local mean time
- Thread starter taiyou
- Start date
starlink
Well-known member
Hello Taiyou. LMT is essential and must always be used of course, but not on it's own, unless you live exactly on the same Longitude as Greenwich, like Madrid (if I am not mistaken).The computer then will calculate that time in reference to GMT (Greenwich Mean Time), either + a few hours when you live in the USA for instance or - a few hours when you live in Europe.
Hope this explains it.
Cheers, Starlink
Hope this explains it.
Cheers, Starlink
psyrens_aurora
Active member
i wanted to know if LMT was advisable, because I've heard that it is, but it changes everything so much! all of the houses are like 15 degrees different, and planets change position!
Alice Miller at http://www.lifeprintastrology.com/Pages/HTMLHOME.html uses LMT and I've noticed she's an extremely adept Astrologer... but it's hard to be convinced about LMT when I don't see others using it. (majority of Astrologers). That doesn't mean that it is a good system, I just don't trust it because it's so rarely used!
I have never heard about "only when it's the same Longitude as Greenwhich" thing ?? what?
Alice Miller at http://www.lifeprintastrology.com/Pages/HTMLHOME.html uses LMT and I've noticed she's an extremely adept Astrologer... but it's hard to be convinced about LMT when I don't see others using it. (majority of Astrologers). That doesn't mean that it is a good system, I just don't trust it because it's so rarely used!
I have never heard about "only when it's the same Longitude as Greenwhich" thing ?? what?
starlink
Well-known member
I am probably expressing myself a bit clumsy here.
Some places are located on the exact longitude as Greenwich and I think Barcelona is one of them. There is no time difference between Greenwich and Barcelona. When you live in Greenwich you do use LMT as it is, don't you? Or am I totally wrong now? Because Greenwhich is standard time.
Starlink
Okay, so as I do not live on the same longitude as Greenwich I should stick to the GMT + time zone system... too bad, I would have had Libra rising and all the light-heartedness that goes with it 
!
Well, to be honest the GMT feels more accurate as my birth chart with this system resembles me more than the LMT one.
! Well, to be honest the GMT feels more accurate as my birth chart with this system resembles me more than the LMT one.
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psyrens_aurora
Active member
Local Mean Time is something i studied a couple years ago. Alice Miller describes it really well, because she uses it in her chart interpretations. It has something to do with locating the exact time of anywhere based on the time the sun actually crosses it. I presume the time zone system isn't as accurate if covering a large area ... in one hour a lot can happen to the rising sign, however people who are nearly one hour apart but in the same time zone would get grouped together!
As for Greenwich, do you mean Universal Time? that makes sense. I was born at 11:44 "Universal Time", however i would subtract or add to get my time of birth for my time zone.
Look up LOCAL MEAN TIME. it is controversial and has been used by some astrologers. We just don't know if it's the one to use!
As for Greenwich, do you mean Universal Time? that makes sense. I was born at 11:44 "Universal Time", however i would subtract or add to get my time of birth for my time zone.
Look up LOCAL MEAN TIME. it is controversial and has been used by some astrologers. We just don't know if it's the one to use!
psyrens_aurora
Active member
Local Mean Time can be used anywhere, I think.
And I would have a Libra Ascendant, too! that's so weird! mine is 28 Virgo GMT + time zone, but with LMT it's a 19 degree Libra Asc!
astro.com says LMT is most likely a false chart, but they don't explain why... is it false because LMT is unreliable or is it because astro.com doesn't calculate LMT very well because they don't support it?
Taiyou, check out http://www.lifeprintastrology.com/Pages/AskAlice.html because you can ask her to check out your chart, and she does it using LMT!
i think you have to hold the mouse and keep pressing the clicker when typing your info in a spot. the page is messed up.
And I would have a Libra Ascendant, too! that's so weird! mine is 28 Virgo GMT + time zone, but with LMT it's a 19 degree Libra Asc!
astro.com says LMT is most likely a false chart, but they don't explain why... is it false because LMT is unreliable or is it because astro.com doesn't calculate LMT very well because they don't support it?
Taiyou, check out http://www.lifeprintastrology.com/Pages/AskAlice.html because you can ask her to check out your chart, and she does it using LMT!
i think you have to hold the mouse and keep pressing the clicker when typing your info in a spot. the page is messed up.
psyrens_aurora
Active member
and if you have trouble with that, which i see she changed her page since two years ago, just email her!
astrominister1@yahoo.com
ask her why she uses LMT and you can post her response here, if you like, so others can learn what you and i have learned about LMT!
Here is a great page about LMT:
http://berglund.ceze.com/english/webcourse/lesson_16.htm#lokal_medelsoltid
The Sun moves approximately sixty miles every four minutes. This average sixty miles forms one degree of longitude, hence the Sun travels one degree of longitude in four minutes of time, or 15 degrees to the hour. Suppose a certain city is sixty miles or so west of your birthplace, the Sun will not reach this other city for four minutes. In the past, each city or country place maintained its own time, but as people moved more frequently, they argued about the correctness of their watches so much, that Standard time was introduced. Before we can set up the angles of the horoscope, we first need true Local Mean Time. Therefore, when the birth time is given, it is given in Standard time, and it is necessary for us to convert it to Local Mean Time. This procedure is very simple and should cause you no trouble. Remember that this correction is simply to find the true local mean time. More computation is necessary before we can erect the chart but this is our beginning."
but Alice Miller actually puts up a good ARGUMENT for it (she is an Aries)
astrominister1@yahoo.com
ask her why she uses LMT and you can post her response here, if you like, so others can learn what you and i have learned about LMT!
Here is a great page about LMT:
http://berglund.ceze.com/english/webcourse/lesson_16.htm#lokal_medelsoltid
LOCAL MEAN TIME
"Before we can calculate a horoscope, we need to understand the various kinds of time. LOCAL MEAN TIME gives us exactly noon when the Sun is directly overhead, or rather, at its highest place in the heavens. Since the Sun apparently moves in relationship to the Earth, it stands to reason that the actual time of noon will vary as we happen to live in various places, for example, when it is 7:00 A.M. in Philadelphia, it is noon in London.The Sun moves approximately sixty miles every four minutes. This average sixty miles forms one degree of longitude, hence the Sun travels one degree of longitude in four minutes of time, or 15 degrees to the hour. Suppose a certain city is sixty miles or so west of your birthplace, the Sun will not reach this other city for four minutes. In the past, each city or country place maintained its own time, but as people moved more frequently, they argued about the correctness of their watches so much, that Standard time was introduced. Before we can set up the angles of the horoscope, we first need true Local Mean Time. Therefore, when the birth time is given, it is given in Standard time, and it is necessary for us to convert it to Local Mean Time. This procedure is very simple and should cause you no trouble. Remember that this correction is simply to find the true local mean time. More computation is necessary before we can erect the chart but this is our beginning."
but Alice Miller actually puts up a good ARGUMENT for it (she is an Aries)
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psyrens_aurora
Active member
yeah, once you know it you might have a tough time figuring out which one you'll use, too! to this day i (virgo) worry about the decision i made to stick with the more widely used one (such as given by astro.com database). however i love knowing about the LMT although I can't make a decision about LMT (libra mercury)
psyrens_aurora
Active member
you're welcome!
smilingsteph
Well-known member
Wow!
My rising is pisces,
I sort of identify with this, as I have always wondered why I am able to absorb others negativity! Like my psyche is a sponge!
The rest of my chart did not change much, my sun went to the third house, instead of the fourth, where I have always felt it belonged, vs the fourth....However if in equal houses it would be in the third anyhow....
This has really whopped me on the head! What to do, what to believe? I am confused!
I even had one thread on here wondering why my moon was in the seventh as I felt it to be more in the sixth....and sure enough LMT it is in the sixth...
Geez!
My rising is pisces,
I sort of identify with this, as I have always wondered why I am able to absorb others negativity! Like my psyche is a sponge!
The rest of my chart did not change much, my sun went to the third house, instead of the fourth, where I have always felt it belonged, vs the fourth....However if in equal houses it would be in the third anyhow....
This has really whopped me on the head! What to do, what to believe? I am confused!
I even had one thread on here wondering why my moon was in the seventh as I felt it to be more in the sixth....and sure enough LMT it is in the sixth...
Geez!
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starlink
Well-known member
Wow Spirens, that is beautiful those signs! I very much believe in the energy of numbers and certain words and have something like one of those, painted on a board, hanging in my kitchen. (copied it from my book: lexikon of Chinese Symbols).
SSteph, I learned that, when I get confused, I return to the tried and true, in other words, the normal way of calculating. It is after all not for nothing that most astrologers are using it. It is however interesting to see how things would change and if it still makes sense.
Starlink
SSteph, I learned that, when I get confused, I return to the tried and true, in other words, the normal way of calculating. It is after all not for nothing that most astrologers are using it. It is however interesting to see how things would change and if it still makes sense.
Starlink
smilingsteph
Well-known member
Thanks Star-
I was going through that LMT chart and really I identified with parts, but seeing as how I have been spending months on the natal chart I know best, which is the tried and true way, I think I identify with that one better.....
Thanks for the advice,
I needed someone to calm my virgo moon nerves!
Hugs
I was going through that LMT chart and really I identified with parts, but seeing as how I have been spending months on the natal chart I know best, which is the tried and true way, I think I identify with that one better.....
Thanks for the advice,
I needed someone to calm my virgo moon nerves!
Hugs
Hi, back from my trip abroad and I have Alice's answer to my question on the birth time: she uses sun-time therefore I'm indeed a Libra rising. but as she says, I have an interception Virgo-Pisces (I'm sure you know what interceptions are but just in case here's an explanation: http://www.planetwaves.net/cainer/archive/003540.php) therefore I don't really feel as a Libra rising. The other important change in my chart is that my Venus is now in the 9th house, which is completely true given that I have never felt attracted to or dated a non-foreigner
For the other planets and my Nodes no change, I'm still heavy in the 8th and 12th houses (why oh why!)
For the other planets and my Nodes no change, I'm still heavy in the 8th and 12th houses (why oh why!)
starlink
Well-known member
What does she mean by that then? When you are born lets say at 15.00 hours, what then is the Sun time and how do you figure this out? Do you know? I have not heard of this. I only have heard of a Solar Chart when you dont have a birthtime, putting Aries on the 1st house cusp.
Yes, I know what intercepted signs are, I am just a bit in the dark about this Sun time. Could you explain this or find a link for me where I can read about this please?
Thanks! Starlink
wilsontc
Staff member
local mean time, to star
star,
You asked:
This discussion was also held on another forum and I contacted Astrodienst directly in order to answer this question about using LMT.
Astrodienst and all the astrology programs automatically correct for LMT (sometimes called "Sun time"). So the calculated time of a chart is NOT the actual time we type in, but instead it is the actual time we type in ADJUSTED for LMT. We don't see the adjusted LMT, however, we only see the time we type into the program. The problem about putting in regular time as if it were LMT is that the regular time is NOT the same as LMT. So when the charting program uses the regular time we put in as if it were LMT, the chart is incorrect.
The major disconnect in explaining this to Alice and getting her to understand it seems to be that she thinks that astrology programs do NOT adjust for LMT, when, in fact, they ALL do.
Explaining in standard time,
Tim
star,
You asked:
This discussion was also held on another forum and I contacted Astrodienst directly in order to answer this question about using LMT.
Astrodienst and all the astrology programs automatically correct for LMT (sometimes called "Sun time"). So the calculated time of a chart is NOT the actual time we type in, but instead it is the actual time we type in ADJUSTED for LMT. We don't see the adjusted LMT, however, we only see the time we type into the program. The problem about putting in regular time as if it were LMT is that the regular time is NOT the same as LMT. So when the charting program uses the regular time we put in as if it were LMT, the chart is incorrect.
The major disconnect in explaining this to Alice and getting her to understand it seems to be that she thinks that astrology programs do NOT adjust for LMT, when, in fact, they ALL do.
Explaining in standard time,
Tim
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