to the astrological Ages, but I don't have concrete thoughts.
Even though astrology does not propose a 'god', I keep thinking of a definition that is suitable for what people say when they refer to an all-knowing, all-present entity that compasses everything.
CT linked an article a while back on random thoughts discussing Carl Jung's concept of self. It's the totality of the individual's psyche, so then I was thinking of the Bible saying we're 'made in God's image' and whether it would be more apt to say God's psyche is the totality of the universe.
Anyway, just a thought.
So this guy Moses was a nation-builder. But to glue his structure together he needed an authority higher than man. So that dietary strictures prohibiting the eating of a frog became mandates from On High. Judaism became the national religion, the great social lubricant and adhesive.
Organized, or institutionalized, religion is a tool for social control.
Astrology doesn't care if you believe or not. It allows you to eat frogs.
So I will choose the path of astrology, and studying and pondering the universe - that which turns as One - will try to sort out this thing we call God.
Organized, or institutionalized, religion is a tool for social control.
Astrology doesn't care if you believe or not. It allows you to eat frogs.
So I will choose the path of astrology, and studying and pondering the universe - that which turns as One - will try to sort out this thing we call God.
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waybread
Well-known member
Greybeard, Jewish scholars have put a lot of thought and study into the topic of kosher dietary laws. It's not a simplistic topic. There are several different main lines of thought on it, proposed by rabbis and scholars of ancient languages.
I actually kept a kosher kitchen for about 18 years, as my ex husband is Jewish. (I converted prior to our marriage and have been religiously inactive since our separation and divorce.) What I found was that keeping kosher was a kind of mnemonic device that constantly oriented me towards my chosen faith, its sense of the sanctity of daily life, and its people.
But if you've never had a religious experience and dismissively think that all religion can be reduced to a tool of social control, you will never understand religion.
Although Judaism today is not much into astrology, there were numerous Jewish astrologers or scholars who wrote about astrology in the past. The Jewish-Roman author Josephus argued that Abraham, an Aramean, invented astrology.
Opal and Moonkat, you might be interested to learn about biblical criticism. This doesn't mean condemning the Bible, but rather "getting under the hood" to ferret out the different authors, when they lived, their social influences, and so on. This is typically based on expert knowledge of ancient languages and philology, but there are laypersons' discussions in English.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_criticism
Where ancient scribes contradicted one another, the compilers let both of them stand in many cases. They didn't want to exclude anything that might be scriptural.
I don't take the Bible literally, although a few facts have been verified archaeologically and through other textual sources. The Bible is full of metaphor and is also a work of literature.
I actually kept a kosher kitchen for about 18 years, as my ex husband is Jewish. (I converted prior to our marriage and have been religiously inactive since our separation and divorce.) What I found was that keeping kosher was a kind of mnemonic device that constantly oriented me towards my chosen faith, its sense of the sanctity of daily life, and its people.
But if you've never had a religious experience and dismissively think that all religion can be reduced to a tool of social control, you will never understand religion.
Although Judaism today is not much into astrology, there were numerous Jewish astrologers or scholars who wrote about astrology in the past. The Jewish-Roman author Josephus argued that Abraham, an Aramean, invented astrology.
Opal and Moonkat, you might be interested to learn about biblical criticism. This doesn't mean condemning the Bible, but rather "getting under the hood" to ferret out the different authors, when they lived, their social influences, and so on. This is typically based on expert knowledge of ancient languages and philology, but there are laypersons' discussions in English.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_criticism
Where ancient scribes contradicted one another, the compilers let both of them stand in many cases. They didn't want to exclude anything that might be scriptural.
I don't take the Bible literally, although a few facts have been verified archaeologically and through other textual sources. The Bible is full of metaphor and is also a work of literature.
Opal
Premium Member
Opal and Moonkat, you might be interested to learn about biblical criticism. This doesn't mean condemning the Bible, but rather "getting under the hood" to ferret out the different authors, when they lived, their social influences, and so on. This is typically based on expert knowledge of ancient languages and philology, but there are laypersons' discussions in English.
Hi Waybread,
Nowhere have I condemned The Bible. Nor do I condemn people that adhere to any religion. I had a mixed religious upbringing myself.
Paternal Grandmother - Protestant
Paternal Grandfather - Cree and followed their natural heritage
Maternal Grandmother - Catholic
Maternal Grandfather - Muslim
I use the Bible as a study tool. Much the same as my Grandmother’s. I have a Koran. I don’t have a concordance for it. My Cree Granfather used no book, he just taught the ways of the land. He also served in WWII.
I just have learned to study it in my own way. I do not care if people want to discuss their choice of religion. If that is the subject. The title of this thread is “Bible and Astrology”. I study The Bible, with my concordances, in which can found all of the numbers of Precession. I started looking at The Book as a Tool of Precession many years ago, because that is what I see.
I suppose that would be why I see it as what I see it as. I am looking at it with my eyes, not the eyes of someone who is telling me what it should mean to me.
The concordance is an amazing tool. It allows me to observe key words, and lets me decide what I believe. I have been to the churches and mosques and long houses. I do not find what I need for my chosen path of faith there. I find my faith from, deciphering The Bible and ancient mythologies.
Each to their own.
Hi Waybread,
Nowhere have I condemned The Bible. Nor do I condemn people that adhere to any religion. I had a mixed religious upbringing myself.
Paternal Grandmother - Protestant
Paternal Grandfather - Cree and followed their natural heritage
Maternal Grandmother - Catholic
Maternal Grandfather - Muslim
I use the Bible as a study tool. Much the same as my Grandmother’s. I have a Koran. I don’t have a concordance for it. My Cree Granfather used no book, he just taught the ways of the land. He also served in WWII.
I just have learned to study it in my own way. I do not care if people want to discuss their choice of religion. If that is the subject. The title of this thread is “Bible and Astrology”. I study The Bible, with my concordances, in which can found all of the numbers of Precession. I started looking at The Book as a Tool of Precession many years ago, because that is what I see.
I suppose that would be why I see it as what I see it as. I am looking at it with my eyes, not the eyes of someone who is telling me what it should mean to me.
The concordance is an amazing tool. It allows me to observe key words, and lets me decide what I believe. I have been to the churches and mosques and long houses. I do not find what I need for my chosen path of faith there. I find my faith from, deciphering The Bible and ancient mythologies.
Each to their own.
Opal
Premium Member
Alas, I am sorry for misunderstanding you Waybread, I should have known better. You are always fair to my mind. I had a bad day yesterday, ended up in the hospital, I am and will be fine, probably why I misunderstood you. And I am pretty drugged. 😄😄😄
Have a good night Waybread!
Hey, before I go, I was in Nakusp this summer, they had a book sale on. I bought a book called The Bible as History by Werner Keller, when I opened it up at the sale the first thing I saw was “there was a conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter” he was referencing Kepler’s studies.
You are probably the only person here that knows of Nakusp! Pretty small town to find a Biblical astrology book!
Talk to you later Waybread, goodnight!
Greybeard did not and does not condemn holy writings or the religions they spring from.
I do not "reduce" religion to a medium for social control. It is many things, performs many functions. I merely point out that one of its most important and primary functions is as a means of social control.
It runs throughout history.
The OP has run face-on into religion as a means of social control: "Thou shalt not study astrology."
I do not "reduce" religion to a medium for social control. It is many things, performs many functions. I merely point out that one of its most important and primary functions is as a means of social control.
It runs throughout history.
The OP has run face-on into religion as a means of social control: "Thou shalt not study astrology."
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I am not here to argue the veracity of the bible. I take the book as it is accepted by its adherents, and try to help the OP orient himself within his accepted belief system.
Whether or not I personally accept the bible is immaterial.
Whether Jesus was crucified on Tuesday or Friday, or not at all, is meaningless in this context. I must ignore such argument.
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Opal
Premium Member
I know you didn’t Greybeard, you are pretty straight up about what you say.
I find we all make errors in miscommunications here too easily. I put it down to no eye contact.
But you nailed it with what the OP is facing. Church rules, versus personal choices, they don’t always mix.
waybread
Well-known member
We are pointing out that the Bible's adherents do not all "accept" it in the same way. Compare the teaching of the Southern Baptists, with the Unitarians, just for one example. Jews do not accept the New Testament, and the Catholic church includes some books that other Christian faiths do not.
Have you studied the Bible extensively?
Reductio ad absurdum, what with not eating frogs and the day of the crucifixion?
Opal
Premium Member
So, I am looking in this book. Sefer Yetzirah. The Book of Creation. By Aryeh Kaplan.
My husband bought it. I opened it to a page. 236 to be exact. And it is talking about the nodes. Genesis 1: 21
Note that Kaplan is Jewish. Would be using the Torah. I will type you an excerpt, from the book.
"The "dragon" whose head and tail form the two nodes, is then identified as the Teli. Most early Hebrew writers refer to it by its Arabic name Al Jaz'har. Juz'har is a Persian word, meaning "knot" or "node."
Rabbi Abraham Abulafia also identifies the Teli with the celestial "knots" (Kesharim). He writes that the head of the Teli denoes merit, while its tail signifies liability.
Especially important are the lunar nodes, since it is only at these points that an eclipse, either of the sun or the moon, can occur. The Teli can then be seen as the imaginary dragon swallowing the sun or moon.
Although the obliquity is often referred to as the Teli, it is questionable if this is the Teli mentioned her by the Sefer Yetzirah.
Ther is also a tradition that there are two Telis or dragons, one male and the other female. These are identified as the two Leviathans, and are mentioned in the account of creation, "God created the great dragons" (Genesis 1:21) According to the Talmud, the Pole Serpent mentioned by Isaiah is the male dragon, while the Coiled Serpent (Nachash Akalkalon) is the female. Some Kabbalists state that the constellation of Draco is the male Pole Serpent, while the inclination of the ecliptic is the female Coiled Serpent. The female therefore encompasses the male, this being the mystery of, "a female shall surround a male" (Jeremish 31:22)"
It continues with a debate of others identifying the Teli with the Milky Way. Saying the Teli would be the axis of the glaxy. but, the Book of Raziel calls the Milky Way the River Dinur, mentioned in Daniel.
Guess I am going to have to go back to page 1.
My husband picks good books.
My husband bought it. I opened it to a page. 236 to be exact. And it is talking about the nodes. Genesis 1: 21
Note that Kaplan is Jewish. Would be using the Torah. I will type you an excerpt, from the book.
"The "dragon" whose head and tail form the two nodes, is then identified as the Teli. Most early Hebrew writers refer to it by its Arabic name Al Jaz'har. Juz'har is a Persian word, meaning "knot" or "node."
Rabbi Abraham Abulafia also identifies the Teli with the celestial "knots" (Kesharim). He writes that the head of the Teli denoes merit, while its tail signifies liability.
Especially important are the lunar nodes, since it is only at these points that an eclipse, either of the sun or the moon, can occur. The Teli can then be seen as the imaginary dragon swallowing the sun or moon.
Although the obliquity is often referred to as the Teli, it is questionable if this is the Teli mentioned her by the Sefer Yetzirah.
Ther is also a tradition that there are two Telis or dragons, one male and the other female. These are identified as the two Leviathans, and are mentioned in the account of creation, "God created the great dragons" (Genesis 1:21) According to the Talmud, the Pole Serpent mentioned by Isaiah is the male dragon, while the Coiled Serpent (Nachash Akalkalon) is the female. Some Kabbalists state that the constellation of Draco is the male Pole Serpent, while the inclination of the ecliptic is the female Coiled Serpent. The female therefore encompasses the male, this being the mystery of, "a female shall surround a male" (Jeremish 31:22)"
It continues with a debate of others identifying the Teli with the Milky Way. Saying the Teli would be the axis of the glaxy. but, the Book of Raziel calls the Milky Way the River Dinur, mentioned in Daniel.
Guess I am going to have to go back to page 1.
My husband picks good books.