Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

The19thLaw

Well-known member
For revenge potential, I'd go with Scorpio Asc. Ruthlessness and ambition could be a Venus/Saturn/Mars combination. But, taken by itself, I have Mars in :cancer: by itself as "Emotionally Self-directed"--going your own way, on your own terms, but avoiding confrontation whenever possible.

I'd disagree with anything Scorpio, the sign is all bark and no bite, it lacks the strategic mindset needed to win a war.
 

david starling

Well-known member
A lot of this ties into the works of Robert Greene, especially 33 Strategies Of War. The Ancient Athenians looked to Athena as a true god compared to Ares, we can think of the two as Venus vs Mars respectively. Ares was masculinity, raw and pure, but also instinctual and ruled through fear and intimidation. Ares is Mars, fight for the battle.

Athena can be seen as Venus, thinking of the long-term picture in mind, thinking 10 moves ahead and fighting the war instead of the battle. In other words, the Scorpio or Aries might win the battle but the Taurus and Libra will always win the war. Now I will note that Mars is not even at its strongest peak in either Aries or Scorpio, it is in its height power in Capricorn which is a Saturn ruled sign.

It is amazing once you go through a war in life or compete in a sport how much long-term thinking helps compared to the short-term mindset. It is no mystery to me that the very sign exalted in Saturn and ruled by Venus is so powerful yet it understands the true rule of power, to hide it instead of showcasing it.

Similarly, I think signs like Gemini, Leo, and Virgo are good at this power-game. Compare that to an Aries or Scorpio who will always fall on their own sword.

Athena is Virgo. Her major attribute was her virginity. The Parthenon, built in her honor, literally means "Virgin". She was also the goddess of victory in war, and the goddess of wisdom. Mars in Virgo is a very effective placement for strategic warfare.
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
A lot of this ties into the works of Robert Greene, especially 33 Strategies Of War. The Ancient Athenians looked to Athena as a true god compared to Ares, we can think of the two as Venus vs Mars respectively. Ares was masculinity, raw and pure, but also instinctual and ruled through fear and intimidation. Ares is Mars, fight for the battle.

Athena can be seen as Venus, thinking of the long-term picture in mind, thinking 10 moves ahead and fighting the war instead of the battle. In other words, the Scorpio or Aries might win the battle but the Taurus and Libra will always win the war. Now I will note that Mars is not even at its strongest peak in either Aries or Scorpio, it is in its height power in Capricorn which is a Saturn ruled sign.

It is amazing once you go through a war in life or compete in a sport how much long-term thinking helps compared to the short-term mindset. It is no mystery to me that the very sign exalted in Saturn and ruled by Venus is so powerful yet it understands the true rule of power, to hide it instead of showcasing it.

Similarly, I think signs like Gemini, Leo, and Virgo are good at this power-game. Compare that to an Aries or Scorpio who will always fall on their own sword.

Be careful of bolstering your case with what the Athenians thought.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peloponnesian_War

In the first phase, the Archidamian War, Sparta launched repeated invasions of Attica, while Athens took advantage of its naval supremacy to raid the coast of the Peloponnese and attempt to suppress signs of unrest in its empire. This period of the war was concluded in 421 BC, with the signing of the Peace of Nicias. That treaty, however, was soon undermined by renewed fighting in the Peloponnese. In 415 BC, Athens dispatched a massive expeditionary force to attack Syracuse, Sicily; the attack failed disastrously, with the destruction of the entire force in 413 BC. This ushered in the final phase of the war, generally referred to either as the Decelean War, or the Ionian War. In this phase, Sparta, now receiving support from the Achaemenid Empire, supported rebellions in Athens's subject states in the Aegean Sea and Ionia, undermining Athens's empire, and, eventually, depriving the city of naval supremacy. The destruction of Athens's fleet in the Battle of Aegospotami effectively ended the war, and Athens surrendered in the following year. Corinth and Thebes demanded that Athens should be destroyed and all its citizens should be enslaved, but Sparta refused.

The Spartans were the winners of this war, and they were a traditionally Martial society with Saturnine overtones.

A Spartan baby had to be hardy and healthy. To test a baby's strength, parents would leave their child on a mountain overnight to see if it could survive on its own until the next morning. By age seven, Spartan boys were taken from their families and underwent severe military training. They wore uniforms at all times, ate small meals of bland foods, exercised barefoot to toughen their feet, and were punished severely for disobedient behavior. Boys lived away from their families in barracks until the age of 30, even after they were married. Men were expected to be ready to serve in the army until they were 60 years old.

The Spartans were the followers of Ares, which comes as no surprise to anyone who knows about their civilization.

Venusian force is certainly painted in a one-dimensional light, but I think Mars gets the same treatment since it is often seen as mostly blind and bone-headed.

However, I think it's where both of them share a sign with Saturn where we can see the power of these energies when applied with the discipline of Saturnine energy.

You might enjoy Julius Evola's "Metaphysics of War"
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Be careful of bolstering your case with what the Athenians thought.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peloponnesian_War



The Spartans were the winners of this war, and they were a traditionally Martial society with Saturnine overtones.



The Spartans were the followers of Ares, which comes as no surprise to anyone who knows about their civilization.

Venusian force is certainly painted in a one-dimensional light, but I think Mars gets the same treatment since it is often seen as mostly blind and bone-headed.

However, I think it's where both of them share a sign with Capricorn where we can see the power of these energies when applied with the discipline of Saturnine energy.

You might enjoy Julius Evola's "Metaphysics of War"

The Athenians weren't true to their own city-state goddess. Whenever they violated her defensive, not offensive, precepts, they met with disaster.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
I am a Libra, and I know many Libra’s most of whom I am on excellent terms with.....my husband is a loving Libran.......but yes I do have an enemy, that is a Libra too.......

Do you have your DC in Libra, by any chance?

Spouses and enemies are both indicated by the seventh house. It's pretty common for anyone who is either of those things to you - and for people in your life in general - to have significant placements in the sign of your DC, or that reflect your DC in some way. It may or may not be their sun sign, but if it's not, there's something else significant, like their moon or ascendant or something that gives them similar traits.

I have my DC in Cancer, and more of the people I've dated, or even had crushes on, have been Cancers than any other sun sign. Curiously enough, my longest lasting romantic relationship was with someone who has nothing at all in Cancer, but has lots of placements in my fifth and eighth houses, and has Taurus rising with a first house Taurus moon.
 

Opal

Premium Member
Do you have your DC in Libra, by any chance?

Spouses and enemies are both indicated by the seventh house. It's pretty common for anyone who is either of those things to you - and for people in your life in general - to have significant placements in the sign of your DC, or that reflect your DC in some way. It may or may not be their sun sign, but if it's not, there's something else significant, like their moon or ascendant or something that gives them similar traits.

I have my DC in Cancer, and more of the people I've dated, or even had crushes on, have been Cancers than any other sun sign. Curiously enough, my longest lasting romantic relationship was with someone who has nothing at all in Cancer, but has lots of placements in my fifth and eighth houses, and has Taurus rising with a first house Taurus moon.

My DC is in Taurus. My husbands DC is in Scorpio. We have been together for 35 years. Most of the people I dated before that were Leo or Libra Sun. I don't know their charts.

I know the birthday, and place of birth of my enemy, but not the time. I have consciously avoided her chart......

I thought enemies were 12th house......or is that only secret or hidden enemies?
 

ElenaJ

Well-known member
"I thought enemies were 12th house......or is that only secret or hidden enemies?"
The 12th is secret enemies, what happens behind your back, the 7th is open enemies, and also includes partners, spouses and lawyers.
 

Opal

Premium Member
"I thought enemies were 12th house......or is that only secret or hidden enemies?"
The 12th is secret enemies, what happens behind your back, the 7th is open enemies, and also includes partners, spouses and lawyers.

Thank you!
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
My DC is in Taurus. My husbands DC is in Scorpio. We have been together for 35 years. Most of the people I dated before that were Leo or Libra Sun. I don't know their charts.

I know the birthday, and place of birth of my enemy, but not the time. I have consciously avoided her chart......

I thought enemies were 12th house......or is that only secret or hidden enemies?
All enemies that are known as such belong to 7th house :smile:

12th house warns of secret enemies

but
as soon as their existence is known
they are represented through the 7th house.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h7.html
 

ElenaJ

Well-known member
Don't you find it intriguing that spouses and lawyers are also grouped in the same house with open enemies?
Is there a connection here?
 

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
Mostly agree with peoples here, except lawyers. Lawyers are Jupiterian actually. Represent at 9th house and 6th house [according to Western Hellenistic Thema Mundi]
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Don't you find it intriguing that spouses and lawyers

are also grouped in the same house with open enemies?
Is there a connection here?


Equally intriguing is the fact that 7th is the house of business partnerships :smile:
Mostly agree with peoples here, except lawyers.
Lawyers are Jupiterian actually.
Agreed

nevertheless
Lawyers play an adversarial role for their business clients
i.e.

Lawyers act for clients who are in a state of enmity with each other
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Lawyers are 7th house, along with thieves and fugitives.
Judges are 10th house, the jury 11th.

In horary charts 7th house represents the astrologer :smile:
along with thieves and fugitives


and if heavily afflicted
the astrologer should pause before proceeding

as the judgement may be impaired or bring them damage.
This is especially so if the 7th-ruler is afflicted in the 10th house
which suggests harm to the professional reputation.

If the horary concerns a 7th house matter, however
the affliction may be describing the situation under consideration
in which case the warning is to proceed with diligence.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*


Scholars and practitioners of law
are attributed to the 9th house :smile:
confusion often exists
as to whether lawyers
and those who enforce the law should be associated with this house
or the 10th.


In the sense that
9th house represents guidance
and advice
from those more knowledgeable
than ourselves
THEN
lawyers, counsellors and advisors
generally fall under the principles
of the 9th house
when they act in an advisory capacity.

IN CONTRAST
Law, as a means of enforcing a ruling over others
however, belongs to the 10th house
which is the house of authority and rulership.


Hence
lawyers
and solicitors
are attributed to the 9th

whereas judges and magistrates are attributed to the 10th.
If a matter of law is being considered with respect to a ruling
the decision or outcome should be judged from the 10th house
 

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
Can you explain? What is this chart? Thanks

Ms Elena,

Of course, it's a pleasure. This is planetary concept from earlier astrology practitioner.

QUOTE:
"The origin of the traditional system of zodiacal sign rulerships lies is the mythical horoscope for the birth of the world known as the Thema Mundi. The Thema Mundi was used as a teaching tool or a conceptual device in Hellenistic astrology, and in that system it provided the rationale for sign rulership, the exaltations, the nature of the aspects, and certain significations of the signs.

Although there are a few different variations of the lore surrounding the Thema Mundi, all versions have Cancer rising with the Moon in Cancer and the Sun in Leo, with the rest of the visible planets fanning out in zodiacal order based on their relative speed and distance from the Sun.

The Thema Mundi has Cancer rising partly due to an older Mesopotamian belief that the conjunction of all of the planets in the signs of Cancer and Capricorn indicated the periodic creation and destruction of the world. According to legends ascribed to the early 3rd century BCE Mesopotamian astrologer Berossus, when all of the planets are conjoined in Cancer was said to indicate the destruction of the world by a great flood, and when they all conjoin in the the sign Capricorn it was said to indicate the destruction of the world by fire.

Another reason for the Cancer ascendant is probably the fact that in Egypt, where Hellenistic astrology likely developed, the heliacal rising of the fixed star Sirius in the mid summer would indicate the annual flooding of the Nile river. Sirius was the 1st star in the Egyptian decanic calendar which was used to designate the beginning of the Egyptian year."

http://horoscopicastrologyblog.com/2007/06/11/the-thema-mundi/
 
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