How to rule Pisces during the day?

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pschutz

Active member
Hello,

this is probably a fairly easy question for any of you but I as a hobby astrologer moving from modern towards traditional am confused here:

Let's say I have the cusp of the third house in Pisces. The Sun is above horizont and so is Jupiter. So, here the day-type Jupiter rules this third house, but it's still in Pisces, what consequences has this for the interpretation?

I am obviously confused, please help or refer to example :)

Thank you.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
If I understand your question correctly, it's fine to have the sign of Pisces below the horizon with (lucky you) the sun and Jupiter above the horizon. Jupiter is part of the day sect, so it's enhanced by being above the horizon during the day.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/sect.html

The way the day and night rulers work out for planets that rule two signs, is that the night ruler is for the feminine earth and water signs, and the day ruler is for the masculine fire and air signs. For example, Jupiter is the night ruler of watery Pisces, and the day ruler of fiery Sagittarius. (The sun and moon are both the day and night rulers of their respective signs.

Of course, how Jupiter in your example functions also depends upon its other essential and accidental dignities in the chart.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
pschutz said:
Hello,

 this is probably a fairly easy question for any of you
but I as a hobby astrologer moving from modern
towards traditional
am confused here:
Let's say I have the cusp of the third house in Pisces.
The Sun is above horizont and so is Jupiter.
So, here the day-type Jupiter rules this third house
but it's still in Pisces
what consequences has this for the interpretation?
I am obviously confused, please help or refer to example :)
 Thank you.
Click to expand...
The following Quote is from THE ASTROLOGY OF SECT by Chris Brennan :smile:
'...An important concept in the Hellenistic astrological tradition
that did not survive into modern times
is the distinction between day and night charts
which is associated with a technical concept known as “sect.”
In this article I will provide an introduction to concept of sect
and demonstrate how it is used in astrology....'
http://horoscopicastrologyblog.com/2008/11/25/the-astrology-of-sect/
 
P

pschutz

Active member
Thanks for the info and articles (that's a cool page, didn't know about it). For most part I understand how sect works. I just miss the link to sign and house rulership:

Has a diurnal Jupiter any repercussions for the meaning of Pisces in the second house ? Will the Pisces energy be stronger when Jupiter is in a night chart and weaker in a day chart? Or is sect unimportant in rulership?
 
Oddity

Oddity

Well-known member
It's more important that Jupiter is in a sign that sees Pisces. So if it's in Scorpio, great, it can manage the affairs of the house well. If it's in Leo, not so good, because it doesn't see Pisces. If Venus sees Pisces, or is in Pisces, it can add some to the rulership, because that's the exaltation ruler.

This is 'all things being equal' and they usually aren't, but you want a planet ruling a sign to see the sign, things tend to spiral a bit if it doesn't.

Jupiter is in-sect in your example. What that would mean is that there would probably be benefits accruing to you from it, since Jupiter is team you (in-sect) instead of team other people (out-of-sect). Out-of-sect, the Jupiterian benefits would more likely be to other people, though Jupiter's a natural benefic, so you'd get some good out of it, too.

It's not a huge thing, though, the ruling planet seeing the sign is more important.
 
P

pschutz

Active member
Awesome, this is very useful.

One additional questions - as you opened it -> "sees the sign". Now I heard about that a lot, do I understand correctly that it has to do with the distance of the signs?
Leo is 150° to Pisces - no major aspect -> no visibility.
Scorpio is 120° - trine -> great visibility
In that case Carpicorn is 60° - sextile -> good visibility
and how about Gemini? 90 degrees from Pisces - square -> bad ??? Such Jupiter would have trouble managing a second house in pisces?
 
P

pschutz

Active member
Does anybody know, is there somewhere a complete guide to the rules of traditional astrology when judging a planet/house somewhere on the internet? Don't want to spam this forum with questions that I can read up, but I pick up pieces on the internet and try to understand how they work together by myself. If there would be a step by step guide it could save you guys a lot of time :)
 
Oddity

Oddity

Well-known member
In your particular example, it would likely be bad. You'd have a detrimented Jupiter in the 6th house (misfortune, illness), out-of-sect and square (if it's still a day chart).

It'd still be better than Jupiter not seeing the sign, because at least you'll be aware of what's going on instead of being completely blindsided by the problems. Jupiter being benefic, the problems might not be too bad, but you'd want to look at the whole chart.

Seeing v not seeing, 3rd house, nasty example: your younger brother has a chronic illness, but you know about it, and it can be mitigated to some extent, compared to an unknown/untreated illness with disastrous result.

Not so scary example: Your job is challenging because you're teaching developmentally disabled kids (Jup detriment), and while you enjoy it, maybe the administration you work for makes stupid or frustrating policies from time to time (square 3), but at least you know what's going on v suddenly funding is pulled and you're out of a job (Jup detrimented, doesn't see 3).

Again, you need to look at the whole chart - and talk to the person the chart belongs to!
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
pschutz said:
Does anybody know, is there somewhere a complete guide to the rules of traditional astrology when judging a planet/house somewhere on the internet? Don't want to spam this forum with questions that I can read up, but I pick up pieces on the internet and try to understand how they work together by myself. If there would be a step by step guide it could save you guys a lot of time :)
Click to expand...
There are many online blogs - here's a link to one :smile:
includes examples of traditional delineation https://beyondtheheaven.wordpress.com/
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
pschutz, Oddity is a traditional astrologer of some experience, so I'd go with his interpretation.

I might add some other ways that planets can be reinforced: antiscia http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/antiscia.html and with an exchange of essential dignities, notably mutual reception. .

The best website I know for traditional astrology is Skyscript, at www.skyscript.co.uk It has a big archive of articles and an a glossary of terms that are often more encyclopedic. It also has a forum. This hasn't been so active of late, but it would still be a place to get your questions answered.

One "hybrid" modern/traditional astrologer, Demetra George, had a nice way of putting planet rulerships of signs in her book Astrology and the Authentic Self. Basically a planet "wants" to help the affairs of the house it rules. Whether it can do so effectively or not depends upon its own situation in a chart.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

There's an excellent TRADITIONAL AND ANCIENT TECHNIQUES forum :smile:
at http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=0d3bea74ec8809fd9d41d15445f0ad58
 
Oddity

Oddity

Well-known member
Honestly, I think you're going to need books for this. You can find some things on the Internet, skyscript is a reliable source for articles, but there are a lot of dodgy sites out there, too.

pschutz said:
Does anybody know, is there somewhere a complete guide to the rules of traditional astrology when judging a planet/house somewhere on the internet? Don't want to spam this forum with questions that I can read up, but I pick up pieces on the internet and try to understand how they work together by myself. If there would be a step by step guide it could save you guys a lot of time :)
Click to expand...
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Oddity said:
Honestly, I think you're going to need books for this.

You can find some things on the Internet
skyscript is a reliable source for articles
but there are a lot of dodgy sites out there, too.
Click to expand...
Introductions to Traditional Astrology (ITA)
is a joint translation of two classic introductory works:
Abu Ma’shar’s Abbreviation of the Introduction to Astrology
and
al-Qabisi’s Introduction to Astrology.
It also includes numerous passages from Abu Ma’shar’s Great Introduction
(never before published in English)
and other medieval astrologers on interpretating traditional concepts. (425 pages)
https://www.bendykes.com/product/introductions-to-traditional-astrology-abu-mashar-al-qabisi/
Click here for a PDF excerpt. :smile:
 
P

pschutz

Active member
I was a day offline and things evolved here exactly as I hoped. Thank you all for the tips, links and book references. I became intrigued with the traditional astrology way of judging planets but it is really an art where you need to know people on the inside to navigate towards the good knowledge. Makes me happy to see that I found some! :)
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

The Cycle of the Year: Traditional Predictive Astrology :smile:
Foreword by Dr. Benjamin N. Dykes, Ph. D.
https://studentofastrology.com/cycle-of-the-year/

The following is from the Foreword by Ben Dykes.
In The Cycle of the Year, my friend and colleague Charlie Obert
is doing a great service to students of astrology and the traditional revival in particular.
The traditional approach to prediction not only included a number of techniques not widely known today
but combined them in special ways to include both symbolic and real-time motions.

The “cycle” or “revolution” of the year refers not just to solar revolutions (solar returns)
but all of these techniques taken together and revisited on an annual basis.

Charlie begins by providing a solid but easy overview of key interpretive concepts
especially the idea of “time lords,” and explaining that these techniques combine both symbolic time and motion
with real-time motion (such as transits)
we could even say that solar revolutions bridge the gap between them
because a solar revolution is a set of transits at a symbolically important time (a year).

Further chapters use numerous natal charts to explain and illustrate
transits, profections, primary directions, the fuller technique for directions called “distributions,”
solar revolutions, and then directions of the solar revolution Ascendant.
Charlie’s book is also valuable
because a number of nativities are addressed more than once, with multiple techniques.
And happily for the student, he explains
how to program and use the free Morinus astrology program.
Finally, he includes advice on what to prepare for client consultations
when you use these techniques.
I know that you will appreciate Charlie’s straightforward approach
to training people in these powerful techniques
and your astrology will improve as a result!
Benjamin Dykes
 
Senecar

Senecar

Well-known member
Senecar said:
My recent book purchase on Traditional Astrology was,

A Compilation On The Science of The Stars by Leopold of Austria. Translated by B. Dykes.

Unlike its mouthful title of the book, it is a surprisingly introductory book on Traditional Astrology very similar to Bonatti's books.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Compilation-Science-Stars-Leopold-Austria/dp/1934586439
Click to expand...

This book also covers Mundane, Horary / Election Astrology as well as Nativity.

I feel it is a lot more smooth reading than other traditional Astrology textbooks. A hidden gem.
 
M

muchacho

Well-known member
I agree with Oddity. You have to read books, especially the really old ones. There's no way around it. And you better read them in the original versions, not commentaries or compilations or summaries. From my perspective, must-have/must-reads are Ptolemy, Dorotheus and Valens and Rhetorius maybe. That's what you should read first. The later authors will all reference them and use them as their basis and are more or less just compilations of these earlier authors. Really good compilations you'll find in Mashallah's and Ibn Ezras books. Al Biruni's book is also a very good compilation, it's very short, to the point and also compares the traditional western perspective with the vedic perspective. When you're done with these, you can move on to vedic astrology if you're up for it.
 
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